Breeding techniques

EDIT

Nevil said:
The price for backcrossing the 5HzA back to HzC was that the hybrid was not as consistent as the 5Hz. Maybe one in 20 females would be better than the 5Hz.

So apparently it is not because crossing the NL5HzA to HzC gives F2s that NH was only offered as an intraspecific F1 hybrid but rather that as a backcross F1 hybrid it was not sufficiently consistent...
 
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Interesting quote indeed...

So it seems that when backcrossing NL5HzC to the HzC male, not even 1 plant in 20 females was superior to the NL5Hz.

Which is not really surprising given that it contained two time the same HzC male, at least with NH it used two different males but was still not sufficiently consistent.

Anyways it is just wishful thinking to imply that Nevil could have proposed an inconsistent hybrid as his greatest achievement...
 
Here you are...

Now we have a format so that we can more easily understand what is being proposed, lets get back to the plot.

As you can see, from the pedigree of NH, the average age of the grandparents is about 40 years. It is for this reason that the NH is the most useful candidate for the Grail Sire. To my knowledge, it has been inbred to Haze only once, and this came with a price.
The NL5 x Haze, from both Haze males A and B, was a very consistent hybrid. The likelihood of a good plant coming out of a small batch of seeds was in your favour. My opinion for what it's worth is that this is the best Indica/Sativa F1 Hybrids that I have grown. I don't know where you can still get a genuine 5xHz f1 hybrid today. Fortunately we still have clones. of the two best F1 females.
The price for back crossing the 5HzA back to Haze C was that the hybrid was not as consistent as the 5Hz. Maybe one in 20 females would be better than the 5Hz. Further doubling up on HzA or C will reduce the return even further. I know this from experience.
If there are other good haze lines out there, be it from Sam or the Haze bros., what are the chances of it being an F1? If large numbers of the progeny smell like cat piss, it's very likely inbred and therefore not likely to be a good candidate. A 25% Haze hybrid from a different Haze line that has not been inbred to Haze would offer more hope.
Smoko time
N.
 
´You can’t see the forest for the haze’

Concerning SSH:

[...]
I can tell you that you wouldn’t want the batch that the NL5HzC x SkHzC came from. It was a "one off" in a batch full of skinny cat piss.
[...]

For the record, I have grown Sensi Seeds NL5Hz in 1992, the 1997 GHSco SSH, the 1998 GHSco NH and as such can vouch that all of them were very consistent hybrids from the start.

How to explain that?

NL5Hz as an interspecific hybrid was great.

While NH as a three way cross and SSH as a four way cross needed more work before being released in order to offer more consistency... hence their intraspecific version.
 
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Pure Haze

Sam_Skunkman at Cannabis World said:
[...]
The original Haze was special in the 1970’s due to it’s F1 Hybrid vigor and the selfed generations have lost that, the further from the F1 you go the worse the quality. All Original Haze seeds made today by others are F10+ a long way from the F1’s. I have clones that are F2-F5. But they are not anywhere as good as the F1’s from the 1970’s.

If the Skunkman really has F2-F5 pure Haze cuttings one wonders why he didn’t use them during all those years.

And why did he choose to let the community fend with inbred F10+ Haze while he knew very well it was junk.

Isn’t cannabis an obligate outcrosser???
 
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by the time they get to us the consumer they are poly hybrids.

It is precisely because NH, MH and SSH are multi-polyhybrids that they need to be worked intraspecifically.

Nevil tried to explain it...

Unfortunately trolls did not give him the time nor the opportunity to express it fully.
 
Is this contradictory? the skinny cat piss "one off" is also the one that made SSH and Jack Herer etc...?

It isn’t a « skinny cat piss "one off"» but « a "one off" in a batch full of skinny cat piss».

Either Sensi directors authorised the release of the plant produced from a mating I had made prior to ending up in jail in 1990, or a person in a position of trust made private arrangements. The mating was NL5xHzC X SK1xHzC.
Sensi won a cup with this cutting. It was called "Jack Herer". The J.H. line of seeds had this plant as a mother.
Green House also won with this plant at the Cups. It was called Super Silver Haze. As GH never had this cutting, who knows what they are calling SSH.
In the '90s, a variety known as Diesel was making a name for itself. When I smoked it I knew instantly that this was exactly the same plant and they had a cutting. The early Diesel line of seeds would also have used this plant as a mother.
All 3 lines were made with different fathers at least and this was 20 years ago. One would assume that successive generations would all go in their own unique directions, presumably giving rise to any distinct differences today. The names have remained the same and all 3 lines gained their credibility from the exceptional qualities of the original cutting NL5HzC x SK1HzC.
N.
 
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While I love the gear and respect everything Neville did for the community, I don't actually believe that he was magic and could identify plants with the type of accuracy that he claimed.

For one thing, I have grown quite a few cuts that have different traits under different conditions. Currently my "main" plant that I am vaping turned out VERY different on the last run. This was mostly due to a lighting snafu (green lights 24/7) about 3/4 of the way through flowering that pulled it towards vegetative, then the lights were extinguished. It veered back into flower, and ended up cut 5 months, 3 weeks of flowering. It's expression is much more sativa than usual. A typical run for the plant is 12 weeks.
 
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Dont think any one claimed he was magic..but he's saying he recognized his work in renamed lines..an all the information has been accurate as far as I know...also wen we read some of the information that he left with us, we need to remember some of its contex was pre 2000/2001 in holland.. After this nevil had gone back to Australia.
 
It's a leap of faith to believe unprovable claims which is why I refer to the claims as magic.

The claims were unprovable when he made them and the time to try has long since passed.

I think that maybe older people who fell in love with great weed before Neville was in business have a harder time with the deity aspects of how Neville seems to be viewed in the forums. Or I could just put it like I usually end up boiling down my thoughts on the subject: Neville was standing on the shoulders of giants. We are standing on his giant shoulders.
 
Then enough with quoting his claims that he could taste a plant and retroactively ascertain the lineage AS EVIDENCE. Maybe, but no EVIDENCE that he could. And again maybe within a limited gene pool, but that isn't generally the claim.
 
No need to be a hater. show me these offensive magical claims that I keep quoting ??
You are the sole bearer of this magical trip. We were talking about pedigrees and breeding until you came in and poopoo'd on a dead man's thread.

Did I accuse you?

I don't try to memorize where I see the claims, as when I see them I stop giving the threads much credence.

I have seen numerous threads that quote Neville re: OG Kush being the result of some strains he worked with, downstream.

Not HATING on anyone. Just discounting some claims that get treated like facts.

Thanks for Sharon.
 
Did I accuse you?

I don't try to memorize where I see the claims, as when I see them I stop giving the threads much credence.

I have seen numerous threads that quote Neville re: OG Kush being the result of some strains he worked with, downstream.

Not HATING on anyone. Just discounting some claims that get treated like facts.

Thanks for Sharon.


So OG kush and Triangle Kush are both sisters from the same bud. Origins-Tk-og on insta was growing a strain commercially available in Florida from the emerald triangle which was an afghan, but wasn’t to his liking. So he flew and bough every seed Nevil sold from Nevil, and was growing a Hindu Kush offering which we now know was kush4 x nl2. And both OG and TK were in one of many seeded buds.
 
Hahaha be careful, say that 3 times and it will summon his return.

yeah you kind of accused me. Never seen the OG kush threads with Nevil. He said he thought dutch diesel was the same cut as ssh and Jack Herer, take it for what's it's worth... not EVIDENCE.

Just talking about haze pedigrees and breeding tech here. No gassed up OG kush histories. I think you are conflating icmag rantings with something Nevil actually said.

I am definitely conflating Neville's reputation across the spectrum, and am stating that.

BTW, I never mentioned anyone by name in the "accusation".

He's like the Jim Bowie of Weediculture; the legends accrue after the fact.
 
Hey I can see where it sure looks like I was referring to you canna when I was railing about Neville worship.

Sorry about that.

I should just let it rest, because I DO really value what he brought to the table, in innumerable ways. He restructured the whole ball game and he should be revered for that. What he did took balls of steel. Hell, here I sit still too chicken to even share pictures over 30 years since he put it ALL out there.

Hats off to the man and his accomplishments.

"One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die"
~HST
 
Hahaha be careful, say that 3 times and it will summon his return.

yeah you kind of accused me. Never seen the OG kush threads with Nevil. He said he thought dutch diesel was the same cut as ssh and Jack Herer, take it for what's it's worth... not EVIDENCE.

Just talking about haze pedigrees and breeding tech here. No gassed up OG kush histories. I think you are conflating icmag rantings with something Nevil actually said.

“ In Amsterdam, OTK was having a hard time finding weed that could meet his own high standards when they came across Neville’s Seed Catalog. Again, the strain names within meant little to them, so they bought the entire catalog and OTK smuggled upwards of $10,000 worth of cannabis seeds back home to the U.S.

Remember, he’s barely 18 at this time, working for a crew that was installing ‘the blueprint’ in homes up and down the Florida coast. Things were getting heavy.

So, in 1990, he and the crew start popping packs from their massive seed bank, hoping to find the next big thing.

THINGS POP

While testing various seeds in rockwool, OTK had sexed them out and separated some promising looking Hindu Kush seedlings that he had popped from the Neville score with hopes of hunting down a viable pheno to add to the operation.

He took a few of the Hindu testers and placed them just inside the doorway of a stacked flower room for safe keeping.

This room was packed to the gills with a funky, flavorful strain known at the time as Emerald Triangle – almost certainly a product of, and a call back to, the notoriously cannabis-rich culture that still thrives in Northern California.

Due to the way they jammed ‘the blueprint’ into small, residential spaces, there was really no way to access the center, edges, or back of the Emerald Triangle sea of green after about Week 3. You couldn’t even crawl in if you had to.

When it came time to harvest that room, the crew realized that one of the Hindu testers must have chucked some pollen and, to their dismay, there was scattered pollination throughout the room.

OTK took the blame for the mishap, even though he had been sure that no male plants were present. The entire episode made him focus on selling the seeded crop as quickly as possible to put it all behind him.

The buds were still dripping with shimmering trichomes and gushing with exotic aromas, and the seeding was not too prevalent. Overall, OTK estimates that they lost about five pounds of yield due to the error, but the remaining 30 pounds of weed sold out almost immediately in Florida’s black market.”

And the Hindu Kush according to Nevil here was kush4Xnl2


Chem and sour are different plants than tk/og btw which is pretty obvious despite the rumors online.

Origins bought the seeds directly from Nevil himself

https://www.beardbrospharms.com/new...blazers-series-the-origins-of-og-kush-part-ii
 
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Wow. Just wow.

Nevil really comes across as a narcissistic arrogant prick in the first few pages of this thread eh?

He was just some dude who was lucky enough to be in the right place at the right time.

Chimera made some really solid points that were not even addressed other than to say " I make more money my way so fuck everyone and fuck the landraces too".

Hind sight is a bitch....if he had any landraces left he could now make more money in the next year than his entire career to this date (yes I know he passed away).

I'm just seriously disappointed after reading that shit he posted here.
 
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