Unique haze c progeny leaf morphology

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piffcat

Well-known member
Nevils a and c males seem to contain ancient fan leaf morphology traits. I'm not talking fat/skinny but stem color color tinted shape surface patterns. Its fascinating way to look thru pics(or better yet plants.)

Here is the best example that got me going:
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This pic by tropical seeds is from an f2 population from sensis nl5 haze 91ish. This pheno had no indica characteristics. Wouldn't flower until 10/14 believe 22 weeks it flowered.

Now what stands out to me is the very dull seration, maroon stem
and petiole drab green color and obtuse spread angle from bottom up.

Here is a pic of haze c male
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Not great pic but verifies the leaves are dull seration oblong cupped. Kinda hard to say if leaves are identical but they share what little observable traits.
Ik not suggesting this is haze c male exact pheno type . There is a common thread of the most nld long flowering*primal haze shining* of his progeny being of this leaf morphology. I really think we old lines like this we are close enough to beginning to see phenos of early seed mothers giving birth to the line.

So here is g13 x haze c male soma popped from nevil. He's very late flowering haze c progeny known to stamp haze and long flower times into all his seed.
He shares maroon petioles w dull oblong cupped leaves

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piffcat

Well-known member
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This lady is a killerc5 by syd barrett's went I believe 19 to 20 weeks took up his whole tent ny looks of it... remind ya of a lady named fh? This plant was gorgeousScreenshot_20210320-095628_Gallery.jpgScreenshot_20210320-095617_Gallery.jpgScreenshot_20210320-094333_Chrome.jpg

Next group from yo Sammy's isaac haze÷ ag13 xc5(mr nice 6haze male)
Selections done by haze king sammyScreenshot_20210320-095749_Gallery.jpg
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Last for now is super nevils haze which is Sammy's rare early editions nh x to malawian killer queen. This pure haze pheno is very infrequent probably 5%. It literally flowers twice as long other phenols but appears to be a haze c throwback or a/c together. No trace of Malawi is also available as a regular line imagine the damage a male could do!

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I like to hunt through colombian mexican thai and vietnam landrace picture threads and match them up with different haze pheno leaves. Since many of best lines being killed with paraquar etc always fun to track down an oddball throwback and kind missing piece of genetic puzzle!

Using theseus for breeding projects sounds fun try an isolate some cool stuff. The examples of discussed pheno I saw mango biche colombian black and Colombian gold as well.
Mango biche
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Colombian black
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piffcat

Well-known member
That plant that you've put up from tropical looks very similar to how I remember what nevil called the 122 looking
Funny part about that is mangobiche had closest matching colombian leaf I could find!
Tropicals f2 were produced by taking most sativa Male and female from f1 population of sensi 91 5hz. Finish times were 90 to 120 days! The pheno in picture took 150!
They didn't use it in f3 gen BUT they did outcross it with ace green haze #19 male
Called extreme haze.
Nevil would have loved this idea- no catpiss inbreeding and outcross to a similar but distinct male haze line. The old timers mother line is 100% colombian gold according to phylos. The male actually shortened the finish time! And old timers is known to be very late finish.

The phenos I've seen grown are distinct to ibe parent

C5
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Old tiner pheno
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This eh could be brought to f2 and find a hz122 pheno or even straight up haze c throwback .

Also possible to get in fh territory considering nevils theory - fh(thai/vietnam x rojo morada c black etc) x freshblood columbian male (gold or biche) = haze c
male.
All guesses but those f2s could give us more incite.
 

n2ishun

Well-known member
Guesses is about it.
Most of those pics you post are FAR too densely budded to be sativa.
Sativa's just dont go that way.
Just like 99% of shit on the market, it's a sativa/indica hybrid.
It seems, also, that you're thinking sativa like thin leaves mean something special...it doesnt.
I've seen plenty of pure indicas with thin leaves and even more sativa's with fat leaves.
Plant structure, bud density, and calyx size are the best gauges....dont know of any indicas that will impart a foxtail structure but some hybrids will show a little.
Look at barneys Dr. Grinspoon strain since it's easy to find pics of....that's sativa bud structure in a nutshell.
Still nothing to get excited about imho

Btw, here is my grow area....spot the sativa's, there are 4 pure sats and 5 indi/sat hybrids....not so easy unless you really know you're shit.
Btw, obviously light penetration being an issue EVER is a myth...but people keep thinking it's something to worry about....stoopid kids that dunno shit about growing.
 
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#NightMare#

Well-known member
I like your plants n2ishun...especially the big one on the right....id love seeing them abit closer.
Piffcat isnt doing too bad. At least he has some direction and a goal. He doesn't just want to get what ever hype clones and bang them together. I think he's going about things the right way.
The extreme haze ive seen them grow, they look nice. Can have massive stretching and big spaces inbetween the internodes. I think they look nice.

N2ishun are you growing some of nevils hybrids by any chance.?
 
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piffcat

Well-known member
Unfortunately I can't take credit for any of these plants lol guess wasn't super clear. They are pics from insta etc yo sammy dubi syd babarrett's. Some of the best haze growers on earth.... My point on leaves isn't about sativa nld etc. Its about noticing traits. Reading nevils process for linebreeding and outcrossing relied heavily on his nose and eyes. Whatever they are genetically haze a and c were built with true landrace lines. Leaf morphology-not thin or wide but actual observable traits- can be very valuable tool. These original lines were stable ibl so an ancient looking leaf can assist as a throwback to previous gens. Also the plants I'm using as examples flower times are-- 150 days tropical 19 weeks on syd barrett's killerc5 18 on dubis super malawi and 16 on yo Sammy's ag13 x c5. Sativas can and do grow large buds
 

n2ishun

Well-known member
Haze is an unknown, it's not some known hybrid and it certainly is not stable like skunk#1 is.
They were just something dave Watson gave/sold/traded to nevil and nevil did not know specifics about it.
Its *assumed* to be thai, lumbo, and mex, but you'd have to trust dave Watson on that and I'm not going there....that fuckstain owes me blood and if I ever catch up with him I intend to collect.
This here weed thing is nothing but rumours and lies from one end to the other.
No one knows what even skunk#1 is made up from....well, because watson.
You're not going to find and true lumbo, or thai, or mex, because they are all pretty much extinct save for a few of us old bastards that knew enough to keep beans in the freezer in a way that preserved them.
Sorry man, but everything you'll find out there is an unknown polyhybrid x some other unknown polyhybrid.
I'm certain Scott has a few mothers that are known, but I'm not hearing about them....are you ?
Black widow is allegedly a cross from some brazillian sat...but I haven't seen anything of that Brazilian anywhere.
Scott, I'd be real interested to see it if ya could ???
 

#NightMare#

Well-known member
Wouldn't really mater if haze is a poly hybrid, still a sativa poly. And is the subject of the thread. Its been around for over half a century for a reason.

Piffcat what do you think of the extreme haze. It looks to me like the 5c has improved the old timer haze, that purple gold phenotype looks beter . It dont look like old timers has improved the 5c much tho as it pretty much looks like other sativa leaning 5c plants. Thats quite interesting
 

piffcat

Well-known member
Wouldn't really mater if haze is a poly hybrid, still a sativa poly. And is the subject of the thread. Its been around for over half a century for a reason.

Piffcat what do you think of the extreme haze. It looks to me like the 5c has improved the old timer haze, that purple gold phenotype looks beter . It dont look like old timers has improved the 5c much tho as it pretty much looks like other sativa leaning 5c plants. Thats quite interesting
I'd really like to pop 100 of extreme haze and use the purple old timer pheno as breeding stock for linebreeding to haze a hybrid. Nevil always thought haze c had colombian gold traits and ot1 is def half col. Gold. So you have basically an all star col gold male w stability then mate it to interesting haze a hybrids such as outback haze which is nh36xhempys thia then put to nh21.
Either way fact that tropical outcross the 150 day pheno instead of selling or inbreeding leaves all those jungle sativa traits in tact instead of muddled up w an increasing nl5 influence.
 

shantibaba

Breeder and moderator
Personally it is difficult to put so much onto a single trait like leaf traits...as this does not reflect the other traits very well generally. Glad to see people delving into theories and ideas, but both Nevil and I never used a plant that went to more than 16 weeks flower in breeding. We also know that HzC male instils a particular aroma to a strain and this is one of its strongest traits. In fact if you do crack alot of seed of any of the major sativas we at MNS produce, you will smell a more common trait than see one...but leaf traits in such strains as G13 really do stand out as dominant traits the mother passes on for example.....all the best Sb
 

Islandgrower

MNS Hall of Fame
Phylos just had a 70s thai stick added to database.... its number 1 relative... colombian gold. And the plot thickens lol
Strange indeed . Of the 3 varieties tested the other 2 were related to Paraguay1 variety and no other south American strains.Screenshot_20210329-123501_Chrome.jpgScreenshot_20210329-123202_Chrome.jpgScreenshot_20210329-123344_Chrome.jpgScreenshot_20210329-123357_Chrome.jpgScreenshot_20210329-123410_Chrome.jpgScreenshot_20210329-123420_Chrome.jpgScreenshot_20210329-123432_Chrome.jpgScreenshot_20210329-123443_Chrome.jpg
 
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