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-   -   Breeding techniques (https://www.mrnice.nl/forum/6-breeders-support-information/5559-breeding-techniques.html)

JessE 01-06-2011 05:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donald Mallard (Post 82049)
Ohh so everyone can have an opinion ,, cant i jesse ??
i see you spew your opinions left right and centre ..
yep i think your a crack up ,,
what has your post input to the thread ??
are you the comic relief??
so i guess your post is like an intermission .. lol ...

Translation: I got the point JessE. Good! ;)

So lets get the story straight, you told hempy he knew nothing in relation to why he was against Fem Seeds. I posted and asked you if you knew about bottle necking and you admitted no. Then you go on to say there is no content in my post. Only later to assimilate my post and info as your own lol. And when called out on it, you get nasty...clearly defensive. Essentially an admission of guilt.:cool:

Im glad I taught you something Wally. Class will convene tomorrow at the same time, same place. Be there, or be square....;)

Donald Mallard 01-06-2011 05:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JessE (Post 82046)
Lmao! :D :D Did you forget about this jewel Clown? What was that you were saying about irony...



So your corn comparisons are fine, but anything else is not? Hahaha!! Let me ask you chump, do you want some more? Just let me know if you want it with my belt on or my belt off! I'll be waiting wannabe...;)

corn is a good comparison because it is an outcrosser like cannabis ,,
no anything other than that isnt the same ..
read a book jesse , your obviously literate ,,
start with Robert Allard , Principles of Plant breeding ..you too hempy , then come back and we can properly debate ..
No jesse you didnt enlighten me on anything t hat i havent already read . darn it huh ,,

Donald Mallard 01-06-2011 05:20 AM

actually id have to revise t hat last post and say if you read that book we could agree on many things and have a good chat about them instead of needign to debate ,...
looking foward to my next lesson mr teacher ...

sorry to others in the thread for a some out of line posting there by myself ,
ill take hempys advise and relax with some sativa now ,had enough caffeine for the day ,, .....

Ronin 01-06-2011 05:22 AM

So about breeding - my old lady has her tubes tied!! She had her kid at 19 to so every snapped back into place.

Nevil 01-06-2011 05:32 AM

Species not subject to inbreeding depression

Inbreeding depression is not a phenomenon that will inevitably occur. Given enough time and a sufficiently (but not too) small gene pool, deleterious alleles may be eliminated by natural selection by and by.

Under most circumstances, this is a rare occurrence though, as the gene pool cannot become too large (thereby increasing the odds of new deleterious alleles appearing through mutation) nor too small (resulting in outright inbreeding depression). Among island endemic populations, however, a high resistance to inbreeding depression is often seen. These derive from very small initial populations that must have been viable, and panmixia in the early stages of speciation was usually thorough. This will result in a very comprehensive elimination of deleterious recessive alleles at least. The second type of inbreeding depression caused by overdominant heterozygous alleles is impossible to eliminate by panmixia. However, local conditions may result in an altered selective advantage, so that the fitness of the heterozygous genotype is lowered.

Example taxa not subject to significant inbreeding depression despite extremely low effective population sizes:

Animals

* Chatham Islands Robin
* Laysan Duck (data equivocal; severe population fluctuations probably natural)
* Mauritius Kestrel
* Naked Mole Rat (mammal displaying eusocial reproductive structure and low genetic variation[1][2])
* Stegodyphus dumicola and some other social spiders (live in highly inbred colonies)
* Thai Ridgeback, a dog breed

Plants

* Dandelion (reproduces asexually through apomixis)[3]

* Nihoa Carnation
* Toromiro[verification needed]
Just in case anybody didn't bother to look further down the page.
N

Unclepeter 01-06-2011 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hempy (Post 82033)
The most extreme form of inbreeding is selfing So making fem seeds is fine but 1:1 breeding is not who we trying to fool here.

The reason why most lines in the dam have gone to shit is because those working them have no clue.
http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Fa_wjV-YdIw/0.jpg

why do you need to do 1:1 matings for fems? you don't!

Nevil 01-06-2011 07:51 AM

Quote:

why do you need to do 1:1 matings for fems? you don't!
But they do.
N.

Unclepeter 01-06-2011 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hempy (Post 82039)
Im GreenintheThumb and i really need to start a indica detox and start 2011 with a healthy diet of sativa so i can start making friends.

Genetic Variation in an Inbred Plant: Variation in Tissue Cultures of Soybean [Glycine max (L.) Merrill]

E. J. Roth, B. L. Frazier, N. R. Apuya and K. G. Lark
Department of Biology, University of Utah, Salt Lake City, Utah 84112

Although soybean [Glycine max (L.) Merrill] grows as an inbreeding, generally homozygous, plant, the germplasm of the species contains large amounts of genetic variation. Analysis of soybean DNA has indicated that variation of RFLP (restriction fragment length polymorphism) markers within the species usually entails only two alleles at any one locus and that mixtures of such dimorphic loci account for virtually all of the restriction fragment variation seen in soybean (G. max), and in its ancestors, G. soja and G. gracilis. We report here that tissue cultures prepared from root tissue of individual soybean plants develop RFLP allelic differences at various loci. However, these newly generated alleles are almost always the same as ones previously found and characterized in other varieties of cultivated soybean (cultivars). This repeated generation of particular alleles suggests that much of the genetic variation seen in soybean could be the consequence of specific, relatively frequently employed, recombinational events. Such a mechanism would allow inbred cultivars to generate genetic variation (in the form of alternative alleles) in a controlled manner, perhaps in response to stress.

Genetic Variation in an Inbred Plant: Variation in Tissue Cultures of Soybean [Glycine max (L.) Merrill] -- Roth et al. 121 (2): 359 -- Genetics

soybean is an natural inbreeding species not an outcrossing one....

for those that give a shit some reading!

Plant traits correlated with generation time directly affect inbreeding depression and mating system and indirectly genetic structure

Unclepeter 01-06-2011 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevil (Post 82075)
But they do.
N.

who are they?

Nevil 01-06-2011 08:05 AM

Chrysanthemums like corn are monoecious. They are not typically self pollinators as pollen is shed before the flower is receptive. Like cannabis, they are photoperiod responsive. They have been cultivated since at least 1500BC.

If you want to see a Chrysanthemum breeder flip out, start talking about open pollinations and bees. All planned matings are 1:1. It has been this way for 1000s of years. This has lead to an extraordinary number of types.

Chrysanthemum blooms are divided into 13 different bloom forms by the US National Chrysanthemum Society, Inc., which is in keeping with the international classification system. The bloom forms are defined by the way in which the ray and disk florets are arranged.

I would say that these days there are far more cannabis breeders than there are chrysanthemum breeders. Intensive inbreeding by countless breeders is likely to lead to all sorts of extremes over time. Some will focus on resin, others on calyx size, bud structure, smell, taste, yield, height and lets not forget high and the list goes on. This will lead to greater diversity, not less as the unimaginative types fear. There is no limit to how far we can go with this.

Are we all on the same page now?
N.

Nevil 01-06-2011 08:15 AM

Plant traits correlated with generation time directly affect inbreeding depression and mating system and indirectly genetic structure
Where's the meat? It's primarily about selfing.
N.

Donald Mallard 01-06-2011 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevil (Post 82080)
Chrysanthemums like corn are monoecious. They are not typically self pollinators as pollen is shed before the flower is receptive. Like cannabis, they are photoperiod responsive. They have been cultivated since at least 1500BC.

If you want to see a Chrysanthemum breeder flip out, start talking about open pollinations and bees. All planned matings are 1:1. It has been this way for 1000s of years. This has lead to an extraordinary number of types.

Chrysanthemum blooms are divided into 13 different bloom forms by the US National Chrysanthemum Society, Inc., which is in keeping with the international classification system. The bloom forms are defined by the way in which the ray and disk florets are arranged.

I would say that these days there are far more cannabis breeders than there are chrysanthemum breeders. Intensive inbreeding by countless breeders is likely to lead to all sorts of extremes over time. Some will focus on resin, others on calyx size, bud structure, smell, taste, yield, height and lets not forget high and the list goes on. This will lead to greater diversity, not less as the unimaginative types fear. There is no limit to how far we can go with this.

Are we all on the same page now?
N.

how do they smoke up ?? hehehe

Nevil 01-06-2011 08:30 AM

Quote:

how do they smoke up ?? hehehe
Not so good if you're an insect. It contains pyrethrins.
N.

Unclepeter 01-06-2011 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevil (Post 82080)
Chrysanthemums like corn are monoecious. They are not typically self pollinators as pollen is shed before the flower is receptive. Like cannabis, they are photoperiod responsive. They have been cultivated since at least 1500BC.

If you want to see a Chrysanthemum breeder flip out, start talking about open pollinations and bees. All planned matings are 1:1. It has been this way for 1000s of years. This has lead to an extraordinary number of types.

Chrysanthemum blooms are divided into 13 different bloom forms by the US National Chrysanthemum Society, Inc., which is in keeping with the international classification system. The bloom forms are defined by the way in which the ray and disk florets are arranged.

I would say that these days there are far more cannabis hacks than there are chrysanthemum breeders. Intensive inbreeding by countless hacks is likely to lead to all sorts of extremes over time. Some will focus on resin, others on calyx size, bud structure, smell, taste, yield, height and lets not forget high and the list goes on. This will lead to greater diversity, not less as the unimaginative types fear. There is no limit to how far we can go with this.

Are we all on the same page now?
N.

they have started to favour selfing though i'm told due to their inbred nature although they have SI problems! aren't they natural polyploids too?

I've read some things on the likes of pollen limitation to gain floral adaption in females.

I've read theres a survival and adaptive reason certain plant species/populations turn to selfing and in turn can get in a state of flux

JSTOR: An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie

should point out the above is not rel to Chrysanthemum etc

Unclepeter 01-06-2011 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevil (Post 82081)

Quote:

Based on data from 263 plant species for which estimates of FST, inbreeding (FIS) and outcrossing rate (tm) are available, we confirm that mating system is the main influencing factor of FST. Moreover, using an alternative measure of FST unaffected by the impact of inbreeding on effective population size, we show that the influence of tm on FST is due to its impact on gene flow (reduced pollen flow under selfing) and on genetic drift (higher drift under selfing due to inbreeding). Plant traits, in particular perenniality, influence FST mostly via their effect on the mating system but also via their association with the magnitude of selection against inbred individuals
theres plenty to me.

Nevil 01-06-2011 10:02 AM

Whether people like it or not, the standard practice for improving a breed, is to do close inbreeding to families that have outstanding and often extreme characteristics. Once these characteristics become fixed, usually after several generations, the best members of the line are outcrossed. Of all the outcrosses, often one will stand out (often the reason is because of a common ancestor further back in the pedigree). This is called a "nick".
Further matings are inbred to the nick and line bred to the best ancestor.
I offer this interactive pedigree of the Bullmastiff Torneto, who won numerous championships. WebGeneal 4.6p
You will see how he is line bred to Tailwyndes Thunderstorm. Click on the pedigree to see how he was bred. Tailwyndes Thunderstorm nicked with Boston Blackie. See how TT is inbred to the nick. It is of particular interest to see how close the Tailwynde studs inbreeding is. As often is the case some problems were created, but the successes will be indelibly imprinted on the breed. This breeding tek is found at the top level of most stud breeds of animals and plants. Familiarise yourself with the interactive pedigree provided. This is the future of cannabis breeding IMO.
N.

GUANOIZDASHIZNIT 01-06-2011 10:40 AM

Has anyone looked at staffordshire bull terrier breeding especially blue staffs which is a dilute colour from breeding black to black. Inbreeding this blue line created a monster chunky blue staff there is problems with some of the inbred lines alot of deformaties. To keep the blue in the line black has to be re introduced at some point or the colour will dilute over time.The best line you can get is the jolson blue boy line as shown in the link below. If you follow the line you can see how many champions that stud has created. Maybe some1 should put up a database of nevs line and keep track of them and count how many champions have descended from his line.

Here is x4 gens

SBT Pedigree

Here is x12 gens

http://www.stamtavler.com/dogarchive...=20514&gens=12

british_hempire 01-06-2011 10:44 AM

I'd be willing to have a crack at such a database of Nev's work.

GUANOIZDASHIZNIT 01-06-2011 10:54 AM

Go for it bh your the man for the job. People really need to know that nevs lines are everywhere sometimes hidden with names but the palate never lies :D.
And lets just see how many cups nevs lines have won worldwide.:D

GUANOIZDASHIZNIT 01-06-2011 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coop (Post 82111)
i don't know if any of you are programmers but a friend of mine studies plant sciences was taking a class about plant genomics and perl scripting

i don't know enough about it but could be an extremely useful tool for the scientific artist.
PerlGP - Perl Genetic Programming System
Cultured Perl: Genetic algorithms applied with Perl

co op that is a great tool for a database!!

Nevil 01-06-2011 11:26 AM

Quote:

Has anyone looked at staffordshire bull terrier breeding
Do you see how type is maintained by inbreeding to the best blood in the pedigree? Note that Jolsons Blueboy is is line bred 4x3x3 to Sparstaff Dominator through a son and two daughters. It is significant that SD is on the sireline and it picks up a daughter in the dam line ( the X from SD is unbroken). This is a pedigree designed to produce a superior male in SD's image. http://www.stamtavler.com/dogarchive...s.php?id=20514
N.

Nevil 01-06-2011 11:37 AM

Quote:

I'd be willing to have a crack at such a database of Nev's work.
This is where we need to go and I need help. But it's not only my work but all pedigrees that can be trusted need to be recorded. If I know how someone elses best cutting is bred, I can be clever in how I use it. Dubious pedigrees like the Imaculate Conception of Cheese wouldn't be of much use, while the Cheese itself might be if one could be sure of it's parents.
N.

british_hempire 01-06-2011 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevil (Post 82120)
This is where we need to go and I need help. But it's not only my work but all pedigrees that can be trusted need to be recorded. If I know how someone elses best cutting is bred, I can be clever in how I use it. Dubious pedigrees like the Imaculate Conception of Cheese wouldn't be of much use, while the Cheese itself might be if one could be sure of it's parents.
N.

The way to do it would be to have a database linked to a website, you would have various search fields and drop-down selection menus to search the database, for example, you could bring up a list of all strains with NL5HzC as a parent or all strains with Garlic Bud in their lineage.

First step would be to draw up a list of the fields you would want in a database, something like this:

Name
Female parent
Male parent
Breeder
Year Created
Otherwise Known As
Characteristics
Notes

On the Cheese thing, there was little confusion about it until about 2005, it just wasn't that widely known or discussed, then Big Buddha released his Cheese Seeds and wrote a magazine article about Cheese and the hype took off and the Cheese cuts proliferated, there are at least 5 of them now:

Exodus Cheese - the original, definitely skunk #1
Suicide Cheese - been known in Birmingham for over a decade, very similar smell, taste and high to the Exodus but beefier plant with bigger, more dense buds and slightly more potent, no idea what it is but I strongly suspect it's Super Skunk
Berry/Sweet Cheese - more indica than the Exodus, smells like wild berries, I am pretty sure this one has a lot of NL in it, maybe NL x Big Bud/Skunk or NL x Skunk
Frosty Cheese - I named it that, no idea what it is but it's a lot more resinous than the Exodus and yields more with a different, more dense bud structure, doobz is growing this cut, I've seen it around other friend's gardens too, I think this one is a newcomer as I've only seen it in the last year to 18 months.
Jah Hoover's Cheese - god knows what this one is, it could be the Suicide Cut, also claimed to be from the Exodus Collective and has stirred up some controversy

Reason I bring this Cheese thing up is to illustrate the difficulty with cuttings, how do we approach this issue? Do we just exclude any cuttings with uncertain lineages? That would mean we included cuts of known provenance such as A5, C5 and Sour Diesel but excluded things like OG Kush, Bubba Kush, Chemdawg, Indiana Bubblegum etc.

Before we start work on this there needs to be a discussion phase where we iron out how we want to do things and establish a set of rules we follow.

Maybe Nev should start a thread for this project so we can thrash out how we are going to approach it?

Nevil 01-06-2011 01:36 PM

The Bullmastiff program has most of the functions you would need. The American thoroughbred studbook had the same problem with unregistered mares, they were included without pedigree. With time the disappear toward the back of the pedigree. Plants of unknown parentage could come with footnotes/descriptions.

I was alluding to Dr Rockster's story of how his cheese was created.

Quote:

how we want to do things and establish a set of rules we follow.
Kennel clubs etc, already have a constitution. It would be worth seeing how applicable it is. Sad to say that where prestige is involved as it is in breeding anything, people do all sorts of sleazy and crazy things. They make rules about that stuff out of necessity.
N.

british_hempire 01-06-2011 02:20 PM

Ah, I didn't get the allusion to Immaculate Conception! lol

I don't know anything about pedigrees and how they regulate such things, I expect we could just copy how they do it in other areas of breeding.

Nev, can you suggest a good model I should study? The Bull Mastiff thing I will go take a look at now, this is going to take a little thinking and planning methinks.

zesk 01-06-2011 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevil (Post 82099)
Whether people like it or not, the standard practice for improving a breed, is to do close inbreeding to families that have outstanding and often extreme characteristics. Once these characteristics become fixed, usually after several generations, the best members of the line are outcrossed. Of all the outcrosses, often one will stand out (often the reason is because of a common ancestor further back in the pedigree). This is called a "nick".
Further matings are inbred to the nick and line bred to the best ancestor.

N.


cheers nev, what you said above just sorted out my understanding of this a fair bit, ive been reading the thread since the beginning an' its been a little over my head at times.

cheese is from pack of sensi seeds skunk #1 baught in 89, well thats what most think. when were you working there? is it from your selections ect.
ive thaught about this for a while an' you mentioning it made me think it's a good time to ask.

G- force is another one come to think about it.
quite a big one round my way a while ago
i think it's a G-13 x northern lights x skunk cross, from your hands?

BH might be able to shed some light on that cut.

Quote:

Originally Posted by coop (Post 82104)
i think i finally get it :p
there is some amazing stuff in this thread.

if you get a chance can you explain more about poly-hybrids.

Does a cross of 2 poly hybrids create another f1 cross, or are you just making more of a mess for yourself making a mutt?

say you have a pack of seeds with quite a variety of pheno's. It parent's,
grand parents and so on are of high quality, many chances of somthing nice coming up. what would be the next step once you found a trait you really liked and wanted to lock it down so it's past on to later generations?

bare in mind its taken me 30+ mins to just write this post
it might not be the most clear of Q's:D

thanks again for yours and other's contributions to this thread an well most of what ive smoked an will smoke in the future.

biteme 01-06-2011 03:53 PM

in the midwest usa chrysanthemums are commonly called just mums, maybe cause most dont want to learn the spelling? lol. corn and mums are grown everywhere outdoors but the flower i was most interested in growing required specialized indoor equipment to sustain life and my temptation was to find mj strains compatible to this same environ. the orchid is this flower though i am fairly certain breeding practises are dissimilar from mums? orchids thrive in a humid jungle and known to grow year round, this lengthy season being the most appealing factor for me. peace-biteme

british_hempire 01-06-2011 04:14 PM

Yup, a random female out of a 1988 pack of Sensi Seeds Skunk #1 is where Cheese came from. It wasn't selected, the guys didn't know a lot back then and they thought all the females would be the same so they only took a cutting of one of them, they grew it outside in the border of the back garden and took a cutting off that plant, a friend grew it indoors and that was when they realised how much it stank.

G-Force was given that name by Big Buddha or one of Big Buddha's crew, according to what I was told, it was brought to the Birmingham area in the late 80s or early 90s by a fella called Gordon and it was just known as 'G' until BB's lot got hold of it. It's supposed to be a huge yielder, incredibly smelly (worse than Cheese) and incredibly potent with a knockout stone. It's definitely heavily Afghan leaning so it could well be a G13 hybrid. I think it was quite closely held until BB got it, maybe it's more widespread now, I don't think anyone I know has the cut it's not one you see discussed online much. Big Buddha has done a seed version of it, maybe some people have cuts from those seeds and have passed em round?

With all the old UK cuts you can say one thing - they all came from Holland as seeds originally. There are some exceptions like the OT1 ES and ESB but the rest will all be from seeds people went to Amsterdam and bought, I remember being sent to Amsterdam on the ferry in 1997 to buy seeds, several people gave me a couple of hundred quid to buy seed for em, the reason for my trip being they wanted White Widow seeds because they had seen an been impressed by Widow buds and they were fetching a higher price than the NL they already had because the Widow had more bag appeal and back then people judged things like that on the amount of resin, that was why there were so many white strains, people associated resin with quality and potency.

british_hempire 01-06-2011 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by biteme (Post 82176)
in the midwest usa chrysanthemums are commonly called just mums, maybe cause most dont want to learn the spelling? lol. corn and mums are grown everywhere outdoors but the flower i was most interested in growing required specialized indoor equipment to sustain life and my temptation was to find mj strains compatible to this same environ. the orchid is this flower though i am fairly certain breeding practises are dissimilar from mums? orchids thrive in a humid jungle and known to grow year round, this lengthy season being the most appealing factor for me. peace-biteme

Orchids are far more diverse than that, they are found all over the world, not just hot, humid places. Where I live (56.5N) we have some very rare endangered orchids such as the Lady's Slipper Orchid and Bee Orchid, they are tiny plants with tiny flowers. There's another one that I particularly like that grows wild here that is about 6-9 inches tall and looks like a purple penis. Don't know the name of that one but it's a very pretty flower and a very deep reddish purple.

If you get into orchid growing and breeding I would be happy to find specimens of these wild English species and send em to ya, I'd be breaking the law to uproot them and take them home to be potted out as they are protected species, but I don't think I agree with that stance, I would prefer to spread the genes to preserve them.

Maybe I could colelct seeds from wild plants laet in season or tissue culture them?

There are farms here that used to grow hemp (one is called hemplands) and I spent many a summer afternoon in my youth searching for feral hemp but never found any, that's how I learnt about the rare orchids we have here.

zesk 01-06-2011 04:35 PM

all i know is its on par with cheese for the stench, very earthy, somtimes no green left to the buds, almost creame colour
one batch got me an a couple of mate's polightly kicked out of two pubs.

it was a friends older brother an people he new who had the cutting in their collection from what i gathered, but mushrooms got the better of him and he stopped growing, one of the other two i kno had the cut died not long ago:(

may well be from BB seeds but i think they had it a good while.

anyway cheers mate

Unclepeter 01-07-2011 08:44 AM

Quote:

If you get into orchid growing and breeding I would be happy to find specimens of these wild English species and send em to ya, I'd be breaking the law to uproot them and take them home to be potted out as they are protected species, but I don't think I agree with that stance, I would prefer to spread the genes to preserve them.
the best preservation would be to leave them or send pics of them to Professor Richard Bateman. odd one but orchid means testicle from latin orchis

british_hempire 01-07-2011 08:53 AM

Yeas, some orchids do indeed look like a purple testicle. lol

bushweed 01-07-2011 09:41 AM

...sounds like a Chinese confectionery :o

Nevil 01-07-2011 10:40 AM

On the subject of hybrids and stabilising lines, I'd like to say a few words. From the perspective of an experienced and critical smoker, the blending of types can only be done genetically. What I mean to say is that mixing pure Haze weed and pure NL together and smoking it, will not give you the same effect as the hybrid would. The hybrid is better! Inbreeding the hybrid and making F2s and so on will not give you a product that is the equal of the original F1. You may get a different version that is very good, but it won't have that perfect blend of the F1. Subtleties that come from the exact 50-50 blend of the F1 get lost under a layer of more dominant traits that are expressed more and more as you continue to inbreed brothers to sisters.
It's not that I'm against this tek to create an IBL. I know it to be effective, it's just that if you have a F1 hybrid that excels be cause it's a blend of polar opposites, you won't hold on to that by inbreeding to siblings. This method of creating IBLs is more suited to hybrids that are put together because of their similarity of type.
N.

fxginbcn 01-07-2011 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevil (Post 82333)
What I mean to say is that mixing pure Haze weed and pure NL together and smoking it, will not give you the same effect as the hybrid would. The hybrid is better!
N.

ive always wondered the answer to that

respect

Azra'eil 01-07-2011 11:34 AM

.............................

Nevil 01-07-2011 11:43 AM

Quote:

about your example haze x NL, is this because the F2 will show a greater diversity than an F2 from P1 hybrids and so a a lot more of phenotypes ?
The F2 will show more diversity but few will be the blend that the parents were. Nevertheless, despite or because of the lack of uniformity extreme examples can sill be found. From the F3 onward, things start to homogenise in a less favourable way. Usually, the smell and taste suffer the most.
N.

Azra'eil 01-07-2011 11:49 AM

............................

Nevil 01-07-2011 11:52 AM

Quote:

if you select F2 plants showing taste and aroma you like, it will be difficult to maintain these genes ? i suppose you cant true bred a line for aroma in this case...
We were discussing aromas based on the blending of opposites and then inbreeding siblings. There are other ways.
N.

Azra'eil 01-07-2011 11:57 AM

............................


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