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Old 03-14-2011, 03:35 AM
Donald Mallard
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Well im no expert ,
but id take a guess that studing plant breeding would be more benefitial to breeding plants ,
and studing animal breeding would be more benefitial to breeding animals ..
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Old 03-14-2011, 03:45 AM
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The message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 10 characters.

Last edited by hempy; 10-05-2011 at 06:09 AM.
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Old 03-14-2011, 04:43 PM
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Hello friends

Last edited by pepel29; 04-21-2011 at 04:53 PM.
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Old 03-14-2011, 05:06 PM
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Great tread

Last edited by pepel29; 04-21-2011 at 04:58 PM.
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Old 03-21-2011, 01:33 AM
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This thread was off to a good start and then was drug down by trolls. My hats off to nevil for an attempt at telling peeps what its about as well as his accomplishments.

As far a bottlenecking is concerned- I think Id rather sacrifice genetic diversity if all the plants are good and for all the peeps who want inferior plants addy up and Ill send you my throw aways.
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Old 03-21-2011, 03:17 AM
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Location: Oregon USA
Posts: 55

Spent a lot of time reading this thread.
Amazed at the rare chance available from a thread started by the great Nevil himself!
Started off a bit rough but got better.

Ignore my name, yes ive been a (really) low population seed maker. (hack whatever).
Havent made seeds in years, was learning more and about ready to start back up.
Ignore who I am, lets talk Mendelian Law and Selfing
Not focusing on epigentics or anything besides mendels work.

Lets look at one trait first with selfing.
What ever trait you want. I understand things dont always mix as expected.

The 1:1 ratio observed when back-crossing F1 to P1 and the 1:2:1 ratio observed in F1 to F1 crosses are the two basic Mendelian ratios for the inheritance of one character controlled by one pair of genes - Marijuana Botany
Wouldnt crossing an F1 female to an F1 male be similar with selfing when it comes to one trait?
Recombines the genes?
What good would it be to buy feminized seeds from a hybrid? Wouldnt they differ?

Lets say the traits are strong branched and weak branched.

We have 3 possibilities. SS SW or WW.
Say the elite mother is strong branched.
So we know that she shows a dominant trait of strong branches vs weak.
She may be homozygous for strong branching or she might have one dominant strong branching allele and one recessive weak branch allele.
Assuming we have a elite that is strong branched we can assume she is SS or S(?)
(in ours and most cases Sw, w being the recessive trait.)

When we self her we are crossing either SS x SS or Sw x Sw.

If the mom is homozygous for that trait then all the progeny will show SS.

If the mother is Sw (heterozygous for that trait) then we see the 1:2:1 ratio
SS or Sw or wS or ww
resulting in 3 of the 4 showing strong branching and the 4th being a homozygous recessive for that weak branching.

That is for one trait. When we look at two traits we see the 9:3:3:1 ratio.
What ever trait the parent is heterozygous for will show in a selfing.

This is just what i might have learned reading.
Good tool for finding parent plants?

Just trying to get into this discussion
Im not a fan of people selling feminized seeds unless they find a stable mom.
For me I just wanted to know more about selfing. (CS or STS)

I found this interesting.

If brothers and sisters are mated together every generation, it will only take 20 generations for all individuals in a family line to share 98+% of the same alleles—they essentially will be clones, and breeding results will be close to those resulting from self-fertilization.

Modern Theories of Evolution: Non-random Mating
Say something like start with an elite female and some seeds.
Select multiple males and pollinate the female.
Test seeds from each population for a desirable F1 female and backcross to her father.
(F1 x P1male) makes the 1:1 ratio.
Make an incross (f2?) from the Bx population (1:1 ratio into 1:2:1).
Find a homozygous female for two traits (make S1's from multiple females to find).

From here one could take the homozyous (F2?) female
and cross her with males from the Bx population (maybe even her father?),
selecting the population from the best progeny resulting from the cross.

Another would be to make an S1 from a homozygous female in the incross (f2?) population,
select a desirable female and pollinate her with males from the
backcross population or the incross (f2?) population.

Resulting progeny should be 50% homozygous for two traits and
50% homozygous for one trait and heterozyous for the second trait
all progeny should show dominance for the two desired traits.

This is a theory for me that I want to put to practice.
Discuss? Be kind

Last edited by HighBreed; 05-06-2011 at 07:06 AM.
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Old 04-02-2011, 06:22 PM
Junior Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 8
Default well..

I read to page 23 then skipped to the end... Too much off topic nonsense.

What HighBreed has spoken of above is what I believe should have been stop 1 on this thread :P

We all agree (I hope) that without understanding the P1 plants we are pissing into the wind. So........ How do we:
a) identify traits or phenotypes.
b) How do we then identify whether the trait is Homozygote or not.

Question b is the killer one for me.
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Old 04-19-2011, 05:44 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 2

Eeexcellent topic! I've been a lurker here at Mr.Nice for a couple years now, and this is the thread that finally convinced me to sign up for an account.

Here's an interesting and relevant article from on the dangers of line-breeding phenotypical curiousities:

White Tigers: Conserving a Lie - Advocacy For Animals

As a burgeoning breeder, hybrids and polyhybrids make the most sense to me - After all, my primary goal is unique and wonderful herb. Perhaps I'll start looking more in to line breeding once I do find that super uniquely wonderful pheno, but for now finding and keeping great mommas works well for me.

A quick question along that same line, though - If I were to find a great polyhybrid pheno, would crossing it to a different and unrelated polyhybrid male result in the uniformity and vigor you typically see with F1 hybrid (IBL x IBL) crosses? I only ask because I think that would be a great way to lock in the valuable traits you've found in that random polyhybrid - Just test it against various males until you find one that hybridizes with it in such a way that it maintains the desirable qualities of the mother. Then, produce a whooole bunch o' seeds. Not only would these seeds make a great reservoir of the traits you desire, they'd also make great stock to begin a line breeding project - Wouldn't they?

Good idea? Bad idea? I'd love to hear y'alls thoughts...
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Old 04-19-2011, 07:27 PM
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Posts: 1,546

In my experience the answer to your question is definitely yes. However not all hybrid crosses result in hybrid vigor. Many result in hybrid depression. The key is in finding a good hybrid cross. The same is true whether you are outcrossing 2 IBLs or 2 polyhybrids, or even a polyhybrid to an IBL.

Check out the link in my signature, it addresses your question in great detail.

Hi Friends,
Check it out:
The Bonsai Sultan Method: Typological Breeding for the Non Breeder, Beginner, or Pro with Little Space.
"The secret of improved plant breeding, apart from scientific knowledge, is love." --Luther Burbank
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Old 04-20-2011, 02:12 PM
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have you noticed any similarities between the plants that don't provide hybrid vigor?
This kind of relates to a question i have, if you cross 2 plants how do you know what generation the parents are from and then what would that make the offspring?
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