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CannaFish 11-02-2019 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fxginbcn (Post 80781)
date trees in modern times are pollinated by hand... the process of male sacs, pollen, female yellow hairsjumping out lookin for flyin pollen, and then 8 months later you get a yummy seed to eat or plant (a date ;) )

my question for nev... there are sometimes strange mixings and pairings of animals that exist today and bred by humans, ligers, tigrons, mules (or the donkey or both, cant remember which).... in the same way could i pollinate a date tree with male cannabis pollen?

or vice versa? pollinate a female cannabis plant with date pollen?

would you get a yummy psychoactive date you could eat as a date or plant as an herb plant?

just high and drunk new years rambling...

suffice to say that although i think its the bong tokes talking, but i think 2011 is gonna be a good year

love an respect:D

Haha cannabis date palm, that's something like a inter-generic hybrid

CannaFish 11-02-2019 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paky One (Post 238774)
What did Nev post in the present thread!!!



And by the way, NH has never been proposed other than as an intraspecific F1 hybrid...

How could it be otherwise???

NH is considered something like a 3-way hybrid cross if Haze A and C are not related or considered a backcross hybrid if Haze A and C are siblings.

CannaFish 11-02-2019 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P3Ci (Post 238172)
I think, if you are linebreding two lines like this, then by crosing them together u get F1 again. From my logic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paky One (Post 238174)
Finally someone with some common sense.

Cheers.

I would say inbreeding not line breeding.

Calling it a F1 isn't really legit if the cross isn't expressing heterosis.

Paky One 11-03-2019 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CannaFish (Post 238791)
NH is considered something like a 3-way hybrid cross if Haze A and C are not related or considered a backcross hybrid if Haze A and C are siblings.

Crossing Nl5xHzA to HzC is linebreeding.

Linebreeding being a lighter form of inbreeding...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevil
The males A & C were the "goods"; without them all would have been lost.
They were at best half brothers, but certainly shared a common ancestor so the inbreeding co-efficient to the haze ancestor in Nevil’s Haze should be at most 37.5%.

Thus, crossing NL5Hz to Hz again, gives you F2s.

From there different IBL lines were established and crossed in the end in order to obtain a F1 hybrid strain.

Peace.

CannaFish 11-03-2019 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jack hairy (Post 238170)
according to the ICNCP,

cannabis strains would be considered cultivars, not subspecies.

and again, whether it is considered a species, subspecies, cultivar, etc... does not change the key to the definition of f1 hybridization.
two differing or unrelated genepools.

if you take a brazillian sativa, and an indian hybrid, and bring them together, you may have an f1.
if you make two pairings of those f1's and make two different lines for f2, f3,f4, etc...

then bring them back together.
do they have a different genepool?
or are they all swimming in the same brazillian and indian hybrid lake?

Quote:

Originally Posted by P3Ci (Post 238172)
I think, if you are linebreding two lines like this, then by crosing them together u get F1 again. From my logic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paky One (Post 238174)
Finally someone with some common sense.

Cheers.

this is what i am talking about would be inbreeding. not line breeding. Sure Nevilles haze is line bred not an F1.

CannaFish 11-03-2019 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paky One (Post 238808)
Thus, crossing NL5Hz to Hz again, gives you F2s.

From there different IBL lines were established and crossed in the end in order to obtain a F1 hybrid strain.


Peace.

What line are you talking about? Are you speculating that is how nevils haze is made?

#NightMare# 11-08-2019 07:45 PM

I think wat is being said is nevil put together the a5hz to the hzc male an in doing so created the first generation of wat became know as Thee Neville,'s haze. So this Neville's haze would be labeled as f1. But if I line breed two separate lines of Nevilles haze for four generations and select a female from one line an a male from the other, wud I be able to cal these two selections p1's and then cross them together to create a f1 Neville's again. The answer is no. Its wudnt be f1 Neville's haze. They should either be labeled then as a new f1 line with a different name or labeled as a ibl line ov Neville's haze with new p1 selections made from within the line. Or if I selected a new a5hz from seed an put it to the haze c male could I still call it f1 Neville's haze...it prbably shud be labeled as a recration of Neville's haze a new f1, that uses a newly selected p1 a5hz mother..or maybe it wud be beter to actually name it The f1 Nevil's haze which I think may be more appropriate

Paky One 11-10-2019 07:53 PM

EDIT
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevil
The price for backcrossing the 5HzA back to HzC was that the hybrid was not as consistent as the 5Hz. Maybe one in 20 females would be better than the 5Hz.

So apparently it is not because crossing the NL5HzA to HzC gives F2s that NH was only offered as an intraspecific F1 hybrid but rather that as a backcross F1 hybrid it was not sufficiently consistent...

CannaFish 11-14-2019 05:42 PM

what website is that Nevil quote from?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevil (Post 66284)
Backcrossing the NL5xHzC to the Haze C was one of the first things I tried. It didn't work out.

N.


Paky One 11-14-2019 07:57 PM

Interesting quote indeed...

So it seems that when backcrossing NL5HzC to the HzC male, not even 1 plant in 20 females was superior to the NL5Hz.

Which is not really surprising given that it contained two time the same HzC male, at least with NH it used two different males but was still not sufficiently consistent.

Anyways it is just wishful thinking to imply that Nevil could have proposed an inconsistent hybrid as his greatest achievement...

CannaFish 11-15-2019 05:28 PM

did your quote come from another site? i'm curious.

more Nevil...


Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevil (Post 57647)
The few haze that came up were all hybrids anyway and haze didn't get better when you inbred it. The NL5xHzC1 X Sk1xHzC1 Was not as good as the mother. The best I could do was combine the two different males over the NL5, and I put it out there.
Haze really needed to go to a good Buddah Thai lineage, but I could never find one good enough. Went to Thailand, but I couldn't find really good weed there anymore. I'm hoping that someone from Australia will have what we're looking for.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevil (Post 57754)
Aren't we all mate! The best I had was in '73. They'd come in bundles of twenty. Two tokes. Those were that days when growers in Thailand were passionate about growing the best. I believe that Thailand was the source of all the worlds best sativas.
N.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevil (Post 57277)
The only good haze that hit the market was from two males A and C.
Hz C male produced 5Hz1 which won a Cup or 2, this was a daughter of NL5 which won a cup. 5Hz1 when crossed with Sk1x HzC produced Silver Haze which won a Cup. Ben renamed it Jack Herrer. Somebody else renamed it Diesel. 5HzC X Sk1Hz C was not as good as 5Hz1. Mango Haze (5Hz122)is a full sister to 5Hz1 and these two were the best out of tens of thousands.
Haze A produced 5HzA2 (5A2) and was featured on the cover of the 1990 catalogue and is the mother of Nevil's Haze, the father being HzC.
If you are smoking any good Haze, I'll bet you London to a brick that it comes from Haze A or Hz C or both!


Paky One 11-15-2019 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CannaFish (Post 238923)
did your quote come from another site? i'm curious.

more Nevil...

Yep, from the shambhalacanna.com, a very secretive cannbis breeding forum.

Only those who have acquired the proper karma have access to it...

CannaFish 11-17-2019 01:15 AM

Oh snap! That must be where elmer gets his info.

Paky One 11-17-2019 09:30 AM

Here you are...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevil (Post 58241)
Now we have a format so that we can more easily understand what is being proposed, lets get back to the plot.

As you can see, from the pedigree of NH, the average age of the grandparents is about 40 years. It is for this reason that the NH is the most useful candidate for the Grail Sire. To my knowledge, it has been inbred to Haze only once, and this came with a price.
The NL5 x Haze, from both Haze males A and B, was a very consistent hybrid. The likelihood of a good plant coming out of a small batch of seeds was in your favour. My opinion for what it's worth is that this is the best Indica/Sativa F1 Hybrids that I have grown. I don't know where you can still get a genuine 5xHz f1 hybrid today. Fortunately we still have clones. of the two best F1 females.
The price for back crossing the 5HzA back to Haze C was that the hybrid was not as consistent as the 5Hz. Maybe one in 20 females would be better than the 5Hz. Further doubling up on HzA or C will reduce the return even further. I know this from experience.
If there are other good haze lines out there, be it from Sam or the Haze bros., what are the chances of it being an F1? If large numbers of the progeny smell like cat piss, it's very likely inbred and therefore not likely to be a good candidate. A 25% Haze hybrid from a different Haze line that has not been inbred to Haze would offer more hope.
Smoko time
N.


CannaFish 11-20-2019 11:12 PM

Thanks! Good Karma. So nevils haze takes some selection for a keeper.

Paky One 11-22-2019 11:28 AM

´You can’t see the forest for the haze’
 
Concerning SSH:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevil (Post 58306)
[...]
I can tell you that you wouldn’t want the batch that the NL5HzC x SkHzC came from. It was a "one off" in a batch full of skinny cat piss.
[...]

For the record, I have grown Sensi Seeds NL5Hz in 1992, the 1997 GHSco SSH, the 1998 GHSco NH and as such can vouch that all of them were very consistent hybrids from the start.

How to explain that?

NL5Hz as an interspecific hybrid was great.

While NH as a three way cross and SSH as a four way cross needed more work before being released in order to offer more consistency... hence their intraspecific version.

Paky One 11-23-2019 01:52 PM

Pure Haze
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam_Skunkman at Cannabis World
[...]
The original Haze was special in the 1970’s due to it’s F1 Hybrid vigor and the selfed generations have lost that, the further from the F1 you go the worse the quality. All Original Haze seeds made today by others are F10+ a long way from the F1’s. I have clones that are F2-F5. But they are not anywhere as good as the F1’s from the 1970’s.

If the Skunkman really has F2-F5 pure Haze cuttings one wonders why he didn’t use them during all those years.

And why did he choose to let the community fend with inbred F10+ Haze while he knew very well it was junk.

Isn’t cannabis an obligate outcrosser???

CannaFish 11-23-2019 03:31 PM

Nevil postulates that his haze selections A and C are hybrids and at best half siblings correct? So the labels of 3 way and 4 way are just imposed labels. It's all speculation without legit pedigrees.

So what was supposedly Sam's F1 hybrid?, colombian x colombian ?

Nevil always said he thought it was the Thai in Haze that made it special.

It's all confusion and obfuscation.

Whatever these haze hybrids are (NH, SSH, 5Hz) by the time they get to us the consumer they are poly hybrids.

I crossed CBG's Punto Rojo line with CBG's Mangobiche line. I guess I could call PuntoBiche an F1. But CBG created the punto rojo line by crossing 2 separate lines. So what is it really? PrimalHaze is what I hoped to make with it. I think it needs to be crossed with Thai to make it really zing. Maybe BigSur can make that cross, he holds the last F1's of PuntoBiche. I've only got F2s of it at this point.

Paky One 11-24-2019 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CannaFish (Post 238980)
by the time they get to us the consumer they are poly hybrids.

It is precisely because NH, MH and SSH are multi-polyhybrids that they need to be worked intraspecifically.

Nevil tried to explain it...

Unfortunately trolls did not give him the time nor the opportunity to express it fully.

CannaFish 11-25-2019 05:46 PM

Why do you think Nevil made SSH when 5Hz was the bomb? Better bud structure with the 25% Skunk?
Do you think Nevil was saying 1 in 20 Nevil's haze were better than the 5HzA mother or the average 5Hz plant?

CannaFish 11-25-2019 05:56 PM

Is this contradictory? the skinny cat piss "one off" is also the one that made SSH and Jack Herer etc...?


Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevil (Post 57277)
Hz C male produced 5Hz1 which won a Cup or 2, this was a daughter of NL5 which won a cup. 5Hz1 when crossed with Sk1x HzC produced Silver Haze which won a Cup. Ben renamed it Jack Herrer. Somebody else renamed it Diesel. 5HzC X Sk1Hz C was not as good as 5Hz1. Mango Haze (5Hz122)is a full sister to 5Hz1 and these two were the best out of tens of thousands.
Haze A produced 5HzA2 (5A2) and was featured on the cover of the 1990 catalogue and is the mother of Nevil's Haze, the father being HzC.
If you are smoking any good Haze, I'll bet you London to a brick that it comes from Haze A or Hz C or both!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevil (Post 57647)
The NL5xHzC1 X Sk1xHzC1 Was not as good as the mother. The best I could do was combine the two different males over the NL5, and I put it out there.


Originally Posted by Nevil View Post
[...]
I can tell you that you wouldn’t want the batch that the NL5HzC x SkHzC came from. It was a "one off" in a batch full of skinny cat piss.
[...]

Paky One 11-25-2019 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CannaFish (Post 238998)
Is this contradictory? the skinny cat piss "one off" is also the one that made SSH and Jack Herer etc...?

It isn’t a « skinny cat piss "one off"» but « a "one off" in a batch full of skinny cat piss».

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevil (Post 61673)
Either Sensi directors authorised the release of the plant produced from a mating I had made prior to ending up in jail in 1990, or a person in a position of trust made private arrangements. The mating was NL5xHzC X SK1xHzC.
Sensi won a cup with this cutting. It was called "Jack Herer". The J.H. line of seeds had this plant as a mother.
Green House also won with this plant at the Cups. It was called Super Silver Haze. As GH never had this cutting, who knows what they are calling SSH.
In the '90s, a variety known as Diesel was making a name for itself. When I smoked it I knew instantly that this was exactly the same plant and they had a cutting. The early Diesel line of seeds would also have used this plant as a mother.
All 3 lines were made with different fathers at least and this was 20 years ago. One would assume that successive generations would all go in their own unique directions, presumably giving rise to any distinct differences today. The names have remained the same and all 3 lines gained their credibility from the exceptional qualities of the original cutting NL5HzC x SK1HzC.
N.


CannaFish 11-29-2019 06:07 PM

Thanks for the response Paky. My Nevil line research journey will end here. My brain only has so many grooves to fit extraneous info. For now I'll have to revert to just growing the remaining MNS Nevil stock I have... Nevil's haze, Nevils Mango, Nevil's Skunk, Grail Widow, Ortega. I even have some Nevil HZ/Mullum X Mango Haze, but I don't think I'll ever get to those.
Peace and turkey!

PlantManBee 11-29-2019 09:35 PM

While I love the gear and respect everything Neville did for the community, I don't actually believe that he was magic and could identify plants with the type of accuracy that he claimed.

For one thing, I have grown quite a few cuts that have different traits under different conditions. Currently my "main" plant that I am vaping turned out VERY different on the last run. This was mostly due to a lighting snafu (green lights 24/7) about 3/4 of the way through flowering that pulled it towards vegetative, then the lights were extinguished. It veered back into flower, and ended up cut 5 months, 3 weeks of flowering. It's expression is much more sativa than usual. A typical run for the plant is 12 weeks.

#NightMare# 11-30-2019 07:24 PM

.
 
Dont think any one claimed he was magic..but he's saying he recognized his work in renamed lines..an all the information has been accurate as far as I know...also wen we read some of the information that he left with us, we need to remember some of its contex was pre 2000/2001 in holland.. After this nevil had gone back to Australia.

PlantManBee 11-30-2019 07:27 PM

There is no way to KNOW if he was accurate.

CannaFish 12-01-2019 02:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PlantManBee (Post 239051)
There is no way to KNOW if he was accurate.

No way for you to know he wasn't

Quote:

Originally Posted by shantibaba (Post 66876)
the one called Nevil should be listened to carefully.


PlantManBee 12-01-2019 04:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CannaFish (Post 239062)
No way for you to know he wasn't

hence, the continuing saga of Neville as a magical being. :)

He was a great breeder and obtainer of genetics. He changed the weed world completely. THAT is a high enough pedestal IMO.

CannaFish 12-01-2019 02:23 PM

I agree. You brought the magic part.

We're playing those mind games together
Pushing the barriers planting seeds
Playing the mind guerrilla
Chanting the Mantra peace on earth
We all been playing those mind games forever
Some kinda druid dudes lifting the veil
Doing the mind guerrilla
Some call it magic the search for the grail

PlantManBee 12-01-2019 03:17 PM

It's a leap of faith to believe unprovable claims which is why I refer to the claims as magic.

The claims were unprovable when he made them and the time to try has long since passed.

I think that maybe older people who fell in love with great weed before Neville was in business have a harder time with the deity aspects of how Neville seems to be viewed in the forums. Or I could just put it like I usually end up boiling down my thoughts on the subject: Neville was standing on the shoulders of giants. We are standing on his giant shoulders.

CannaFish 12-01-2019 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PlantManBee (Post 239077)
It's a leap of faith to believe unprovable claims which is why I refer to the claims as magic.

The claims were unprovable when he made them and the time to try has long since passed.

I think that maybe older people who fell in love with great weed before Neville was in business have a harder time with the deity aspects of how Neville seems to be viewed in the forums. Or I could just put it like I usually end up boiling down my thoughts on the subject: Neville was standing on the shoulders of giants. We are standing on his giant shoulders.

What claims?

CannaFish 12-01-2019 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PlantManBee (Post 239077)
It's a leap of faith to believe unprovable claims which is why I refer to the claims as magic.

The claims were unprovable when he made them and the time to try has long since passed.

I think that maybe older people who fell in love with great weed before Neville was in business have a harder time with the deity aspects of how Neville seems to be viewed in the forums. Or I could just put it like I usually end up boiling down my thoughts on the subject: Neville was standing on the shoulders of giants. We are standing on his giant shoulders.

definitely not viewed as a diety. or magical in any way. very human and flawed.

PlantManBee 12-01-2019 05:09 PM

Then enough with quoting his claims that he could taste a plant and retroactively ascertain the lineage AS EVIDENCE. Maybe, but no EVIDENCE that he could. And again maybe within a limited gene pool, but that isn't generally the claim.

CannaFish 12-01-2019 07:33 PM

No need to be a hater. show me these offensive magical claims that I keep quoting ??
You are the sole bearer of this magical trip. We were talking about pedigrees and breeding until you came in and poopoo'd on a dead man's thread.

PlantManBee 12-01-2019 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CannaFish (Post 239082)
No need to be a hater. show me these offensive magical claims that I keep quoting ??
You are the sole bearer of this magical trip. We were talking about pedigrees and breeding until you came in and poopoo'd on a dead man's thread.

Did I accuse you?

I don't try to memorize where I see the claims, as when I see them I stop giving the threads much credence.

I have seen numerous threads that quote Neville re: OG Kush being the result of some strains he worked with, downstream.

Not HATING on anyone. Just discounting some claims that get treated like facts.

Thanks for Sharon.

CannaFish 12-01-2019 09:48 PM

Hahaha be careful, say that 3 times and it will summon his return.

yeah you kind of accused me. Never seen the OG kush threads with Nevil. He said he thought dutch diesel was the same cut as ssh and Jack Herer, take it for what's it's worth... not EVIDENCE.

Just talking about haze pedigrees and breeding tech here. No gassed up OG kush histories. I think you are conflating icmag rantings with something Nevil actually said.

dioecious 12-01-2019 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PlantManBee (Post 239083)
Did I accuse you?

I don't try to memorize where I see the claims, as when I see them I stop giving the threads much credence.

I have seen numerous threads that quote Neville re: OG Kush being the result of some strains he worked with, downstream.

Not HATING on anyone. Just discounting some claims that get treated like facts.

Thanks for Sharon.


So OG kush and Triangle Kush are both sisters from the same bud. Origins-Tk-og on insta was growing a strain commercially available in Florida from the emerald triangle which was an afghan, but wasn’t to his liking. So he flew and bough every seed Nevil sold from Nevil, and was growing a Hindu Kush offering which we now know was kush4 x nl2. And both OG and TK were in one of many seeded buds.

PlantManBee 12-02-2019 12:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CannaFish (Post 239085)
Hahaha be careful, say that 3 times and it will summon his return.

yeah you kind of accused me. Never seen the OG kush threads with Nevil. He said he thought dutch diesel was the same cut as ssh and Jack Herer, take it for what's it's worth... not EVIDENCE.

Just talking about haze pedigrees and breeding tech here. No gassed up OG kush histories. I think you are conflating icmag rantings with something Nevil actually said.

I am definitely conflating Neville's reputation across the spectrum, and am stating that.

BTW, I never mentioned anyone by name in the "accusation".

He's like the Jim Bowie of Weediculture; the legends accrue after the fact.

PlantManBee 12-02-2019 04:15 AM

Hey I can see where it sure looks like I was referring to you canna when I was railing about Neville worship.

Sorry about that.

I should just let it rest, because I DO really value what he brought to the table, in innumerable ways. He restructured the whole ball game and he should be revered for that. What he did took balls of steel. Hell, here I sit still too chicken to even share pictures over 30 years since he put it ALL out there.

Hats off to the man and his accomplishments.

"One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die"
~HST

dioecious 01-02-2020 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CannaFish (Post 239085)
Hahaha be careful, say that 3 times and it will summon his return.

yeah you kind of accused me. Never seen the OG kush threads with Nevil. He said he thought dutch diesel was the same cut as ssh and Jack Herer, take it for what's it's worth... not EVIDENCE.

Just talking about haze pedigrees and breeding tech here. No gassed up OG kush histories. I think you are conflating icmag rantings with something Nevil actually said.

“ In Amsterdam, OTK was having a hard time finding weed that could meet his own high standards when they came across Neville’s Seed Catalog. Again, the strain names within meant little to them, so they bought the entire catalog and OTK smuggled upwards of $10,000 worth of cannabis seeds back home to the U.S.

Remember, he’s barely 18 at this time, working for a crew that was installing ‘the blueprint’ in homes up and down the Florida coast. Things were getting heavy.

So, in 1990, he and the crew start popping packs from their massive seed bank, hoping to find the next big thing.

THINGS POP

While testing various seeds in rockwool, OTK had sexed them out and separated some promising looking Hindu Kush seedlings that he had popped from the Neville score with hopes of hunting down a viable pheno to add to the operation.

He took a few of the Hindu testers and placed them just inside the doorway of a stacked flower room for safe keeping.

This room was packed to the gills with a funky, flavorful strain known at the time as Emerald Triangle – almost certainly a product of, and a call back to, the notoriously cannabis-rich culture that still thrives in Northern California.

Due to the way they jammed ‘the blueprint’ into small, residential spaces, there was really no way to access the center, edges, or back of the Emerald Triangle sea of green after about Week 3. You couldn’t even crawl in if you had to.

When it came time to harvest that room, the crew realized that one of the Hindu testers must have chucked some pollen and, to their dismay, there was scattered pollination throughout the room.

OTK took the blame for the mishap, even though he had been sure that no male plants were present. The entire episode made him focus on selling the seeded crop as quickly as possible to put it all behind him.

The buds were still dripping with shimmering trichomes and gushing with exotic aromas, and the seeding was not too prevalent. Overall, OTK estimates that they lost about five pounds of yield due to the error, but the remaining 30 pounds of weed sold out almost immediately in Florida’s black market.”

And the Hindu Kush according to Nevil here was kush4Xnl2


Chem and sour are different plants than tk/og btw which is pretty obvious despite the rumors online.

Origins bought the seeds directly from Nevil himself

https://www.beardbrospharms.com/news...g-kush-part-ii


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