Nev. haze mango

leadplant

New member
If you have 100's of seeds you should do alright. I may have given the impression that great hazes dont exist. They do exist, but you need to run alot of seeds. No getting around that unless you get lucky with a pack - which does happen, but dont count on it. The addition of skunk and NL juices up the haze considerably and increases the odds of finding bona fide keepers which is the reason that mango haze seems to be preferrred over nevils haze. Flowering from cuts instead of seeds seems to help too. Also I hear alot about extra long cures making a huge difference in potency. I havent done 6 mos cures but have done 3 months and it wasnt a whole lot different potencywise - smoother and perhaps tastier yes.

I would strongly advise would be haze seekers to make an open pollination from their pack of seeds. The more packs you use, the better. Tom Hill recommends popping lots of haze seeds at a time and keeping only those veg plants that smell - before even getting to the flowering stage. That right there necessitates alot of seeds cuz hazes rarely smell much in veg and even in flower too quite often they dont smell much.

Thats where I'm at with it anyways - popping f2's. As for my nevils haze, I'm not thrilled with it but I'm gonna keep it because I like the smell it leaves in a room after smoking it. I call it the nostalgic smell, reminiscent of a leather or an antique shop. Thats the main attraction it has for me. Probably still good for crosses too even though its not that potent.
I am of the belief that potency is not a stable fixed trait anyways for the most part which allows for great progeny to occasionally come from just average parentage and vica versa.
Apple trees are the same way. Histroically most apples were not that sweet; didnt matter if both parents were sweet, the progeny usually was not sweet - only occasionally did you luck with a sweet apple which was then cloned massively. All the supermarket apple varieties are just elite clones. Apples are just like weed.

Run lots of seeds.

When I read these grow reports of folks running a few seeds at a time and finding greatness, I really have to wonder. How old is this person? How long have they been smoking? Youngsters get high more easily and are less able to judge true quality. On the other hand, oldsters such as myself have too high of a tolerance and only the very best will satisfy.

Placebo effect - some growers will go through a phase where they have convinced themselves that their own shit is great. These delusions can be persistant and only the test of time punctuated with a variety of reality checks can pop these fanciful bubbles. I think I went through this myself but now I cant deny it anymore. My nevils haze is just average at best, my search is not over, I need fresh genetics, and those genetics are going to be something besides MNS if I choose to buy some.
 

Batman

New member
^^^ great post

its true that its not easy to find a killer phenotype in pure haze lines, mango haze and super silver haze are easier lines to find hazy phenotypes( the phenotypes left are still very good too but more like NL and SK pheno)
mango haze is my favorite smoke since a few years but the high from a very good nevils haze phenotype is even better. pure haze is the ultimate haze in my opinion but the stretch, long flowering times, low yield and the rarity of AAAA pheno makes it a difficult line for the grower.

im surprised i never saw pure haze femenized seeds, it should be a interesting breeding project to do, pure haze are known to be intersexed trait free.
HHHF post about pure haze medicinal effect is very interesting and remind me that NL and SK add yield and lower the flowering times but dilute the high, thats where the skill of our knowned breeders take place.

the nevils mango seems as tricky as the nevils haze in the phenotype hunt department. :rolleyes:
 

scrubdog

New member
If you have 100's of seeds you should do alright. I may have given the impression that great hazes dont exist. They do exist, but you need to run alot of seeds. No getting around that unless you get lucky with a pack - which does happen, but dont count on it. The addition of skunk and NL juices up the haze considerably and increases the odds of finding bona fide keepers which is the reason that mango haze seems to be preferrred over nevils haze. Flowering from cuts instead of seeds seems to help too. Also I hear alot about extra long cures making a huge difference in potency. I havent done 6 mos cures but have done 3 months and it wasnt a whole lot different potencywise - smoother and perhaps tastier yes.

I would strongly advise would be haze seekers to make an open pollination from their pack of seeds. The more packs you use, the better. Tom Hill recommends popping lots of haze seeds at a time and keeping only those veg plants that smell - before even getting to the flowering stage. That right there necessitates alot of seeds cuz hazes rarely smell much in veg and even in flower too quite often they dont smell much.

Thats where I'm at with it anyways - popping f2's. As for my nevils haze, I'm not thrilled with it but I'm gonna keep it because I like the smell it leaves in a room after smoking it. I call it the nostalgic smell, reminiscent of a leather or an antique shop. Thats the main attraction it has for me. Probably still good for crosses too even though its not that potent.
I am of the belief that potency is not a stable fixed trait anyways for the most part which allows for great progeny to occasionally come from just average parentage and vica versa.
Apple trees are the same way. Histroically most apples were not that sweet; didnt matter if both parents were sweet, the progeny usually was not sweet - only occasionally did you luck with a sweet apple which was then cloned massively. All the supermarket apple varieties are just elite clones. Apples are just like weed.

Run lots of seeds.

When I read these grow reports of folks running a few seeds at a time and finding greatness, I really have to wonder. How old is this person? How long have they been smoking? Youngsters get high more easily and are less able to judge true quality. On the other hand, oldsters such as myself have too high of a tolerance and only the very best will satisfy.

Placebo effect - some growers will go through a phase where they have convinced themselves that their own shit is great. These delusions can be persistant and only the test of time punctuated with a variety of reality checks can pop these fanciful bubbles. I think I went through this myself but now I cant deny it anymore. My nevils haze is just average at best, my search is not over, I need fresh genetics, and those genetics are going to be something besides MNS if I choose to buy some.
Couldn't agree more though I'm not convinced there isn't something special amongst MNS strains. That's going by hearsay though. This season is my first serious grow of their strains.

Everything else you say is 100% accurate in all respects. I go through hundreds of plants, even thousands in the past, looking for killer potency and not finding it. After years of being bored by all the hybrids I mostly look amongst landraces now.

The apple thing is straightforward genetics. You can't get something from nothing. It's the law of the universe if you follow physics. It's recessive genes coming through is all. Like you can cross blue budgies for generations and just get blue budgies then one day you get a yellow one (called a throwback) which is a recessive trait coming through.

There are killer lines. I've grown weed years ago that I was too scared to smoke. Mostly I rave about sativas but this stuff was something else. It came from random bagseed and grew this stuff that was ridiculous. It had the strongest smell ever but the big thing was we couldn't dry it. No matter how long we hung it the stuff was still ridiculously wet and sticky and wouldn't burn in a joint. A couple of tokes and the paranoia was just off the scale.

Everybody who tried it was scared of it and it was like we had to dare people to smoke it as a challenge. Certainly not a pleasant experience but interesting.

I've said it many, many times on here and elsewhere (apart from the weird stuff I just mentioned) that all the most potent weed I've smoked in thirty years has been pure landrace sativa. I've never believed that crossing with indicas can increase potency. It cuts down size and flowering time and gives a bud some commercial bag appeal and some weight but also introduces increased chance of mould and botrytis.

I'm still investigating so called "Haze" lines. To date I have found them inferior in all regards to pure tropical landrace but it's early days yet and I have an open mind so time will tell.

scrubdog
 

JessE

New member
If you have 100's of seeds you should do alright. I may have given the impression that great hazes dont exist. They do exist, but you need to run alot of seeds. No getting around that unless you get lucky with a pack - which does happen, but dont count on it. The addition of skunk and NL juices up the haze considerably and increases the odds of finding bona fide keepers which is the reason that mango haze seems to be preferrred over nevils haze. Flowering from cuts instead of seeds seems to help too. Also I hear alot about extra long cures making a huge difference in potency. I havent done 6 mos cures but have done 3 months and it wasnt a whole lot different potencywise - smoother and perhaps tastier yes.

I would strongly advise would be haze seekers to make an open pollination from their pack of seeds. The more packs you use, the better. Tom Hill recommends popping lots of haze seeds at a time and keeping only those veg plants that smell - before even getting to the flowering stage. That right there necessitates alot of seeds cuz hazes rarely smell much in veg and even in flower too quite often they dont smell much.

Thats where I'm at with it anyways - popping f2's. As for my nevils haze, I'm not thrilled with it but I'm gonna keep it because I like the smell it leaves in a room after smoking it. I call it the nostalgic smell, reminiscent of a leather or an antique shop. Thats the main attraction it has for me. Probably still good for crosses too even though its not that potent.
I am of the belief that potency is not a stable fixed trait anyways for the most part which allows for great progeny to occasionally come from just average parentage and vica versa.
Apple trees are the same way. Histroically most apples were not that sweet; didnt matter if both parents were sweet, the progeny usually was not sweet - only occasionally did you luck with a sweet apple which was then cloned massively. All the supermarket apple varieties are just elite clones. Apples are just like weed.

Run lots of seeds.

When I read these grow reports of folks running a few seeds at a time and finding greatness, I really have to wonder. How old is this person? How long have they been smoking? Youngsters get high more easily and are less able to judge true quality. On the other hand, oldsters such as myself have too high of a tolerance and only the very best will satisfy.

Placebo effect - some growers will go through a phase where they have convinced themselves that their own shit is great. These delusions can be persistant and only the test of time punctuated with a variety of reality checks can pop these fanciful bubbles. I think I went through this myself but now I cant deny it anymore. My nevils haze is just average at best, my search is not over, I need fresh genetics, and those genetics are going to be something besides MNS if I choose to buy some.
Hi lead,
I could not help but notice your avatar, I've always loved clowns myself. They can be quite amusing, but sometimes you run across one who is none to funny and this may explain why some take exception to them? I dont know.

I would have to say my experience with most of the MNS haze hybrid lines is quite different than your own. Though I have not had the opportunity to try them all, such as the case with Nevilles Haze Mango, I have tried quite a few others and have found them by in large to be of exceptional quality. With few exceptions, MNS does not leave their commercially available lines to chance when it comes to quality. I have grown two packs of MNS Super Silver Haze and found exceptional specimens in both packs. Often times more than one as well. Such is the case with a majority of my runs with MNS Mango Haze, for which I have spent some years working this variety as well has having been an original test seed recipient well over a decade ago. I am also quite pleased with MNS Ash, a variety which I have found to be outstanding. There were some less than desirable specimens found, but I found two very acceptable cultivars within the line and could not be happier with the results to be honest. A truly remarkable line and quite well priced I might add.

I have often times noted the confusion among the community when it comes to open pollination, and while this is an excellent start to preservation it would not be my recommendation for those looking to continue to suss out quality varieties within the next generation. Quite the contrary in fact. If the desire is to continue a hunt for a quality specimen in the proceeding generation you would be best suited to select what you, the cultivator, feel is the best male(s) to go with the best female or females within the line. Progeny testing can go a long way in this process as well though it can be a bit laborious in having to run so many combinations. But if your goal is not preservation, but rather a narrowed down field of quality this is what I would recommend. Too continue interbreeding the varieties it would likely be an excellent idea to keep your selected parental lines for back crossing later down the line as well.

As you have noted, its not likely a matter of age of the smoker but the level of tolerance associated with the smoker themselves that can determine ones perceptions to potency. Sometimes you just do not find a keeper in a single pack, while it is not the majority of my experience with MNS lines its certainly a reality one could face. However its usually the exception, rather than the rule at MNS. Especially in terms of some of the more popular lines which have quite the reputation behind them.

So having been at these forums for over a decade, my honest experience with MNS varieties does not quite level up to your experience above and I would recommend working with more varieties if you're initially put off with your experience here which sounds to be the case. Of course the more specimens you have to work with, the greater your chances of finding a very impressive variety and some lines come with a greater chance of initial success than others. To date, I have not been happier with my experience with Shanti's lines other than my initial running of the Mango Haze test seed some years ago now. I have found some extraordinary plants within the Super Silver Haze lines as well, and believe a world of exploration and adventure awaits those who are willing to put the time in to find out just what all the fuss is about with these varieties.
 
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Skippy

New member
Guy-
Don't cheer down just... quite... yet.
Some phenos take a 3+ month cure to reveal their better natures. More than once I've had bud that was extremely meh shortly after drying, but went on to become a fave 3-6 months later. Sativas can be "demanding" both in flowering and curing time.

My long vegging NhM is just now beginning her stretch.


Hey, do you or anyone else know the actual science involved to make this happen? I've never noticed herb getting stronger with a cure but then maybe I'm just medicating the right amount to get the desired result, and so maybe not noticing using less as it cures. Everything degrades once dead, the compounds that make up cannabis included, so I'd love to understand how this comes to be.
 

Ohthatguy8

New member
I think my problem was going for the long flowering haze strains first and small selections at that. I read going in that its a tough task to pheno hunt neville haze but the reward is worth it. After a self assesment I realized I needed to work with super silver haze and mango haze first. I have a pack of super silver as well as a pack of mango haze inbred generation but to be sure I found a nice representation of mango haze I bought a cleaning pack. I had to scrap everything 6 weeks ago and am just getting back up and running so I started with some faster strains in first. but will be back on the haze hunt soon
 

leadplant

New member
I guess I sound pretty put off eh? Yeah, maybe a bit but I not doing anything close to dissing the whole MNS brand or anything like that.
I'm talking specifically about the 2 most extreme hazes in the lineup: The only 2 MNS strains I have run: Nevils haze and Nevils Haze mango. I've been running these 2 strains exclusively now for close to 3 years. My selection process was quite conservative too in that I tried to run all girls multiple times with varying harvest sample times and I did not too readily give up on the girls and cull them. I am keenly aware of the differences between these two strains.

The Nevs haze mango pack was popped first. it was meant to serve as a "haze with training wheels" in order to prepare me for the later nevs haze run. The NHM showed quite a bit of variation. There were skunky stinkers in there along with non pungent haze aromas and luckily for me, the mango smell pheno which ended up being the keeper.

Next came the 3 packs of nevs haze. Quite a difference compared to the NHM, thats for sure. First, all the nevs girls smell is way different. No pungent stinkers at all. That comes from the skunk and nevs haze has no skunk. I was actually pleased with that discovery too. I prefer the more subtle haze aromas over the stanky smells. There were also some tropical fruit smells, metal shop smells, rootbeer fennel, woody, leather, hay, and no smell too. The rootbeer fennel girl became my keeper. The fennel smell is noticed only when breaking up the bud. When burned a very pleasing aftersmell is left behind which I like very much quite unlike any other bud that Ive experienced.

And thats where it stands atm. Nope, I didnt find any killer potency - OK/good yes, but not great. No sir.

The word "keeper" should be clarified as it pertains to the "keeper in every pack" slogan.
Keeper means good but not necesarily great. "A great keeper in every pack" would be a big exageration. No way. Again, I'm only talking about nevils haze and nevs haze mango here.

Sam the skunkman has stated that outstanding original hazes are 1 in a 100.
Nevil has stated that 1 in 20 nev haze girls are special.
I'm going to side with Sam on this one.
The addition of NL to haze might add some bass to the haze treble but if the treble aint there in the first place the NL doesnt make up for that. Thus the 1 in a 100 odds remain.

Which is why I maintain that you will have better odds of finding greatness with mango haze though arguably less hazy too. The skunk does a better job of making up for any potency deficiences caused by the haze component not being that 1 in a 100.

As for F2's and open pollinations - Yeah F1's are going to be more vigrous and robust but plenty of advanced growers say that interesting stuff is found in f2's.
I would theoreticaly agree that a 1 to 1 mating might be the most direct path to bottlenecking quality but can you really be sure that you picked the right 2 mates?
Do the 1 to 1 mating later on. Start off with an open pollination. I lean more to the Chimera view of preserving the genepool compared to nevils unshakeable belief in 1 to 1 matings.

I do fear the inbredness factor definetely. Thats why multiple packs are best when doing an OP. I have heard that as few as thirty siblings can be enough to maintian a reasonable semblance of the genetic diversity but of course the more the better.
Haze is a polyhybrid anyway. I would think that crossing a polyhybrid back to itself is not as bad as crossing a purer line back to itself - feel free to corrrect me on that as I'm not a breeder. History has pretty much shown, whatever the cause, that haze doesnt cross back to itself very well. I am hoping that my current f2's will buck that trend due to the 6.25% skunk. My f2's are NHM x NH resulting in: 6.25% skunk 25% NL and 68.75% haze. We'll see how that goes.
 

Marcus_in_the_Darkus

Well-known member
This is a good thread and I'm bringing it back up again to ask the question whether the OP may have overfed his plants causing the final product to be lackluster. No offense to Ohthatguy8 (who hasn't logged in since 2016) but some of the mid-flower pics show a fair amount of burned leaf tips. I've read elsewhere on this site how important it is to avoid overfeeding hazes, suggesting that doing so can seriously degrade the final product. Is that what happened here?
 

PlantManBee

Well-known member
I only had 1 female. She went 13 weeks with a 9/15 light schedule , was healthy and pretty weak potency and odor wise. BIG selection numbers are in order to find keepers IMO.

Good luck :)
 

Elmer Bud

Banned
G `day @Shantibaba

Is the male in the Nevil`s Haze / Mango a NL / Hz / Sk ?
I understand you found a male that passes on Mango terps in the NHS line .

Thanks for sharin

EB .
 
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