After Nevil's pasing, Sam weighs in

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It wouldn't surprise me if he still makes big money off haze and other lines. I believe he owns the rights to the name original haze and others. I know tom hill had issues when he released his version as original haze early on ended up having to change the name. I know of a few other places that have been bullied into giving sam credit for their lines and changing the public pedigrees to what is actually being sold so only he get full historical credit.
 
Marcus_in_the_Darkus said:
Thanks for the Sun, Soul Seeds article; I regret not having read it in 1979. The primal Thai pic with the dreadlocks of pearly calyxes is so cool, as is the other sativa shown on that page.
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The article is quite advanced considering some of the dip shit breeders today. Which one of crew knew so much about breeding? Did Clarke or Watson learn that in college?
The herb photos sure look like Mel Frank’s work. I know he photographed haze. Sam mentions that Mel liked photographing the colorful haze plants. I thought it was in the US not in the NL. Mel can be reached on instagram, I bet he can shed some info on the haze origin. He knows about U of Missississippi and G-13 too.
Makes sense about BEL and Santa Cruz connection. The publishers of that blotter magazine seem to be well known and connected.
Someone said Sam is hoarding his seeds. People are growing his haze now on icm.
 
Interesting.
Personally I think we all read to much into this stuff.
To tell you the truth, I doubt there ever was a sacred seeds co.
The Haze...doubt there was even a Haze.
Just a name Watson made up most likely, there is no solid actual Haze line, just Polly Hybrid Sativas.
All the Hazes are different, as Nevil found with A and C...pitty he lost the B female.
The Haze brothers are just a name HT mag came up with...no doubt when Dave and Rob provid d bud and pics for Hightimes.
The Man who would be keen king of Cannabis article on Nevil mentions The Haze brothers visited Nevil in Holland and provided him Genetics...Nevil never met anyone called Haze brothers.
Fun fact...who visited Nevil at the Castle and supplied Haze and other genetics...Rob and Dave= Haze brothers.....pretty simple really.
Funny how every super strain/ clone has some B.S story that goes along with it.
Everything that comes from Dave and Hightimes can be debunked.
Just like people who have grown 100,s of landraces, have said to be extinct strains....yet not one photo or any kind of proof of this, just stories.
In the end I guess it doesn't really matter...but hey, it's interesting reading
Stay green..Sensient🙏💚✌️
 
sensient said:
Interesting.
Personally I think we all read to much into this stuff.
To tell you the truth, I doubt there ever was a sacred seeds co.
The Haze...doubt there was even a Haze.
Just a name Watson made up most likely, there is no solid actual Haze line, just Polly Hybrid Sativas.
All the Hazes are different, as Nevil found with A and C...pitty he lost the B female.
The Haze brothers are just a name HT mag came up with...no doubt when Dave and Rob provid d bud and pics for Hightimes.
The Man who would be keen king of Cannabis article on Nevil mentions The Haze brothers visited Nevil in Holland and provided him Genetics...Nevil never met anyone called Haze brothers.
Fun fact...who visited Nevil at the Castle and supplied Haze and other genetics...Rob and Dave= Haze brothers.....pretty simple really.
Funny how every super strain/ clone has some B.S story that goes along with it.
Everything that comes from Dave and Hightimes can be debunked.
Just like people who have grown 100,s of landraces, have said to be extinct strains....yet not one photo or any kind of proof of this, just stories.
In the end I guess it doesn't really matter...but hey, it's interesting reading
Stay green..Sensient🙏💚✌
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Jeezus, are you ok ?

I'm one of those guys that has grown 100s of landraces over the last 50 years and HAVE posted pics.
HERE.
Gotta love an unsubstantiated naysayer.
 
n2ishun said:
Jeezus, are you ok ?

I'm one of those guys that has grown 100s of landraces over the last 50 years and HAVE posted pics.
HERE.
Gotta love an unsubstantiated naysayer.
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Ahh...are you OK?
What are you talking about mate?!!
How in any way was that aimed at you?
Might want to smoke a few joints
Wow!
Might want to check the subject at hand before jumping to such conclusions.
 
You stated "just like people...".
That's pretty non directional and all inclusive, innit ?
Perhaps it's my fault that you stated it in such a manner ?
I didn't type for you so dont try and blame me for doing so.
 
CannaFish said:
Mel can be reached on instagram, I bet he can shed some info on the haze origin.
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A while ago I asked him on Instagram who selected Afghan #1; he responded that he did. I wanted to ask him what his selection criteria was but I didn't. I assume resin density was a big factor. I think Afghan #1 has a dull high and the world would be better if Mel had emphasized quality of effect more in his selection. I've read blogs on The Real Seed Company website where some of the Indica landraces can have an excellent, motivating effect, and where Afghan #1 is criticized for its drab, stony effect. But I can't fault Mel for a decision he made 40 years ago.

musashi said:
I for one would love to see pictures of "100's of landraces." That would be really cool.

🤙Mu
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Hear hear!
 
PlantManBee said:
Mel always suggests basing selection on effect in my recollection.
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Hey man, Ive got a fair bit of contact with Mel...he is very open to answering questions and seems truthful in what he says
He,s not an ego tripper and actually doesn't get the credit he deserves.
He has shared some pretty privileged info with me...let's just say that old Dave Watson is a little full.of shit...just a tad though hey🤣🤣🤣
Most of the stuff Skank-man takes credit for is actually Mel's work.
Regarding the A#1...most of what is sold as A1 nowdays are actually a mix of different Afghans.
He gave Sam a few different pure Affie lines...my phone's just about to die...will finish this when I get a bit of charge into it
 
sensient said:
Hey man, Ive got a fair bit of contact with Mel...he is very open to answering questions and seems truthful in what he says
He,s not an ego tripper and actually doesn't get the credit he deserves.
He has shared some pretty privileged info with me...let's just say that old Dave Watson is a little full.of shit...just a tad though hey🤣🤣🤣
Most of the stuff Skank-man takes credit for is actually Mel's work.
Regarding the A#1...most of what is sold as A1 nowdays are actually a mix of different Afghans.
He gave Sam a few different pure Affie lines...my phone's just about to die...will finish this when I get a bit of charge into it
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Mel Frank is really my hero. He has been since I got my first copy of the grow guide he coauthored with Ed Rosenthal.
 
Back to the story
The original line offered as A1 was a pure affie...while a powerful line it tasted like shit, had a horrible heavy grassy taste with a weird chemical like undertone.
I believe the line was more aimed at hash production and a breeding line.
Im pretty sure Nevil worked it or created a new A1 himself.
The Sensi seeds offering in the mid 90,s was a totally different line.
It was definitely hybrid and was actually a very nice affie type
Mel's own working of the A1 follows a different path...It has a pleasant hashy aroma, different from the typical affie acrid type, some fruity and skunky undertones, it has a sweet hashy flavour with deep fruity like tones coming through, Thinking of it, it actually reminds me of the old Northern lights/big bud types.
His working of the line wasn't really in circulation until he started selling seed in recent times.
Mel worked and supplied many lines that others take credit for
When talking about the mythical Sacred seeds Mel would be the guy.
I have alot of respect for Mel, he is truly in it for the plant, over all these years he has just quietly gone about his thing, working his lines.
Never got into selling seed, Todd Mc got seed out of him and is selling them as well as reproducing them, but it's not really Mel's thing...He,s more into his photography thing.
If you know the amount of lines he collected, worked and supplied you start to see how Important his work is to Cannabis culture
Definitely up there with Nevil and Scott.
I doubt the thing with Todd will last long...Todd taking the piss charging $20 per seed!!!😤😠
Point is, whatever the history of Mel , he played an integral part in the genetics scene.
Sam rode on his coattails, and basically took advantage of him.
Anyway...thanks Mel🙏✌️
 
PlantManBee said:
Mel always suggests basing selection on effect in my recollection.
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Somewhere Mel writes about how he would have his friends test weed and then save the seeds.
why do people say sacred seeds was made up? Haven’t yall seen the sacred seeds packs? Madjag said he contacted them and Rob personally came to deliver his order in AZ.
 
Big Sur said:
Wow, a fame war over Dave, Nevil and Todd and I missed out? Maybe just as well or I would be in Band Camp with them.

One point I will make that was raised in this debate: I say that Google is useless as a source of information on the underground weed scene from 1960 to 1999. That is 95% bullshit. As is most of the stuff on Wikipedia. It was all black market and subject to personal experience and is highly subjective. I have read so much trash about what happened in Berkeley, Big Sur, The Haight, Monterey and Santa Cruz it is pathetic. My view and memory living there in those times is quite different. Of course my view is also limited to my own experience. But... what I saw and experience was in line with what a few like Kamstra, Wolfe and Beisler wrote in their books. Even they have a lot of embellishments. Also much of what I experienced people simply do not believe. They were very different times and a lot of crazy and wild things happened. 90% of which was undocumented. Like today, newspapers had their yellow journalism to sell, and like today, things were very divided politically over the War in Vietnam and with Civil Rights. So much of what was printed in the SF Chronicle was rather jaded then, as it is still today. So is what is written in a lot of books about the 60s. Its mostly opinion, and not fact.

In the end regarding the Nevil seed drop by Todd, I was happy to see that MrNice released a Nevil Haze tribute strain at less than 1/3 of what Todd was selling his beans for. And with 10x the integrity. As for who bred original Haze? Or what is in it? Or who sold what to whom and who gifted what to whom and who bread what with what... anyone's guess. Many opinions prevail. It has become a cult following. It has been many generations from 1969 to today and even two more generations of humans. I have gone back to growing and breeding the original strains from my collection that Haze is said to be from. Colombian Gold, Colombian Punto Rojo, Colombian Punta Roja and the like. I have those original bag weed landrace strain seeds that I froze from the 1970s. Believe it or not. It does not really matter to me. I am leaning toward Haze being mainly Colombian Gold landrace circa 1977. That was very common weed in NorCal in that time. My brother moved many pounds of it out of San Miguel Canyon in Prunedale, which just happens to be just south of Corrolitos. It has a good clear high to it. Like soft snow settling on your brain. Its a tough strain to grow though. Very late maturing and highly variable phenotypes.

Anyway, my latent 2 cents worth. May you live in interesting times and live long enough to tell about it. People will argue with you about what you tell though.
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Bump year later
Ever seen something of the variety Dolores, which was i believe a Mexican variety with nice purple tones.
 
Namaskar said:
Bump year later
Ever seen something of the variety Dolores, which was i believe a Mexican variety with nice purple tones.
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None of the seeded or sinsemilla landrace Mexican lids or pounds that I saw was ever given names back in the day. It was all sold and labeled by the location where it came from. Oaxacan, Michoacan, Morelos, Guerrero, or the name and a color like Acapulco Gold or Zacatecas Purple. Later names like Mexican red hair and Oaxacan highland were added, but that was as far as I saw. More recently I obtained seeds from a Mexican strain called Verde Limo'n that I had been looking for for some time. I do not know what region in Mexico that it came from though. I also have a newer strain that I got last year called Purple Morado Mexicano (Mexican Purple). No region assigned to it. I presume it is a modern hybrid and not a landrace, but we shall see.
 
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