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Marcus_in_the_Darkus 01-06-2018 11:34 PM

Mark grows some MNS Nev's crosses
Hello MNS Brethren! I'm going to flower 6 Grail Widow and 3 Neville's Haze Mango plants in this grow log. I'm posting this thread in the Neville's Haze forum even though I'm not growing NH, but crosses of NH. My reasoning is that, as much as I want to (and eventually will) grow NH, Shanti has already selected some fine NH moms that he used in crosses such as Neville's Haze Mango, Neville's Skunk, and Grail Widow. From what I've read, maybe 5% of NH plants are keepers, and because I can run only about 10 plants at a time, I think I'll have a better chance of finding something special in the NH crosses. Also, there's no forum for Grail Widow and the GW grow threads are spread out all over the place, so this one goes here.

I've been particularly intrigued by some of the Grail Widow grow reports, so I picked up a straw of GW direct from MNS. The straw contained 16 seeds, so I popped 8 of them on 16 November 2017, but only 6 germed for a 75% germination rate. Because I had room for more than 6 plants, I popped three Neville's Haze Mango seeds, and they all came up. The 9 plants have been vegging under LED shop lights for about 6-7 weeks now. I topped them at about 6 weeks and was unsuccessful in getting the cuts to root. I still suck at getting clones to root. I gave up on my bubble cloner and began using a propagation dome, thermostat-controlled heat mat and rapid rooters, but I screwed up and let standing water saturate the Rapid Rooters, so the stems rotted before they rooted. Because my Angel's Breathe grow is nearly complete and the flower tent will be available shortly, I decided that rather than waiting to flower clones, I'm going to mainline the seed plants, taking as many cuts as I can, transplant and veg them for about a week and then flower them. I expect these NH crosses to stretch a lot but I think I can keep things under control if I mainline for 4 colas per plant.

This will be my fourth grow, and my second MNS grow. I'm flowering with a 12-12 cycle in a 4' x 4' tent under 600W of COBs, and flashing a 12W 730 Ám far red for 5 minutes before and 15 minutes after lights out. Plants will be in 4-gal hempy buckets in coco coir.

So I have some work to do in the garden this weekend and will snap a few pics of the grow as I get the plants ready to flower. Stay tuned.

beauthebulldog 01-07-2018 12:34 PM

Hi Marcus.
Great to see you growing these plants. Hope it goes well for you!
Hope I'm not being condescending, but I'm wondering if some of your cloning troubles may be due to using the main stem, as these can be tricky to root, with their thin walls and soft tissues, and can be very prone to rot.
A lower stem, cut close to the main stem (not always easy with long stems), would be a bit more tough and woody, and may root more easily.
And yes, they will stretch a lot. A pain in the arse until you can select/tie down, or flower small clones, so yes, good luck!

59lespaul 01-07-2018 08:20 PM

I also like to cut longer than I'm going to initially use, and then do my final cut, with the stem underwater, so no air bubbles get in. Watch out for giving to much light, as that can make them want to grow, vs developing roots, and they will dehydrate trying to grow, with no roots.

Also don't let the mat/roots ect get to warm, as it can cause fungus/infection. I like the root zone to be 74-77 degrees. 75 being what I strive for.

I also like rooting gel, but can also do just as well without it.

I also would use the woodiest parts that I can. I'll often just cut off whole branches, and cut them ( clones ) at each node.

wwwwww 01-07-2018 09:16 PM

Loved the angels breathe thread. Remember though, wait a bit before you trash a plant. They change throughout flower, and it is the final product that really matters. That’s the only change I’d like to see in this new grow. Anyway, best of luck to you with this grow mark. Hope you find your holy grail plant.

Marcus_in_the_Darkus 01-08-2018 06:13 PM

Thanks for the feedback, advice and encouragement, folks. I think I've solved my cloning woes as I've gotten 3 clones to root now that I desaturated the Rapid Rooters, and I cut a bunch more the other day when I mainlined the seed plants.

Here's GW1, GW2 and GW3 (l-r). GW1 gave me a nice surprise when a stem bub returned not only nice smells, but sticky fingertips. A look through the loupe shows good proto-trichome coverage, always a good sign in veg. I'm keeping my eye on this one.

Left to right, GW6, GW7 and GW8.

These are the Nev's Haze Mango plants, NHM1, NHM2 and NHM3 (l-r). In the local dialect, NHM1 is a "monstah!"

Here's a summary. Heights taken after I topped the plants the second time for 4 colas.

bb247 01-10-2018 07:34 AM

Great growlogging MarcusintheDarkus. I wish I could keep track like that but I think I'm running too many :-p

Jam on

Marcus_in_the_Darkus 01-12-2018 08:33 PM

I let the trained and manifolded seed plants veg in my veg cabinet for a couple days while I cleaned out the grow pots, replaced the coco media, etc. Then I transplanted the seed plants and two rooted clones to 4-gallon hempy buckets, using mycorrhizae to give the roots a little boost. Because I have seen early trichomes on GW1, and because I got a rooted clone of that plant, I decided to add a clone of GW1 to the grow. Also a clone of GW7. Other cuttings are still rooting.

I may have seriously stressed out NHM1, the monstah, by taking too much growth off when I topped the plant for 4 colas. I probably took too much off all the plants, as some of them are now looking really scrawny when they were nice and bushy before. I moved the plants into the flower tent where I will veg them for a week to 10 days under 600W of COBs before flipping to 12/12. Hopefully they'll look a bit greener and bushier when I post my next pic at the flip.

Back row (l-r): NHM1, NHM2, NHM3, GW3
Middle row (l-r): GW1 clone, GW1, GW2, GW6
Front row (l-r): GW7 clone, GW7, GW8

I'm a little worried about how big GW1 and NHM are, and how far they'll stretch. If I get a lot of females it's going to be crazy in the tent.

Marcus_in_the_Darkus 01-19-2018 05:18 PM

Ready for the flip
The plants have made good progress vegging under 600W of COBs on an 18/6 schedule for the last week. They're getting a 650 ppm solution of GH 6/9/2 ml/gal micro/grow/calimag, and will for the next few weeks. I'm going to flip them to 12/12 tomorrow. No preflowers (surprising, given their age) but GW1 looks like a girl which would be great because I've still got my eye on this plant. Great smell in veg, sticky stalk and petioles, and more developed trichomes.

Let the show begin!

Back row (l-r): NHM1, NHM2, NHM3, GW1
Middle row: GW1 clone, GW2, GW3, GW6
Front row: GW7 clone, GW7, GW8

Marcus_in_the_Darkus 02-02-2018 08:20 PM

At F12 the clones are stretching like crazy (over 5x so far!!), but the mainlined seed plants are very much under control, as they are all between 20" and 26" tall. The three NHM plants gave me 1 male and 2 females. Of the six GW plants, I have 3 females, 2 males, while GW8 stubbornly refuses to show sex. So I'll have 6 or 7 girls to flower out, and it will be a crowded tent, but manageable. The tent smells nice when I open it up, but not overwhelming. Getting nice limey haze smells, with the NHMs definitely sweeter while the GWs have a bit more funk and character at this stage. I got a bit of an onion smell from GW3, which was interesting.

I'm going to keep a careful eye on the males over the next 10 days or so and keep them in the tent as long as I dare before they start shooting pollen, then I'll move them into a room with a south-facing window and collect pollen, which will be used to make F2s and also frozen. I'll be keeping a careful eye on them and test smoke the tops. I may top the GW1 male clone now, try to root the cuttings (as I don't have any rooted clones of this plant), and try to squeeze him into the 2-ft-tall flowering chamber for randy males.

Here's an executive summary. I'll post some pics over the weekend.

thefoetus 02-02-2018 09:56 PM

Nice thread, Marcus! Love the detailed spreadsheet. Will be following along, as we have a some Nev Mango and some Widow Grail on the way. I'm not sure whether 'Widow Grail' differs from 'Grail Widow' or if its the same seed?

We were new to cloning, until recently, and had similar results with our first couple of attempts. We're definitely still working on our method; 59lespaul & beauthebulldog seem to make useful suggestions above.

Good luck with the grow!


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