Plasma post ?

ozonerider

New member
Ok I read a post a little while back about the plasma lights out of the uk I think . Anyway it was about pricing and to even contact the poster about a hook up price . But I'l be dammed if I can find it! :confused:, a search on plasma didn't turn it up . Can someone here take my hand and show me the posting ? Please :)

Many thanks, OZ
 

cannatari

New member
I remember that thread because it was the first time I heard of plasma referred to as "Induction Lighting". Try searching for it that way.

Peace.
 

ozonerider

New member
Thanks guys for the info overload, my brain hurts :eek: But having said that and after further searching...I still haven't found the post I was after :(
In the post there was pricing of about $300 ? or so for the 220 volt model and I think the 120 was close to a grand ?? I dunno, startin to think I was trippin...:D

the search continues:p

peace Oz :)
 
S

southern sun

Guest
Thanks guys for the info overload, my brain hurts :eek: But having said that and after further searching...I still haven't found the post I was after :(
In the post there was pricing of about $300 ? or so for the 220 volt model and I think the 120 was close to a grand ?? I dunno, startin to think I was trippin...:D

the search continues:p

peace Oz :)
hi oz, if you were trippin as you put it, maybe you read it somewhere other than MNS??:)

Sulphur Plasma Grow Light Systems (MPS)? - Grasscity.com Forums

dunno if this what you're looking for...
all the best,
southern sun
 

OniusOniusOnius

New member
Ok, here's the inside story on sulfur plasma. Looked heavily into it a couple years back and it seems like things are much the same today. In the mid-90's there was a push for these in the hydro/pot community, and it seems to come up again every 5 years or so.

The people who were trying to market these to gardeners made claims of 5 year warranties just like many of the HID manufactures were offering. They also made claims of super fast growth which are somewhat true, especially if you use Calcium Bromide sulfur lamps. Sounded too good to be true... so of course, it was!

First I should explain how these work for everybody. Basically you've got a golf ball sized hollow quartz ball filled with argon and sulfur (& maybe CaBr2). This sphere is attached to a crystal rod, which in turn, is attached to a motor. The motor spins the rod and quartz ball at a speed appropriate for the wattage of the unit (2800 rpm for 1100w model... i think). Once up to speed, microwaves are sent through the ball. The microwaves excite the sulfur causing it to glow.

Bulb life is extremely long IF... and this is a big "if"... the motor doesn't stop while the microwave is on. If this little ball stops spinning while it's hot, then lights out... the fraggin' thing melts instantly!

Several companies have tried to make this product effective and marketable... with mild success. The USA Hill Air Force Base & National Air and Space Museum in Washington, D.C. both use sulfur plasma, because a single plasma light and 3M "Light Tube" could replace up to 27 HID lights. 3M used to manufacture a "Light Tube" which evenly distributed the light up to 40 meters. I contacted 3M, but only one guy there even remembered what the project was, and he said they've since been re-purposed. But those light tubes wouldn't really help us growers much anyway. Except those with exceptionally large veg rooms (like big-time breeders).

The product keeps failing and here's why: their motors and microwave emitters are simply not reliable enough. Compared to the magnetic ballasts used today in the industry, they simply aren't a cost effective choice... regardless of spectrum or intensity... who wants to replace their motor every 3-6 months!?

So when the few hydro shops/suppliers who took a chance on the new technology got too many returns for the plasma company to replace, everyone got pissed because they had no real warranty at all. Needless to say, that company went belly up, and the whole hydro community wrote the idea of sulfur plasma off entirely.

I still wanted to try them out... but then I heard they work at 2.4kHz which is the Wi-Fi band... so they can mess up your internet/cable pretty bad unless you shield them in a metal case... which means you can't use the light as directly. But what ultimately stopped me from trying these was just the thought of having so many MICROWAVES floating through my garden while I work in it.

In a perfect world maybe these are the lights of the future, but I'd put my money on LED's to take that title eventually. Eventually :)
 
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whazzup

Member
sorry for bumping but plasma lights have evolved over the years. Luxims LEP is a solid state technology, no more moving parts. I demonstrated them to Shanti and Howard at the Spannabis, he has already seen them at work at flowery field in Austria where they have dramatically improved their cuttings production with plasma lighting.

It is quite simple:

The sun alike spectrum of 300W LEP is great for vegetative growth, nothing beats it there. For generative development you need more efficient red (and infrared) that the HPS is providing much more efficiently (HPS hardly makes any blue photons). HPS is up to 2 micromoles per Watt, plasma is 1 micromole per Watt. The combination of plasma and HPS in flowering keeps your plants green and healthy (right until the end), influences the morphology of the plant, initiates earlier trichome development and enhanced the flavonoids and terpenes in the plant. There are many grow reports available on the net already.

If you look just at yield, you can easily calculate that, by light only, a plasma unit pays back within 2 grow cycles and I am not even counting quality there. Let's face it: We don't grow lettuce under these lights ;).

compare it to a greenhouse: in order to grow healthy plants you need sunlight. When you do not have enough sunlight you add HPS, which is the most effective lamp for making photons. A common rule in greenhouses is that you need at least 5-10% of blue light. Indoor you obviously do not have sunlight, you can add that with a plasma unit.
 
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Joe King Park

Active member
Plasma Good For Lettuce But Not Cannabis

sorry for bumping but plasma lights have evolved over the years. Luxims LEP is a solid state technology, no more moving parts. I demonstrated them to Shanti and Howard at the Spannabis, he has already seen them at work at flowery field in Austria where they have dramatically improved their cuttings production with plasma lighting.

It is quite simple:

The sun alike spectrum of 300W LEP is great for vegetative growth, nothing beats it there. For generative development you need more efficient red (and infrared) that the HPS is providing much more efficiently (HPS hardly makes any blue photons). HPS is up to 2 micromoles per Watt, plasma is 1 micromole per Watt. The combination of plasma and HPS in flowering keeps your plants green and healthy (right until the end), influences the morphology of the plant, initiates earlier trichome development and enhanced the flavonoids and terpenes in the plant. There are many grow reports available on the net already.

If you look just at yield, you can easily calculate that, by light only, a plasma unit pays back within 2 grow cycles and I am not even counting quality there. Let's face it: We don't grow lettuce under these lights ;).

compare it to a greenhouse: in order to grow healthy plants you need sunlight. When you do not have enough sunlight you add HPS, which is the most effective lamp for making photons. A common rule in greenhouses is that you need at least 5-10% of blue light. Indoor you obviously do not have sunlight, you can add that with a plasma unit.
If The Herbalizor Praises These L.E.P's , And Goes As Far As Saying These Lights Were So Impressive On A Recent Grow Of Casey Jones . Yield Was Up, As Was Resin Content.
Do Remember The Sulpher Plasma ( And The LPS, Or Low Pressure Sodiums ) Were Both Originally Designed As Street/ Outdoor Lighting. The LG Systems Designed Road Lighting That Sensed Approaching Cars And Would Light Up The Distance. The Lights Passed Would Automatically Switch Off After Traffic Passed ( Like The Old Turn Signals On My Old 68 Ford Cougar ):cool:
Once HPS Lamps Made Their Appearance , Low Pressure Halides Or Sodiums Fell Out Of Interest, In Favour For The Correct P.A.R Of HPS In Influencing Plant Growth.
Soon The Dutch ( And Phillips ) Developed The Agra Range Of Bulbs , Which Were Son T, Son T Plus And Son T Agro. The New Bulbs Were Found To Emmit Up To 70% More Lumens When The Bulbs Were Mounted Horizontaly:cool:
I Started Growing In 1982-83. In 82 I Was Using Fluorescants And Dirt. In 83 I Was Using 1000 Watt Osram ( Canada) Verticals On Chain Driven Lightmovers ( Clank,Clank)
I Thought O-L.E.D Lighting Would Have Been The Way Forward Til I Saw What L.E.P's Do
JKP
 

whazzup

Member
Yes you can grow under many lights including induction. It's like growing under cfl. Unfortunately the lamp shape is not very good for a reflector. I personally prefer T5: thinner tube, easy to reflect, intense light. As with any type of light you need to adapt to the specific properties of the light and source.
 

onavelzy

New member
I have also been intrigued by the option of Light Emitting Plasma (LEP) for indoor growing. I did some reading in threads on different sites, looked at some of the company web sites etc. While the technology has great promise, it may not yet be a viable alternative to current options. I have no direct experience with the products so I welcome anyone with actual hands on experience to add in their insights.

the issues with LEP as I saw them:

1) LEP's seem to be expensive relative to HID and even LED, at least with respect to initial cost. It is a new technology and there are few vendors offering LEP in an indoor grow model. The LEP technology currently seems to being aiming mostly at the outdoor/street lighting market. Luxim, a maker mentioned in the post above, lists a few companies that use their product in a grow setting. one company, Chameleon, has a 300W model that lists for $995! that's the only price I could track down on one of these without directly calling a wholesaler.

2) I have read in threads on LEP that current devices were not initially designed for grow purposes and so have an light spectrum that has an inadequate red spectrum coverage (needed for flower). looking at the light curve shown on the Chameleon web site, that does appear to be the case, for that product at least. They show a product soon to be available that appears to be their "work around": they attach four red LED's to the side of the LEP. Other companies state their LEP has the closest approximation to the full spectrum of sunlight of any lights on the market for indoor/greenhouse growing.

3) I read on another MJ site that the bulb in an LEP light gets to a very high temp, 5000 degrees F. The poster stated bluntly that that kind of device has no place in a home grow. He felt the risk of a fire was too great if there was an accident. I cannot recall if the thread was for the sulfur plasma lights or for the modern solid state ones and I can't remember where i saw it so that issue probably should be taken with appropriate reservation for an unsupported claim

I don't know how much heat an LEP generates for the grow area. some of the web sites for LEP vendors recommend placing the lamps 8 - 12 inches above the canopy, so there can't be too much heat if that is the case.

I don't have any ax to grind, for or against LEP. I think it is a fascinating technology but it seems like it may not yet be a viable/competative option for indoor growing. for the greenhouse, maybe it could be. it comes down to cost and performance. Love to see a side by side by side comparison grow with LEP v LED v HID, looking at inital cost, energy cost of the grow and the outcome of the grow in terms of yield and quality.

if i am breaking any rules by putting that link to the light spectrum of the LEP, please let me know and/or take it down. not trying to promote anything or anyone, just wanted to illustrate a point
 
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Space Toker

New member
I saw a plasma lamp on the htg supply website for $1500! How much are the 1000W Gavita's? I saw quoted prices being prohibitively expensive in the past, but that 360 euro (about $500 currently) price seems too good to be true (unfortunately I cannot read German and the link for english does not seem to work for this item)! Plus, where do I get that price in the northeast US, preferably at a place I can go to (have no good mailing options at the moment to order online)? I mean, if they really can be put closer to the plants, and if the light intensity does not drop off as dramatically as with a regular HID, it may be worth it! (any info would be appreciated)
 

Space Toker

New member
like someone said, I'd like to see a comparison. For the hobbyist with money to spend, it may be worth it to them. For the really large commercial growers, any small increase in yield per lamp would pay the extra lamp cost off in a fairly short amount of time. What about the guy in the middle that would run 2-4 1000 watt lamps? Dollar for dollar costs on reflector replacement, initial lamp costs, electric costs, etc on the input end, versus total dollar (or euro or whatever currency you like) value on the output side (I think this factors both quality and yield into it and makes for a better comparison). Is it worth it for the small to mid size guy?
 

Space Toker

New member
oh, and are they souped up regular HID lamps or are they entirely different, like plasma lights? Are they plasma lights? I saw a generic plasma light at HTG Supply website for $1500! But heard people getting Gavitas for $500 or $550. Must be different.
 

APxRS

New member
I was considering getting a gavita plasma with the new (2014) full spectrum bulbs, I've seen the spectrum analysis and the red coming out of it blows away old supplemental plasmas AND HIDs and clocks in at only 270w. It looks fantastic.
I don't have unlimited money and we're talking not much change out of 1.5k per for these, so I'll probly just go to an HPS instead for about half the price BUT I'm sorely tempted and if I saw some grows I'd do it cos on paper these things K.I.L.L 1000w HPS.

Here, on the left is the new plasma full spectrum standalone bulb vs the old supplementary one, note the red:
41.01_41.02_spectrum_comparison_800px.jpg
 
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APxRS

New member
oh, and are they souped up regular HID lamps or are they entirely different, like plasma lights? Are they plasma lights? I saw a generic plasma light at HTG Supply website for $1500! But heard people getting Gavitas for $500 or $550. Must be different.
The gavita I'm going for is not far off that price range (HPS) but for the PLASMA gavitas basically triple that price.
 
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