neville's haze indoor, about flowering stretch

Arco

New member
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Hello !

i started to flower neville's haze cuttings, at 25 to 30 cm. What size could i expect them to be at harvest time at 16 weeks ?

then i didn't select this female specially for flowering time, but because she have very short internode and is quite resilient, so have connoisseurs of this strain any tips to estimate the right harvest time regarding trichomes appearance for a psychedelic / cerebral effect ?

I'm quite excited about this plant :p so really any interesting advice or tips will make my day :D
 
as nevil told me, wait for those glands to turn amber.
i think the plant he was referring to went about 80 days, and was not anything special.
but you cant tell that from pictures, only from smelling the plant in person.
so if you havent seen these cuts before, know that there is a chance for earlier plants.
that doesnt mean they will not be good, only that they will be earlier.
an earlier plant could be preferred as long as it still has the quality behind it.
might be a rare find though.

i think lighting will affect stretch, and maturity of the plant when it goes into flowering.
as a percentage, i flowered clones of my best nh (16 weeks) just as they rooted, and they went from about 4" to 16", so 400%.
i flowered the same cut at 3 weeks veg, maybe 2', and then they would finish about 6-7'
so closer to 300%. this was with pruning/topping, so a top will reach higher.
 

Arco

New member
thx Jack for your advice :)

how many plants did you grew to find your best cutting ?

i didn't topped this female to look at the final size
 

Broseidon

Member
My experience with sativas and heavy sativa leaning crosses is similar.

I would expect anywhere from 300-400% growth.

I have yet to see a sativa or sativa leaning hybrid that ends up below 3x the size it started. They really do stretch massively and people are serious when they say "flower directly from seedling if height is restricted" with these varieties.
On the flipside, Indicas and Indica leaning hybrids can "just" double in size and be done with it.

Must be a dream to grow outdoor.

Stay frosty Bro

Broseidon out
 
i started 5 seeds soon after receiving them.
2 males 3 females.
one female was interesting but a hermy,
one was sort of fast (80 days) and good density and resin, but bland flavor.
and the other one...well i just noticed there is a pick of it being used in the auction pics of NH. its the purple foxtailing big fluffy bud with the hps lighting. that stuff was pretty good. Thnking about it makes me want to get a few more packs and see what i can find.
 

Jaze

New member
hello guys, with a 300 to 400% stretch in flowering phase, what do you think is best ? 9 clones of 6-8 inches per square meter in 3 gallons pots when growing in soil ?
 
generally soil is cheap, seems best to use as large of containers as possible for the space you have. im sure 9 5 gallon buckets would fit.
height can be controlled with training and pruning, but it will still take some veg time to build a strong base, in order to have the plants actually yield well.
what i mean is you could have a tall skinny single stem plant that hits a certain height, but it will only have a few buds along its stem. with some plants that really like to stretch up, some effort may be needed to train/shape them to fill all the space they are given. this may require topping, which will temporarily slow the vertical growth and cause it to fill out around, but will also add more time in veg until a certain height is reached.
 

Broseidon

Member
It also depends on your phenotype.

Certain phenotypes of any given strain will grow very bushy and others stretchy and lanky.

In my current run of CM I have a few of each.
A couple are very tall and lanky and have lots of space between nodes as well as very little growth along those nodes.
A few others are more bushy, less node spacing etc. but they also do not "fill in" very much and would have to veg considerably longer to truly have a bushy, filled in canopy.
And then there is the keeper group, which has basically developed "bushiness" from bottom to top and basically "filled in" the space they had.

Since this is my first time with a single strain and larger number of plants, I flower all of them and reserve judgement for after.

But the tall/stretchy, lanky, skinny phenos would have to produce exceptional quality buds, flavors, aromas etc. that would really have to blow me away in order for me to keep them.
Because as jack said, just from their structure, you know they can only yield a fraction of what the keeper class can.
 

Arco

New member


so since 8 weeks the lady is flowering, i believe this will evolve ? it take a shape of ear of wheat :p
 

Arco

New member
It also depends on your phenotype.
...
But the tall/stretchy, lanky, skinny phenos would have to produce exceptional quality buds, flavors, aromas etc. that would really have to blow me away in order for me to keep them.
Because as jack said, just from their structure, you know they can only yield a fraction of what the keeper class can.


so this is the pheno that you talk about Broseidon :cool:

i liked this plant for the smelling print she did let on fingers when she was in vegetation. The smell is rare, with accent of fuel and shoe polish, exotic wood and spices. But yeah yield is not going to be extravagant.
 

Seed Collector

Active member
Once upon a time, The best cannabis I have ever had in my entire life was grown on a viney plant. it was layed down with it's sisters and they grew into a jungle.
There was a mouse in the basement of that house, and it could be seen that the mouse was nibbling a little bit from a bud over here and a little bit from a bud over there...

When the crop was completed and the plants were seperated, It turned out the mouse had only been nibbling from 1 plant. It could tell the difference between one particular plant and the rest, Even in those overcrowded conditions with 5 plants basically grown together as one.. It was really quite incredible :D

That bud was forever after named "mouse haze" . It looked almost exactly like the pictures you show. All of the buds from the strain just called "haze" were good but the other 4 had pointier buds. Mouse haze had buds I describe as monkey paws. All of the herb from those 5 plants was the best I have had, even to this day. but the mouse haze, with it's stacked calyx's just had an incredibly clear high with no ceiling, it was rocketfuel, It was 10-15% above it's siters and the real standout of the bunch

Anyway, I am VERY excited about the plant you show. It looks like the elusive plant I have been searching for almost 15 years. It looks the closest I've seen to that bud. It looks like the mouse haze :D

In my opinion stacked calyx's is where it's at. I would guess you have the "grail" on your hands here.

Good luck ;) :cool:
 

Broseidon

Member
Sounds good.

And just so there is no misunderstanding:
Stretchy/lanky phenos are not undesirable or anything.
They just can't yield as well as the bushier ones with shorter node-spacing etc. etc.
So they have to produce correspondingly superior quality to be a keeper.
If they produce the same quality of bud as the other phenos, you obviously take the better yielder.

That being said, just look at the whole OG Kush craze. These plants are not good yielders, they grow ugly and spindly and need a hell of a lot of support.
Yet people grow it, some of them only it.
Because they like the end product and see it as qualitatively superior.


In my own experience, it looks like some of the smaller, lanky/spindlier looking phenos that yielded less and also were otherwise not noteworthy in any way (shape/node spacing/vigor etc.) are going to be my keepers.
Because of the smell.
Some of the least desirable looking phenos seem to be providing me with the most berry terps out of all. Really what I was looking for in term of terpenes. Imagine a sweet, red wine with skunky undertones. That's about their smell, really nice.

Of course this evaluation could still change, yet again, after testing the cured product.


So what I'm getting at: No matter how they grow, look, yield, smell or whatever, ultimately, you can only judge after testing properly cured buds (in lieu of a laboratory, testing them with your own lungs etc. ;)).

So even though some of the "berry phenos" smell just like what I was searching, I still can't say I take them over other phenos because another might have the best combination out of terpenes, yield and potency.

That's why I also tend to grow out every runt.
Although I might get away from that method simply because I have so many seeds and can afford to aggressively cull runts.

But then again, the runt might produce the best herb ever...
 

Arco

New member


so here is the phenotype that gave me those wheat shaped buds :)

i had some interesting debates on facebook on a cannabis american group , many users told me it was foxtail. But even if i have elevated temperatures because hps lamp, it don't go over 27/28 degree c. One man said it remembered him the thaï weed from the 70', and i was thinking that make sense because the neville's haze is an inbreeding on haze, and haze is fathered by a thaï strain, so haze is originaly 50% thaï, and as it's two haze brothers that have been used for the nh, it's a consanguine crossing, minimum 12,5% inbreeded then perhaps this recessive phenotype appear in a small proportion

this is the story of neville's haze as i've understand it from internet sources:

in the begining of the 70', the haze brothers started to select sativa plants from seeds that sam the skunkman furnished to them, in the santa cruz area

a colombian and a mexican strain have been first crossed, then the bests females have been crossed with a south indiaan strain, and then the best females of that F2 with a Thaï male

Sam the skunkman is said having inbreed those batch produced by the haze brothers, selecting the best traits and sold the seeds under the label "cultivator choice" in the 80' in amsterdam

then Neville Schoenmakers, owner of the "seed bank" (that will become sensi seeds bank) did get pure haze seeds, did select male A, male C and female B

first outcross with northern light #5 with male A did gave nice results, and after the success of the super silver haze the neville's haze have been created by selecting a good female NL#5 x Hz and cross it with the male C

So in the end, following the informations, NH is 12,5% consanguine minimum, and his ancestry formula could be simple as that:

((thaï x (south india x (colombian x mexican))) x (((thaï x (south india (colombian x mexican)))x Northern light #5))


So if that pheno come from the Thaï and is recessive, in a punnet table there is two possibilities, or it appear on 1 plant on 8 if the original pheno came from a plant homozygote for that pheno, or 1 on 16 if the original plant was just carrier of that caracteristic, am i right ?

I had from a paquet two plants like her, the other was a male that i haven't keep, but 2 on 18, it's pretty close to 1 on 8 so maybe one plant with that pheno have been used by the haze brothers to create the original haze

I harvested almost all with 25% of amber trichomes, i just let one plant to get totally amber to check the difference :p





 
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Arco

New member
and about the stretch, the biggest plant that was 30 cm when switched to 12/12 is now 1,55 m, so the stretch was 400 to 500 % with my plants

(with a 600w hps dual spectrum lamp, veg 18/6 flo 12/12, hygro > 40%, 30w of UVB medical light, 20 deg C night and 28 max day, running water system using canna brand nutrients EC 1,5 to 1,8 and PH bring back at 5,5 once a day, soup changed every 10 days).

Maybe it's better to don't expose this strain on too strong UVB, mine did react badly (dry leaves) compared to a malawi gold
 
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