NHS genetics.

Old Spice

New member
No, I am not EB.
Just someone who has been around this forum for ~10 years and went through all the same experiences he did here.
I respect Elmer for his obsession with cannabis genetics and history. He has a unique ability to put together puzzles from a fuzzy picture.
He has a track record of searching out and finding missing pieces of the puzzle.
It was EB that tracked down NL Seattle Greg from a tiny clue that Nevil left in a post here on MNS. He then persuaded Greg to share the entire Northern Lights story with him. A story that has never been published anywhere but in posts by Elmer.
That's passion.

He is tireless in his pursuit of information.
His analysis of what he gathers is keen, insightful, and hard to fool.
Finally, his retention of this info is unrivaled. Over the years I came to rely on him as an extension of my own memory.

Elmer is quite different from most other people you'll find in the community in these ways.
I'm not saying he is always right when it comes to canna history because he is human . . . but he usually is. I trust his process and obsession is something he will not or cannot change.

His confidence in this area seems to attract people who misunderstand him and want to challenge him on his ideas.
Like many other smart people though, EB likes a good argument. He's good at it and seems to see it as just another challenge or puzzle to solve. Like most Aussies I know, he has a stubborn refusal to quit or back down.
This is maybe the most frustrating part of being his friend, because even though he clearly seems to enjoy it, I see arguing with people like you Vlad as a complete waste of time and energy.
Just responding to your posts, I am rewarding you for being stupid, and because I get no pleasure from arguing with idiots or mentally ill people, it means I have in fact let you win.

Congratulations.

All of us come to the internet for information.
In the quest for that knowledge, we find a legacy of deception and vagueness that was common, maybe even necessary across the see industry in europe in the '90s and early 2000's.
The entire industry built on the practice of people stealing seeds and cuts from others, renaming the gear, knocking off F2's of your competition and claiming to have been the breeder of the original.
These practices spilled over into the forums and some seed houses sent trolls to the forums of their competitors to stir up trouble and cast doubt on the veracity of a breeders gear.

During those times, Shanti was trolled hard by Sensi and Greenhouse seeds people. To protect his position as the best EU seedhouse at the time, it was necessary for him to be clever about the information he released on his strains. I'm sure he meant nothing personal to the customers who bought it, but the more info Shanti released on his breeding work, the easier he made it for his competitors to copy it.
Loss of breeder stock, specific info on pedigrees, even selection traits were all closely held secrets that in his world were equal to the formula for Coca Cola or Colonel Sanders fried chicken recipe.

Fear of what the competition was doing and what they could do with information and a pack of your own product was multiplied by many general mis-perceptions about genetics and biology.
These were still "dark-ages" in cannabis science on the forums, just 10 years ago.
The legacy of that environment is what has left us where we are today at MNS.
Many things have changed since then, but sadly, many have stayed the same.
The game in Europe is still built on people stealing other breeders work, renaming it and claiming it as their own. Karma (from Karma Genetics) goes into surprisingly candid detail on what it was and (sadly) still is like in his interview on "the Potcast."

For the industry in the US, genetic transparency has come to be expected as the norm, and though there is still plenty of people taking credit for work that is not their own, it is in general a much healthier environment for hobby breeders who seek info to try to improve the gear they work through selection.

Shanti's business has grown so much that frankly he doesn't have time to mess around on the forums. Like any good businessman, he delegates work that can be done by others and focuses on the things that are most important to him.
There will never be a good time for Shanti to correct misinformation or fill-in the blanks on pedigrees that were necessary in the past for the survival of his business. It's just too risky to even admit that things like that were done because frankly, most people wouldn't understand why things like that might be necessary, and his competition might use it against him in marketing (honesty may be a virtue, but it is seldom rewarded as it should be.)

So . . . I WANT Shanti to correct all the pedigrees and answer the tough questions that are being asked. Only because smart, passionate, determined people like Elmer loved his gear enough to try an understand it better, and in the quest recognized where often the information given on the lines just didn't add up. Failing to do so can breed contempt where once there was love.

I WANT him to do this, but I DON'T expect him to.
I don't expect him to because I understand why he had to misrepresent certain things and understand that the reasons he had to do it still exist to a degree.

What is going on here in the forums is simply very low priority for him, but it has become enough of a distraction that he felt the forum needed mods again. The last time he did that, it was a horrible failure.
I am reserving my opinion on how that is working for him till it becomes clearer if the people he chose really understand the big picture or are capable to doing their jobs in the spirit that is required to accomplish Shanti's goals without burning down the house.

Seed sales are the foundation of his business, but Shanti's ventures span multiple continents now and I suspect if I could look at the books, I'd find the seed sales are less than 30% of total revenues. I hope I'm right about that because it means that Shanti has been WILDLY successful. The seeds sell themselves, running the seed business for him after all these years is about as demanding as setting up a roadside stand to sell the tomatoes and corn he grew in his back yard. There is no incentive for Shanti to do anything disruptive in his marketing.

Back to Jack's thread here . . .
What you are doing Vlad is the definition of trolling.
You follow Jack around wherever he posts and no matter what the topic of the thread might be, you start badgering him about what you are fixated on: his Kanga/Nev mullum seeds.

Jack's a friend of mine too.
He's paid a heavy price for his devotion to the plant under prohibition like many of us have and has come out the other side undaunted.
He's smart, funny, kind, generous, and loves the plant as much as I do.
He's one of a handful of non-Aussies that got the same seeds I did from the grail project when it happened. Strangely enough, I feel a connection with everyone that I know who got those seeds. There aren't many.

Vlad,
All members should be reporting your trolling posts against Jack to the mods, and if they were doing their jobs, you should have received a warning of some kind by now.
I don't know if we can count on that happening because I fear the mods might see people who try to get Shanti to share more info on the seeds they bought to be the enemy. It's a common misconception, and if they feel that way about Jack (or me for that matter) then they may be happy to let your actions go unchecked.

I prefer an unmoderated MNS forum, but with the right people on the job, it might be a good thing. I am still hoping that our new Mods are those "right people."
 
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im undecided on that... i cant get in to specifics because the info was in a pm.

but lets just say that there may be a conspiracy believer among them.
and look how quick he was to praise vlad...
 

Vlad the Inhaler

Active member
No, I am not EB.
Just someone who has been around this forum for ~10 years and went through all the same experiences he did here.
I respect Elmer for his obsession with cannabis genetics and history. He has a unique ability to put together puzzles from a fuzzy picture.
He has a track record of searching out and finding missing pieces of the puzzle.
It was EB that tracked down NL Seattle Greg from a tiny clue that Nevil left in a post here on MNS. He then persuaded Greg to share the entire Northern Lights story with him. A story that has never been published anywhere but in posts by Elmer.
That's passion.

He is tireless in his pursuit of information.
His analysis of what he gathers is keen, insightful, and hard to fool.
Finally, his retention of this info is unrivaled. Over the years I came to rely on him as an extension of my own memory.

Elmer is quite different from most other people you'll find in the community in these ways.
I'm not saying he is always right when it comes to canna history because he is human . . . but he usually is. I trust his process and obsession is something he will not or cannot change.

His confidence in this area seems to attract people who misunderstand him and want to challenge him on his ideas.
Like many other smart people though, EB likes a good argument. He's good at it and seems to see it as just another challenge or puzzle to solve. Like most Aussies I know, he has a stubborn refusal to quit or back down.
This is maybe the most frustrating part of being his friend, because even though he clearly seems to enjoy it, I see arguing with people like you Vlad as a complete waste of time and energy.

Yeah, that's a sweet bromantic story there.

But do you have anything to add on NHS parents?.

The mother is a NL5*hzC.
The father an '88 skunk that is different genetics from the shit skunk line.
Cheers
 
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Vlad the Inhaler

Active member
Hi Jack.
Thanks for posting that info yesterday about the parents of NHS.
I couldn't find it again for ages.

Can you do the righty and post it here pls, so others can read it too
I can't link across threads unfortunately.
That stuff was kind of the reason for this thread.
Cheers mate
 

Pyran

New member
Hi everyone

heres a little info to correct the errors you posted about.

Hi All
NHS or National Health Service or NL5 Haze x Skunk uses the original selection of Nevilles NL5HazeC female to a rather strong skunk line from a batch of very old seed I selected from 1988. It was done well and hopefully the testers of this strain will show you all what is in the genes....I can tell you things but I prefer F1 seed to illustrate it grown independently by members here.All the best Sb

Hi All
the skunk line used is one from old Nev seed from a batch of 1988...I believe one he originally received from Sam when they were friendly. I cracked about 150 seeds and only got 5 plants to pop...of which all the girls were nothing special...but one of the boys seemed to show excellent genetic dominance with everything he was combined to ...so kept him in the wings for a long time and this was his first proper working inside a breed. I feel these two plants do it well together and well I hope to see it with the test grows....all the best Sb
NHS was the first strain from Mr Nice I grew, It was just released (I think or relatively new), and I had my seeds late 2009. I wanted to start with this one because of the lower percentage of haze compared to SSH or Mango (first Haze experience). More over, I wanted Jack Flash from Sensi, but I heard bad things about SensiSeeds, and the best place to find Haze genetics was here. SSH = Jack Herer, so NHS = Jack Flash. So I went with NHS. The info I had back then was the one quoted, female NL5xHazeC and an old Skunk from 88.

Few years after, I remember a picture of an NHS "straw" with the male being afghan Skunk. But I also remember some people had hermies with NHS (I think mine were too, very light sensitive) and MAYBE Shanti changed the male.

My two cents ;)

My beloved NHS #1, I miss her so much, amazing everything, potent, tasty, yieldy, I should search for her again!!



Hey Jack hairy, how would you describe the one you are looking for? NHS could be a good bet if there is no afghan in it.
 
well, it was a strong citrus fuelly kind of flavor.
by fuelly i mean it was like a vapor that almost burned your nose, not like gasoline or diesel, although they also have that kind of thing going.

it only took 67 days, was just like descriptions with tons of trichomes on the stalks of fan leaves even.

it seemed to take 3 weeks to initiate flowering, but then kept on pace with other 60 day type plants. this 3 week period led to a lot of stretch.
the buds were made up of foxtails that had nice density, so the buds overall had a nice yeild to them but a kind of unique delicate fluffy structure.

compared to SSH or mango or NH, i dont think i would want any more skunk in it.
generally its pretty dominant, and that info from shanti said as much about that particular skunk male.
although i dont discredit the possibility to get a skunk type plant with all the good things from nl and haze.
 

sensient

Well-known member
Hi guys, I have never grown out the NHS but have been interested in it since it was released. Reading this has renewed my interest in the line!.
Vlad...I can't help myself..."Very bromantick story"...hahaha. Its sounds like true love ; )
 

The Flea

Member
Hi all,
Did this question ever get a definitive answer?
I have a straw of NHS from the auctions last year that I was about to crack open yesterday when I read the label - NL#5/Haze X Afghan Skunk.
The strain description still has it as 'straight Skunk' but the straw has it slightly differently with the Afghan Skunk.
This was to be my next grow but I would like to know if the strain will now lean more to the indica side with the addition of Afghan Skunk as opposed to the 'straight Skunk'. Not a biggie but would like to know if possible.
Cheers,
TF.
 
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