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  #101  
Old 11-26-2014, 01:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mary Mary View Post
G`day PMB

As Nevil / Sensi wouldn`t ship to Oz the name game never caught on here .
Its either shit , ok , or primo .

Mention RKS , Haze , G13 etc to most Ozzie smokers and you will get a curious look . They don`t know what your talkin about .

I`ve been trying to educate folks down here for years . Still hasn`t caught on .
Yup same here, it's either good or crap and has been like that ever since i procured my first bag 25+ years ago.

I remember a time before i stopped smoking at the end of the 90's, someone said they had Northern Lights, all we wanted to know if it was any good, didnt care about the name.

Been back at it for a short time and it's still the same as far as i can tell.
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  #102  
Old 11-26-2014, 02:03 AM
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i like that

you cant get dissapointed by nameless
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  #103  
Old 11-27-2014, 12:19 PM
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OK, I can't remember what I posted originally (I haven't re-read it..) and I was upset when I posted it... completely skint and I can't afford to have a sackful of unwanted hay...but that's the risks you take...

I AM SORRY FOR ANY OFFENCE CAUSED.

It was just that I had 3 bad grows in a row of MNS and I'm not sure that I did very much wrong in any of the 3. Most other breeder's plants would have been fine - but Hazes can be fickle.
I am shocked at how many replies there are...I haven't had time to read them as I am busy being a Dad at the moment but I promise I will.

My point is this - and most will agree - that whenever somebody says they had a Nev's that was Fire (such as my much respected friend, FX) it was from a CUT. Who has found fire from a seed of a recent pack? I am sure a few.. but how many packs sold?

If it is 1:100 Fire:Hay(or ordinary...) then you could actually go through 200 plant s and conceivably not find one.. Who can afford that?
That's not even a variety... you could plant 200 seeds of ANYTHING and find a superb plant!!!!!

Even if it takes 50 females to find 'The One', that's 49 wasted plants. I get a lot from a plant but even if you average it out at 3 oz per plant, at today's prices that's about £500 -£600 per plant. X 50 is £25,000 to £30,000.

That plant better fucking get up in the morning, make my toast then get back in bed and give me a fucking blow job for that much money. I can barely afford to feed my little boy. £30k for a keeper. WTF?

AND it's FULL WHACK for a pack of seeds. What is it? £130 per pack. When you need say, 6 or 7 packs (and that's if it is only 50 females...) So FUCK THE OPPORTUNITY COST of the lost skunk you could have grown from your favourite cut (such as my stunning AK47 x LV LemonSkunk...) it will ACTUALLY COST YOU £1000 just for the seeds!!!!!


I don't want to hear about stunning cuttings. This is about SEEDS. If Shanti doesn't even promise a decent female in a whole packet then he shouldn't charge so much. It should be £130 per keeper, which would make it about £13 per pack...

As for the grow...well, I grew another Nev's Haze seed plant alongside it and it grew well in the same environment.. it was shita like African Bush weed - pretty shit. It was the genetics of that plant. It looked like fire at first and smelt lovely but upped and finished at 8 weeks every time (I tried a couple of times in different mud but you have to stop blaming the conditions at some point...) and just tasted like immature grass, which is what it was.

Maybe there is a way to make that plant work but I grow in a grow room, not a laboratory and I can't be fucked with fussy-as-hell get-it-right-or-be-damned plants.

Waste of money. Grow an American Sativa style Skunk instead (they still have Skunk over there like we had here before Nev fucked it up with Afghan genetics...) You ALWAYS get beautiful funky stink. From EVERY plant. In 8 weeks, not 14.

I'm fed up with this hoodwink. It is just a cynical scam to make Howard more money.

Surely a good F1 is consistently better and predictable? That's the whole point.

I no longer consider this an actual variety. They are just, well, kinda random sativa lucky dip seed which a couple of well know growers managed to find great plants out of but which Shanti charges about £10 a seed for, because of the myths.

I would prefer to have my money back, to be honest. Don't waste yours.
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  #104  
Old 11-27-2014, 02:09 PM
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I can understand your frustrations, esp with responsibilities and pressures that are part and parcel of everyday life nowadays. Its very difficult to be able to put your finger on what went wrong, and a lot easier to lash out at anyone or anything looking for someone or something to blame. Im not saying you are, but a little reflection over time may lead you to different conclusions.

TBH Grover, if you were in a pickle, a tight spot and had little room for manoeuvre or margin of error, and a lot was resting on these crops, why did you pick THE MOST DIFFICULT plant out of the MNS stable? Surely you would stray far from Haze, knowing the chances of pulling off a short flowering producer of any commercial value. It just seems a bad choice in my opinion. I have waited over 19 weeks for a seed to finish only to realise the wait wasnt worth it. But it wasnt a time that I was banking on the outcome.

Now about your calculations, I disagree. If your avg pack has 20 seeds (all the ones i got from auction have AT LEAST this amount) and you buy 5 packs, you have 100 seeds. Are you really of the opinion that a keeper cannot be found in 100 plants??? And at a max cost of £500 if its Nevs Haze) for a keeper? Well ive known cuts to be sold for more!!!! Even seeds (look at recent Alien Genetics seeds auction - think $5k was reached on a single pack)

Truth is, you are gutted with the result, and you cant place blame in one place, if only life were that simple. Probably a result of a cumulative mistakes, some yours, some natures, some genetics.

I really hope you have better luck with MNS and dont write off the breeder based on a bad experience. I got seeds over 10 years old from Shanti that germed in 24 hrs from Shanti, grew as vigorous as if they were produced last month. I wont knock the genetics. Breeders invest years into their plants, and that to me is the effort, the sweat and tears that keeps a company moving forward.
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  #105  
Old 11-27-2014, 02:16 PM
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Hey Grover!

Good to read you. I hear you loud and clear, but can't say I completely agree with everything. I empathize with your frustration but still think NH is legendary breeding stock. I happen to think Shanti feels just like you do about the seed, and that, for that very reason, decided to create cultivars like Grail Widow. Not sure if he revealed the cross but it is his NH female crossed to his BW male. Even you agree that there are great female cuts out there, I think it makes perfect sense that Shanti would go this route to ensure we get some idea of NH in all its glory. And I am here to tell you, my man, that the smoke that comes off GW is NOT hay. It is straight sativa fire, scary shit no doubt, with no ceiling and a super long duration. Stuff is easily better for outdoors or having fun, but can put you in a corner hiding if you don't watch yourself. I am scared to share this shit. The last person I let try it (just 2 or 3 hits!) had to be driven home, and the person before that reported being "too high". After a 6+ month cure (I forget how long ago I actually grew it) it continues to floor me while tasting "smooth" and smelling of subtle sweet fruit when ground...and I have QP bags and bags and bags of it left. Sativa plants are fun and worth working with, that is my conclusion. If the plant you want is not in the F1s then it could still easily be in the F2s, so TO ME 15-18 beans is enough to begin the search. Shanti is not selling you a specific plant, he is selling the opportunity to search for your favorite plant in a very specific gene pool. I think that's priceless. Just thought I'd share my feelings on this. I respect your opinion and appreciate your honesty, and hope all is well with you and your lil bro.

M.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shantibaba
But to dispel incorrect information about MNS using different plants or better plants coming from more original seed is just false...It may be smart to remind most of you who do not know that since the beginning of plant work for MNS and other companies all mother and father plants were always controlled and put into production by myself as Nevil lives on the other side of the world and Howard does not do the plants.
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  #106  
Old 11-27-2014, 03:40 PM
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Quote:
he is selling the opportunity to search for your favorite plant in a very specific gene pool.
makes no sense to pay for a search without findings, thats not priceless, thats just stupid

why are you now involving GW, as if you dont know that this is shantis backup excuse for "sensi seeding" the NH, why is it that he made that cross, not bc of nevil, bc the parents of nh are no longer alive, so take your/his best and try to hype em

good ol nh was and is better than any GW will be, but thats all history and memories

all that a grower and of course the thread starter here expected were plants that are better than the best sellers like ssh, which looking at the pedigree (on the first view) wouldnt be a hard task, the contrary should be the case

there was a time when every plant of nl5h pack was a keeper potency wise, you hadnt to select for potency, now imagine what kind of crossing partner is needed to downwater that once so great cross

of course there will pop up a recessive potent phenotype now and then in a few packs of nh, but again what has this to do with the so called "bottle-necking quality" attitude?
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  #107  
Old 11-27-2014, 05:16 PM
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Hey Herbsman,

The pickle grow was actually Critical Haze - should be an easy commercial grow... but it frustrated me and I lashed out against all 3 recent strains that have been bland and disappointing..

I hear you, though...

My calculations are a little sketchy but even Nev reckons you need 40 females to find a good one... that's 80 seeds...4 packs... and that's if you believe Nev wasn't being 'generous' and are not unlucky...

Morphote,

I honestly believe you about Grail Widow but I can't put my hand on my heart and recommend Nev's Haze to anybody. They will almost undoubtedly be disappointed. Nevil himself questioned whether the parents had experienced 'genetic drift' after so many years of being kept alive (if, indeed they still are - it's all a bit mysterious and really doesn't need to be..) He actually said that he had no evidence that they had but wasn't willing to use any modern Nev's seeds to find himself a plant...just in case...

I know what a good sativa is but find that I can actually smoke some if I grow some Panamanian or Mexican seeds but never seem to with haze hybrids. The few monsters I found actually contained just too much NL to be considered true sativas (a SSH and a Mango, both from way back when..) A true sativa shouldn't have any NL in it...

There may be some good indica/haze hybrids (though recently I haven't smoked any) but if you are looking for a sativa - don't bother with this plant. DO NOT. Unless you get a bona-fide cutting from someone who can guarantee it.

Like I said, a good F1 is predictable and stable. That's the point of the breeder's work... perhaps the NHxBW is...this isn't.

Also, my plants must taste LOVELY - not like wet hay or poo or baby sick. It is an absolute necessity for any keepers. Hell, we call our different strains our 'flavours' round here - that tells you everything about what is important to the smokers here... bland weed is no good and I have smoked way too much of that recently... (looking in your direction, ESH and Critical Haze..)

It is wrong to only give positive reviews. You must be honest and balanced and there comes a time when you have to stop blaming the grower. A LOT of people come on this site saying that they have problems and it we ALWAYS say that it is their own fault. Perhaps the plants are just too fussy..a superb plant that is too fussy for anybody to actually grow is not actually a superb plant.

I have had 3 MNS grows in a row. All resulting in bland and tasteless hay. I now consider MNS seeds too much of a risk. Make 1 small mistake and all your weed turns to hay? Not for me, thanks. Who can flower a plant for 14 weeks and not make a single mistake?

Perhaps the flavours are getting old and stale or maybe I'm just tiring of them but I find these herbs dull and lifeless. It's all weed but none of it excites me like other stuff does..
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  #108  
Old 11-27-2014, 06:36 PM
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Quote:
even Nev reckons you need 40 females to find a good one
lol that makes no sense at all

it takes maybe 40 original hazes to find the good one, when found theyve crossed it to nl5 - that makes a nice hybrid where no selection is needed, bc in f1 there is no recessive low potency info

now cross it to that other haze to get to the NH, now we are splitting up the genes, variations occuring within the progeny, but the numbers cant match, its pure math

of course thats the old NH

maybe those 40 females are the new calculation for the "new" NH

on an other view on things, nl5 is potent a5 and c5 are also potent indicating that Ha and Hc are also potent, so you have 3 parents beeing potent , but the offspring is hay as somebody wrote ... its not logical at all, especially in the lights of the possibility shanti has for big selections

who is responisible for the "hay", the thai in nl, or within haze, the mex, the lumbo, the indian, the affy part
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  #109  
Old 11-28-2014, 12:28 AM
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NH is most likely to turn into hay, but that has nothing to do with genetics, but rather it's shape.
Here I made an attempt to explain why, that applies especially to NH (indoors too).
I guess it also explains what makes NH a “difficult” plant.

Because of it's tall and lanky shape the vertical potential gradiant (VPG) is much higher (compared to shorter bushier plants) making the plants and terpenes burn a lot faster resulting in a smoke that literally tastes like hay.
Burning the plants ruins the taste and thus most of the effect.


Last edited by Bubbleblower; 11-28-2014 at 12:38 AM. Reason: close up of burning spraying leafs due to high VPG
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  #110  
Old 11-28-2014, 02:32 AM
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no sir, i cant attest that

bc of this

http://www.mrnice.nl/forum/5-strain-...inal-haze.html
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