Mr. Nice Forums  
Home History Strains Media Web Community Medical Marijuana Contact us Auctions

Go Back   MNS Forums > Medicinal plants > 9. Patients forum

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 06-11-2017, 09:37 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 297
Default

Neurotoxic Effects of 5-MeO-DIPT: A Psychoactive Tryptamine Derivative in Rats (2016)

Quote:
In summary, the results of our study demonstrate that exposure of rats to the tryptamine hallucinogen 5-MeO-DIPT produces changes in extracellular serotonin, dopamine, and glutamate levels in cortical and subcortical rat brain regions. Our findings also support the conclusion that hallucinations after administration of tryptamine analogues may be mediated by changes in glutamatergic neurotransmission. The progressive oxidative damage of DNA produced by a single dose of 5-MeO-DIPT indicates development of oxidative stress and suggests marked neurotoxicity of this drug.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 06-11-2017, 04:24 PM
bluntmassa's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: outlaw country,USA
Posts: 1,346
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tkadm30 View Post
I disagree. Opiates addiction are a real problem. With the sole exception of cannabis, I think that most street drugs are potentially dangerous and not worth the risks.

I really do not recommend anyone to use cannabis as a gateway drug to experiment with harder drugs! Btw, bluntmassa, I'm pro-legalization of cannabis but not for the legalization of drugs in general. Since you cannot analyze the content of most street drugs, its very difficult for someone to control the quality and to identify the drug. Likewise, it's very easy for a scumbag dealer to resell potentially hazardous substances (fentanyl) as something else. (cocaine) I heard fentanyl is cheap to produce theses days.

I suspect cocaine is harder to produce, so people gets tricked in buying fentanyl instead. With cannabis this is not a problem. You can almost immediately recognize organic cannabis to the smell, colour, aroma, and taste.

Since I've never used DMT, I don't know what it may look like and how my brain would respond to this chemical. I think this is like playing russian roulette...

Peace

tkadm30
The point of legalization is to get rid of street drugs people have laced marijuana with PCP and shit. You take it off the street they will be able to buy 10mgs of heroin or cocaine and not need to worry about fentanyl laced shit.

You sell fentanyl as heroin on a legal market you will be charged with murder street drugs are not regulated they will actually sell a hot bag just because the junkies will come running for that street brand because they think it's stronger.

Also heroin has been illegal about 100 years and their is more than ever available on the streets we are having record opiate overdose deaths and majority is fentanyl. It's the #1 killer of people under 30 years old I believe it was. Legalization and regulation is the only way to stop the epidemic.

You also don't want to buy DMT on the streets many people are selling RC's Recreational Chemicals even as LSD and that shit could kill you. You can make DMT it's not too easy but ayahuasca is easy to make. Pretty much why I mostly do shrooms and weed.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 06-11-2017, 04:46 PM
musashi's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: in a galaxy far, far away
Posts: 1,336
Default Love not war

By the title of your last post sounds like you're all ready to go to battle. Bet you still believe that staid 911 story too haha.
You mentioned trauma treatment, I offered another point of view. You seem to be invested in western medicine (one side of the story,) you're theories, and need to be right. You are convinced tryptamine is neurotoxic, you state that people are tricked using fentanyl because cocaine is hard to get. Are you kidding? You obviously don't know the difference between the two and their mechanisms of action. When speaking of "psychedelics," you state that you don't understand these substances, have no experience, and so disparage them. You clearly don't understand the function of neurotransmitters.
For many centuries ayahuasca, peyote, mushrooms and other similar medicines have been used to cure many diseases. Are you saying this is not true? Are you saying that indigenous medicine men who have practiced all their lives, benefitting from handed-down wisdom of their fathers and grandfathers, have and are familiar with these substances, somehow don't understand more than some lab-coated person working on lesser animals in a limited environment? Are you saying that everyone who had ever taken these substances is brain damaged? Are you saying these wonderful medicines are of no benefit? My friend, I have personally witnessed cancer cures resulting from the taking of ayahuasca, peyote, as well as marijuana. Yes, this voodoo works even when all the analytical shit fails to explain it.
If you want to make a case for your dream therapy that's great but to come on strong, negating medicines that have been shown to be beneficial is short-sighted.

Aloha
M
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 06-11-2017, 05:11 PM
bluntmassa's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: outlaw country,USA
Posts: 1,346
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tkadm30 View Post
Wow. Thats some serious BS or pseudoscientific VooDoo. DMT is the right tool for the job in case you seriously want to damage your brain circuits beyond repair.

See:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5047954/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4462041/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Drugs/comme...toxic_as_meth/

Bottom line: DMT is neurotoxic (it is a tryptamine).
Marijuana is neuroprotective.
You do the math...
It's been used for thousands of years.... Those are studies on 5-meo-dipt not DMT one is natural one is a synthetic research chemical. DMT is schedule 1 like marijuana you will not find actual research. I can find you all kinds of studies about marijuana being a horrible drug but I can't find any deaths like DMT.

A bit like the cannabinoid receptors we have opiate receptors too are we supposed to use opium? Lol, science is not always correct they just have theories. In reality we are not that smart everything about global warming comes from super computers that show us possibilities a bit like hurricane tracking they are never right they show a bunch of possibilities. We know the ancient Incan's used ayahuasca for thousands of years and still do to this day they also chewed coca leaves and built some shit on Egyptian levels possibly even better. Can't be too bad if they still use it.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 06-11-2017, 11:17 PM
PlantManBee's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,223
Default

tkadm30 you are jumping to conclusions. That is ONE paper and it's not even the same chemical. also, note the word MAY. FFS.

DMT is an endogenous chemical. again, FFS.
__________________
Blurring the boundaries between plants and animals since '64
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 06-12-2017, 12:11 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 297
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PlantManBee View Post
tkadm30 you are jumping to conclusions. That is ONE paper and it's not even the same chemical. also, note the word MAY. FFS.

DMT is an endogenous chemical. again, FFS.
Nope. DMT is a tryptamine alkaloid, just like 5-MeO-DIPT. You can study 5-MeO-DIPT as a model for understanding its potential neurotoxicity.

See: Behavioural and neurotoxic effects of ayahuasca infusion (Banisteriopsis caapi and Psychotria viridis) in female Wistar rat. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26049017

And: Tryptamine induces axonopathy and mitochondriopathy mimicking neurodegenerative diseases via tryptophanyl-tRNA deficiency. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24117115

So, please tell me why advocating for using DMT on a pro-cannabis forum unless you want to promote the use of potentially neurotoxic drugs as a substitute for weed? I suspect that many users of this forum are not mature yet and will take your DMT advocacy without analyzing the risks...

To induce lucid control of your dreams, I believe there's nothing *safer* than enhancing your endogenous cannabinoid system by taking breaks of smoking pot.

Last edited by tkadm30; 06-12-2017 at 07:37 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 06-12-2017, 06:54 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 297
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by musashi View Post
By the title of your last post sounds like you're all ready to go to battle. Bet you still believe that staid 911 story too haha.
You mentioned trauma treatment, I offered another point of view. You seem to be invested in western medicine (one side of the story,) you're theories, and need to be right. You are convinced tryptamine is neurotoxic, you state that people are tricked using fentanyl because cocaine is hard to get. Are you kidding? You obviously don't know the difference between the two and their mechanisms of action. When speaking of "psychedelics," you state that you don't understand these substances, have no experience, and so disparage them. You clearly don't understand the function of neurotransmitters.
For many centuries ayahuasca, peyote, mushrooms and other similar medicines have been used to cure many diseases. Are you saying this is not true? Are you saying that indigenous medicine men who have practiced all their lives, benefitting from handed-down wisdom of their fathers and grandfathers, have and are familiar with these substances, somehow don't understand more than some lab-coated person working on lesser animals in a limited environment? Are you saying that everyone who had ever taken these substances is brain damaged? Are you saying these wonderful medicines are of no benefit? My friend, I have personally witnessed cancer cures resulting from the taking of ayahuasca, peyote, as well as marijuana. Yes, this voodoo works even when all the analytical shit fails to explain it.
If you want to make a case for your dream therapy that's great but to come on strong, negating medicines that have been shown to be beneficial is short-sighted.

Aloha
M
My friend, do you realise that your advocacy for DMT on a pro-cannabis forum is quite irresponsible? Can't you understand that younger peoples may be influenced by your rhetoric? It is our responsability to educate our childrens for responsible behavior, in regard of drug use. This imply not to advocate for experimenting with more powerful drugs just because it is a "indigenous" medicine.

I trust that we have far more knowledge today than in ancient times to assert the potential neurotoxicity of DMT. Likewise, I'm confident that we still have lot to research on the effects of chronic cannabis on the brain, in particular in the area of sleep regulation and lucid dreaming. Some users reports to have no problem sleeping with weed, some are reporting to not dream at all. I still argue that endocannabinoid mobilization is essential for proper sleep regulation, and that taking tolerance breaks from weed is a way to restore your endocannabinoid system and induce lucid dreams.
__________________
The bliss of ignorance is deeper in the region of tyranny.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 06-12-2017, 08:09 PM
PlantManBee's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,223
Default

Yes it is a tryptamine, it also occurs in our cerebrospinal fluid naturally. i'm not going to pursue this further. enjoy your rant.

the reason you need and MAOI to experience it orally is because we naturally have enzymes that degrade it, pretty much immediately. This is because it occurs naturally in our bodies as subunits of neurotransmitters.
__________________
Blurring the boundaries between plants and animals since '64

Last edited by PlantManBee; 06-12-2017 at 08:20 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 06-13-2017, 09:36 AM
PatientZero's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 139
Default

Either
it's just dreams man...

Or
there is something out there man...

whichever school you feel akin to, if you do not look into the world and don't talk to anybody, basically go amish then you might never get in contact with the extraordinary quality of some dreams, drug-induced/enhanced or not. But since most cultures found there own way to trance-states its pretty obvious to most folks that there is not only something but sumtin good and of value in them dream bubbles.
Which is why i slammed that door shut
i don't dream when i'm loaded so i do not stop smoking till i meet Tupac.
But seriously, i find that smoking and dozing in the sunlight is quite inducive to freakish dreams of all sorts. That is if you aren't puffing on a dreamkiller strain.
Never ruined my weed experience by trying any hallucinogens and in retrospect i could not be happier about that, however i would never deny the results in all fields that profited of the use/help of these substances and practices. If Ayahuasca can get people off of cocaine adiction i'd say take a trip my friend. But getting into the synthetic vs natural debate here for a moment - can anyone tell me whether there is a difference in the experience at all with the different types? I am asking about loss of efficacy as we see in the isolation attempts of THC-medicines that failed without the corresponding noids and diols. So is the experience of synthDMT more of a ride wheras the real deal will get you where you need to go? Also is the duration of the shortlived high of smoked synthDMT even comparable to the hourlong extreme diet with the barfing and all the other fun stuff... watched Graham Hancock go on and on about his drug experiences watched McKenna and read Albert Hofmann's Sorgenkind LSD, read Huxley and bunch of other stuff all coming to the conclusion that there is something there that there is loads of value and that we are not spending a dime tapping into that seemingly unlimited potential, i mean who really needs another Srinivasa Ramanujan or an Edison or a James Joyce, they can dream on their own time
end of rant
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 06-13-2017, 05:35 PM
musashi's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: in a galaxy far, far away
Posts: 1,336
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tkadm30 View Post
Nope. DMT is a tryptamine alkaloid, just like 5-MeO-DIPT. You can study 5-MeO-DIPT as a model for understanding its potential neurotoxicity.
Just as there are many opioid derivatives (molecules), so too many tryptamine molecules. Some opioid derivatives are more powerful than others, morphine vs codeine. Some opioids are beneficial others not so much. This is true of tryptamines. 5-meO-DMT (NOT DIPT,) derived from Bufo alvarious is stronger than DMT or psilocin. However milking toads for this alkaloid is not recommended except for the most experienced.
It is not wise to take a specific class of drugs/alkaloids and group them all together as if they are all bad because the differences in their molecular structure can and will influence our bodies in different ways both positively or negatively. It is also not wise to cite incorrect studies that are not peer reviewed to make your case. Additionally, when reading studies make sure to consider the purpose of the work, how it is set up, and most importantly where the grant monies came from. Most monies funding these studies these days come from entities with an agenda looking for a predetermined outcome.
Oh btw, did you know that other tryptamines include serotonin and melatonin?

Aloha
M
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT. The time now is 09:23 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
All rights reserved, MR NICE SEEDBANK, NL