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  #411  
Old 01-06-2011, 08:15 AM
Nevil's Avatar
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Plant traits correlated with generation time directly affect inbreeding depression and mating system and indirectly genetic structure
Where's the meat? It's primarily about selfing.
N.
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  #412  
Old 01-06-2011, 08:16 AM
Donald Mallard
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Originally Posted by Nevil View Post
Chrysanthemums like corn are monoecious. They are not typically self pollinators as pollen is shed before the flower is receptive. Like cannabis, they are photoperiod responsive. They have been cultivated since at least 1500BC.

If you want to see a Chrysanthemum breeder flip out, start talking about open pollinations and bees. All planned matings are 1:1. It has been this way for 1000s of years. This has lead to an extraordinary number of types.

Chrysanthemum blooms are divided into 13 different bloom forms by the US National Chrysanthemum Society, Inc., which is in keeping with the international classification system. The bloom forms are defined by the way in which the ray and disk florets are arranged.

I would say that these days there are far more cannabis breeders than there are chrysanthemum breeders. Intensive inbreeding by countless breeders is likely to lead to all sorts of extremes over time. Some will focus on resin, others on calyx size, bud structure, smell, taste, yield, height and lets not forget high and the list goes on. This will lead to greater diversity, not less as the unimaginative types fear. There is no limit to how far we can go with this.

Are we all on the same page now?
N.
how do they smoke up ?? hehehe
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  #413  
Old 01-06-2011, 08:30 AM
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how do they smoke up ?? hehehe
Not so good if you're an insect. It contains pyrethrins.
N.
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  #414  
Old 01-06-2011, 08:39 AM
Unclepeter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevil View Post
Chrysanthemums like corn are monoecious. They are not typically self pollinators as pollen is shed before the flower is receptive. Like cannabis, they are photoperiod responsive. They have been cultivated since at least 1500BC.

If you want to see a Chrysanthemum breeder flip out, start talking about open pollinations and bees. All planned matings are 1:1. It has been this way for 1000s of years. This has lead to an extraordinary number of types.

Chrysanthemum blooms are divided into 13 different bloom forms by the US National Chrysanthemum Society, Inc., which is in keeping with the international classification system. The bloom forms are defined by the way in which the ray and disk florets are arranged.

I would say that these days there are far more cannabis hacks than there are chrysanthemum breeders. Intensive inbreeding by countless hacks is likely to lead to all sorts of extremes over time. Some will focus on resin, others on calyx size, bud structure, smell, taste, yield, height and lets not forget high and the list goes on. This will lead to greater diversity, not less as the unimaginative types fear. There is no limit to how far we can go with this.

Are we all on the same page now?
N.
they have started to favour selfing though i'm told due to their inbred nature although they have SI problems! aren't they natural polyploids too?

I've read some things on the likes of pollen limitation to gain floral adaption in females.

I've read theres a survival and adaptive reason certain plant species/populations turn to selfing and in turn can get in a state of flux

JSTOR: An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie

should point out the above is not rel to Chrysanthemum etc

Last edited by Unclepeter; 01-06-2011 at 09:33 AM.
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  #415  
Old 01-06-2011, 08:58 AM
Unclepeter
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Based on data from 263 plant species for which estimates of FST, inbreeding (FIS) and outcrossing rate (tm) are available, we confirm that mating system is the main influencing factor of FST. Moreover, using an alternative measure of FST unaffected by the impact of inbreeding on effective population size, we show that the influence of tm on FST is due to its impact on gene flow (reduced pollen flow under selfing) and on genetic drift (higher drift under selfing due to inbreeding). Plant traits, in particular perenniality, influence FST mostly via their effect on the mating system but also via their association with the magnitude of selection against inbred individuals
theres plenty to me.
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  #416  
Old 01-06-2011, 10:02 AM
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Whether people like it or not, the standard practice for improving a breed, is to do close inbreeding to families that have outstanding and often extreme characteristics. Once these characteristics become fixed, usually after several generations, the best members of the line are outcrossed. Of all the outcrosses, often one will stand out (often the reason is because of a common ancestor further back in the pedigree). This is called a "nick".
Further matings are inbred to the nick and line bred to the best ancestor.
I offer this interactive pedigree of the Bullmastiff Torneto, who won numerous championships. WebGeneal 4.6p
You will see how he is line bred to Tailwyndes Thunderstorm. Click on the pedigree to see how he was bred. Tailwyndes Thunderstorm nicked with Boston Blackie. See how TT is inbred to the nick. It is of particular interest to see how close the Tailwynde studs inbreeding is. As often is the case some problems were created, but the successes will be indelibly imprinted on the breed. This breeding tek is found at the top level of most stud breeds of animals and plants. Familiarise yourself with the interactive pedigree provided. This is the future of cannabis breeding IMO.
N.
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  #417  
Old 01-06-2011, 10:40 AM
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Has anyone looked at staffordshire bull terrier breeding especially blue staffs which is a dilute colour from breeding black to black. Inbreeding this blue line created a monster chunky blue staff there is problems with some of the inbred lines alot of deformaties. To keep the blue in the line black has to be re introduced at some point or the colour will dilute over time.The best line you can get is the jolson blue boy line as shown in the link below. If you follow the line you can see how many champions that stud has created. Maybe some1 should put up a database of nevs line and keep track of them and count how many champions have descended from his line.

Here is x4 gens

SBT Pedigree

Here is x12 gens

http://www.stamtavler.com/dogarchive...=20514&gens=12

Last edited by GUANOIZDASHIZNIT; 01-06-2011 at 10:43 AM. Reason: links
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  #418  
Old 01-06-2011, 10:44 AM
british_hempire
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I'd be willing to have a crack at such a database of Nev's work.
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  #419  
Old 01-06-2011, 10:54 AM
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Go for it bh your the man for the job. People really need to know that nevs lines are everywhere sometimes hidden with names but the palate never lies .
And lets just see how many cups nevs lines have won worldwide.
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  #420  
Old 01-06-2011, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coop View Post
i don't know if any of you are programmers but a friend of mine studies plant sciences was taking a class about plant genomics and perl scripting

i don't know enough about it but could be an extremely useful tool for the scientific artist.
PerlGP - Perl Genetic Programming System
Cultured Perl: Genetic algorithms applied with Perl
co op that is a great tool for a database!!
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