FCP HAZE discussion video discussion thread.

MImedpatient

Well-known member

Lets talk about this, see what these people say is stuff that was researched, or personal experience. Shantibaba, Musashi, you guys are like encyclopedia's of Haze knowledge. I would very much like to hear your contributions to what is said here.
 
it's a great stream, almost everyday, sometimes twice. They had Arjan from GHS on there a couple weeks ago, it'd be nice to see some guests who are out of the local echo chamber though. +rep peter
 
Hi, I watched a little bit of this but they both seem too young and just relying on info from hand me down stories....so origins are probably a bit rough. But great to see enthusiasm for historic regions.

One must remember wherever people smoked pot, there was either smuggling routes or sub culture independent growers who were invisible to most for a reason...so considering all things the historic accuracy will be down to hand me down stories that sometimes become legends without real factual verification. The fact is that people went out of their area to search for seed stock , brought it back and began selection over time, narrowing things down over consecutive generations of inbreeding until strains that suited areas and had great affects on a majority of people began taking root....and the myths and stories grew from there. But most of the origins of sativas that contributed to these hybrids called Haze originated 10 degrees north and south of the equator.

America and Australia and worldwide cannabis was not a regular product on a shelf. It had to come through clandestine channels, secretive growers, and discreet dealers so to protect itself mis information was spread as much as real information was known by a few...these merge to create the myths as time progresses. As less original people who personally went world wide genetic searching are alive and growing those strains, stories get murky for commercial reasons and marketing....so while many may think they know the original story, it really is only original if you were there then.

Take care all the best Shantibaba
 
Hi, I watched a little bit of this but they both seem too young and just relying on info from hand me down stories....so origins are probably a bit rough. But great to see enthusiasm for historic regions.

One must remember wherever people smoked pot, there was either smuggling routes or sub culture independent growers who were invisible to most for a reason...so considering all things the historic accuracy will be down to hand me down stories that sometimes become legends without real factual verification. The fact is that people went out of their area to search for seed stock , brought it back and began selection over time, narrowing things down over consecutive generations of inbreeding until strains that suited areas and had great affects on a majority of people began taking root....and the myths and stories grew from there. But most of the origins of sativas that contributed to these hybrids called Haze originated 10 degrees north and south of the equator.

America and Australia and worldwide cannabis was not a regular product on a shelf. It had to come through clandestine channels, secretive growers, and discreet dealers so to protect itself mis information was spread as much as real information was known by a few...these merge to create the myths as time progresses. As less original people who personally went world wide genetic searching are alive and growing those strains, stories get murky for commercial reasons and marketing....so while many may think they know the original story, it really is only original if you were there then.

Take care all the best Shantibaba
have an awesome day Shanti! I hope that you get around to listening to the while thing, as the 1st part once they get into the haze talk is forum posts from here. but Mr Toad is telling some interesting stories. and they line up with the last sentence of your 1st paragraph. equatorial sativa's crossed together. the man may know his history quite well.

I hope they toss you an invite and you can find the time to schedule an appearance since your name and company keep being brought up.

it's a great stream, almost everyday, sometimes twice. They had Arjan from GHS on there a couple weeks ago, it'd be nice to see some guests who are out of the local echo chamber though. +rep peter
the Potcast,Zenthanol, FCP, ADS, the grow from your heart podcast, Eagle garden's stream, GML are all great places to snag information, it just sucks that some of those are basically group hangouts and the information requires being a fly on the wall and it feels so weird!!!!
 
With a magnifying glass to your eye, everything looks like a clue.
In that sense, many are drawn into it with different intentions, to satisfy whatever ails them..
Myself, I consider lucky having been privy to an active pocket with deep roots. If you know, you know.
Don't be lazy. Listen (to the seeds). Other people's biases can become your own truth, repeated enough.
 
With a magnifying glass to your eye, everything looks like a clue.
In that sense, many are drawn into it with different intentions, to satisfy whatever ails them..
Myself, I consider lucky having been privy to an active pocket with deep roots. If you know, you know.
Don't be lazy. Listen (to the seeds). Other people's biases can become your own truth, repeated enough.
as Shanti and many of the older growers say "proof is in the seed" weird recessive grandparent phenotypes are possibly the most desirable from current hybrids. as I got deeper in, Mr toad went on a rant that made me feel he doesn't really respect the Dutch haze hybrids as much as he does the ones that supposedly never left Cali/PNW. where as I, as an afghan fan, fully love and respect all the ex situ afghan lines and their collectors & cultivators that have been kept pure, and hybridized all over the world.
 
some people just like to talk a lot. i guess youtube will pay them $ for that.
Yes. my friend just moved to Chicago as its apparently a great place for a voice acting career. and I am encouraging him to read public domain stuff, forum posts, TCGtournament rule updates, anything to get that ad revenue and to get his name out there.
 
as Shanti and many of the older growers say "proof is in the seed" weird recessive grandparent phenotypes are possibly the most desirable from current hybrids. as I got deeper in, Mr toad went on a rant that made me feel he doesn't really respect the Dutch haze hybrids as much as he does the ones that supposedly never left Cali/PNW. where as I, as an afghan fan, fully love and respect all the ex situ afghan lines and their collectors & cultivators that have been kept pure, and hybridized all over the world.

Mr toad says alot of things. Before his friends arrived in holland nevil was selling oaxacans, thai, columbian, nigerian, nepalese and others. It was tods friends who started the trend to turn the genetics upside down and into mish mash. The exact thing he makes out the dutch did.
 
Oct 10, 2010

Do you regret selling NL1 as a pure line? Just me thinking that it made it easy for people to rip off your genes into their own work.

I'd regret it if I didn't do it. My mission was one of self empowerment for cannabis smokers and growers (people like me).
Up until The Seed Bank, my story is much like that of many of you. I came of age in the '70s. I didn't much care for the way the world was being run. I experienced my school years as something akin to a prison sentence, only these days, they can't subject prisoners to the amount of violence from the guards as I had to endure from teachers.
Getting the strap or cane was pretty much a daily thing towards the end, but on 3 occasions I got 12 straps at once, 6 across each hand as hard as a big man can do. I cried the first time (I was 11), but never again. By the third time, it was pretty much decided that the world was going to have a problem with me. I got expelled from 2 schools. Schools seemed to me, designed to crush the spirit of anything that resembled an individual, in order to churn out victims, ready to work until they dropped. You were taught to conform and to accept your station in life and how to be a worker and pay taxes. We weren't taught how to protect ourselves from predatory governments and corporations. Most kids these days, come out of schools at 18 and can legally sign their life away in contracts they can't read or understand. Why is that do you think?
Before time I started TSB, I had had a series of soul destroying jobs that never paid enough to have a life. Cops, banks, government, doctors and the legal system were sucking the life out of me like they do to all of us and my employer (a contractor who sold me a house with some promises to renovate it) was ripping me off. I had had enough! After fixing my house in the bosses time with materials I just took from the company, I quit my job. I studied the contracts I had with him and found grounds to terminate it and pocketed the money. I assumed the horizontal meditation position on the couch and decided to smoke dope and wait for inspiration.

My girlfriend and I got separate dole cheques which was the equivalent of what I could get for working. Of course the government sent social workers to my house to get proof that we were living as a couple in order to reduce the payments. They weren't a match for me. I told the woman that I had a dark secret and that I was willing to confide in her because she had the demeanour of a worldly women who inspired trust, but I could only do so if she if she would guard my secret. Women love secrets. She promised, but I had to be frank.
I told her a tale of a young adventurer coming from a foreign land and falling in love with his cousin whom he had never met. A tale of forbidden love that would not be denied and condemnation from the family. I told her that we had hatched a plan so that we could continue to see each other without arousing suspicion. Her best friend (who was conveniently hot) would share a house with me and that way we could pretend that it was over. I told the woman that my uncle, a terrible violent man who continued killing Nazi's after the war and chased them all the way to the Czech border had threatened to kill me, but I had to risk it all for love. She understood completely. She left saying that she had enough proof that it was clear that the woman was simply a border. My secret was safe with her. I think that she was starting to understand why my cousin found me irresistible.

I was growing my Oaxacan, but the results were unpredictable after the cops had poured all my seeds on the floor during a bust at my last house. I was pretty pissed off about this. I decided to study the Dutch drug laws, which were governed by an International Treaty. The Single Convention on Narcotic Drugs, adopted in 1961.
From Wikipedia
The Single Convention on Narcotic Drugs is an international treaty to prohibit production and supply of specific (nominally narcotic) drugs and of drugs with similar effects except under licence for specific purposes, such as medical treatment and research. As noted below, its major effects included updating the Paris Convention of 13 July 1931 to include the vast number of synthetic opioids invented in the intervening 30 years and a mechanism for more easily including new ones. From 1931 to 1961 most of the families of synthetic opioids had been developed, including drugs in whatever way related to methadone, pethidine, morphinans and dextromoramide & related drugs; research on fentanyls and piritramide were also nearing fruition at this point.

Earlier treaties had only controlled opium, coca, and derivatives such as morphine, heroin and cocaine.The Single Convention, adopted in 1961, consolidated those treaties and broadened their scope to include cannabis and drugs whose effects are similar to those of the drugs specified. The Commission on Narcotic Drugs and the World Health Organisation were empowered to add, remove, and transfer drugs among the treaty's four Schedules of controlled substances. The International Narcotics Control Board was put in charge of administering controls on drug production, international trade, and dispensation. The United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime (UNODC) was delegated the Board's day-to-day work of monitoring the situation in each country and working with national authorities to ensure compliance with the Single Convention. This treaty has since been supplemented by the Convention on Psychotropic Substances, which controls LSD, Ecstasy, and other psychoactive pharmaceuticals, and the United Nations Convention Against Illicit Traffic in Narcotic Drugs and Psychotropic Substances, which strengthens provisions against money laundering and other drug-related offences.

The 1961 treaty specifically excluded the cannabis seeds. Bingo!
To be continued:
 
The Dutch law reflected the terms of the treaty. Seeds were legal. I pondered the implications of this. The Law is all about what you can't do. If it's not in the Law Books, it's legal by definition. Extrapolating the idea further, if it is legal to possess seeds, then it's legal to buy, sell, import and export seeds, by International Treaty.

I went back to the couch. Smoking Oaxacan, I started to dream a new reality. I dreamed of a world where people like you and me could grow the best dope in the world. We could throw off the yolk of the slave masters and say "fuck you" to the system that oppresses and enslaves us. No more taking crap from the Man. Like Duncan McCloud in the Highlander I gained power every time I went to battle. I had a vision of a revolution and ideas began to crystallise. It was time to make hash.
I went to a lawyer and got him to confirm in writing that it was legal to possess, buy, sell, import and export cannabis seeds according to International Law. At the very least, I would be able to go to foreign countries and collect landraces and ship them to Holland legally and export them legally. I had the framework of a legal company and nobody could do anything about it. So called foreign imported seed was by definition proof that I didn't grow it. I had one of those Spiritually Enhanced moments that I knew with absolute certainty, "I'm a fucking genius!".

I contacted the High Times, who eventually put me on to their legal department. My logic was unassailable. I was running a legal business according to Dutch and International Law and I could prove it. I wanted to place an ad for my legal business. Why would the High Times discriminate against legal cannabis seed merchants? My ad got placed. I was a very small ad, Columbian and Nigerian seeds 4 for $1. You might have missed it, if you weren't paying attention. It was one of those defining moments in history that put the ball in our court.

Brutus:
There is a tide in the affairs of men.
Which, taken at the flood, leads on to fortune;
Omitted, all the voyage of their life
Is bound in shallows and in miseries.
On such a full sea are we now afloat,
And we must take the current when it serves,
Or lose our ventures.
Julius Caesar Act 4, scene 3, 218–224

The heavens split and cleaved off a new world. Probable realities became the new reality. I was captain of this ship and I could see where we were going. The future was mapped out in my mind's eye. The consequences of placing that ad was that people who had the good strains could now find me. All roads would lead to Rome and I'd just become Caesar. A bit presumptuous you might think, but I'd thought about this long and hard. My model of the future was based on millions of people being just like me. We were all crying out for what the '60s had promised us. It never happened, The US Federal government booted down the front doors of the peaceful revolution and tarnished the symbol of peace with their wars, but to me the other symbol of transformation was the Marijuana leaf. It was and is irrepressible, you see it everywhere. This was the symbol of hope and change. (get in line Obama)
It was still the dawning of the age of Aquarius and I was born under an Aquarian sky, with the Sun and the moon in Aquarius and I loved pot. If you lay on the couch and smoke enough dope, it all becomes clear to you. It was predictable that those who had worth while genetics would sell or swap seeds with me. It was just a matter of time and I was going to pull those buds out of the High Times and smoke them! Then I was going to breed even better varieties and my buds would be in the High Times.

One of the unchangeable laws of creation is, "What you put out is what you get back". The only way to get everything I wanted was to give everything I had. It was also a blow for freedom. I was putting seeds into peoples hands that could change their lives. If any of you chucked in a shit job and grew a lot of dope and made some money, then the plan worked. If it relieved your suffering in any way, then I have been blessed. If any of you grew any of my strains and became Spiritually Enhanced and want to share my crown, then that's OK too. If any of you feel that your lives are better because of what I've done, then I am twice blessed.
For some of you, more self empowerment lead to greater battles, that was my path too.
So this was the long answer to the question of whether I regret handing out pure strains. The short answer is ; "Not for one moment, for I am the master of my fate and I am the captain of my soul".
N.


I Am The Captain Of My Soul

Out of the night that covers me
black as the pit from pole to pole
I thank whatever gods may be
for my unconquerable soul

In the fell clutch of circumstance
I have not winced nor cried aloud
Under the bludgeonings of chance
my head is bloody, but unbowed

Beyond this place of wrath and tears
looms but the horror of the shade
and yet the menace of the years
finds, and shall find me, unafraid

It matters not how strait the gate
how charged with punishments the scroll
I am the master of my fate
I am the captain of my soul

"Invictus,"
by William Earnest Henley
 
Oct 10, 2010

Do you regret selling NL1 as a pure line? Just me thinking that it made it easy for people to rip off your genes into their own work.

, adopted in 1961.
From Wikipedia
The Single Convention on Narcotic Drugs is an international treaty to prohibit production and supply of specific (nominally narcotic) drugs and of drugs with similar effects except under licence for specific purposes, such as medical treatment and research. As noted below, its major effects included updating the Paris Convention of 13 July 1931 to include the vast number of synthetic opioids invented in the intervening 30 years and a mechanism for more easily including new on
So basically, Nevil figured Overgrow the government, and sharing genetics is the proper and righteous thing to do?
 
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