Is it a MUST to use PK while in bloom(organnic and non-organic)?

proger

Member
hello friends ! hope everyone are in good health...

im growing in soil with the biobizz line, with the H&G's multyzyme and Bud XL.

in this kinda complete organic line is it necessary to add PK? are the biobizz's bio-bloom and top-max doesnt have enough "PK" already? when do you think are the best time to add PK?

what are those PK's made off? are they all the same? some of them can be organic?

sorry for my noob questions, thanks for the helpers.
 

longball

Well-known member
Hello proger!

[Quote "Is it a MUST to use PK while in bloom(organic or non-organic)?" Quote] To answer your question as phrased and with "MUST" being the keyword, the simple answer is: NO!
If the question was "SHOULD you....", then I would say yes.

In your case, if you are using the Biobizz line of products then they have everything needed to get you from seedling to harvest. The 'Bio-Bloom' will give you the PK needed for flowering. You should not need anything else.

[Quote " when do you think are the best time to add PK?" quote] During the first week of flowering I start tapering off the N and start slowly adding the PK. By the end of the 3rd week I am done adding N and using PK as needed. This has worked for me, your mileage may vary. Too many variables for an exact precise answer. Good Luck with your grow!

Hope this helps :)

Longball

jack-herer-gg1-p1020808.jpg
 

Vlad the Inhaler

Active member
In
Hello proger!

[Quote "Is it a MUST to use PK while in bloom(organic or non-organic)?" Quote] To answer your question as phrased and with "MUST" being the keyword, the simple answer is: NO!
If the question was "SHOULD you....", then I would say yes.

In your case, if you are using the Biobizz line of products then they have everything needed to get you from seedling to harvest. The 'Bio-Bloom' will give you the PK needed for flowering. You should not need anything else.

[Quote " when do you think are the best time to add PK?" quote] During the first week of flowering I start tapering off the N and start slowly adding the PK. By the end of the 3rd week I am done adding N and using PK as needed. This has worked for me, your mileage may vary. Too many variables for an exact precise answer. Good Luck with your grow!

Hope this helps :)

Longball

View attachment 45650
In early bloom, week one to 3, as you are tapering N down, how much P do you need then?
You can raise EC, and need magnesium, calcium and potassium boost here also.
If it was a 9 week bloom, would you peak the P week 1-3 or 4-6?

If OP wants organic P boost, u can guano, but use good bacteria to solubilise it
K locks out calcium, if you let it get too high, but is way more active than ground up bat skeletons in a ROLS or living soil hookup.
Cheers
 

longball

Well-known member
Hello Vlad!

While your comments and questions are completely valid, they may be a bit advanced for the OP, a self-proclaimed noob with little to no growing experience. As he is trying to understand N-P-K I thought adding EC, ROLS, and such may be a bit much for someone trying to figure out N-P-K. For the OP, I was thinking keep it simple. One step at a time. Learn how to grow. How to follow instructions on the products listed. Watch how your plants respond. Different plants may need less or more than what the label suggests. In other words, master the basics with a grow or two and continue to learn. And ask lots of question here. Not sure he knows what PH is let alone EC.

[quote "If it was a 9 week bloom, would you peak the P week 1-3 or 4-6?" quote]

I would peak P in weeks 1-3 as P is largely responsible for bud site development and weeks 1-3 is when the bud sites are developing. I also use bat guano and molasses, etc during flowering. I did not mention this to the OP as I did not want to overwhelm him with so much info. I also don't have a lot of grows under my belt so I am learning something everyday myself.

As the OP is a beginning grower I think learning basics such as to how much water for each plant, how much N-P-K for each plant, checking PH for water and soil, training the plants, learning how to measure, log, monitor all he does, etc, will keep him busy during his first grow(s). Of course there will be questions on lighting, RH, temps, any problems, etc so there is a ton of information for a noob grower to learn just to master the basics. I feel he should master the basics before he can hope to gain your knowledge of growing. Me too! You are a respected grower and I read your posts whenever I see that you have posted something up! :)

Keep in mind - I understand everything I said could be totally wrong! I am still learning too! ;)

Longball
 

Vlad the Inhaler

Active member
Hello Vlad!

While your comments and questions are completely valid, they may be a bit advanced for the OP, a self-proclaimed noob with little to no growing experience. As he is trying to understand N-P-K I thought adding EC, ROLS, and such may be a bit much for someone trying to figure out N-P-K. For the OP, I was thinking keep it simple. One step at a time. Learn how to grow. How to follow instructions on the products listed. Watch how your plants respond. Different plants may need less or more than what the label suggests. In other words, master the basics with a grow or two and continue to learn. And ask lots of question here. Not sure he knows what PH is let alone EC.

[quote "If it was a 9 week bloom, would you peak the P week 1-3 or 4-6?" quote]

I would peak P in weeks 1-3 as P is largely responsible for bud site development and weeks 1-3 is when the bud sites are developing. I also use bat guano and molasses, etc during flowering. I did not mention this to the OP as I did not want to overwhelm him with so much info. I also don't have a lot of grows under my belt so I am learning something everyday myself.

As the OP is a beginning grower I think learning basics such as to how much water for each plant, how much N-P-K for each plant, checking PH for water and soil, training the plants, learning how to measure, log, monitor all he does, etc, will keep him busy during his first grow(s). Of course there will be questions on lighting, RH, temps, any problems, etc so there is a ton of information for a noob grower to learn just to master the basics. I feel he should master the basics before he can hope to gain your knowledge of growing. Me too! You are a respected grower and I read your posts whenever I see that you have posted something up! :)

Keep in mind - I understand everything I said could be totally wrong! I am still learning too! ;)

Longball
Cheers man
Phosphorus and potassium work in the soil quite differently, so I was suggesting the OP try and think of them differently.
Phosphorus kills most beneficial soil bacteria and should be used moderately.

Your reply to OP is sweet, the nutrition he is using is complete, and doesn't need extra supplamentation.

I think in gunga Cal n mag are no less important to consider than npk as gross inputs.
Cheers.
 

Vlad the Inhaler

Active member
hello friends ! hope everyone are in good health...

im growing in soil with the biobizz line, with the H&G's multyzyme and Bud XL.

in this kinda complete organic line is it necessary to add PK? are the biobizz's bio-bloom and top-max doesnt have enough "PK" already? when do you think are the best time to add PK?

what are those PK's made off? are they all the same? some of them can be organic?

sorry for my noob questions, thanks for the helpers.
Hi. I used to use PK booster in organic grows.

If you want to go low input in grow try
1/3 peat
1/3 pumice
1/3 worm shit.
+Oyster or mussel shell pwdr
+Kelp
+Fish meal
+Basalt pwdr
+ Clay

#recycled organic living soil (rols)
if you want to go down that path.
 

longball

Well-known member
[QUOTE="Vlad the Inhaler, Phosphorus kills most beneficial soil bacteria [/QUOTE]

Hello Vlad!

What is your source for this information please.

From the National Center For Biotechnology Information - " The availability of carbon was the limiting factor for bacterial growth in the humus, nitrogen addition appeared to have a negative effect, while phosphorus did not affect the bacterial activity."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC92804/

Longball
 

proger

Member
thanks yoall!
wasnt able to reply due to some "Animals" came and robbed my plants from my yard, freaking criminals any corner here.

now, i was getting mixed replyas some saided that bio bizz is complete with PK already(and all other elements?), and some said i can use PK boost style atami or hessi?

will try to mix bat guano and all the listed materials gived.

Stay safe the world is getting crazy!
 

Vlad the Inhaler

Active member
[QUOTE="Vlad the Inhaler, Phosphorus kills most beneficial soil bacteria
Hello Vlad!

What is your source for this information please.

From the National Center For Biotechnology Information - " The availability of carbon was the limiting factor for bacterial growth in the humus, nitrogen addition appeared to have a negative effect, while phosphorus did not affect the bacterial activity."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC92804/

Longball
[/QUOTE]
Ok. Nice long read, but do you understamd its context?
The study isn't testing specific strains of symbiotic cannabis bacteria.
The study seems to be basically the relationship between carbon and total bacterial mass, with no recognition of indivigual bacterial strains and their relationship to NPK.
What do you think this study is saying about cannabis specific gardening?

I don't think that link shows much more than the relationship between soil carbon and growth of bacteria colonies ( which was its purpose )
 
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Vlad the Inhaler

Active member
[QUOTE="Vlad the Inhaler, Phosphorus kills most beneficial soil bacteria
Hello Vlad!

What is your source for this information please.

From the National Center For Biotechnology Information - " The availability of carbon was the limiting factor for bacterial growth in the humus, nitrogen addition appeared to have a negative effect, while phosphorus did not affect the bacterial activity."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC92804/

Longball
[/QUOTE]
Total bacterial growth doesn't mean you are growing the beneficial ones necessarily. ESPECIALLY IF THE ONES YOU PROMOTE COMPETE WITH THE ONES YOU REQUIRE
One cannabis symbiotic bacteria that loves phosphorus is Bacillus subtilis.
That's why I recommended OP use bacteria to solubilise the phosphorus from the bone powder in the guano.
You might want to follow research being done by Australia's CSIRO, they are pretty active in researching phosphorus-bacterial interaction.
Cheers
 
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Vlad the Inhaler

Active member
thanks yoall!
wasnt able to reply due to some "Animals" came and robbed my plants from my yard, freaking criminals any corner here.

now, i was getting mixed replyas some saided that bio bizz is complete with PK already(and all other elements?), and some said i can use PK boost style atami or hessi?

will try to mix bat guano and all the listed materials gived.

Stay safe the world is getting crazy!
Cannas best ability is her capacity to operate suboptimally.
You can do heaps of detrimental shit and she still performs.

Check your food, is phosphorus present?
Test some plants with that food only.
Try some with different t doses of PK.
You will increase your skill by custom tweaking food to specific strains and individual plants.
It's a little bit hypothetical until that point.

I think easiest way to learn is hand watering a run to waste coco.. (coco/peat/pumce/granite gravel blend ??)
You can correct nutrition imbalance almost immediately.
It's bit harder in organic because the nutrition you are providing isn't readily available, and won't necessarily become available simultaneously with other minerals present.

Guano is basically ground up bat skeletons. The N and K has leached away, just leaving P.
The P in blood n bone isn't readily available.
And that's why you would use PKboost.
Because it's active
Good luck in working it out
You are in the right place.


##some guano from fresher deposits have almost 1;1 N;P but they are not what you use to bloom. You may want to look at micronised bone dust/meal instead.
You should be able to get it out of hog or poultry feed chain easily enough.
 
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longball

Well-known member
Hello Vlad!

You sure are taking the long way around the barn to simply say: "There is no source. I was hitting the bong too hard when I posted that." All I can say is…..

GOTCHA!

[QUOTE="Vlad the Inhaler, "Guano is basically ground up bat skeletons."[/QUOTE]

Vlad, bat guano is not made up of ground up bat skeletons. It is made up of bat shit. I know you know this. What the hell is in that bong? I want some!

GOTCHA!!! AGAIN!!! :p

Vlad, you greatly disappoint me. I thought I was going to learn from your posts. Well, I did learn, but it was not at all what I expected to learn! ;)

We have polluted the OP's thread enough with this nonsense so I am moving on to where the grass is greener.

Cheers, Vlad!

Longball
 

longball

Well-known member
Hello proger!

Sorry to hear of the loss of your plants. That always sucks big time. 2 more things to add to your 'to-do' list. Secrecy and security. Good Luck in your future grows!

Longball
 

BuzzardsBay

Active member
Hi. I used to use PK booster in organic grows.

If you want to go low input in grow try
1/3 peat
1/3 pumice
1/3 worm shit.
+Oyster or mussel shell pwdr
+Kelp
+Fish meal
+Basalt pwdr
+ Clay

#recycled organic living soil (rols)
if you want to go down that path.
That’s what I use. Every fall I have an unlimited supply of oak leaves. I mix with fresh alfalfa and get a monstrous pile cooking. Then I add the same ingredients as you list above and cook it all winter. I don’t use any nutes for plants that are in the ground. Maybe dump a bag of lobster compost from my friends in Maine.
 

MImedpatient

Well-known member
When I grow organically, I make a weekly compost tea that I dilute down. I use a Mel's mix type soil(look it up, its the basic blend, what Vlad said). the only think I do is add 1 tsp of either nitrogen guano, or phosphorus guano to a 30 gallon bucket of compost tea while its brewing depending on if its veg or flower, to assist the plant in telling the microbes that the new food is phosphorus. this allows for a 4 week "flush" of just enzymes, bacteria, mycorrhizae, and molasses. any water that is "overwatered" gets sucked up into the soil.
When I grow synthetically, I figure out how to "Spoon feed" each variety. right now I am using veg bloom. I have gotten base, and life as low as I can for my Mac one Caps cut. I am still reducing the rate on shine(bloom), and stackswell(cal mag) but I am doing it one fertilizer, one cycle at a time.
That’s what I use. Every fall I have an unlimited supply of oak leaves. I mix with fresh alfalfa and get a monstrous pile cooking. Then I add the same ingredients as you list above and cook it all winter. I don’t use any nutes for plants that are in the ground. Maybe dump a bag of lobster compost from my friends in Maine.
I can't recomend, lobster, shrimp, or crab compost or liquid fertilizers enough when making compost teas or feeding worms. the chitinase makes such a hateful environemnt to pests
 
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