Back Door Man- a Neville's Haze/Doors cross

musashi

Site Moderator
Staff member
Aloha fellow Firewalkers!

Tull's crowning achievement! "And the train, it won't stop going, no way to slow down..."

The males were taken from the room this morning. They will be topped and put back in veg. The open pollination appears successful as many stigma are showing signs of fertilization with styluses wrinkling up. I will use a foliar spray tomorrow making sure all fertilization ceases going forward. Looking forward to a bountiful harvest of seed!

male2 9_8.jpg male1 9_8.jpg

Tomorrow will be 3 weeks and there is no denying the growth stage. The NH7xD14 mentioned earlier in post #41 is now at 129cm and the NH4xD14 is now at 92cm, an average 44% height increase in just one week!

NH#7 moms 9_8.jpg doors archtype 9_8.jpg

There is a lot of diversity presenting in this cross with some plants at 54cm to the 129cm ones mentioned earlier. Most have 5-7 leaf counts compared to the last grow of Doors and Nev's, where some plants exhibited upwards of 13 fingers. It is interesting to observe traits that have been passed on, i.e. the NH7 genes (tallest Nev's from my last grow) contribute to the tallest of the females in this grow and all plants have reduced axillary length due to The Doors parentage- not the long branching I have seen on the Neville’s Haze previously.

lots of diversity 9_8.jpg NH#7 moms 9_8.jpg

The Doors archetype I refer to has wider leaves, resembling Indica with more button-like dome top flowers and longer styluses, while the Neville’s has slightly elongated flowers. And while the Neville’s influence shows in extended branching albeit shorter in this iteration, the Doors influence has flowers on very short upright branching with most flowers appearing at the petiole bases.

doors archtype 9_8.jpg doors archtype round petiole based 9_8.jpg doors archtype long style 9_8.jpg
Doors characteristics- wider leaves, predominate domed tops, elongated stylus

If you mean domestication in terms of shorter, wider leaf morphology and suggested higher net rate of photosynthesis with this structure being prevalent in The Doors, I can’t speak to that intelligently. What I would say is that the Neville’s influence presents with more slender, longer leaves on longer side branches and through this, may present with equivalent leaf surface area which would result in similar net photosynthetic rates. What I can say for certain is that the Neville's genes are quite vigorous as demonstrated by their astounding vertical growth rates using the same amount of nutrient and I will be doing some bending to accommodate them :)

The Force is strong with you, my young Padawan!

🤙
Mu
 

musashi

Site Moderator
Staff member
Aloha Fish! Indeedy do. I am amazed at the strong influence of the Doors and I am thinking I got my wish which was for a shorter, more compact Nev's plant that I could crowd a bit in an ID grow room. As far as the males, upon reflection, I don't think my theory holds much sand at all. Must have been concocted during one of my reveries 🤪 I had tall as well as short males and I kept both for my pollination. Some were sparse-leafed others maybe had more leaves. I can see where combined genetics plays a hand in this. It's a journey for sure and glad to be but a member of this crew.

🤙
Mu
 

musashi

Site Moderator
Staff member
Aloha fellow Firewalkers!

4 weeks now and the seeding project is coming along nicely. Got my N dialed in better and as with @ENGLISH's thread, I will have to decide if I will harvest seed in several weeks time or bring plants to maturity. There is a fair amount of resin production already and so I am interested in what they might bring in terms of potency, smell, and taste. We shall see. Dilemma as my braddah @CannaFish would say. I have to keep remembering that there will be tomorrow's project with all the seed, yet I am also wondering what they would have turned out like in sinsemilla. I again remind myself that producing this seed is going to be more than worthwhile. Doors and Neville's combined- what's not to like? Patience, young padawan! Besides, it will be like old times, dried cannabis in the tray, sifting the seeds out ha. In my ohana, the religion and its ritual- we used to call it Bong-fu 🤣
As if that wasn't enough to think about, I just got another MNS package filled with all sorts of goodies. I am wanting to immediately sow some Stones and Critical Skunk seeds. The Holy Grail is also calling. Also included: MasterKushSkunk, NL5xHaze, The Cure, Shark Shock, Nordle, NL5xAfghan and some killer G13xAfghanSkunk! Choices- all good eh.

BDM seeded a 9_18.jpg

BDM seeded b 9_18.jpg

BDM seeded c 9_18.jpg

BDM seeded d 9_18.jpg

🤙
Mu
 

blowingupjake

Mothership Mod
So I have a little side by side going on....
first here’s my lone Nev Haze girl:
3F33B440-E9D1-4445-866C-0D7D2038BC98.jpeg
Then the two Doors x Nev Haze that I can get decent photos of:
54E54D85-6CC2-4825-88E0-1CB37C19ED80.jpeg3FD5F9F1-02DA-4DAD-BF1E-F492245E605E.jpeg

twoDxNH girls in front, NH girl in back:
0EEC89B6-6AD4-48E4-AB0F-ADC0CD4E38DF.jpeg
Nev Haze girl is taller but all 3 of the D6xNH14 have twice the flowers at this point.

exotic and beautiful looking stuff.
Stay hazed!
 

musashi

Site Moderator
Staff member
Aloha fellow Firewalkers!

This morning brings us to week 5 and a room full of pregnant girls. I can’t wait to try out the seeds from this latest cross of Neville’s females to Doors males, not to mention smoking the smoke. :love: The thought of combining the F2’s with a Holy Grail male coming from an upcoming HG grow has got me salivating. As of today, I have discarded the current males because I have not an inch of space left. It’s a shame that my greenhouse isn’t set up yet as I could use the extra room for male storage. The greenhouse will be ready next season, that’s for sure, as I am unwilling to let this great hobby be compromised due to lack of space. For now, let’s get to the plants.

Starting with the Doors archetypes i.e N4xD14, I think @blowingupjake is correct in his observation; overall, there does appear to be more bud sites with this cross. In addition, the tops are less dome shaped, showing perhaps some of the Neville’s influence. The Neville’s #4 mom was a less tall plant with a chunkier apical cola. Morphologically, there seems to be more Doors influence here, exhibiting the same height as their parents with minimal side branching. We’ve talked about this before re: a plant that can be crowded in an ID situation. If I get the citrusy potency that the Nev’s #4 mom had in this Doors package, it will be ideal for indoor grow. I did get some shorter plants within this group and they will be eliminated as the yield to time ratio needs to be considered.

N4xD14 #1 9_25.jpg N4xD14 #2 9_25.jpg
N4xD14

The N6xD6 plants on the other hand appear to have more of the Neville’s characteristics i.e. longer internodes and longer side branching, while still retaining dome tops and long pistils characteristic of The Doors.

N6xD6 #3 9_25.jpg N6xD6 #2 9_25.jpg
N6xD6

Another N6 plant mated to a D14 dad was the one Doors variant I noticed in the first Doors grow. More sativa-like with slightly longer node spacing and skinnier linear leaves, if she brings the bigger buds that mom had, she will be kept.

N6xD14 #1 9_25.jpg N6xD14 9_25.jpg
N6xD14

Lastly is the N7 prodigy from the N7xD14 mating. Like their mother, they are the most sativa-like; taller plants, longer fingers and less dense buds, though more bud sites. They certainly are not lacking in resin and seem to be packing it on early.

N7xD14 #1 9_25.jpg N7xD14 #4 9_25.jpg N7xD14 #3 9_25.jpg
N7xD14

I wanted this cross to accomplish the following: 1) more manageable plants for indoor growing, i.e 4-5 ft plants with minimal side branching, 2) larger, more plentiful bud sites, 3) resin production, 4) potency, smell, and taste, coming from the Haze AC genetics. Looks like I am off to a good start braddahs.


🤙
Mu
 

Islandgrower

Well-known member
LoVe the detail of your observations. They appear to be spot on. so far which traits do you see carrying over from the male and which from the female in the offspring. Terpenes structure etc.
Aloha fellow Firewalkers!

This morning brings us to week 5 and a room full of pregnant girls. I can’t wait to try out the seeds from this latest cross of Neville’s females to Doors males, not to mention smoking the smoke. :love: The thought of combining the F2’s with a Holy Grail male coming from an upcoming HG grow has got me salivating. As of today, I have discarded the current males because I have not an inch of space left. It’s a shame that my greenhouse isn’t set up yet as I could use the extra room for male storage. The greenhouse will be ready next season, that’s for sure, as I am unwilling to let this great hobby be compromised due to lack of space. For now, let’s get to the plants.

Starting with the Doors archetypes i.e N4xD14, I think @blowingupjake is correct in his observation; overall, there does appear to be more bud sites with this cross. In addition, the tops are less dome shaped, showing perhaps some of the Neville’s influence. The Neville’s #4 mom was a less tall plant with a chunkier apical cola. Morphologically, there seems to be more Doors influence here, exhibiting the same height as their parents with minimal side branching. We’ve talked about this before re: a plant that can be crowded in an ID situation. If I get the citrusy potency that the Nev’s #4 mom had in this Doors package, it will be ideal for indoor grow. I did get some shorter plants within this group and they will be eliminated as the yield to time ratio needs to be considered.

View attachment 46478 View attachment 46479
N4xD14

The N6 x D6 plants on the other hand appear to have more of the Neville’s characteristics i.e. longer internodes and longer side branching, while still retaining dome tops and long pistils characteristic of The Doors.

View attachment 46480 View attachment 46481
N6xD6

Another N6 plant mated to a D14 dad was the one Doors variant I noticed in the first Doors grow. More sativa-like with slightly longer node spacing and skinnier linear leaves, if she brings the bigger buds that mom had, she will be kept.

View attachment 46482 View attachment 46483
N6xD14

Lastly is the N7 prodigy from the N7xD14 mating. Like their mother, they are the most sativa-like; taller plants, longer fingers and less dense buds, though more bud sites. They certainly are not lacking in resin and seem to be packing it on early.

View attachment 46484 View attachment 46485 View attachment 46486
N7xD14

I wanted this cross to accomplish the following: 1) more manageable plants for indoor growing, i.e 4-5 ft plants with minimal side branching, 2) larger, more plentiful bud sites, 3) resin production, 4) potency, smell, and taste, coming from the Haze AC genetics. Looks like I am off to a good start braddahs.


🤙
Mu
 

musashi

Site Moderator
Staff member
@Islandgrower if you read my doors/nevilles thread:
It should bring you up to speed. I have yet to run lab tests to determine terpene profiles.

@CannaFish based on structure, I may keep one or two (the extreme Neville's and Doors expressions). I have so much seed to go through from this cross. As you will recall, I originally had 8 Neville's females and 3 Doors males to work within the Neville's group yielding 24 pollinated sites. This current grow uses 6 of the 24 seed groups. I have 3 more groups of 6 and will pick one from each group which will then give me 4 seed groups (24/6). I will then work within these 4 groups. As I will be initially judging by structure, the smoke test may have me starting from square one again. But so far my focus is on jungle vine morphology 😀 and yield. Keep in mind, this does not include the Doors females; also from the previous grow, providing me with another 30 seed groups, which I am eager to explore also. It is hoped to rejoin the best of this Doors group with the best of the Neville's group mentioned above.
A somewhat cock-eyed methodology, in the end, it is about curiousity and discovery wrapped in passion. These MNS sativa hybrids provide the fun in spades.


🤙
Mu
 

Shrimp&Grits

Active member
“But so far my focus is on jungle vine morphology 😀 and yield.”
“A somewhat cock-eyed methodology, in the end, it is about curiousity and discovery wrapped in passion. These MNS sativa hybrids provide the fun in spades.”

Those two caught my attention.
Your plants are so vibrant. Cheers to you good buddy. Always onward
 

musashi

Site Moderator
Staff member
Aloha fellow Firewalkers!

Back Door Man is positively scandalous lol. I appreciate the light hearted jokes of @Tom bolenate and @CannaFish. I confess to getting the title from Willie who put Howlin on the charts with it. Here are some pics of the N6xD6 expressions. In one instance, #2 is presenting some of mom's characteristics in NH structure and bigger bud. In the #3 instance, dad comes through in structure and longer pistils with bigger bud from mom. Lots of seed in this latest grow and looking forward to going down the rabbit hole on this one.🤙Mu

N6xD6#2 10_2.jpg

N6xD6#3a 10_2.jpg

N6xD6#3b 10_2.jpg


da blues with Willie and friends
 

musashi

Site Moderator
Staff member
Indeed, it was difficult for me to narrow down with 8 females; all were pretty good, having minor differences in yield, potency, smell. Not knowing what the males would bring was the unknown part. This grow gave me an idea how I am going to continue. Currently, out of the current 3 groups, I am favoring the the NH7 group for consistent structure, with most presenting with viney appearance. I am also favoring the D14 dad that seems to be contributing to resin production and adding more flower clusters. The NH6 group had variation in phenotypes ranging from long side branching (#2) and The Doors, short upright branching structure (#3) but the group is generally presenting with consistently larger buds. I am hoping to add more density to them in this cross. The stem rubs give me a dark citrusy smell with tones of fragrant wood similar to perhaps palo santo. The NH4 group presented with shorter plants and shorter side branching, buds on the short branches and mainstem nodes; more consistent with the Doors structure and some are already browning up.

N7xD14#3 10_9.jpg
NH7xD14 #2

N7xD14#1 10_9.jpg
NH7xD14 #3

N6xD6#2 10_9.jpg
NH6xD6 #1

N6xD6#3 10_9.jpg
NH6xD6 #3

As I said earlier, I am leaning towards the NH7 plants for structure and resin production and will probably select this but the NH6 plants intrigue me with NH6 #3 so far growing like a tall Doors plant and having a large apical bud loosely measuring 8" in circumference. While I know I should be selecting primarily for potency and yield, the long, viney ones with the upright clusters and the long, slender fingers make me go ding, ding, ding.




🤙
Mu
 

musashi

Site Moderator
Staff member
Aloha fellow Firewalkers!

Thanks for the kind words @shantibaba. It has been a pleasure working with the genetics and resulting medicines derived from your continued efforts to bring healing to the many.
Good to see our friend @Dkeppel coming back to the community after a short hiatus and as always @CannaFish is dependably knowledgeable and helpful. Lots of great folks here!

It is now the 9th week of flower. In an effort to gain some understanding of individual female contributions, I have been dipping into the bottles of Neville’s Haze, specifically, #4, #6, #7; the females used in this current cross/grow. Originally put up for cure the first week of April, it has now been 28 weeks. The smell is divine, a mixture of pine, citrus, spice and fuel. A few days ago, I started with the NH #4. I must confess I have not been the toke monster of late, what with a new good paying job to keep me somewhat connected to this mundane world. So, when I hit on #4 it immediately had an effect. I wondered how much my tolerance had suffered and so decided to smoke just over a third of a joint. My God I felt like someone hit me with a blackjack. I lost my balance several times and ended up getting a whitey, lying down for an hour to get rid of the dizziness. NH #7 is up now and it’s just waves of clouds, stair-stepping upwards. It made me scrunch up my nose with its slight acridity. Two tokes only, don’t want a repeat of the other day lol. This fine herb makes for a challenging selection going forward. This tournament of champions that Fish speaks of? Man, it’s gonna be hard picking the winners :unsure:. Well, I best get to watering. Here's what I have so far

The N6xD14’s have nice confirmation overall. This single female is the most Doors-like with short side-branching, nodal buds and 4 foot stature. I like what I see here though only one female.
N6xD14#1 10_24.jpg

The smaller N4xD14’s had the weakest stems needing support. Knowing what I know of the N4 mom, I am reluctant to put this group in the eliminate category though she is a bit wispy.
N4xD14#1 10_24.jpg

The N6xD6 plants show the difference in parents with some presenting in Doors-like structure with larger buds while the other dominant ones are vinier like their moms with slightly denser apicals. Both are resin producers.
N6xD6#3 10_24.jpg
N6xD6#2 10_24.jpg

The N7xD14’s have my eye as most show up like the N7 mom with long tapered apicals, clustered upright buds on viny stems. They have the stoutest stems out of the entire group as well. These also have a fair amount of resin. A lot of females in this group and it will be interesting if this is repeated in subsequent germs of this seed. Due to this morphology, I am hoping these have the potency to match the eye candy. I hope, I hope, I hope.
N7xD14#4 10_24.jpg
N7xD14#2 10_24.jpg
N7xD14#3 10_24.jpg

They have an assortment of great smells, spice, pine, fuel and meat. So far, the N7xD14 group followed by the N6xD6 group are what I am interested in because of structure and resin production. Though, I would like to find out more about that N6xD14 seed. 4-6 more weeks? Patience, my young Padawan!


🤙
Mu
 

musashi

Site Moderator
Staff member
Aloha fellow Firewalkers!

I am into the 10th week of flower. On the last grow, the Neville's came in at 17 weeks while the Doors came in at 13 weeks. I am planning for 15 weeks for this cross. Hoping most will come within the 14 week window.

The N4 cross is fully seeded showing elevated anthocyanin levels as leaves are purpling. Some of the Doors do have this attribute. All the pistils are brown on the phenos but the trichomes remain clear. Deep ripe fruit, fragrant wood.
N4xD14#1 10_31.jpg

The N7’s are filling in with density as well as exuding a good amount of resin. The plants appear to be denser in bud and I attribute that to the Doors dad. Foxtailing like their mom. Citrusy.
N7xD14#3 10_31.jpg
N7xD14#1 10_31.jpg

The N6xD14 looks like the taller pheno version of the Doors with longer internodes and buds exhibiting some foxtailing.
N6xD14#1 10_31.jpg

N6xD6, a taller Doors pheno version has a bit more girth to it with bigger buds taking up the internodal spaces. Almost looking like a critical mass with skinny leaves lol. She is very appealing with buds tightening up. I like the looks of this. I will try to recycle her.
N6xD6#3 10_31.jpg

I am looking forward to the finish. I will yield a good amount of seed to continue this project in the future as a result of my open pollination. I might even reveg a few, take clones and use the Holy Grail males on them. I see a buttload of work though and wonder when I’ll be able to get back to it. There is the Holy Smoke and Grail to look at, and it would also be nice to grow a bunch of Critical Skunk for a change. Gotta get that greenhouse up soon lol.


🤙
Mu
 
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