Mark grows some MNS Nev's crosses


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I agree with you the plant dis-similarities could be due to the outcrossed GW vs the more inbred NHM. But I still think they are different moms. Another big difference in the plants is the rate of occurrence of intersex traits: 3/4 GW plants vs 1:3 NHM plants. Suggests to me the GW mom is a bit wilder, more feral.
Yes, certainly they could have different Mom's. The potential number of different NevHaze F1s that Shanti holds is limited only by the number of Nevil's Haze seed he kept hold of from the 90s. I assume he had plenty.


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At 12.5 weeks I harvested GW3, the GW7 seed plant and half of the clone, and the biggest of 4 colas from NHM3. Yesterday, at 99 days, I chopped everything else. Here are some thoughts on these plants.

GW2 was chopped at 14 weeks and I haven't smoked any since a 10-week sample, which I found to be strong but muddled high, so the jury is out on the effect of GW2 for a few more weeks while it dries and cures. It threw a fair number of nanners from F60 onward but that may be my environment. It swelled up massively as I had hoped, and produced a couple 2-liter-bottle-sized colas. Very resinous...probably the frostiest plant of the bunch.

GW3 was the star of the show IME. She won me the Bud of the Month (thanks, guys!) with her beautiful stacked calyxes and sativa structure. Despite the airy sparse sativa bud structure GW3 yielded pretty well, as I got 93 g from the seed plant. The effect is off the charts good. One toke in the AM and I'm like a tweaker all day getting shit done. Give it 5 hours and it'll eventually wear off with a super easy come down. If you toke all day at a heavier dose it'll eventually catch up with you and drag you down like any weed will, but if you moderate your dose the effects are clear headed, social, euphoric and energizing. I'll be careful about letting inexperienced tokers share this stuff, because I've detected hints of anxiety. Here's an interesting example: I was in a car and had just taken two tokes for our long drive. It was a beautiful spring day with a crystal clear azure sky, and I put on my Maui Jim sunglasses. As you know, polarized sunglasses increase the chroma of the colors we see, and just as I put them on we were passed by a new red pickup truck. The brilliant red color of that truck in the bright sun against the blue sky and green grass actually startled me. I've never been startled by a color before, and it's a pretty fucking cool effect I think. At higher doses it could be shamanic. I haven't explored that yet. This sample I smoked was a 10-week sample; it'll be interesting to see the difference in the GW3 that I took at 12.5 weeks. It's all jarred up and curing right now and the buds were fairly easy to trim and are so beautiful and unique looking! Tiny trichs, super sticky, and little chains of frosty calzxes with very little leaf. Not much in the trim bin either, but what's there is extremely frosty and will make nice hash.

GW7 yielded really well...I got 180 g from the seed plant alone. It's definitely the most widow influenced, with a strong initial rush after a toke, a good strong high but not as long lasting as GW3. bit of a sour, acrid smell up front with an incensy back end that translates into smoke that tastes good even before a proper cure. Smells funky, tastes good, really potent and the high is social and a bit trippy.

NHM2 has not been sampled yet but I've already discarded the clone because the yields were so low (I expect less than an ounce) and there's so much leaf on the buds. They are quite frosty and the smell is great, sweet haze, lime, pine, mango, floral.

NHM3 has a nice smell like NHM1 and the effect is potent, euphoric and clear-headed. Very nice weed to smoke and I'm really looking forward to the flavor after a proper cure. I'd love to explore the more sativa leaning plants in this line, but I didn't get one this grow.

This post has been brought to you by GW3 (the 10-week sample).
not to get too sidetracked on off topic pedigree info,

but that quote up there by CF, from shanti, is really quite confusing.

all this time, we have been told that SSH and Mango Haze have the same father, (skunk x Haze C), just different mothers (NL5xHzC#1 also known as C5, and NL5xHzC#122).
shanti says everything is made just as it always was.
nevil selected the male he used for SSH.
here, shanti is saying he selected the male used for mango haze in 2001.
both cannot be correct.

unless he is talking about the mango haze inbred, which of course we realize would be inbred and not original f-1's of NL5HzC x SkunkHzC using plants both selected by nevil.
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Awesome report man, makes me want to open my straw.. hope 2 doesn't cure and smoke how it sounds like it's possibly going to, the smoke you've been searching your smoking life for lol
well, we have always been told SSH and Mango Haze are like sister strains.
the mothers are sisters and they share the same dad.
we have been told mango haze is (NL5hzC122) x (Skunk x HzC)
that would mean to me that 122 is the mother.
otherwise, why not say mango originally came from (NL5hzC122) x (Skunk x HzC) and then was inbred, if that is what really happened?


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A bird in hand...

In this case, NHM bottled 11/17. Not as hard hitting as 6/16 NL5/Hz but euphoric, clear, energetic. Happy stuff, tho not as amnesia inducing as the NL5/Hz. It is my go to right now. Can I be absolutely sure of the derivation? No one can. I can tell you that it’s good shit as far as I’m concerned. Absolute best shit? According to who, what, where, when? Been smoking fairly consistently since the early sixties. Do I believe the tyros and pseudo breeders who came on the scene in the last 15 years telling me what it was like 40 years ago? Nope. It all comes and goes.
IMJ, anyone who can’t enjoy this time of incredible abundance because they are hung up on stories of the “more awesome” past which is filled with lies and hubris is a fool in my book. Old rastafari saying, “Lets smoke this shit!”

I just want clarity and the truth.
much of it doesnt matter to us right now.
but if we cant get this stuff straight now,
what do you think people will be left with 50-100 years from now,
when every breeder you know is long gone, and all we have left is information
left by them and hopefully the genetics they put so much work into?

Im getting ready to send in payment for some auction wins. multiple packs of some.
Nevilles Haze
Mango Haze
Nevilles Haze x Mango
Super Silver Haze
Skunk haze
La Nina
and Spice and Shark Shock just to try a little of something else.

So dont think for a second that little discrepancies in pedigree are stopping me from enjoying what is available.
but I also have my own experiences with top quality herb and i would like to find something that is at least as good if not better.


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Hey braddah, “good if not better” - it is all too subjective and variable to pin down. Comes down to personal preference which changes over time. Our definitions are not always the same- some ppl still call blue dream a sativa.
But shaka brah, you are right on with your selections. Great choices and hope you find something to your liking. I did.

Cool runnings


Well-known member
I just finished trimming up the last of this grow, and it's curing nicely. Been smoking and enjoying all of it. Detailed smoke reports to follow after a better cure, but here's how the yields turned out.

GW2: 14 weeks, 139 g​
GW3: 12 weeks, 93 g​
GW7: 12 weeks, 179 g​
GW7c: 12-14 weeks, 158 g​
NHM2: 14 weeks, 23 g​
NHM3: 12-14 weeks, 64 g​

So I got 1.5 lb and did 1.1 g/W on this grow, a new personal best and pretty good for a pheno hunt. I knew GW7 was going to be the big yielder; I got 12 ounces from two plants in 4-gal hempy buckets. I'm not happy that I managed to burn the leaves late in flower but the smoke is first rate and I have a lot of it!


Thanks for documenting this grow Marc. Great job growing the plants too bro. Those COB’s in the right hands really kick ass.


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Hey Marcus great job! Loved the grow and appreciate the time you took to document it. Hope you like the NHM as much as I do.

Cool runnings


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Hey Fish,

I like the high of the Grail Widow better, but the smell and flavor of the NHM are arguably better. Definitely that floral mango thing coming through in the NHM, although GW7 has some really nice dankness that I assume comes from the widow side. The effect and potency of NHM is good, but I find GW more energetic and clear-headed, and a little less potent than the GW. These were NL5-leaning phenos and I'd love to see what a haze-leaning NHM could do. Thefoetous had started a good-sized NHM selection run and he had GW on deck, but he hasn't been here for a while. I'll bet he's found some nice sat leaners.


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On August 27 I put four rooted Grail Widow F2 clones in the flower tent. These were made from my GW3 female x GW1 male. GW311 looks stunted but it's not the plant's fault, the cutting I took had some sort of caterpillar or something that spun some silk threads around the top of the plant sticking leaves together and stunting growth until I nipped it off. GW314 is definitely a male and a fairly early flowering one at that, with the stongest sativa leaning structure. I'm going to keep an eye on resin development on this plant and will collect as much pollen as I can from the seed plant which is flowering outside.

I thoroughly enjoyed my Grail Widow grow and the F2s may be even more fun!



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Happy Thanksgiving to all my brethren at MNS! A uniquely (North) American holiday, and my favorite because it involves food, family and football!

Herewith an update on the Grail Widow F2s that I grew out. Per the above post, I flowered four GW F2s and got two males (#1 and #4) and two females (#2 and #3). I put some pictures of male GW314 in the male photo thread and am going to test his progeny because he had extremely skinny leaves, flowered early, had a hollow stem, and was the most resinous male I've come across in two years of growing. Of the females, #2 had a low calyx/leaf ratio and little aroma, so I harvested it at 12 weeks, and am unlikely to keep the clone going unless the smoke is outstanding. The GW313 female looks to be an outstanding plant, and I'm very excited for the test smoke. She's going to be a good yielder, as I expect at least 4 oz of dried bud from her, nice bud structure, and the aromas are outstanding - piney citrus haze with a floral/nutty finish. Lots of resin - a really nice looking sativa leaning hybrid. She's taking up more than her fair share of space in the tent but I'm probably let her go another one week, possibly two, and harvest at 13-14 weeks. Here are a couple pics...

I had to train the shit out of this plant and here she is at 12+ weeks:

Here's the main cola:



Damn Marcus, she looks beautiful. And I hope the high is just as satisfying. Made my way back on here after a several month break, and this thread is a nice welcome back gift. My grail widow seeds are calling to be sprouted, and that pic makes them even more appealing...


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I have a love hate with that pic Marcus... I had pollinated some branches and due to that pic, harvested seeds week or so early, excited to pop and see, stuffed everything up with lifeless birdfeed...
Its absolutely beautiful and inspiring man...