New Bud Onset turning Purple/Gnarly. Totally Ruins Plants. Phosphorus Deficiency??

59lespaul

Member
My friend, and a friend on another forum are both experiencing this problem.

Its NOT COLD, or any kind of Burn.

Im thinking it may be a Cal/Mag/Phosphorus problem.

1 friend has been having this problem 4 years in a row. Lost hundreds of plants. They grow great in Veg, and as soon as they start to flower, they turn purple, and gnarly.
 

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Big Sur

Active member
Sounds like it could be broad of hemp mites. Look at them with a 30x scope or better. They are tiny. Not likely phosphate deficiency, unless you have super acidic soil. You can add super phosphate to test that theory. Or any high bloom liquid plant food that will have a high P content. Like Hawaiian Bud and Bloom, which is 5-50-17 (my brother swears by that stuff).

I grew Zac Purple/Bug Sur Holy and they turn purple just before blooming, even in heat. That is what they do, genetically. They throw purple flowers that bloom late and for a long time, being small at first. They needed to be allowed to bloom a long time and harvested in December.
 
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59lespaul

Member
No Mites.

Last night buddy gave them

Calcium Nitrate 15.0-0
4-20-39
0-52-34
Magnesium
2 x tsp each in 5 gallons water.

Im guessing its where theyre in grow pots, and were at first using granular fert, like a farmer.

19-19-19
0-0-60
Calcitic/Dolomite Lime
Kelp

The plants have used up all the fertilizer, and my buddy was a bit slow to feed them.

Its hard to feed them as weve had a huge amount of rain, and the pots get rained on, thus making him unable to feed regularly, as they cant be fed/watered because all of the rain.

All this moisture has both washed many/all of the nutrients out, along with the soil being wet, causing a PH problem, and also considering they also probably need more lime again, as they've been in the pots now for over 3 months. But the soil test good. 6.3, but is probably low on Calcium/Mag, which can also muck with the P uptake. So he gave them a good dose of everything

Im hoping he can get them a regular feeding. He should probably give them organic, and wouldn't be as reliant for them to dry out some, before feeding/watering with chemicals, but it is what it is for now.

But still would like opinions.
 

OGL1

Member
I’ve seen this a few times over the years but only a branch here or there on an otherwise healthy plant. Sorry I’m no help but curious what others think. Almost black/purple and a narrowing/deformation of the leaves in the instances I’ve seen.
 

59lespaul

Member
I’ve seen this a few times over the years but only a branch here or there on an otherwise healthy plant. Sorry I’m no help but curious what others think. Almost black/purple and a narrowing/deformation of the leaves in the instances I’ve seen.
Yep. Sounds like what my buddy has.

Ive also been alerted to a malady called.


Phytoplasma


Phytoplasmas are obligate bacterial parasites of plant phloem tissue and of the insect vectors that are involved in their plant-to-plant transmission. Phytoplasmas were discovered in 1967 by Japanese scientists who termed them mycoplasma-like organisms (MLOs).[2] Since their discovery, phytoplasmas have resisted all attempts at in vitro culture in any cell-free medium; routine cultivation in an artificial medium thus remains a major challenge. Although phytoplasmas have recently been reported to be grown in a specific artificial medium, experimental repetition has yet to be reported.[3] Phytoplasmas are characterized by the lack of a cell wall, a pleiomorphic or filamentous shape, a diameter normally less than 1 μm, and a very small genome.
Phytoplasmas are pathogens of agriculturally important plants, including coconut, sugarcane, and sandalwood, in which they cause a wide variety of symptoms ranging from mild yellowing to death. Phytoplasmas are most prevalent in tropical and subtropical regions. They are transmitted from plant to plant by vectors (normally sap-sucking insects such as leafhoppers) in which they both survive and replicate.
 

Vlad the Inhaler

Active member
No Mites.

Last night buddy gave them

Calcium Nitrate 15.0-0
4-20-39
0-52-34
Magnesium
2 x tsp each in 5 gallons water.

Im guessing its where theyre in grow pots, and were at first using granular fert, like a farmer.

19-19-19
0-0-60
Calcitic/Dolomite Lime
Kelp

The plants have used up all the fertilizer, and my buddy was a bit slow to feed them.

Its hard to feed them as weve had a huge amount of rain, and the pots get rained on, thus making him unable to feed regularly, as they cant be fed/watered because all of the rain.

All this moisture has both washed many/all of the nutrients out, along with the soil being wet, causing a PH problem, and also considering they also probably need more lime again, as they've been in the pots now for over 3 months. But the soil test good. 6.3, but is probably low on Calcium/Mag, which can also muck with the P uptake. So he gave them a good dose of everything

Im hoping he can get them a regular feeding. He should probably give them organic, and wouldn't be as reliant for them to dry out some, before feeding/watering with chemicals, but it is what it is for now.

But still would like opinions.

Hi. Hope it's worked out soon.
If it is cal:mag deficiency, would the other leaves show tip burn? Like mineral OD.
The plants look really nice. Until they don't.
Could it be botritis in the tip. From the rain.
 

Vlad the Inhaler

Active member
Calcium and magnesium are fairly mobile in the plant.
You would notice the deficiency lower down in the plant. Zinc lock out looks similar.
But those plants have hit the wall.
Good luck.
 

Big Sur

Active member
Nitrogen is highly soluble and will easily leach from the soil. Nitrogen is also highly mobile in plants, so they will move nitrogen to the new growth from the old leaves sacrificing them if they get low on nitrogen. Cannabis plants are heavy nitrogen feeders this time of year (in the northern hemisphere, anyway). P and K and iron are more fixed in soils, and may be bound by soils. They are also not as soluble. If you have acidic soil, phosphates become locked up by metals in the soil and will not be as available to the plant. In which case add super phosphate (or rock phosphate). Or some high P fert. If the soil is alkaline the soil will bind iron, and any iron in the soil will not be available to the plant. In which case you need to add chelated iron. Iron deficiency is indicated when new leaves turn yellow. Nitorgen deficiency is indicated when old leaves turn yellow. This is with any type of plant, not just Cannabis.
 

Joker

Active member
Wonder if it could be a boron issue but that causes bronzing not purpling...

I'd say ph issue. P locked out....lol. like big sur is getting at
 
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n2ishun

Active member
I've dealt with this before.
It's a soil level bacteria infecting the roots.
This worked for me but caution is needed.

Dilute chlorine bleach roughly 1/4 cup bleach to 1 gallon water.
Water the extreme outer areas of the plant where only some of the mixture will get to the plant itself.
You are trying to antibacteria the soil more than the plant.
The plant needs a bit of the mixture, but not much.
The problem is in the soil and that is what you should focus on.

Wait for about 2 days after using mix and then water the shit out of it to dilute the remaining bleach.
It may take a few more days but new growth should be normal.

Yer welcome
 

Elmer Bud

Banned
G `day

I would try Great White inoculate .
Helps fight soil bacteria and supports root health .

Thanks for sharin

EB .
 

59lespaul

Member
But its happening in many different locations, and only outdoors.

When we use Promix BX in Smart Pots, Outside, some of the plants still get the disease.

When we grow the same stuff, same soil inside 40 feet away, there never ever this blight. No bugs either.
We are in East Ky, and it happens in almost every location we plant. And it doesn't happen to all the plants, but the biggest majority it does.

Some think it is a Phytoplasmas disease brought on by bugs.
 

n2ishun

Active member
I've only seen it outdoors also.
When I grow outdoor it's usually straight into the ground and I only use containers for a (I'll never share the secret) stealth guerilla grow.

Try my suggestion on 1 plant.
The plant is ailing anyway, not like you're going to lose much if it doesn't work.....but what if it does eh?

But I do have to ask..
You have looked VERY close and are certain there are no bugs on the tops of the plants? Right?
 

59lespaul

Member
Theres no major bug damage, but there is some. Its said Phytoplasmas are carried by bugs. Mainly Leafhoppers and takes 40 days for symptoms, after infection.


But I also understand the logic in using your method on 1 plant.
 

musashi

Site Moderator
Staff member
Did your problem ever get resolved with the addition of nutrients? Have you considered a broad spectrum fungicide? I have had good luck with many suspect soil problems using a Streptomyces product called Actinovate. Good luck

Aloha
M
 

longball

Well-known member
"I’ve seen this a few times over the years but only a branch here or there on an otherwise healthy plant. Sorry I’m no help but curious what others think. Almost black/purple and a narrowing/deformation of the leaves in the instances I’ve seen."

We get this a bit here in the humid Northeast. Wondered what it is? In our case it is usually a bud site or part of a branch. We cut it off and are usually good to go. For us it is usually toward the bottom branches. Have not been able to make a connection to leaf hoppers and we have a ton of them. Some branches(toward the end of the branch) that get it look perfect, without a single bug bite. Other leaves/bud sites that are hard hit by leaf hoppers do not have it!

Not scientific evidence, just our observation of it. Always wondered what it was and what to do about it. So far has not been a big problem. Perhaps a potential big problem. Pictures above are exactly it. I was getting ready to post a picture up and ask.

Longball
 
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