Grail: The Ultimate Haze Hybrid

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L33t said:
A question regarding the Grail, is there a particular reason you want to use '97NH and not freshly made NH seed ? Shanti said the NH parents never changed since NH was first made. So is there any specific reason other than the fact that the '97 seed stock was made by you and also since really old needs to get popped before its too old and unusable.
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At the very least, it does make for some good symmetry :) The Haze beans were popped in the mid 80s after a 15ish year wait inside a plastic baggie...

ESS
 
Haze Quality in Breeding Haze ?

Hello! Nevil...:) I keep thinking about this Grail you would like to create? My personal opinion is that your current masterpiece NH is all one would ever need for a Sativa. I would think the 25% indica in your NH is necessary to keep one from bouncing off the walls. You mentioned the Cat Piss smell and how it was not a good trate of proper haze? I thought that maybe your haze has a more thai background? more than south american pissy smell sativa. If this is the case then all you really have as a choice for a breeding plant, would be a Highland Thai variety and not a Low land Thai do to the lathargic sleep patterns it produces when smoking it. Maybe a Mix of the two? Tom Hill Sativa has South american pissy smells from what I hear. Are you mainly looking for Asian Thais for your ultimate Grail Sativa? Sweat Vanilla type citrus smell? By the way, Mango Widow is an Awesome Smoke, and I am flying at this very moment on it, Excellent ,Excellent. Great Job both of you. resinbud;)
 
"However I think it would piss me off if someone made poor selections and misrepresented my seeds. There was a thread about a user making f2's of unreleased varieties Shanti sent him, if he was able to get the f2's out before the release date and they turned out shottie it wouldn't be good for Shanti's/your good name."

If you buy seeds from some one else, how can that be a reflection on me? One generation can screw everything up, or change the future forever in a positive way.
When you buy stock from a breeder, you are buying the end result of that persons knowledge, experience and taste. That's what you pay the money for, not the name of a variety.
Any grower usually invests serious amounts of time and money in his project and the genetics he chooses are the corner stone of the project. You can do really well for yourself with top genetics and a low budget. the reverse isn't true.
N.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by L33t View Post
A question regarding the Grail, is there a particular reason you want to use '97NH and not freshly made NH seed ? Shanti said the NH parents never changed since NH was first made. So is there any specific reason other than the fact that the '97 seed stock was made by you and also since really old needs to get popped before its too old and unusable.
At the very least, it does make for some good symmetry The Haze beans were popped in the mid 80s after a 15ish year wait inside a plastic baggie...

ESS

I worry about things like genetic drift in cuttings. I have seen a lot of cuttings fade to pale shadows of their former selves over time. I don't have evidence that this effects the progeny, but if I can avoid the risk, I will. I know that '97 batch well, no problem there, I made them myself.
Sometimes, mistakes are forever.
N.
 
resinbud said:
Hello! Nevil...:) I keep thinking about this Grail you would like to create? My personal opinion is that your current masterpiece NH is all one would ever need for a Sativa. I would think the 25% indica in your NH is necessary to keep one from bouncing off the walls. You mentioned the Cat Piss smell and how it was not a good trate of proper haze? I thought that maybe your haze has a more thai background? more than south american pissy smell sativa. If this is the case then all you really have as a choice for a breeding plant, would be a Highland Thai variety and not a Low land Thai do to the lathargic sleep patterns it produces when smoking it. Maybe a Mix of the two? Tom Hill Sativa has South american pissy smells from what I hear. Are you mainly looking for Asian Thais for your ultimate Grail Sativa? Sweat Vanilla type citrus smell? By the way, Mango Widow is an Awesome Smoke, and I am flying at this very moment on it, Excellent ,Excellent. Great Job both of you. resinbud;)
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from what i understand the catpiss trait comes from the haze C male which is thai leaning and the trait is reportedly thought to be found in thai varieties,the incense trait is a S.american or you might say lumbo trait

tom hill haze ive never heard reported to be S.A. nor pissy ,its been reported by him and others as a thai expression

im very curious as to nev's opinion on both of these traits in pure haze

Are you mainly looking for Asian Thais for your ultimate Grail Sativa? Sweat Vanilla type citrus smell?
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im very curious as too which thai variety nev has considered myself

but the aromas and taste he mentioned if i recall were completely oppsite ,if i recall he said liver n dark leather ,my style


You mentioned the Cat Piss smell and how it was not a good trate of proper haze?
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i was very curious about this myself good question

as the incense trait and catpiss trait is a common trait in both mns haze hybrids and SAMS haze hybrids


neville

im curious as to your thoughts on reeferman's haze bro haze
description

ive just noticed reef was kicked off the farm along wit him went his post and my thread ,the post were interesting but nothing from the lost ark,he went on too say the ohaze is unpractical to grow wit offering such as your SSH although i argued my point

but what i found interesting was
Reeferman Seeds Original Haze is is the original haze from the Haze Brothers, from which all haze hybrids derive. It has a strong cat piss smell and is a super long flowering sativa,he noted catpiss/sandlewood and he sourced it i believe from s.holland
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the 2 traits ive always associated with the best haze selections ive com across catpiss and incense



1luvbigherb
 
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CAT PISS

The cat piss smell associated with Haze is the result of inbreeding to the Haze. Inbreeding to siblings or half siblings, is less damaging than inbreeding to the same Haze plant.
NL5 was somewhat neutral in smell and when crossed with the Haze, it expressed the various genotypes behind the Haze very well. I have grown large numbers of NL5HzA and NL5HzC plants from seed. Considering that the HzA male was dead, I could only use it's daughters to put back to HzC.

This single inbreeding to the 1969 haze males exponentially increased the amount of cat piss types in the progeny, but still allowed a useful percentage of truly superior plants to shine through.
The average age of the NH grand parents is about 40. I don't believe that this can be said about anybody else's lines. They are more inbred, hence the cat piss.
I have a dream that a real Haze brother will contact me and tell me that he still has well preserved seeds from the 60's. Failing that, the '97 NH seeds offer the best hope for future hybrids.
N.
 
Nevil said:
I have a dream that a real Haze brother will contact me and tell me that he still has well preserved seeds from the 60's. Failing that, the '97 NH seeds offer the best hope for future hybrids.
N.
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There's a guy on ICMAG named Classic Seeds who sells seeds thru Seedbay as "CLS seeds", who claims to have collected all the early Californian imports from Mexico, Colombia, Thailand & Afghanistan, as well as all the important hybrids from that era. http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=154734
 
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interesting bushweed but I did not manage to get to see any photos from plants from these old lines that CLS sells.No pics no reports nothing ? do you have any links maybe from any grows from buyers that purchased his gear ?
 
Nevil said:
The cat piss smell associated with Haze is the result of inbreeding to the Haze. Inbreeding to siblings or half siblings, is less damaging than inbreeding to the same Haze plant.
NL5 was somewhat neutral in smell and when crossed with the Haze, it expressed the various genotypes behind the Haze very well. I have grown large numbers of NL5HzA and NL5HzC plants from seed. Considering that the HzA male was dead, I could only use it's daughters to put back to HzC.

This single inbreeding to the 1969 haze males exponentially increased the amount of cat piss types in the progeny, but still allowed a useful percentage of truly superior plants to shine through.
The average age of the NH grand parents is about 40. I don't believe that this can be said about anybody else's lines. They are more inbred, hence the cat piss.
I have a dream that a real Haze brother will contact me and tell me that he still has well preserved seeds from the 60's. Failing that, the '97 NH seeds offer the best hope for future hybrids.
N.
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i truly appreciate this response

from my research one of the four varieites of the original haze known to have the catpiss trait ,this was also the variety that was known to carry the incense trait


im curious as too your thoughts on the incense/frankincense trait aswell ,id love for you to stop by my (Frankincense trait in haze )thread


NL5 was somewhat neutral in smell and when crossed with the Haze, it expressed the various genotypes behind the Haze very well
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this why id do anything for a pack of the old seed bank NL5HAZE and why my next purchase will be the current offering

IME ive noticed the catpiss in one of my sk/hz phenos

im glad the HAZEA daughters are alive and well ,im excited too see wat your next masterpiece may be


This single inbreeding to the 1969 haze males exponentially increased the amount of cat piss types in the progeny, but still allowed a useful percentage of truly superior plants to shine through
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once again id like you to note it is reported that the ohaze did carry this trait in one of the four colors

i understand inbreeding will hav negative effects,and as you hav said the catpiss seems to be somthin your not lookin for in your haze selections

im curious to know what taste/aromas do you consider superior in your experience with pure haze ?

I
have a dream that a real Haze brother will contact me and tell me that he still has well preserved seeds from the 60's. Failing that, the '97 NH seeds offer the best hope for future hybrids
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well i think its a possibility considering hooteroll is a member her and has chose the mns home to post

best wishes in which ever path is destined


1luvbigherb
 
Yeah hope that post wasn't a bum steer, but was shared after reading this post regarding the history of the Brotherhood of Eternal Love:

"hi ...i am one of those old surfers who saved the imports and the good breeding from 1964 on to the present day if you want to see some of the old strains growing from our sea circle check out CLS seeds or classic seeds on seed bay"

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=142782

Could be anything I agree.
 
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Its taken me days to get through this thread and i can see how late i am to this party,nevil welcome back my man good to see you back at the home of cannabis.
This thread has such a wealth of info so thanks to all who have taken part,one thing that i have to add about the catpiss pheno's,in my expriance is that it pops up alot in the ssh and mango haze and to be truthfull is a very welcome trait for me,
However i never exprianced it in the afgan haze so i always considered it a trait that was added by skunk:eek:.Bring on the grail nevil im hooked
 
You never heard me say that the cat piss phenotypes weren't trippy or strong.
It's just that I want it all, and that includes flavour and smell.
Can't I just have it the way I want? I'm sure I can.
N.
 
Catt Piss

Nevil... Thanks for explaining your views concerning Haze, and cat piss, much appreciated. Wouldn't a Haze Brothers, Haze plant hold the cat piss with the mix of genes involving four Sativas from around the World? I am really high right now and I have to explain further so I don't drive myself crazy. If the Cat Piss Is in The Haze, it will make a true haze plant not a haze plant? That would only leave you with a few choices. Upper Highland Thai, and Cambodium to keep it sweet nd Hazey. I shouldn't come on like this cause I have to read it later. YOUR Fault Nevil! I grew your genes. This is an amazing thread. Thanks, resinbud ;)
 
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Nevil said:
You never heard me say that the cat piss phenotypes weren't trippy or strong.
It's just that I want it all, and that includes flavour and smell.
Can't I just have it the way I want? I'm sure I can.
N.
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i understand

im very curious as to exactly wat you desire in the trait's of taste/aromas in the grail,thats why i was asking wat traits of taste/aromas you consider/desire superior in ohaze ,also curious as to which thai's hav been considered of the available selections ,the dark traits you mention earlier is somthing id lov to see

surely you deserve to


1luvbigherb
 
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I have grown out CLS oregan indica x skunk#1 & his Bullet proof ibls


The Bullet proof was a great for hash EXCELLENT infact, The smoke was nice no real flavours stood out but it was very easy to grow & clone.

The Oregan indica was very very strong, it was like old skool Black Domina before they fucked it up!

The guy seems like a nice enough person no hype no flavour of the month strains just some old skool stuff & a few newer crosses that dont interest me I like it all old... apart from my women.
 
hi all

hi Nevil

How would ya describe the smell/flavor of the other desirable haze expressions?

Piny? sandalwood like?
 
Great question

What is your perfect Haze taste, and smell, Nevil. What is in your head for the ultimate grail that other Hazes just can't offer? What exactly would make the Grail of all Grails to make it the best ever? just curious. resinbud ;)
 
Flavor

In 1976 or 77 , I did a shopping trip to Dennis Perons "Big Top Imports" store on Polk street In SanFrancisco. I got all kinds of imported weed. There were beautiful spicey thai sticks, Giant baskets of very Gold Columbian, but the weed that stood out was in bud form. It was Cambodian Red. I smelled the joint as it came toward me and was amazed. It was like a sweet clean wonderful perfume, and people were remarking about it all over the store. It was like an elegant perfume with a bit of a thai flavor in the background. My vision immediatly changed and everything took on a rose colored Hue. I luckily did not have to drive. It was like psychedelic , and long lasting high
I would gladly pay over 1000 bucks for a clone of that same plant.
In 41 years , that was the best overall weed I have ever had the pleasure to have smoked
This is the quest Im on. Thats what im searching for.
Hey BigHerb: You would have absolutely tripped out on the flavor of that red!

Dr. Purpur
 
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