Search for Punto Rojo

Monkeymang333

New member
Another awesome type up....
That made my day.

Thats maybe the 2nd time ive heard of Durban and incense it seems.. Looking at the "terpinolene" terpene, and its link to the incensey hazes and south americans... Ive seen Durban analysis online as some of the highest terpinolene strains. Sometimes 2-3% terpinolene.... So hearing you say that peaks my interest in Durban again for sure..... Do you think CBG is a good enough source??? My last grows I had a Early Durban from Seedsman I was keeping, but had a big trauma happen a few months ago where I lost everything.. Moms, Dads... Still have my seeds but.... I really loved that Early Durban pheno. Not incensey but a nice clean lemon. Not pinesol cleaner type lemon, but gentle sweet lemonaide like... I'd love to get some more Early Durban, Durban Poison, and True Durban Landrace.
 

Big Sur

Well-known member
I do not trust many seed sellers these days. I got my landrace Durban from Europe, but it was a wild strain and had odd blooming habits. But the smell... ah, it was great. And the high... that was even better. The best thing about Durban is the THCv. The terpinolene is interesting though. It is used as a fragrance in a lot of products. I love the smell of fresh cut Durban. I crossed a landrace Durban male with a local cut of the Dutch Durban skunk hybrid (said to be 10% skunk). I think Watson was the breeder of that strain. Mel Frank said that he sent Watson his "B strain" of Durban Poison that he worked here in the states. Watson is said to have bred it with his line of de-skunked skunk, and the resulting Durban was also de-Durbanized Durban. It has good THCv, but lacks the sandalwood and anise terps. So I bred them and whallah! I got a stable blooming Durban with the landrace Durban terpenes. I tested them last year and they all grew the same. They are on the later side of finishing in mid October here near the 45th parallel. No limonene or pinene in the Durban I have grown. Those are prevalent in landrace Mexican and Colombian strains. Back in the day people thought that the locally grown Cannabis plants from Mexican and Colombian bag weed seed were picking up the pine smell from the Monterey pine trees growing near the plants. But that was not the case. It was just a common terpene in the weed strains that were the most commonly grown in that area until the indica hybrids hit the grow scene later in the 1980s. And as I said before, brickweed was void of original terps from being sun baked and bricked green and/or fermented. Until you grow them from seed and cure them properly... then the terps come out to play.
 
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Monkeymang333

New member
Now that Durban work sounds like a success.....Wow
I was trying to gather up alll the durban I could from multiple sources, and the one I felt had the most magic (thcv) I would try to s1 and find an amplified version of that girl. Then try to find a more pure true NLD version with similar profiles to breed out the skunk. In the process attempting to find high terpene version, high thcv version, true landrace version etc... trying my hand at blending, and observing.

What do you think about thcv, and its type of effect? Sam seems to say it doesn't have any affect at all, but maybe thats wordplay...Seems he always tries to speak of thcv alone it does nothing, but downplaying how it works with thc... but pretty sure he said it blocks thc too...Similar to cbd, but in my experience cbd only negates the negative affects of thc, and if anything slows it for a more stable absorption... With thcv though.. I envision it being what makes herb have depth, and immersion. Where you can space out, and forget that youve stared at a wall for 15 minutes in a bliss with your thoughts lol.. Enhanced music, visuals, etc...

Wish i could try your durban lol...

Would really love to hear your summary of the different areas, and their effects overall+terpene profiles (You already did a bit with the Mexican\Columbian).... Like say..... What are the raciest paranoia prone types, the friendly day brightening types, the more psychedelic types, and etc etc... Your writing style is captivating ...
I'm at the point where I wanna sift through a bunch of Nevil's Haze, Mango Haze to find a good incensey Columbian worked piece, but when I am settled with that I want to go back to landraces, and dive into my own projects\observations\selections.... I have some Vietblack, Orient Express, KochangThai x THHaze I could do a decent Asianish sift with.... The Columbianish stuff all I have is Haze x KaliChina, Mangobiche, and Panama f2s.... Gotta try to get more central\south americans, and true landrace stuff instead of just crosses.. Happy I have Mangobiche,Kerala,Kuamoni Nepali though for sure..... I'm hoping I can get RedSnake from CBG now that I see its back... Oaxacan x Punto Rojo... I could blab on and on I apologize... I wanna hear you talk more, just trying to think of topics to feed you, but im wore out from work...
 
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Big Sur

Well-known member
Back to Punto Rojo, here is a male in early bloom.

Photo removed, being used by unscrupulous seed peddlers.
 
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Big Sur

Well-known member
Now that Durban work sounds like a success.....Wow
I was trying to gather up alll the durban I could from multiple sources, and the one I felt had the most magic (thcv) I would try to s1 and find an amplified version of that girl. Then try to find a more pure true NLD version with similar profiles to breed out the skunk. In the process attempting to find high terpene version, high thcv version, true landrace version etc... trying my hand at blending, and observing.
Self (S1) are a bad idea in my book. Reason being that you get half the genetics in half the genes across the board as they are doubled up randomly in pairs. You will also only get females that way. Not exactly breeding material. I never breed S1 intentionally, and I never breed with herms. I have about 6 Durbans sourced from different places as well as 2 Durban hybrids and the back cross that I did. I also have Lesotho, Pondo, Transkei, KwaZulu and Swazi genetics all from ZA. I want to create a Rooibaard (red beard) strain with them. Or try to.

Yes, you could get a double THCv gene if that is doubled up in your S1 trial, but that would take a lot of secondary trials with the offspring and it would be hit and miss. Also any doubled gene will not be reproducible when bred IBL or back crossed. It would be a one off. Easier to breed hybrids with high THCv strains, like Vietnam Black, Congo Black, or other South African strains. Which I am doing now. At least with VietNam Black this year. VN Black blooms really really late though. Breeding out de-skunked skunk is not easy either. That is a dominant gene. You have to do some tricks to get the terpes back into anything with de-skunked skunk in it. That strain seems to erase terps, by intent (designed to get the skunk smell out of skunkweed).

I have been looking more for the original Mel Frank Durban cuts floating around the west coast. I found one that I bred with an Afghani. It came out similar to Cherry Pie. I also bred the landrace male Durban with Grape Ape on a whim, and that came out really good. High THCv and a good mellow high to it from the Grape Ape. I also have used some other local Durban cuts. Mel used a Durban strain from ZA that he got from Holland and bred an A and B line. He said that the A line was better, but sent the B line to Watson in Holland by mistake. So the B line is the one used in all the so called Durban that was bred with Skunk from the Dutch seed houses. All of those have the skunk in it that I have seen. The A line is here and pops up now and then. I am trying to get a cut of it from a local grower. The landrace Durbans from ZA are varied, and some are hay.
 

Big Sur

Well-known member
What do you think about thcv, and its type of effect? Sam seems to say it doesn't have any affect at all, but maybe thats wordplay...Seems he always tries to speak of thcv alone it does nothing, but downplaying how it works with thc... but pretty sure he said it blocks thc too...Similar to cbd, but in my experience cbd only negates the negative affects of thc, and if anything slows it for a more stable absorption... With thcv though.. I envision it being what makes herb have depth, and immersion. Where you can space out, and forget that youve stared at a wall for 15 minutes in a bliss with your thoughts lol.. Enhanced music, visuals, etc...
THCv is the cannabinoid that I have been the most interested. Though I an starting to look more at CBC now. THCv is like amphetamine without the jag or jitters. THCv blocks THC for about a half hour, and then lets the THC roll over you. So I usually want to smoke more Durban right away, but now I wait for a half hour before I do, lest I get too stoned. Yes, THCv alone does not do much, other than give you a lift. But it most certainly affects and enhances highs. I love THCv, and that is why I have been working with Durban for the past few years.

I have also worked with a few CBD strains, particularly Bekaa Valley Lebanese Red. Lebby s highly variable though from plant to plant. If you get a good plant with the right mix, it is a perfect high. CBD alone does not get you stoned, but it, like THCv is still a psychotropic drug. CBD alone mellows my moods. As you say, it also curbs the pure effects of THC. THC alone gives me the willies. I have some Sour Tsunami that is 15% CBD and 0.4% THC. Barely considered weed here. I smoke that with other high THC strains to curb the stone. But I smoke mostly Lebanese and Durban. And Maui now and then. Maui Waui Cherry Bomb is high in CBC. I am doing some hybrids with that now as well.
 

Big Sur

Well-known member
Would really love to hear your summary of the different areas, and their effects overall+terpene profiles (You already did a bit with the Mexican\Columbian).... Like say..... What are the raciest paranoia prone types, the friendly day brightening types, the more psychedelic types, and etc etc... Your writing style is captivating ...
I'm at the point where I wanna sift through a bunch of Nevil's Haze, Mango Haze to find a good incensey Columbian worked piece, but when I am settled with that I want to go back to landraces, and dive into my own projects\observations\selections.... I have some Vietblack, Orient Express, KochangThai x THHaze I could do a decent Asianish sift with.... The Columbianish stuff all I have is Haze x KaliChina, Mangobiche, and Panama f2s.... Gotta try to get more central\south americans, and true landrace stuff instead of just crosses.. Happy I have Mangobiche,Kerala,Kuamoni Nepali though for sure..... I'm hoping I can get RedSnake from CBG now that I see its back... Oaxacan x Punto Rojo... I could blab on and on I apologize... I wanna hear you talk more, just trying to think of topics to feed you, but im wore out from work...
You want me to write a book here? I get a lot of crap online on these forums for writing long replies. Or for what I say about Watson, or the weed scene back in the day. I have been booted off of some forums for saying these things. Some have posted this forum that I have "damaged" the industry for what I have posted. How that is, I do not know. Most do not believe that I have the genetics that I have. Or that I lived in central coastal California from 66 to 86, and again from 94 to 04. *shrug*

IMO so called "original Haze" was just a Colombian strain that Watson happened upon. Whatever the history or origin... it has been worked, worked and then re-worked. Like OG Kush. I grow pure landraces for the most part from my own collection from bag weed seed that I froze starting in 1977. People do not believe that seeds can be frozen. They can. Look at my Colombian photos here. Those are real. I read the book, _Marijuana Potency_ by Starks back in 1977 (now revised and called Marijuana Chemistry). He sites several studies done by the Japanese freezing Cannabis seeds, and lo, they are correct, accurate and fact. But so many texts and rags out there written by the "experts" say otherwise... that Cannabis seeds cannot be frozen. They are simply wrong. But the paradigm is pervasive.

IMO you cannot derive a Colombian landrace from Haze or any other modern hybrid. Most strains out there are now tainted with indica. Kerala (South India) , Mexican, and Colombian strains in particular. You have to use landraces to beget landraces. I predominately breed landraces IBL. Or in the case of Durban, back cross to improve the strain. My original collection has grown as I trade with others like myself around the world. Meanwhile most seed companies only sell fems, or autos, or auto fems. Few sell sativas, and fewer landraces. Many landraces have been 'worked' by the likes of CBG and tropical. Not my thing. I grew a bunch of modern strains several years ago to see what all the hype was about. I grew Blue Dream, OG Kush Ghost, Granddaddy Purple, and White Widow. Of the lot, BD and OG Kush sucked. They are mutts. Gret if you want to get stoned out of your gord. GDP is good, but it puts me to sleep. WW is good, it was an old original cut from a medical grower here. There are other strains called WW now that GHS has released, that are not anything like original WW though. Black Widow is the replacement bred by Shanti here on Mr Nice from the same parents as WW. Good day weed. First generation hybrids can be good. Past that? It gets too muddies IMO. And the genes are lost along the way that lade landraces what they were.
 

Big Sur

Well-known member
Apparently someone online is using my posted info to sell Colombian beans that they claim came from 'someone that froze the seeds in 1978 after reading the book Marijuana Potency.' Which would be me. Be advised, I have not sold or traded out ANY of my Colombian seeds to anyone... anywhere... ever.
 
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Monkeymang333

New member
Googled and couldnt find, how long ago did you start posting that? Hope you dont think it was me lol. Wish i had some from the 70s tho. Definitely heard many people say they use fridge and freezer but that is little fishy.. Foil hat on lol
 
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Marcus_in_the_Darkus

Well-known member
Here's the PR5 clone in mid August. She was slow to root and got a late start. Looking to hit her with some pollen from The Doors as well as Angel's Breathe, as well as some PR. Putting some 1970s PR genetics into the mix could really spruce up this line!

Hello MNS friends of the haze archetype. I've been slowly working on making some punto rojo seeds in the ~6 months since my last update to this thread.
The little clone of my punto rojo #5 keeper grew into a good sized plant, limited only by the small pot size. I moved her indoors in early October just before our first frost and put her under supplemental light while I awaited punto rojo pollen from two generous donors. When she got over 5 feet tall I had to bend her over to keep her under the light. Here she is in late October 2019, mid November 2019, and Christmas day 2019:








I finally gave her the chop in mid January 2020. She developed a powdery mildew problem that became quite severe, and appears to have impacted her ability to produce seeds, as I only got about 40-50 seeds after a couple thorough attempts to pollinate her with '78 punto rojo pollen. The '78 punto rojo seeds I did get from this plant were very dark, almost black, suggesting it was the first pollination attempt in October that took; the seeds were so dark because they had been ripening on the plant for 3 months! I suspect some of that pollen batch may have been compromised by moisture or heat, but there was enough viable '78 punto rojo pollen to make seeds on punto rojo, Angel's Breathe F2 and The Doors females I had available. I also got some pollen from a CBG punto rojo male that has passed a battery of sexual stability tests. Here's a picture of that dude:



So, here's where my search for punto rojo resumes:



I'm going to germinate some of these punto rojo seeds in another week or two after the seeds have had a chance to dry out a little better, and flower them this summer. Here's hoping I can get some killer smoke and find a killer male.
 

Marcus_in_the_Darkus

Well-known member
If I were you I'd be having some hard decisions on what to grow out next. The TLT PR x PR '78 piques my curiosity the most. That 78 pollen has a Jurassic Park vibe going.
Greetings Fish (and WWWW)!

It was a pretty easy decision...I popped 10 of the TLT PR x '78PR seeds a week ago. They took their sweet-ass time germinating; for a while it looked like I might have made some sterile seeds. As of this morning, 7 are up and 2 more are on the way for a 90% germination rate. I think my (relatively) cold basement must be slowing them down. Here they are, in all their skinny-first-leaved glory. I plan to veg them for a couple months, take cuts in April, flower them in May, harvest in September and enjoy a nicely cured pure sativa smoke in about a year! I usually am not crazy about running the flowering tent in the heat of late summer but these Colombians really respond well to warm temperatures, which should bring out the best expressions I can muster in my indoor grow environment. These long-legged Colombians require some serious advanced planning. I'm really excited to run these and see what I get. I've flowered out the mother two times now and have a good feel for how that plant behaves, so it'll be interesting to see what the nearly extinct 1978 genetics bring to the table. Wish me luck!

 

Kangalunacy2

New member
Greetings Fish (and WWWW)!

It was a pretty easy decision...I popped 10 of the TLT PR x '78PR seeds a week ago. They took their sweet-ass time germinating; for a while it looked like I might have made some sterile seeds. As of this morning, 7 are up and 2 more are on the way for a 90% germination rate. I think my (relatively) cold basement must be slowing them down. Here they are, in all their skinny-first-leaved glory. I plan to veg them for a couple months, take cuts in April, flower them in May, harvest in September and enjoy a nicely cured pure sativa smoke in about a year! I usually am not crazy about running the flowering tent in the heat of late summer but these Colombians really respond well to warm temperatures, which should bring out the best expressions I can muster in my indoor grow environment. These long-legged Colombians require some serious advanced planning. I'm really excited to run these and see what I get. I've flowered out the mother two times now and have a good feel for how that plant behaves, so it'll be interesting to see what the nearly extinct 1978 genetics bring to the table. Wish me luck!

good luck with these
 

Marcus_in_the_Darkus

Well-known member
21 days from seed

Thanks for the good wishes, PMB and kangalunacy.

The uniqueness of these long-legged sativas really hit me last week when I was in Denver and visited a few dispensaries. I never thought legalization would ruin weed but I'm not impressed with what I saw and sampled. All the commercial weed comes in these tiny machine-trimmed buds. Mostly it seems to have been bred for "dankness." Now I like a good stinky bud as much as the next guy, but these smells seep through plastic containers! And I'm pretty sure it all comes from the Afghani side of these poly-squared hybrids. Effects are short lived and sleepy. That's OK, a lot of people enjoy dispensary weed, and I'm sure there are some gems in the mix.

The ignorance out there is pervasive; very few of the younger crowd have ever seen or smoked a pure sativa. To test this theory, I asked a budtender at each dispensary if a pure sativa was available. The hot, detached, aloof budtender chick at the first place said, "That's impossible." It would seem that I have several jars filled with impossibility in my closet. The baked 20something dude at the next dispensary said "Maybe you could've found a pure sativa 30 years ago." Perhaps my closet is a time machine? The older guy at the next place knew a little about sativas, and recommended headband or blue dream, then started showing me distillates and telling me how awesome they are. I've met a lot of dealers in my life, but this guy was the first pusher I've ever run across. That term carried a lot of weight in the 1960s and 70s.

OK, back to the plants. They are all doing well at about 3 weeks from first soak of the seeds. All 10 seeds eventually came up and I numbered them in the order that they showed roots. They are arranged from top-bottom and left-right in the photo. I have them vegging under LED shoplights in a flood/ebb setup with Jack's 321 diluted down to about 500 ppm. Most are on their third node. The cabinet they are in is fairly cold this time of year, probably around 60-65 F. The colder temps may affect leaf morphology. Despite the cooler temps, these plants still have pretty narrow leaves at this stage. They will get very crowded in this 2' x 2' tray by the time I take cuts in about 6 weeks.

Edited to add that I've recently been smoking some of the 15-month-cured punto rojo x mangobiche - the second-tier plants from that grow, and the weed is excellent. Really great flavor and effect, scrawny, airy buds and lots of seeds! If we could get these old sativas into the dispensaries we could truly make America great again. :)

 
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musashi

Site Moderator
Staff member
Aloha brah!

Excellent post! I agree that legalization has brought a certain complacent conformity to todays dispensary offerings. Commercially, seems like greed and short term profit has replaced the growing of 12+ week sativas which require more time, skill and resources. Too bad. Fortunately for the more discerning, we have options through MNS as well as other companies that offer sativa seeds. We've come a long way from the days of buying "lids".

Looking forward to how these turn out. Best of luck.


Shaka
Mu
 

musashi

Site Moderator
Staff member
Hey brah!
Haven’t finished my rant yet. Last time I was in a dispensary, the young “budkeeper” pushed the SSH he had as being the best in town. I bought an eighth on looks and was very disappointed. Even the standard blue dream was subpar. I have yet to find anything resembling sativa in these shops and certainly nothing can touch home grown in potency. Not even close. All about shiny. No bias here lol /r

Shaka
Mu
 

Marcus_in_the_Darkus

Well-known member
Hey brah!
Last time I was in a dispensary, the young “budkeeper” pushed the SSH he had as being the best in town. I bought an eighth on looks and was very disappointed. Even the standard blue dream was subpar. I have yet to find anything resembling sativa in these shops and certainly nothing can touch home grown in potency. Not even close. All about shiny.
A most righteous rant, brother Musashi. I honestly haven't even opened the eighth I brought home from Denver...would much rather smoke a 15-month-cured Colombian or The Doors. :D


The new babies are looking uniform so far. Gotta be true F1 sativas. Looking familar to me too... like pr x mb seedlings.

Haha yeah your closet IS a time machine! Pollen from 40 year old seeds... PrimalHaze.

It feels good to see you are still enjoying the Punto Biche
Hey Fish! Seriously, this puntobiche has gotten so much better after a long cure, the aromas in the jar are straight outta the 1970s and the effect is extraordinarily clear-headed and soaring yet dreamy. Easy to get stuff done, definitely caffeinated weed, but I don't find it racey. The lady friend loves it too, God bless her, and has told me PRM#3 is the best one yet. I've turned her into a sativa snob! I only have a couple jars left and they are now highly coveted.

Quick update on the plants, they are all doing well and looking healthy. Very light feeding (around 400 ppm) and cold temps (60s), so they're taking their time. After about a month from seed they are mostly on their 5th node and looking fairly landracey, uniform, skinny leaves, similar structures. #3, 6 and 8 seem to have the best shot at being a wire-leaf pheno.






They'll be ready for cuts in a few weeks. Maybe I'll be able to report on veg aromas at that point.
 

Big Sur

Well-known member
Hey brah!
Haven’t finished my rant yet. Last time I was in a dispensary, the young “budkeeper” pushed the SSH he had as being the best in town. I bought an eighth on looks and was very disappointed. Even the standard blue dream was subpar. I have yet to find anything resembling sativa in these shops and certainly nothing can touch home grown in potency. Not even close. All about shiny. No bias here lol /r

Shaka
Mu
Its the same here. I have an eighth of SSH that I bought last summer and it is still there in a plastic 'can' mostly unsmoked. Now the Colombian Gold and VietNam black that I grew last year, they are a different animal. Colombian Gold is my new second favorite smoke, after the Lebanese. Last year's Lebby is the best so far. Long cool cure is finally finished. It is smoking great now.

I have yet to find any good Blue Dream. Said to be the best selling in OR and CA, but it is blazae. I grew BD a few years ago here and that was also blazae. But it grew like a sativa at least. Dunno what people see in this so called sativa. Budtenders here are all clueless. Most are pretty booby blondes who have no idea what they are selling. Look at my tits and buy anything that I recommend. I ask for Durban Poison, and I get some OG kush variant. No honey, I want a high THCv SATIVA. Blank stare... "how about some Vanilla Smoothie Gorilla Kush?" holding glass jar of buds between her tits. Sigh... I did get some great Kona Gold here a few months ago though. That is disappearing rather fast. I have to get these Kona Gold seeds planted. Top of my list to grow this year.
 
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