Who has the real RoadKill Skunk ?


New member

Even though I am new to growing and still learning "Genetic History", I am 51 and I remember smoking all that good shit in mid 80s Ohio ( i had very good connected friends). I left the US (permanently in 91).

Your knowledge and that of the other contributors is mesmerising. This is not the first thread you're in that has had me glued to my screen, lol.

What i have concluded from the whole post, is that: At some time, there was a shit hot strain called Skunk. There was the original and then others started breeding the "recipe" and it also circulated as `skunk. This US vs EU rivalry for historical posterity will inevitably carry on forever, especially when US breeders went to EU and created new lines while maybe blurring old ones and that is maybe why we have confusion (if that makes any sense).

I have some "Shit" growing, thinking it was as close to original Skunk as possible, but now im reading that Devil, SHarkshock, Nordle and Ortega, carry Skunk traits too.

As I have the entire Mr.Nice catalogue (except for Nevil's Haze), Im certain I will eventually (knowingly or not) come across Skunk.

In the end I dont really care, what I want is great good long lasting smoke and I have all the flavours Shanti has to offer. Right now, Im a seed collector first and a grower second. Breeding? Yeah I need a ton load more knowledge and experience before I can safely say "Im not a pollen chucker, lol).

NOW, I am prioritising, Landrace and Bodhi seeds as my priority.

At risk of stirring, may I ask you, Big Sur, what is your historical perspective on OG Kush? You must have been well placed back then when it came from Florida and hit the CA scene.

It maybe a topic for a whole new thread, but thats something I am very keen on learning more about.

A tip of the that to all contributors, and fuck all the other forums, lol.

Big Sur

Well-known member

At risk of stirring, may I ask you, Big Sur, what is your historical perspective on OG Kush? You must have been well placed back then when it came from Florida and hit the CA scene.
Oh, you do like to stir up the shitstorm, don't you? If you do or do not know, I was booted off of IcyRag for the exact reason of posting my perspective on the history of OG Kush there. Well, that and after being warned there by the mods about posting that Sam Skunk was AKA Dave Watson. After I was banned there I came here because of what Nevil and others here had posted about Watson. Their perspective was the same as mine. From different angles. Theirs was from Holland. Mine was from California. Note that I was also banned from the new Overgrow site for similar reasons. I got into it with a Mexican there over my having Zacatecas Purple beans. He claimed that the landrace never existed, and slammed me for it. He claims that there was only one landrace in Mexico. We got into it. He as banned, I was banned, and well, who cares. Overgrow generally claims the Florida story, but I do not. Nor many reasons. Mainly that there are a million and one OG Kush strains in California, and not in Florida. Also THE Triangle is the "Emerald Triangle" in NorCal (Humboldt, Mendocino and Trinity counties) and not some triangle in Florida. I have lived in both states, actually. Also Dog Bud came from NorCal or southern Oregon. I think NorCal is more likely. I have similar proprietary strains as Dog Bud from there from the early 90s in my seed collection.

Anyway, as the story goes, OG Kush started out in California as Dog Bud. A proprietary strain bred there in the black market underground grow scene, likely in Humboldt. Some say it was from south Douglas Co. in Oregon where I lived for 4 years, but I doubt that. Anyway, Dog Bud wound up in Crusty Butt (Crested Butte) Colorado and was grown there and tightly held by a group of weed growers that sold the weed at Dead concerts. The Dead as in Grateful Dead. After a while at one of the Dead concerts some guy from New York or Massachusetts (I forget which) bought some Dog Bud weed and then ordered some more to be shipped to him back east. It was so good. Supposedly there were 11 or 13 beans in it. That strain became known as Chem Dog, later to morph into ChemDawg. ChemDawg4 was one of the original 4 or 5 beans planted that grew the best weed. That has been cloned and has morphed into the entire line of NYC Diesel strains, as it is a really high fuel strain. ChemDawg4 is also still around with several different names.

So the next story line has a split. Some say that ChemDog went to Florida from there and was bred into OG Kush. However, I believe strongly that Chem went to the Grass Valley area of California and OG Kust was first bred there. There are like 100+ Strains of OG Kush all over California. The original, not the later strains like Bubba Kush. Many are from the Tahoe and Sacramento area. Even more are from the LA area. Which breeds were bred with Chem is hard to say, but most favor that it was Lemon Thai. I believe that was bred originally in Grass Valley, and cuts were sent to Salinas (where I also lived near) and SoCal. Those were also bred locally and became Tahoe OG Kush, and local strains like Sac1, Sac2, Sac3. In LA the San Fernando Valley OG Kush strains became popular, and were named Larry, OG Fire, and SFV. The Ghost cut may have gone to Florida and back again to LA. I am not sure. I have grown both the Tahoe and Ghost cuts. Basically the same. Not my kind of weed, really. I much prefer sativas like Durban Poison and Kona Gold. OG Kush was distributed all over California and Bubba Kush and a shitload of other OG Kush hybrids were made. Mainly because by then California had legalized medical weed. Funny that the first state to bad weed in 1910 was the first state to legalize medical weed. I was living in California during all this time by the way. From 1966 to 2004.

So there you have it. Now Mr Nice can ban me from here too ;) High Times has a different story, IcyRag has a different story, as do many others. The black market is like that. My version is from California to to Colorado to New York and back to California. The other story is from Oregon to Colorado to New York to Florida to California. But who cares? Does it really matter? Skunk seems to be very different, and there may have been multiple early hybrid versions grown in California, the Appalachians, and in Europe. I think they all started in California though. Likely in the vicinity of the Santa Cruz mountains.
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Do not know if this is welcome but here it is.The proof is in the seed. Chem Dog is the breeder of "original gangster" He last surfaced working for dinafem seeds. Dinachem and the OG are his work. The code is as follows (pakistani × lemon tai) × chem. An original gangster is some one who started as a street peddler and rose to become the boss. Like the strain OG is at the top of the biggest weed market in the world. If the smell does not scream gasoline, it is not original gangster. High euforia is expected. If you are building tolerance to it sooner than you would like, not OG. Anything that tastes like regular kush without lemon fuel, not OG. Nugs so hard they could take out an eye with a sling shot. Most likely there is an ocean grown kush that came from florida. The proof is in the seed.


New member
But who cares? Does it really matter?

Does it matter ? NO. Who cares? Well I dont know any forums where the origins of certain Tomato strains are discussed with such passion, lol, Im sure some care.

I can see why you got booted off Icmag and Overgrow, lol. I posted a simple topic on OG and its now in the "Sharktank" as people and mods took off in a different tangent, I dont even bother checking the thread as they totally left the topic I was discussing, lol.

Your version is very different, and actually makes more sense. I have read many threads on this topic. Miami Mango, Top Dawg, Josh D and Bubba are the "we got it in FLA" school.

I have concluded that the whole "OG"=Original Gangster, Original, Ocean Grown" debate is simply ALL OF THE ABOVE. Like you said " there are so many different versions. Im sure they are all right, and if they are ALL right then there must be different versions, just like this whole Skunk chat, in this thread.

I have only ever smoked what I have grown (the last 3 years). I have grown the CBD Crew OG Kush CBD, what a plant and the resin extracted was euphoric.

I have also grown commercial Fem seeds of Lemon Thai Kush and Holy Grail. I kind of learned to love the Kush stock.

Its nice to learn that the Chemdog is responsible for Sour Diesel and OG Kush and maybe others that I may learn about later down the road.

I got the Josh D/Karma collab seeds and Other Kush versions. Damm i love learning.

I personally started growing so as to end up with Mango and Super Silver Haze. My preference in the 80s was Sativas not really the indicas, but the chem lines, Sour D and Kushes are putting up a good fight for my pallet, lol.

Cheers to you !


New member
Do not know if this is welcome but here it is.The proof is in the seed. Chem Dog is the breeder of "original gangster" He last surfaced working for dinafem seeds. Dinachem and the OG are his work. The code is as follows (pakistani × lemon tai) × chem. An original gangster is some one who started as a street peddler and rose to become the boss. Like the strain OG is at the top of the biggest weed market in the world. If the smell does not scream gasoline, it is not original gangster. High euforia is expected. If you are building tolerance to it sooner than you would like, not OG. Anything that tastes like regular kush without lemon fuel, not OG. Nugs so hard they could take out an eye with a sling shot. Most likely there is an ocean grown kush that came from florida. The proof is in the seed.
So in your opinion, which strains, currently available in the market, would you recomend? Unless you have some underground shit you have been storing and might share? lol.




Holy Grail from DNA was grown about in 2013. Found something amazing in first 6 seeds. Paid 180 for the pack at the time. The grow exploded in insanity , tequila and sledge hammers. Partners - landlords very unsuitable for successful operation. Lesson learned, just because something is available does't mean you should take it! Cut was lost, but not before a friend did very well with it business wise. Should my order from MNS ever arrive, I will pay for the remaining auctions I have won. Then I will be aquiring Dinafem's dina chem and their OG. Growshopalien sells the seeds for less than direct from dinafem. Have also tried cali connection seeds. Do not reccomend.
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Big Sur

Well-known member
Having been there, the acronym OG came from the original OverGrow web site. Back when OG was like the only Cannabis site like this forum on the web. A guy by the name Ghost on OG is the one that the Ghost OG Kush cut is named after. From there OG has morphed into lots of follow on meanings, as posted here. Mainly 'Original Gangstah' back east and 'Ocean Grown' in SoCal. Both meanings are vehemently defended on the web by many camps. I find it laughable. Here in the PNW it now stands for 'Oregon Grown'. Leafly says OG Kush is a hybrid of ChemDawg and Hindu Kush. There are a million and one stories about the genetics and history online. Few make any sense. About like the 'history' of Skunkweed, Haze, Kona Gold, Durban Poison, Big Sur Holy etc etc. Most are urban legend. A few, like Black Widow (original White Widow) are known. They are the exceptions though.

Claiming specific genetics for a named strain out there is basically meaningless these days. Anyone can call anything what they want. Look at what happend to Haze and Skunk. If you think that you can determine the genetic history of some strain by growing seeds, especially anything called OG anything these days? Good luck with that. Phylos has a catalog of named strains in Galaxy, but those are only as good as what the strain submitters said that they were or were from. There is no verifiable baseline to determine origin. Never mind what Phylos has done with that information to breed strains and make money. Fuckers. As to where they were really sourced from or bred with? Impossible to verify.
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Big Sur

Well-known member
Here is a list of names for OG Kush that I found digging around in 2016. It is by no means complete. Note that many are name places in California. This does not include the Bubba Kush line, or many of the later known hybrids.

Triangle Kush
Triple OG
Ghost OG
Ghost OG Kush
OG Kush
Super OG Kush
San Fernando Valley OG,
Valley OG
Larry OG
El Diablo
Raskal's OG
Hell's Angles OG
Fire OG
SAC #1 (Sacramento)
SAC #2
SAC #3
Poison OG
Private Reserve OG
Purple OG Kush
Tahoe OG
Tahoe OG Kush
Lost Coast OG
True OG
Kosher Kush

Supposedly the best cuts of OG Kush are Tahoe and Ghost.

Big Sur

Well-known member
And the last 2 posts I made on IcyRag that I was (supposedly) banned there for? I think it was more from another post I made about Watson that was removed by the mods. Hard to say. They never sent me anything about my banning there. I was just banned, and then they slammed me on the forums. Meh...

Chem Dog cuts made their way back to the west from NYC. It is still fairly common out here still as a ChemDawg clone-only medical strain. A flowering cut of it was crossed in Grass Valley, CA with a Lemon Thai x Hindu Kush (Pakistani) male. The results of that was OG Kush. After a time that grower married a woman from NZ and he moved there with her. He left his clones with a few people in California, and from there (Salinas and Downey) more cuts were distributed around California. They also made their way out to other states. The OG in the name is attributed to OverGrow.com, where member Ghost received one cut from member OrgnKid. OverGrow was a web site that is now defunct, but was dedicated to growing weed in the 1990s. The cuts made their way around California and to LA where they became known as over a dozen different names, and OG became known as Ocean Grown. In Sacramento the cuts were known as Sac1, Sac2, and Sac3. There as also a Tahoe cut and the Lost Coast (the name for the Mendocino and Humboldt Co coast) cut. It is debatable if the Triangle Kush was attributed to the Florida Triangle (Miami, Jacksonville and Tampa), or the Emerald Triangle in NorCal. I believe that all of these names are for the same genetics, of which I have grown several myself, including Ghost, Triangle Kush and SFV Kush.

... ... ...

By Kailua kid from Sierra Seeds:

In late '93 John from Grass Valley Ca. got the Chem Dog cut. He shared it with me, Jerry(cowboy) from Dibble Creek Ca. and Harold(Putz) from Sunset Beach Ca. Putz had a male he called the secret ingredient. It was a cross of Lemon Thai and an Old World Paki Kush. Putz bred the secret ingredient to the Chem Dog. The buds that came out of this cross were going around So. L.A. county in '95. Someone told Putz that Kush must be so good because it was mountain grown. Putz laughed and told him "this Kush is Ocean Grown Kush bro". The tag stuck and it became known as OG Kush. In the spring of '96 Putz married a girl from New Zealand. Before moving there he sent cuts of his OG to me and Bob(beans) in Salinas Ca. He gave all his P1 stock and all the remaining seed he had to Mike(mad dog) from Downey Ca. In late '96 Mike sold some seed to some guys in the Valley. That's where the San Fernando Valley cut of OG comes from. It's like the Original only more sat in pheno type. Mike sold a cut of the original to a guy in Orange county and that cut is called Larry today. It's still around Orange county. Mike sent one other cut of the original OG to a breeder in Europe. As far as I know he never let anyone else have it.



New member
Mr Nice New Skunk and SHIT!! is my next buy! So far I have got these to hunt through in search of the cat shit weed this next season. I just learned about this site recently and would like to order these strains for the next year, probably Shit Ortega New Skunk and G13 Skunk. I got these in the cooler now

1988 G13x Hashplant Hazeman
Soda Creek Skunk TNF
Ogre Skunk TNF
Dumpster Skunk V2 TNF
StarDawg Hazeman
LA Pure Kush x ChemD Hazeman
Munson , Dominion , NL5 x Dominion Skunk >((Skunk VA Chemdog x SSSC Skunk 1) x (Skelly Hashplant x SSSC Skunk 1))
Skunkband V2 , Dominion, Headband x Dominion Skunk
Delta Blues , Dominion, 88 G13 Hashplant x Screaming Eagle (Airborne G13 x “88 G13 Hashplant x Afghani”)
Shineapple , Dominion , VA Beach Afghani x (Airborne G13 x “Hashplant x Afghani”)
Granny Skunk , Dominion, Virginia Beach Afghani x (Skelly Hashplant x SSSC SKunk 1)
6Mill , Dominion, local H x Dom Skunk
Skunkage THSeeds
Skunk Crippler TNF
Peace Pipe Skunk TNF
Red Eye Skunk TNF
Red Eye Skunk TNF
Hog Nose Skunk TNF
Shiva Skunk Redux 2 TNF
I want to mix a few of these together and try the Mr Nice gear as well, after hunting some phenos and taking cuts for indoors next year. This is my rookie season but very seasoned consumer end. Tired of that I want to grow my own SHIT! literally.

A few of the top name posters here reviewed TNF and convinced me to try them since he is in the states. Plus the haters I usually just buy whatever the haters tell me sucks or don't buy on gossip based reasons. I buy things just because they are haters. So far TNF is really good also DCSB Hazeman and SHN . Now back to Mr Nice, are there any Mr.Nice distributors in the USA ? It looks like we send the money overseas and they send the beans back? I really don't like sending Money orders overseas but I will because I do want the True to the Menu >REAL< original Mr Nice seeds everyone uses for there mixes. I want the G13 Skunk as well, like pokemon I want them all ! We must find the RKS again! Thanks for the thread on RKS I have had it 1 time and it does exist . For those who do not know It is SUPER powerful and stinks unreal eye watering squinting craziness Nothing compares ! I want to find it again ! I am looking forward to trying Mr Nice SHIT! Next !
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New member
Never mind what Phylos has done with that information to breed strains and make money. Fuckers.
Robert C. Clarke: Why I’ve Resigned From the Phylos Bioscience Scientific Advisory Board. In the wake of Phylos Bioscience's breeding program announcement, a close look at the headlines' impact. June 26, 2019

Editor's note: Robert C. Clarke, cannabis researcher and Cannabis Business Times columnist, shares his thoughts on why he resigned from the Phylos Bioscience Scientific Advisory Board in the wake of the company's announcement to start a breeding program. As the news prompts conversations about cannabis genetics research and intellectual property protection across the industry, Clarke wished to make his thoughts public.

This short message marks my resignation from the Phylos Bioscience Scientific Advisory Board. In recent weeks it has become increasingly apparent that we no longer share the same research goals, and I am very sorry it worked out this way for all concerned.

I support Cannabis science on many fronts, and I will continue to push Cannabis science into the forefront. Exploring and understanding the genome are key steps in realizing the great potentials of Cannabis and many other crop plants. Those who believe in progressive science accept that the study of inheritance is important to the future of developing successful cultivars, and that genomics offers extremely valuable tools. Research concerning the Cannabis plant has largely been ignored by governments and in turn academic institutions, and the responsibility for cannabis-related R&D now lies firmly within the private business sector. Businesses aim to make profits, and this core motive will drive cannabis science for the foreseeable future.

Members of our cannabis community chose various paths in relation to Phylos Bioscience. My decision to engage was based on scientific interest. Many of us assumed that Phylos would follow its somewhat predictable economic path towards becoming a variety breeding company and nursery. Therefore, I did not supply the company with live seeds, as live seeds were not needed for its phylogenetic research anyway. Others chose a different path and intentionally aligned themselves with Phylos, providing the company with their cherished varieties with the hope of assisting it with commercial cultivar selections and eventual breeding projects. Others formed differing relationships all with the best of intentions, just trying to do the right thing.

Then, Phylos changed its public face and insulted the community whose trust it had garnered by suddenly providing duplicitous explanations of its varied intents. Its actions raised simple questions: “Is Phylos working for me, the boutique grower, by protecting my hard-won heritage with their Galaxy? Or, do they have a hidden agenda?” Most insulting was Phylos discounting the crowd-sourced science and personal initiative that produced our amazingly diverse Cannabis cultivars. Without the international culture of clandestine cannabis growers and breeders, Phylos and other Cannabis genomics companies would have little space to occupy today.

My personal disappointment, which is shared by many whom I persuaded to submit samples, is that Phylos was unable to carry out the science it initially planned. Corporate interests ruled and their basic research was delayed. Driven by scientific curiosity, we all looked forward to the possibility that DNA sequencing might add to our phylogenetic knowledge and shed light on the history and relatively recent domestication of present-day cultivars. Many took an interest and we solicited samples primarily of landraces from foreign sources and their very early hybrids – the exotic building blocks of modern sinsemilla cultivars – especially samples that pre-dated or were isolated from the rampant spread of “Dutch” seeds. About half the samples submitted with this intent were sequenced and added to the Phylos Galaxy the optical results to be shared by all. Should the task be completed one fine day, we may then realize the insights we all yearn for.

There exists a persistent yet nebulus feeling amongst members of our community that raw Cannabis genome data is of great value, and possibly someday it will be of great value, but to say that data Phylos collected from donated samples is of great value would be speculative at best. There is great anticipation surrounding the advances in variety improvement that will be made using the potentially powerful tool of marker-assisted breeding to isolate the genes for rare traits. Marker-assisted breeding relies on phenotype data characterizing the plants the genomic data is collected from. It is difficult to find genetic markers for a trait in the absence of a plant that expresses that trait. Without phenotype data the genomic data is debased and of less value to variety development research. This is why genomics companies will all end up either growing their own plants and collecting their own genomic data (or contracting someone else to do it for them) to support their variety improvement programs.

As a technological species we rely heavily on science, yet many in today’s world doubt its veracity and honesty. Phylos bridged the divide between the cannabis community and rigorous science and made that science accessible and compelling to many. And then it torched that bridge. Not only were people disappointed by Phylos—Phylos discolored its feelings about science as well. However, those who distrust the alliance of science and industry have much more powerful and potentially evil companies to fear, and we should all come to grips with the emotionally sensitive issues surrounding how we feel about the inevitable influences of agribusiness impinging on our futures.

In closing, I must add that I find the behavior of some members of our cannabis community quite disappointing. Scanty information concerning sensitive topics can prove a dangerous thing, and it is far too cheap and easy to point accusing fingers through the hazy smog of the Internet. Once again, well-meaning people are being dragged onto the smoldering pyre of conspiracy theories by rabid cannabis reactionaries unfairly accusing them of collaborating with an imaginary enemy. Most of those chased by the lynch mob of unfounded public opinion survived decades of prohibition, devoted much of their lives to pushing our knowledge of the Cannabis plant to new limits, and remain dedicated allies of our favorite plant to this day. Taking them to task over problems created by Phylos is additionally disrespectful of our community. Do you support such allegations, or do you prefer that logic reassert itself?

All I hope for is that lessons will be learned by all involved, and that Cannabis-based science will proceed hand-in-hand with both successful business models and heightened social awareness. Science marches on, so let’s make the best of it.

Source https://www.cannabisbusinesstimes.c...ke-resign-phylos-bioscience-cannabis-breeding
First time using this site, just read the whole thread to see where everyone is at with the RKS. I know straymindset is saying on IG that he has found what may be a true RKS that was being held by a dairy farmer in michigan and is releasing crosses this year. Also I had read in this thread that the colombian landrace they call mango biche is no longer grown but that is incorrect, I personally collected sample from farmer in the mountains outside Corinto last year.

Big Sur

Well-known member
Interesante. My contacts in Colombia and posts on the Latino mj forums all say that all the old landraces there are extinct and bred locally there with indica. They also say that us old hippies from the 1970s are the only ones that have any of that left. No one there or here could confirm where Mango Biche was grown back in the day, or where it originated. My guess was that it was grown farther south with Punto Rojo in and south of Huila. Though Cauca is adjacent to Huila.