Mark grows some MNS Nev's crosses

blowingupjake

Mothership Mod
Wow!!

Dude, GW2 and GW3 are super sexy!
Absolutely outstanding show. I can't wait to see how you finish these. Great work man.


Stay hazed
Jake
 

Marcus_in_the_Darkus

Well-known member
Thanks Jake! I appreciate that, and I'm digging this grow.

Love those little leaf nugs. I always thought gw2 was the best, and I am not surprised. Nice sativa look, foxtailing, leaf nugs you can seed, doesn’t hermies from strange light cycles, good smell description... seems like a pretty obvious keeper to me :)
Yeah, I hope GW2 smokes as good as she looks, and she looks to be my first keeper. I also hope that GW2 and GW3 just swell massively over the next 6 weeks and give me good yields, because they're still pretty sparse. GW2 has thick branches in the colas which tells me she's gearing up to add mass. Even if they remain sparse I'll be happy if the smoke is as good as I've read.
 

Byorn

Active member
Looking good there Mark. GW3 is lovely to see!

i also like the NHM you got! to bad they are a bit smaller than the GW but none the less i`m curious what they will become. I have good experiences with mango haze and wonder what NH brings to the mix.

google: "Noreaster" is a macro-scale cyclone. Ah learned someting today!
:cool:
 

Marcus_in_the_Darkus

Well-known member
@Byorn, we've had three Noreasters in two weeks and there is 1 meter of snow on the ground in my yard! Early spring rarely happens in New England but technically it's still winter for another week. I have learned that there were two separate power outages while I was away, so GW3 is forgiven for throwing a few nanners. :)

@CannaFish, I appreciate your kind words. When I refer to F40, F50, etc. I'm referring the the number of days that have passed since I switched to 12/12 light cycle. Tonight I will pollinate that little leaf bud to see if I can get seed from it and test your hypothesis. Although I thought I read in RC Clarke's Marijuana Botany that leaf buds were sterile. I'll let you know what happens.
 

Marcus_in_the_Darkus

Well-known member
@CannaFish, the pistils on the leaf bud also dried up and went brown before the rest of the plant. It was too late to pollinate the little leaf nug, so I harvested it instead. Preliminary smoke report next week. :)

@wwwwww, looks like another noreaster coming next week with a good chance for "plowable" snow again. Power here stayed on through the one earlier this week because the snow here was fluffy. It's the ice storms I worry most about. We had a big one in this area about 10 years ago and a friend was without power for 26 days. He was incredibly relieved when it finally came back.
 

hesh

New member
Marcus, great thread, those GW are looking excellent. I've been scheming to pop some of those next but tempted by the two NHM packs I've got as well. Excited to see how yours turn out along with a smoke report. Thanks for sharin' your progress.
 

Marcus_in_the_Darkus

Well-known member
~ 8 weeks

@hesh, thanks for the props! Here's a quick, preliminary smoke report for you, as I've sampled two of the plants so far. I dried the tiny buds from GW8, the plant that went full hermie on me at 6 weeks. The taste is nothing, as you can imagine, but the effect is potent, even at 6 weeks. After smoking it I immediately want to get up and do something. Provides a good bit of motivation and two tokes is plenty to get me buzzed. I have also smoked the tiny "leaf nug" that i picked from GW2 last week. It was enough for only two hits, which I took before I went to bed after a long day that involved lots of cross-country skiing, sex, eating and drinking. I was exhausted, but I could feel my heartbeat accelerate right after I toked the Grail Widow. Despite the long day, a full meal and two big-ass martinis, I no longer wanted to sleep so I stayed up and did some reading. The words "cerebral" and "clarity" bounced around in my brain as I tried to characterize the high. Not at all debilitating or stupefying. Real nice glow. I don't know how long the buzz lasted but I went to sleep about two hours later than I should have. Based on my limited, preliminary experience with seriously immature buds, it looks like the Grail Widow will live up to its reputation and hopefully give me what I've been looking for. I'm really psyched about these plants and looking forward to smoking some properly finished and cured bud.

OK, it's time for a full update at F58 (~ 8 weeks). Here's the executive summary.



GW2 at F58. She's still my favorite plant and the upper colas are slowly and steadily swelling. I still think she's going to go 14 weeks.
The smell starts with a sour camphor-astringent that fades to a floral incense. I found two small nanners which I attribute to two power outages over a two-day period that interrupted the light cycle. We have another Noreaster coming tomorrow with 6"-12" of wet heavy snow forecast here so there may be more power interruptions.



GW2 cola at F58. The pistils in the main colas are still white/creamy (except for that funny little patch of brick-colored pistils), although the pistils in the lower buds are reddish. Looks like the lower buds are more mature, so maybe I'll clip and dry one each week so I can see how the effect develops as the buds ripen.



GW3 at F58. Odor starts out as pungent sour haze, then lime, then floral. I think this one will go 12-13 weeks. This plant doesn't appear to be swelling as much as GW2, and I don't think it's going to yield a lot.



GW3 flower at F58. Gorgeous. Gotta love those stacked calyxes and foxtailed leaves in the colas. I call it a very porous cola, it's like a skeleton with the bones made of stacked calyxes and you can kinda see through it.



GW7 seed plant at F58. Odor starts out as something sour on top of peanut butter, then fades to a beautiful sweet incense. Man, I love how this plant looks to be a good yielder. Bud morphology definitely toward the widow side of the spectrum. The upper colas have white/cream pistils while the lower buds have more reddish pistils. Best guess is this is a 12-week plant, maybe more due to all the white pistils.



GW7c clone at F58.



GW7 cola at F58.



GW7c main cola at F58. This thing is enormous. Perilously close to one of the COBs but seems to be happy there.



NHM 2 at F58. Highly resinous runt of the litter with a beautiful odor of lime, pine and sweet haze. The NHM plants lack the acrid smell of the GW plants and I think will taste incredible. This one has leaves and even a few calyxes that are getting purple, probably due to low temps (59F) in the tent during lights off.



NHM 2 flower at F58. Dense, small buds, but very resinous and fantastic smell.


NHM3 at F58. Similar smell as NHM2 but more faint. Pretty good yielder for it's size, as the colas continue to swell. I did something this plant didn't like as a lot of the leaves are brown and crunchy. Could be the fact that this pot has reused coco.



NHM3 cola at F58. Lots of foxtailing going on.
 
Last edited:

kief420

Member
These sativas can be tricky to grow and put out some obstacles at you, nute sensitive, keeping the size small , long flower times you do a awesome job growing them and they are looking very good
 

Marcus_in_the_Darkus

Well-known member
Thanks for your kind words, @kief420 and @thefoetus. More preliminary smoke reports follow.

This is my favorite part of the grow, with smells and flavors fully developed yet still changing and becoming more complex, as the buds ripen and as I take little samples to smoke. The smoke from the 8-week (way too early) bud from GW2 is potent and initially euphoric, but I felt it was somewhat disorienting and lethargic. I'll bet she improves a lot by 12 weeks.

I harvested a little bud from GW3 and from GW7 at ~9 weeks, and set them on top of my baseboard heater to quick dry for a couple days. After sampling GW3 before lunch today I can tell you that it is easily the most potent smoke I've grown, and among the most potent I've smoked. I took two tokes from a pinch hitter about five hours ago and I'm still high! I even had a dentist appointment and a cavity drilled and filled during that period and I still have a buzz going! Holy shit!

I just now took a toke from GW7 and it hit me the same way...even tasted excellent despite the quick dry with no cure. I have a big smile on my face right now and I think I'll go take the dogs for a walk before it gets dark.
Wonderful, potent weed with an effect that I really like. Early indications are that GW7 smoke will be more social and giggly and trippy, while GW2 might be a bit more introspective. Both definitely showing a lot of influence from the world-class Neville's Haze mom, which seems to combine really well with the widow male in this cross. I think I'm going to have at least two keepers from this grow: GW3 and GW7.

Excellent flavor and effect at 9 weeks, with great yield potential from GW7. Only downside here is GW2 and GW3 have been making bananas the last couple weeks; I've probably picked off an average of 2/day per plant since my last update. Probably due to cold temps...down to 59F during lights out. GW7 has been rock solid though, and may also be the latest finishing plant. Everything in the tent will go > 12 weeks.

I'll have updated photos posted in a day or two.
 

Marcus_in_the_Darkus

Well-known member
~ 10 weeks

At 10 weeks things are looking pretty good. Wonderful smells, with the GW plants starting out with a sour smell that fades to incense and haze, and the NHM plants smelling sweeter. I changed the lights from 12/12 to 11/13, still with the far red flash. Maybe that helped calm GW2 and GW3 nanner factories down, as they've been behaving themselves since then. I've also managed to raise the minimum basement temp to about 64F. The plants are ripening from the bottom up, and most o f the trichomes are still clear with a few cloudy, so I think I have another 2-4 weeks.

GW2 at 10 weeks. Still adding bulk. Was throwing 2-3 nanners per day.



GW2 flower at 10 weeks. Still bulking up and developing great smells. Seriously resinous.



GW3 at 10 weeks. The haziest of the bunch, and the best, longest-lasting effect.



GW3 flower at 10 weeks. Nuthin' but calyxes and foxtails and resin. This one is getting entered in the Bud of the Month contest. :)


GW7 at 10 weeks. Smells start with a sour widow wand and then goes right to incense. The smoke was really flavorful even with a quick dry and no cure. Great effect with immediate head rush and smile. Not as long lasting as GW2 but very kind, friendly buzz with no crash. Not fussy to grow and no intersex issues. This one's a keeper.


GW7 flower at 10 weeks. Massive, sticky, smelly, potent buds. What's not to like?



GW7 clone at 10 weeks.



A smaller flower on the GW7 clone.



NHM2 at 10 weeks.



NHM2 flower at 10 weeks. I guess my two NHM females are NL5 leaning?



NHM3 at 10 weeks.



NHM3 flower at 10 weeks. This one's NOT going in the Bud of the Month contest, lol.
 

thefoetus

New member
Great photos, Marcus. You found some very special plants out of low seed numbers - perhaps you have the 'luck' Nevil spoke of :D

Do you have any final smoke reports? Is the GW better/different than NM?

I noticed GW3 had nanners removed at F50. Were they they good kind that grow on unpollonated, true females at the end of bloom?
 

Marcus_in_the_Darkus

Well-known member
~12 weeks

@thefoetus, I'd like to think I'm lucky, but I bet when you run ~40 of the Grail Widow seeds, you'll be hard pressed to select only one or two winners. Among your top selection (rejection) criteria should be to get rid of the plants that throw nanners, because 3/4 of my three female plants have been throwing them fairly regularly, with GW8 culled at 6 weeks due to massive hermage, while GW2 and GW3 have thrown nanners from F50 through today (F85). I'd say F50 is a bit early for end-of-crop hermage, but honestly I only have a year of experience growing, so I'm not an expert on the matter. I'm willing to give my plants and the strain the benefit of the doubt because lights-out temps have routinely been getting down to 59F, but I'd say I've plucked an average of 2 nanners per day each from GW2 and GW3. My environmental conditions are far from perfect, and because I grow for myself I don't mind the occasional seed, but this level of hermaphroditism would be unacceptable for a commercial crop.

Regarding smoke reports, this is all good potent stuff with a great, energetic sativa high, some (GW2) more so than others (NHM2). I can't comment on tastes or final smells yet because nothing's been cured yet. I will say the NHM is potent and that I like the effect even though I feel mine lean a bit more towards NL as opposed to the GW plants that lean more sativa in effect. I'll have final smoke reports in a month or two after a decent cure.

I also think the GW mother is different from, and better than, the NHM mother. I know I have a small sample size from which to make this judgement but the sativa really comes through better in the GW plants, while my NHM plants look fairly NL influenced to me.

Here's the 12-week update. I started flushing the plants about a week ago. They're getting close, but I've only seen a few cloudy trichs. The NHM plants are still showing mostly clear trichs. I think they'll all be done in another week or two. Smells are wonderful, with the GW plants starting out with an astringent bite that quickly fades to pine/lime/floral/incense smells. The NHM plants still smell sweeter and are giving me floral haze smells with lime and pine smells.

Here's GW2 at F86. Smell starts out as astringent then fades to floral/pine/lime. The main colas have swollen massively, even late in flower, and this plant looks to be a decent yielder. Still some whitish pistols on top, I think she has another week or two. Beautiful frost. The effect of GW2 is potent but a bit less clear and more muddled than the other two GW plants. Nanner issues.



GW2 cola at F86.



Here's GW3 at F86. Lime/pine/floral haze smells. This will be the smallest yielder of the GW plants but definitely the most potent, cleanest longest lasting effect. I find myself cleaning my house and organizing shit like a tweaker after I take a couple puffs. Nanner issues.


GW3 cola at F86. Fantastic calyx/leaf ratio and the strongest sativa leaner in the tent. Yep, there's a nanner on that cola.



Here's the GW7 seed plant at F86. Mostly cloudy trichs except the top of the colas. This plant and it's clone will probably get chopped next week. Smell still fades to incense after a sour/astringent start. Great yields expected.


GW7 cola at F86.



NHM2 at F86. Pretty poor yield but great sweet haze smells and a nice, energetic effect.


NHM2 flower at F86. Pretty small buds...I expect less than an ounce of dried bud from this plant.



NHM3 at F86. Turning out to be a decent yielder for its size. Never got around to staking up that cola which ended up flopping over under it's own weight. Similar smells as NHM2, with a similar but somewhat less potent buzz. Trichs still mostly clear.


NHM3 flower at F86.
 
Last edited:

alecky

Member
Hi Marcus you've got some lovely looking buds there! Great job you did with them. Disappointing too find a few male flowers but such is life. Enjoy your harvest and im looking forward too following your next grow.:D
 

thefoetus

New member
@thefoetus, I'd like to think I'm lucky, but I bet when you run ~40 of the Grail Widow seeds, you'll be hard pressed to select only one or two winners. Among your top selection (rejection) criteria should be to get rid of the plants that throw nanners, because 3/4 of my three female plants have been throwing them fairly regularly, with GW8 culled at 6 weeks due to massive hermage, while GW2 and GW3 have thrown nanners from F50 through today (F85). I'd say F50 is a bit early for end-of-crop hermage, but honestly I only have a year of experience growing, so I'm not an expert on the matter. I'm willing to give my plants and the strain the benefit of the doubt because lights-out temps have routinely been getting down to 59F, but I'd say I've plucked an average of 2 nanners per day each from GW2 and GW3. My environmental conditions are far from perfect, and because I grow for myself I don't mind the occasional seed, but this level of hermaphroditism would be unacceptable for a commercial crop.

Regarding smoke reports, this is all good potent stuff with a great, energetic sativa high, some (GW2) more so than others (NHM2). I can't comment on tastes or final smells yet because nothing's been cured yet. I will say the NHM is potent and that I like the effect even though I feel mine lean a bit more towards NL as opposed to the GW plants that lean more sativa in effect. I'll have final smoke reports in a month or two after a decent cure.

I also think the GW mother is different from, and better than, the NHM mother. I know I have a small sample size from which to make this judgement but the sativa really comes through better in the GW plants, while my NHM plants look fairly NL influenced to me.

Here's the 12-week update. I started flushing the plants about a week ago. They're getting close, but I've only seen a few cloudy trichs. The NHM plants are still showing mostly clear trichs. I think they'll all be done in another week or two. Smells are wonderful, with the GW plants starting out with an astringent bite that quickly fades to pine/lime/floral/incense smells. The NHM plants still smell sweeter and are giving me floral haze smells with lime and pine smells.

Here's GW2 at F86. Smell starts out as astringent then fades to floral/pine/lime. The main colas have swollen massively, even late in flower, and this plant looks to be a decent yielder. Still some whitish pistols on top, I think she has another week or two. Beautiful frost. The effect of GW2 is potent but a bit less clear and more muddled than the other two GW plants. Nanner issues.tely the most potent, cleanest longest lasting effect. I find myself cleaning my house and organizing shit like a tweaker after I take a couple puffs. Nanner issues.
Hi Marcus, thanks for sharing this update :) Yes we'll hope for similar luck. We will pay attention to nanners and remove any offenders from our selection.

"I also think the GW mother is different from, and better than, the NHM mother."

As I've come to understand it, the Grail Widow mother is Shanti's Nevil's Haze female, and the Nev's Mango mother is also a Nevil's Haze female. The fathers are said to be the Widow male and a male Mango Haze, respectively.
So maybe the GW is better because the Union of Widow to Nev's haze is better (more of an outcross?) than the marriage of NevHz x MangoHaze (more of a backcross / recombination of genetics?
 

Marcus_in_the_Darkus

Well-known member
Hey thefoetus. Aside from the physical differences between my (very limited sample of) GW and NHM plants, we have these two descriptions to consider:

[B said:
MNS NHM (Neville's Haze x Mango) strain description[/B]]The combination of these two plants awakens the appetite for even the most moderate user/grower of sativa based hybrids. The genetics making up this complex hybrid combine the two Haze males utilized by MNS. This seed is basically comprised of 12.5% skunk, 25% NL5, and 12.5%Haze A male, 50% Haze C male. The expected flowering time will vary considerably depending upon the chosen phenotype. Generally, it should be between 10-14 weeks with the possibility of slightly earlier if getting something towards the NL5 or Skunk side. Anything that goes beyond the 14 week marker in flowering is really not interesting as it becomes a difficult chore for a relatively low return. This plant will need to grow extensively, so it is essential to 12/12 (possibly even 10/14) light to night ratio, to force the onset of flowering. It is recommended to ensure the night time is very dark, as this will help force the plant to flower without compromise. It is very difficult to give an estimated yield here but one should be able to get an average of 450-500 grams per square meter. One might need to take the height of the growing area into consideration as this plant has the ability to grow for it. The aromas and taste of the finished product will be the most wonderful surprise for the growers and their hard work: it will be nothing less than superb. The effects will be cerebral and possibly a bit trippy so use the medicine well. This seed can be grown both indoors and outdoors but will need space and it will be hard to imagine it as a sea of green plant due to its sativa roots. It has the potential for a holy grail…can you find it?
[B said:
MNS GW (Neville's Haze x Widow) strain description[/B]]This has been a long time coming! Finally the Grail has been made available, but as limited edition only. The Grail combines the strong particular spicy/earthy aromas of Haze with the fruity oniony aromas of the Widow family. This particular Haze female has dominated genetics top shelf strains since modern times and combining it with the original Widow male, makes for a mouthwatering experience and a mind blowing journey into a body high with a mind of clarity.

This plant is not so difficult to get right but it definitely needs love and attention if you wish to get the Holy Grail of Stashes there will be a need to cure the dried flower for 6 weeks to 3 months prior to smoking it you will understand!
The vague (and misleading...where's the skunk?) NHM description is silent on both parents. On the other hand, the GW description calls out the particular mother plant and it sounds to me like an elite cut. Just because MNS has or had a NH mom as a breeding parent does not mean it is the same or even as good as some of the NH plants that came out of Nevil's earliest work that was preserved by others in Holland. Shanti has said he wanted to move away from breeding for potency only and focus more on medicine and terpenes when he left Holland for Switzerland. Maybe he used a kinder, gentler NH mom for MHM? There are also references on this forum to him being reluctant to release GW because it is too potent. When Nevil returned to the forum started the Grail search it was pretty clear growers wanted potency and effect from their grail haze, and it was to that end (and shortly afterward) that Shanti actually named the strain Grail Widow (or Widow Grail) , and used the best NH he could get his hands on, which was probably an old school cut and, I think, not the same one he had been using for NHM.

I think it's a weight-of-evidence thing, and I've seen enough to have formed an opinion, but it's still just speculation until such time as Shanti decides to weigh in on the matter.
 

Marcus_in_the_Darkus

Well-known member
As I've come to understand it, the Grail Widow mother is Shanti's Nevil's Haze female, and the Nev's Mango mother is also a Nevil's Haze female. The fathers are said to be the Widow male and a male Mango Haze, respectively.
So maybe the GW is better because the Union of Widow to Nev's haze is better (more of an outcross?) than the marriage of NevHz x MangoHaze (more of a backcross / recombination of genetics?
IIRC, CannaFish revealed to us in a recent thread that the father of NHM is not a mango haze male but rather the mango male, a Nl5xHzC that is a male sibling from the same large selection run Nevil and Shanti did that found Nl5xHzC #122, the mango haze mother. That's how I understand it at least.

I agree with you the plant dis-similarities could be due to the outcrossed GW vs the more inbred NHM. But I still think they are different moms. Another big difference in the plants is the rate of occurrence of intersex traits: 3/4 GW plants vs 1:3 NHM plants. Suggests to me the GW mom is a bit wilder, more feral.
 
Top