Is Shark Shock an IBL ?

Gizmo

New member
Hello guys, i would like to know if shark shock is an inbred line stable enough to make an outcross with another unrelated line please ? thank you

Gizmo
 

Yellowjacket

New member
Shark Shock has been around for a long time so what you are growing may be F30s. IOW cant get much more inbred. Spanish growers grow from seed to make seed.

YJ
 

PatrickStar

New member
Yellow if that's true, it would fly in the face of everything Shanti says about 'f1' seed & him having the same parent stock for years and years and years. I really don't know either way, but I'd be sad if I learned that Shanti handed some dudes in Spain or Washington or Canada or wherever some shark shock beans & told them to keep inbreeding & keep the line going.

I haven't run seed from Shanti that I would consider an IBL. Plants seem to breed true to smell or to flower time, but there is lots of variation plant to plant to plant for things like structure, flavor, high type, resin content, color, etc... Shit was relatively consistent, but even with them, there was variation. Most plants squat & funky but a few tall lemony ones too.
 

Yellowjacket

New member
It's YJ Patrick. Believe what u like but most seeds sold thru Amsterdam come from Spain.

Prof that diagram shows inbreeding a strain by dividing into parent phenos ie A and B to F6 and then crossing those back claiming a remake of the original F1.

However who knows how many alleles got lost that didn't make it thru the selection of parents each step along the way. May as well tell the truth that its a recombination of genes from the same ORIGINAL parent plants.

YJ
 

professorjj

New member
Thanks for stating the obvious Mr YJ.
The guy asked about the breeding of shark shock so thats what we have given them.
It is obviously a useful method as the quality of the strain speaks for itself.
What award winners have u bread YJ?
 

Yellowjacket

New member
None, nor have I claimed to.

What may be obvious to u and I may need some explaining for others, so how about u ignore the info u already obviously have? Hopefully it helped others understand what that chart signified.

Obviously in a real breeding situation there would be MANY mothers and fathers at each breeding in order to maintain as broad an allele pool as possible. Not just 1 and 1.

U and I know these things but others are just learning.

YJ
 

PatrickStar

New member
Sorry if I offended you Yellowjacket. Is it common knowledge now that there are a new set of parents for each round of shark shock produced? That would be the first I've heard of it & would love to see Shanti saying something to that effect if true. Just a group of subcontractors in spain making their own linebreeding parental selection decisions? Sorry, but I would rather believe Shanti when he states that they have & have had the same parental stock (plants not just genes) for years. Meaning the seeds in todays Shark Shock pack come off of the same mother plant (same clone...) & were created with pollen from the same male (same clone) - not inbreeds of prior generations.

I'm sure Shanti contracts out the seed making. I doubt he's contracted out the breeding decisions. Seems easier just to hold & distribute proven parental stock plants. How strains are created & how the retail pack of beans gets produced batch after batch are 2 different things.
 

Broseidon

Member
I would also be surprised if Shanti went through all the trouble of keeping several copies of selected parent plants spread over countries and continents (as he stated before), only to produce seeds the same way that the Spanish do.

Or he is lying but I doubt that because the results are too excellent and too many people vouch for him and his seeds.

It has been my impression to this point that we are dealing with clones of parent stock that has been kept alive and well over decades. Seeds were made using clones of those original parents (as Patrick described) and the original parents were just re-grown from clone if they lost vigor through the years or simply were lost to raids or disasters or whatever (which is why Shanti says he keeps clones of the original parents spread over different countries/continents).

Would really surprise me if this wasn't the case but I might just have understood it wrong.
Also it was my understanding that one of the main differences between MRN seeds and others is exactly this method of keeping parents alive over decades, while other "breeders", for example Serious Seeds, failed to do the same and lost this or that parent of their AK47 and then tried to replace it with a Chronic parent and later an AK47 F2,F3,F4 etc. parent. This resulted in alleles being lost over the years and the current versions of such strains being a shadow of their former self.

Another indicator why I believe this is the method MRN uses is that you supposedly find a certain range of variety in each pack (which is also one of the reasons they sell in packs of 15 or more, which no one else does).
From what I heard all but the oldest strains (like Shit) will have quite a bit of variety in phenotypic expressions. I assumed that strains like Shit have lesser variety because they were quite inbred already at the point of their creation (afaik Shit is a Skunk#1 X Skunk#1 and Skunk#1, I assume, was quite inbred already by the time Shanti backcrossed it to itself and renamed it Shit).

So I would call Shark Shock a "heavily worked" line, due to its age. But I would assume that you still get quite a bit of variety in a pack of 15.

I have a bunch of Mango Haze IBL seeds, which were marked as IBL by Shanti and sold in the christmas hampers packs. I assume there will be less variety in these than in my regular Mango Haze pack. But I expect deviations from the Mango Haze IBL to be rather small, as Mango Haze itself is a well worked line that has a rather small pool of variety already (or so I assume). After all, people growing Mango Haze, want Mango Haze and not Super Silver Haze expressions. If there still was large phenotypic variation in each Mango Haze pack, I would assume people would sometimes wind up with Super Silver Haze instead of Mango Haze and I doubt both strains would have such a stellar reputation in that case.
 
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musashi

Site Moderator
Staff member
It's always fun to surmise... And while interesting to a point, I no longer need assurances as the work has already been done. My concern is the consistency in the reproductivity of quality seed going forward. Shark Shock over many years has demonstrated that. So Gizmo, I see no reason why you shouldn't consider making your outcrosses with Shark Shock. Looking forward to hearing of your new creation brah. Aloha M
 

Gizmo

New member
thank you for the answers guys, i have emailed Shantibaba, we will see if we are buying F30 strains ! lol i know the nordle is an inbred line and i need a high potency regular strain IBL suitable for outdoor to cross to others outdoor strains. Shantibaba advised me the nordle, shark shock and master kaze for outdoor. shark shock is a bit earlier than nordle, i hope its stable enough to outcross it, i will wait the answer from the master ;) i will be happy to have some Shark 33 or Leda Shock crosses :)
 

Al Capone

New member
They are all F1 hybrids except maybe 1 line I think that was G13 x Haze I believe they are all true F1 hybrids as well they are great seeds for making pollyhybrids but you want to make a true F1 from his work you are going to need to put some work in.

And no F30 is just ridiculous we all know what happens to just F5's thanks to DJ Short you are better off with the hybrids like Blue Dream clone only.
 

Gizmo

New member
They are all F1 hybrids except maybe 1 line I think that was G13 x Haze I believe they are all true F1 hybrids as well they are great seeds for making pollyhybrids but you want to make a true F1 from his work you are going to need to put some work in.

And no F30 is just ridiculous we all know what happens to just F5's thanks to DJ Short you are better off with the hybrids like Blue Dream clone only.
No i think there are many mr nice strains who are inbred, most of them are not true F1 hybrids as F1 Hybrids are normally from 2 unrelated landraces, as i understand the breeding techniques from Shantibaba and Nevil Schoenmaker is most of the time some sort of linebreeding so the result is never true F1 but as said "stabilized F1".

Black Widow looks like an IBL, Black Widow males are advised to bred with by Shantibaba. "A highly recommended strain for amateur breeders - the male being preferable." Black Widow - Mr. Nice seedbank and research - Strains

a bit offtopic but an interesting quote from Shantibaba :

Originally Posted by Shantibaba
"When you have a series of males.Without checking for early resin gland production or any other trait you should look for uniformity of the plant.If you take the internode space from the bottom of the plant and follow it up to the top of the plant.What you should find is the plant displays a 1:1.6 ratio.If you see the bottom internode space is 1cm and the next internode space is 1.6cms and so on...then I say this is a better more stable plant to select...as well as takeing other traits into consideration

to base it on the internode ratio is one important factor for inbreeding genetic consistency that is already inherent.But by far not the only factor."


G13Skunk looks like an IBL, another quotre from Shantibaba "To answer HHHG the G13 was combined to the G13skunk when Nevil gave it to me in seed form . I only selected and inbreed to stabilize it so yes the G13skunk is the correct term."

i Cant speak for others strains for sure but im sure there are many inbred lines in the naturals old school genetics.
 

My Mate Dave

New member
i think its important to decide what the terms you are using mean before you have a conversation about them. F1, F1 hybrid, IBL are all almost meaningless in the context that people are currently using them.
 

Broseidon

Member
True, we might have to start a thread as to how we want to use terms here on MRN.

I remember seeing a video about a dude talking about what the term "stabilized strain" means.

He explained that it can mean a lot of things but if you would want to be "technically correct" about it, it would mean that this strain has been bred to the F4/F5/F6 generation to the point where there is very little variation and one can expect great uniformity in a pack of 10.

However, the guy stated that "stabilized strain" is being used in many ways in current canna culture and what most people actually mean when they ask "is this strain stabilized?" is simply "will it hermie on me?".

So in current canna culture, the term has been sort of re-defined to simply mean "does this strain hermie or not?".
Technically not correct, but if most growers are noobs and most of them use the term "stable" this way, then it sort of becomes a re-defined term ...

Not too stoked about that and don't think that's the right way to go about it but that's how societies and cultures work...
 
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