Search for Punto Rojo

Broseidon

Member
I bought Ace's Malawi Breeder's pack a few years ago and still have it.

I grew out 5 of the "New Killer" Malawi. Flowered 2 of them.

Disclaimer: I messed up hella in that grow and had problems upon problems so my findings might not be very representative and I haven't written the strain off by any means but:

I was not convinced at all. When I took to the net and looked for more critical opinions on the very hyped Malawi, I did find them.

I believe Musashi also dabbled with the strain and categorized it as "hay" (chime in here Bro if I misquote you or anything).

What really led to some buyer's remorse for me was when I found out that Ace gear is generally hybridized and not at all the 100% Sativa or Indica stuff they claim.

It was curious to me from the start, how a pure Sativa from Africa is supposed to finish in about 80-100 days, while the greatly hybridized SuperSilverHaze and Mango Haze finish in about the same time and have clearly documented, heavy indica influences (which, reading on the history, were introduced chiefly to reduce flowering times). Somehow a 100% Sativa is supposed to achieve the same ...

I bought it up, grew it and will grow it again. But in the same run with all the issues, I also flowered a MH IBL and I couldn't categorize one or the other as superior or whatever.
I remember the advertised "raciness" of the Malawi shining through, otherwise it was "meh" for me.

But I will try it again in a better environment without mistakes and then make up my final opinion.
For now, it is solid stuff for sure, not crap by any means (to me). But also way overhyped. I remember the structure of the plants and overall yield was very impressive. They grew very nice.

Would definitely say the Malawi and Ace strains in general are overhyped and I had my suspicions about them not being 100% Sativa confirmed through some folks inside the Spanish scene who said that Ace does cross Indicas to those landrace strains to make them possible to grow indoor. They still advertise as 100% landrace Sativa though and that I didn't like at all.
Apparently they were also found out on some of those strains and changed their 100% landrace Sativa claim. I forgot which one it was, Golden Tiger? No I believe that one was always advertised as a hybrid... But one of those strains was advertised as 100% landrace Sativa 2 years ago when I bought the seeds and was categorized as a hybrid a year or 2 later when I checked ...


Also as a sidenote:
The folks at ace weren't exactly friendly and were the least willing to barter and make a deal, pretty much insisting on listed prices on their website, no matter how much you buy. Probably because they were so hyped back then (has died down quite a bit since).
Every other breeder I contacted was super friendly and showed that they understand basic bartering and economics. Ace's folks do not.
 
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Vlad the Inhaler

Active member
In the Ace description, they describe the Malawi/Panama as only suited to hardened travelers, beware.
I guess it had been tamed, just hoping it still has a bit to give.
Thanks for the tip.
 

musashi

Site Moderator
Staff member
I have not tried growing Panama or Panama crosses. I have grown Viet Black, Malawi, Jarillo de Sinaloa, Golden Tiger from both companies mentioned using 5 and 10 paks. I have mentioned this in past threads. For several good reasons, Ace and CBG belong in the also ran box, IMO. They are not in the same league as MNS based on my one grow experience. Their rather verbose advertising didn’t translate into the psychotic events they boasted about. Medium highs, little uniformity, high percentage of herms, moderate yields considering 11+ wks. Perhaps it is possible to find something... but the effort would require taking a rather long road to get there IME. I’ve had better success with 11 wk. cultivars like NL5/Hz, MH, NHM, Neville’s- better yields and potency. Lesser time and racier? Try La Nina.

Shaka
M
 
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Marcus_in_the_Darkus

Well-known member
Thanks for your comments musashi, Vlad, PMB, Bro and CannaFish. My spidy senses often detect hype and BS when I read threads on the Ace forms on IC Mag, so useful to hear these objective opinions on Ace and CBG gear from experienced growers on this site. I have not bought any of Ace's gear because their prices are so high, particularly when compared to what I can pick up from the MNS auctions.

It would be nice if I didn't have to venture outside of the MNS family to find a pure sativa. Sounds like those advertised by Ace as 100% pure may not be so.

My little Colombians are doing well. I topped them about a week ago and the cuts are rooting under 12/12. I'll put the female rooted clones in the flower tent in a week or two and start the show.
 

Broseidon

Member
In terms of bang for your buck (price per bean, whatever you wanna call it), you will never get the same deals as with MNS elsewhere.

People are just not Shanti elsewhere and Shanti is not stingy with his beans. He gets it, he knows the more its grown, the larger the chance it survives long term in this world. And I assume since he was one of the pioneers, he already went through the phase where you charge massive amounts per bean for your plants.

But trust me, I scoured the web and did a year of research, there are no comparable deals as the auctions from MNS. Nothing comes close.

That being said:
I too landed with Ace because I wanted an as pure as possible Sativa. And even though the first impression I got from the Malawi was "overhyped", it did have the Sativa characteristics from the eye test, the thin leafs, the spear-shaped buds etc. etc.
I would say even moreso than the Mango Haze I ran at the same time.

I also didn't land with Ace by coincidence. It was between CBG and Ace because they were, by all accounts, the frontrunners in terms of landrace genetics (the other candidates were places like world of seeds or this or that rastaman brand that were, by all accounts, not reliable/reputable).

And at the time I got the beans, they were just merging CBG and Ace and Ace was looking like (and turned out to be) the winner of that merger and the main surviving brand. So I went with Ace.
 

musashi

Site Moderator
Staff member
I purchased their products reasoning that they were pure and very potent sativas. At the time, they seemed to have the goods. They did present with typical sativa characteristics as Bro said. As I recall, initially racy on smoking, the high was short lived. The high lacked complexity- one dimensional. If these plants have been hybridized, well then what is the purpose? Might as well buy the inexpensive Seedsman Mama Thai. At least they have admitted to adding skunk to their product.
My argument is around potency, price, stability, yield. Nowadays, if I am going to spend the time, I would rather spend it teasing out phenos from Nevilles or Doors.
Bottom line, ACE and CBG did not fulfill my personal goal of finding potent plants I could use to enhance my own work. I have found more kick ass plants in a shorter time frame with MNS regular seeds WITHOUT needing to breed. However, making crosses using MNS plants has resulted in some real fire. I attribute this to superior MNS genetics.

Cool runnings
M
 

Marcus_in_the_Darkus

Well-known member
I have confirmed sex on only 3 of the Punto Rojo x Mangobiche plants: #2 and #3 are girls (for now :) ) and #8 is a boy. PRM#5 was culled as a WLD outlier. I topped them a couple weeks ago and rooted the cuttings under 12/12. They rooted easily. Last night I put six PRM rooted clones into 4-gallon hempy buckets with fresh coco and and moved them into my flower tent. I also flowered four Grail Widow F2s, GW311 - GW314. PRM8 will be flowered as a bonsai in my Flowering Chamber for Randy Males. This will be my first grow using Jack's 3-2-1 for nutes.

Here are PRM1 through PRM 4 enjoying the late August sun. I was feeding them mostly water up until recently and the lower leaves are still greening up. I've seen some prominent trichomes on early fan leaves, which is a good sign, but I forgot to write down which plants I saw them on other than PRM3. Smells are wonderful, piney, floral, fruity, spicy.



And here are PRM6 through PRM8. PRM6 remains the plant with the skinniest leaves, I'm going with CannaFish and saying it's my favorite so far, based on leaf morphology if nothing else.



I'm going to take some more cuts in a few days before we get too late in the summer. One of the cuts in the flower tent (PRM4) is hurting pretty badly and may not make it, so I need some backups. Shame to top and cut up these beautiful plants but they'll be dead in a couple months anyway.
 

Joker

Active member
What do you folks think about snowhigh seeds? Do they measure upto the hype i was hearing 1 to 2 yeard ago? Pipe dream is the one i would like to get among some of his sat crosses...thanks...

How do you rate their Panama?
I've got some Malawi/Panama in the mail.
It looks pretty greasy.
I bought Ace's Malawi Breeder's pack a few years ago and still have it.

I grew out 5 of the "New Killer" Malawi. Flowered 2 of them.

Disclaimer: I messed up hella in that grow and had problems upon problems so my findings might not be very representative and I haven't written the strain off by any means but:

I was not convinced at all. When I took to the net and looked for more critical opinions on the very hyped Malawi, I did find them.

I believe Musashi also dabbled with the strain and categorized it as "hay" (chime in here Bro if I misquote you or anything).

What really led to some buyer's remorse for me was when I found out that Ace gear is generally hybridized and not at all the 100% Sativa or Indica stuff they claim.

It was curious to me from the start, how a pure Sativa from Africa is supposed to finish in about 80-100 days, while the greatly hybridized SuperSilverHaze and Mango Haze finish in about the same time and have clearly documented, heavy indica influences (which, reading on the history, were introduced chiefly to reduce flowering times). Somehow a 100% Sativa is supposed to achieve the same ...

I bought it up, grew it and will grow it again. But in the same run with all the issues, I also flowered a MH IBL and I couldn't categorize one or the other as superior or whatever.
I remember the advertised "raciness" of the Malawi shining through, otherwise it was "meh" for me.

But I will try it again in a better environment without mistakes and then make up my final opinion.
For now, it is solid stuff for sure, not crap by any means (to me). But also way overhyped. I remember the structure of the plants and overall yield was very impressive. They grew very nice.

Would definitely say the Malawi and Ace strains in general are overhyped and I had my suspicions about them not being 100% Sativa confirmed through some folks inside the Spanish scene who said that Ace does cross Indicas to those landrace strains to make them possible to grow indoor. They still advertise as 100% landrace Sativa though and that I didn't like at all.
Apparently they were also found out on some of those strains and changed their 100% landrace Sativa claim. I forgot which one it was, Golden Tiger? No I believe that one was always advertised as a hybrid... But one of those strains was advertised as 100% landrace Sativa 2 years ago when I bought the seeds and was categorized as a hybrid a year or 2 later when I checked ...


Also as a sidenote:
The folks at ace weren't exactly friendly and were the least willing to barter and make a deal, pretty much insisting on listed prices on their website, no matter how much you buy. Probably because they were so hyped back then (has died down quite a bit since).
Every other breeder I contacted was super friendly and showed that they understand basic bartering and economics. Ace's folks do not.
I have not tried growing Panama or Panama crosses. I have grown Viet Black, Malawi, Jarillo de Sinaloa, Golden Tiger from both companies mentioned using 5 and 10 paks. I have mentioned this in past threads. For several good reasons, Ace and CBG belong in the also ran box, IMO. They are not in the same league as MNS based on my one grow experience. Their rather verbose advertising didn’t translate into the psychotic events they boasted about. Medium highs, little uniformity, high percentage of herms, moderate yields considering 11+ wks. Perhaps it is possible to find something... but the effort would require taking a rather long road to get there IME. I’ve had better success with 11 wk. cultivars like NL5/Hz, MH, NHM, Neville’s- better yields and potency. Lesser time and racier? Try La Nina.

Shaka
M
Thanks for your comments musashi, Vlad, PMB, Bro and CannaFish. My spidy senses often detect hype and BS when I read threads on the Ace forms on IC Mag, so useful to hear these objective opinions on Ace and CBG gear from experienced growers on this site. I have not bought any of Ace's gear because their prices are so high, particularly when compared to what I can pick up from the MNS auctions.

It would be nice if I didn't have to venture outside of the MNS family to find a pure sativa. Sounds like those advertised by Ace as 100% pure may not be so.

My little Colombians are doing well. I topped them about a week ago and the cuts are rooting under 12/12. I'll put the female rooted clones in the flower tent in a week or two and start the show.
 

Big Sur

Well-known member
Yeah, you get a lot of pinene in Colombian red hair plants. Early on in Big Sur when people first started planting Colombian seeds from bag weed, the thought was that the pinene came from nearby Monterey pine trees that the Cannabis picked up on. But that was not the case.
 

Pillydread

New member
Beautiful plants, Markus! Congrats! I also have a couple of mangobiche pack in the fridge, shoud i grow them, but I have a lot of strain and no more space... I also have both ace and cbg things, I know there are a lot of bad rumors about them, and I know that many hate dubi, I honestly do not care much (in the sense that I let the plants tell the truth), Dubi has always been kind and clear in the answers and i considers Charlie Garcia a talented breeder,however I'm not a fanboy, so i can say that her nepalese highland is hibrid for sure, their Panama has been working a lot for the indoor (but may have been hybridized by the supplier), i have many doubt about malawi, but the rest are legit...(
I like their haze x thai ...)
 

Marcus_in_the_Darkus

Well-known member
Thanks for the kind words gentlemen. Fish, those outdoor Punto Rojo x Mangobiche photos are beautiful. I wish I was in a location where I could finish these outside. As it is, my tent is going to be extremely crowded as it looks like only one of the PuntoBiche plants is a male, so I'll have six Colombian girls in the tent along with a couple Grail Widow F2s. I expect these plants to stretch for over a month, so it's going to be crazy trying to keep these plants under control in my 4x4 tent.

They all have really exotic smells, with #7 being my favorite smell, very piney and not so sweet. Plants #4 and #6 suffered from some sort of caterpillar web thingy that must've been on the cuttings I took and in my cloner, because the tops and leaves were stuck together with silk threads. Plant # 4 succumbed to this pest and #6 almost did until I topped it. So #6 looks funny and is a little behind her sisters while #4 has just been replaced with a new clone that showed it's first root tonight (only 8 days!), so #4 will be 11 days behind the other girls.

Loving the smells and the skinny, skinny leaves.


PRM #1-3 back row L-R; 4 (dead and replaced), 6 and 7 front row, and #8 male is the bonsai.
 

Marcus_in_the_Darkus

Well-known member
A prescient remark, Cannafish. I have just confirmed (I think!) that #1 is a male (as I originally hoped), so I'll have 5 girls to flower along with 2 Grail Widow F2 girls. Meanwhile, the PuntoBiche seed plants have handled some recent cold temps (48° F) without issue and they look great.
 

Marcus_in_the_Darkus

Well-known member
8 Weeks

My search for punto rojo may have hit pay dirt, as I have sourced some punto rojo seeds collected from Colombia via Italy from a new seed bank, The Landrace Team. Search on that term on IC Mag for a thread. One of TLT members is from Colombia, has been in the military and accessed remote areas of the country and claims to have reproduced 11 heirloom strains. His user name is Criposo Art. The seeds I got are tiny. I also got some Kerala seeds. The proof will be in the seed. Here's what he said about the punto rojo.

Ours is really authentic and preserved for two decades by me and come from the hands of local peasants from the 60s, 7Os and 80s, there must also be many other paices maybe that came in these days that have good sources also. Those of Colombia Punto Rojo offered by CBG is a cross of two Punto Rojo lines from the south and the north, it grows beautiful with great vigor and nice floral structure, I got them given by kaiki, it smells like Colombia but its effect is “turned off” to talk about Punto Rojo. I have smoked Punto Rojo from other sources, and they are really not pure and they smell like something else, surely not Colombia. What is offered through The Landrace Team has not been crossed, it’s only been reproduced. We have used it to make crosses and hybrids and it works very well bringing this great strength and endurance and, of course, its sweet aromas.
Meanwhile, my 4x4 tent is absolutely out of control with 5 punto rojo x mangobiche females and 2 grail widow F2s now at 8 weeks of flowering. I just reduced the light cycle to 11/13. These sativas didn't stop stretching until week 7. I've had to bend and train the fuck out of them. My tent is insanely crowded.

Here's PRM2, which will definitely be the first to finish.



PRM3. Nice mango smells.



PRM4. The first clone died from a caterpillar pest so this second clone is a few weeks behind the rest. She is starved for light in the overcrowded tent.



PRM6 is the narrowest leaved pheno. She's been finicky to feed, but I've got her figured out. Probably the longest flowering girl in the tent.



PRM 7 is the most vigorous plant and smells amazing - pepper and sweet spice.


My best guess is #2 will be a 14 week plant, #3 will be 16 weeks, and # 6 and #7 will be 18+ weeks.
 
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Broseidon

Member
Poor girls looking like they would like 5x the pot size and are aching for the big fireball in the sky.

Easy to see from these pics why people always go on about pure Sativas being quite the project indoors.

Looks like you are doing a great job at it though!
 

Marcus_in_the_Darkus

Well-known member
Here's what my puntobiche female seed plants look like on October 30 at 42N. It's been terrible weather since early September, lots of rain, lots of cloudy days, very little sunshine, and the first frost came about a month earlier than it did the last few years. These gals are not happy, yet they continue to do their thing.

Left to right #2, 3, 4, 6 and 7. I brought #7 in before the first frost a couple weeks ago and left the others outside; they've been through a couple frosty mornings now. Puntobiche #2 purpled up big time, is the smallest, is the fastest and best yielding plant, and has that smell of fine Colombian. Calyxes on #6, the skinniest-leaved, spiciest smelling plant also got purple. I might move all these girls inside to give them a shot at finishing.

 
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