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  #181  
Old 08-25-2010, 05:57 PM
EnglishSpringerSpaniel
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Originally Posted by L33t View Post
A question regarding the Grail, is there a particular reason you want to use '97NH and not freshly made NH seed ? Shanti said the NH parents never changed since NH was first made. So is there any specific reason other than the fact that the '97 seed stock was made by you and also since really old needs to get popped before its too old and unusable.
At the very least, it does make for some good symmetry The Haze beans were popped in the mid 80s after a 15ish year wait inside a plastic baggie...

ESS
  #182  
Old 08-25-2010, 11:21 PM
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Question Haze Quality in Breeding Haze ?

Hello! Nevil... I keep thinking about this Grail you would like to create? My personal opinion is that your current masterpiece NH is all one would ever need for a Sativa. I would think the 25% indica in your NH is necessary to keep one from bouncing off the walls. You mentioned the Cat Piss smell and how it was not a good trate of proper haze? I thought that maybe your haze has a more thai background? more than south american pissy smell sativa. If this is the case then all you really have as a choice for a breeding plant, would be a Highland Thai variety and not a Low land Thai do to the lathargic sleep patterns it produces when smoking it. Maybe a Mix of the two? Tom Hill Sativa has South american pissy smells from what I hear. Are you mainly looking for Asian Thais for your ultimate Grail Sativa? Sweat Vanilla type citrus smell? By the way, Mango Widow is an Awesome Smoke, and I am flying at this very moment on it, Excellent ,Excellent. Great Job both of you. resinbud
  #183  
Old 08-26-2010, 12:01 AM
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"However I think it would piss me off if someone made poor selections and misrepresented my seeds. There was a thread about a user making f2's of unreleased varieties Shanti sent him, if he was able to get the f2's out before the release date and they turned out shottie it wouldn't be good for Shanti's/your good name."

If you buy seeds from some one else, how can that be a reflection on me? One generation can screw everything up, or change the future forever in a positive way.
When you buy stock from a breeder, you are buying the end result of that persons knowledge, experience and taste. That's what you pay the money for, not the name of a variety.
Any grower usually invests serious amounts of time and money in his project and the genetics he chooses are the corner stone of the project. You can do really well for yourself with top genetics and a low budget. the reverse isn't true.
N.
  #184  
Old 08-26-2010, 12:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L33t View Post
A question regarding the Grail, is there a particular reason you want to use '97NH and not freshly made NH seed ? Shanti said the NH parents never changed since NH was first made. So is there any specific reason other than the fact that the '97 seed stock was made by you and also since really old needs to get popped before its too old and unusable.
At the very least, it does make for some good symmetry The Haze beans were popped in the mid 80s after a 15ish year wait inside a plastic baggie...

ESS

I worry about things like genetic drift in cuttings. I have seen a lot of cuttings fade to pale shadows of their former selves over time. I don't have evidence that this effects the progeny, but if I can avoid the risk, I will. I know that '97 batch well, no problem there, I made them myself.
Sometimes, mistakes are forever.
N.
  #185  
Old 08-26-2010, 12:19 AM
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Thank you very much for the reply Nevil , I really appreciate your honesty
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  #186  
Old 08-26-2010, 12:29 AM
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Originally Posted by resinbud View Post
Hello! Nevil... I keep thinking about this Grail you would like to create? My personal opinion is that your current masterpiece NH is all one would ever need for a Sativa. I would think the 25% indica in your NH is necessary to keep one from bouncing off the walls. You mentioned the Cat Piss smell and how it was not a good trate of proper haze? I thought that maybe your haze has a more thai background? more than south american pissy smell sativa. If this is the case then all you really have as a choice for a breeding plant, would be a Highland Thai variety and not a Low land Thai do to the lathargic sleep patterns it produces when smoking it. Maybe a Mix of the two? Tom Hill Sativa has South american pissy smells from what I hear. Are you mainly looking for Asian Thais for your ultimate Grail Sativa? Sweat Vanilla type citrus smell? By the way, Mango Widow is an Awesome Smoke, and I am flying at this very moment on it, Excellent ,Excellent. Great Job both of you. resinbud
from what i understand the catpiss trait comes from the haze C male which is thai leaning and the trait is reportedly thought to be found in thai varieties,the incense trait is a S.american or you might say lumbo trait

tom hill haze ive never heard reported to be S.A. nor pissy ,its been reported by him and others as a thai expression

im very curious as to nev's opinion on both of these traits in pure haze

Quote:
Are you mainly looking for Asian Thais for your ultimate Grail Sativa? Sweat Vanilla type citrus smell?
im very curious as too which thai variety nev has considered myself

but the aromas and taste he mentioned if i recall were completely oppsite ,if i recall he said liver n dark leather ,my style


Quote:
You mentioned the Cat Piss smell and how it was not a good trate of proper haze?
i was very curious about this myself good question

as the incense trait and catpiss trait is a common trait in both mns haze hybrids and SAMS haze hybrids


neville

im curious as to your thoughts on reeferman's haze bro haze
description

ive just noticed reef was kicked off the farm along wit him went his post and my thread ,the post were interesting but nothing from the lost ark,he went on too say the ohaze is unpractical to grow wit offering such as your SSH although i argued my point

but what i found interesting was
Quote:
Reeferman Seeds Original Haze is is the original haze from the Haze Brothers, from which all haze hybrids derive. It has a strong cat piss smell and is a super long flowering sativa,he noted catpiss/sandlewood and he sourced it i believe from s.holland
the 2 traits ive always associated with the best haze selections ive com across catpiss and incense



1luvbigherb

Last edited by bigherb; 08-26-2010 at 12:31 AM.
  #187  
Old 08-26-2010, 01:33 AM
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Default CAT PISS

The cat piss smell associated with Haze is the result of inbreeding to the Haze. Inbreeding to siblings or half siblings, is less damaging than inbreeding to the same Haze plant.
NL5 was somewhat neutral in smell and when crossed with the Haze, it expressed the various genotypes behind the Haze very well. I have grown large numbers of NL5HzA and NL5HzC plants from seed. Considering that the HzA male was dead, I could only use it's daughters to put back to HzC.

This single inbreeding to the 1969 haze males exponentially increased the amount of cat piss types in the progeny, but still allowed a useful percentage of truly superior plants to shine through.
The average age of the NH grand parents is about 40. I don't believe that this can be said about anybody else's lines. They are more inbred, hence the cat piss.
I have a dream that a real Haze brother will contact me and tell me that he still has well preserved seeds from the 60's. Failing that, the '97 NH seeds offer the best hope for future hybrids.
N.
  #188  
Old 08-26-2010, 01:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevil View Post
I have a dream that a real Haze brother will contact me and tell me that he still has well preserved seeds from the 60's. Failing that, the '97 NH seeds offer the best hope for future hybrids.
N.
There's a guy on ICMAG named Classic Seeds who sells seeds thru Seedbay as "CLS seeds", who claims to have collected all the early Californian imports from Mexico, Colombia, Thailand & Afghanistan, as well as all the important hybrids from that era. http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=154734

Last edited by bushweed; 08-26-2010 at 01:53 AM.
  #189  
Old 08-26-2010, 02:07 AM
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interesting bushweed but I did not manage to get to see any photos from plants from these old lines that CLS sells.No pics no reports nothing ? do you have any links maybe from any grows from buyers that purchased his gear ?
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  #190  
Old 08-26-2010, 02:11 AM
bigherb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevil View Post
The cat piss smell associated with Haze is the result of inbreeding to the Haze. Inbreeding to siblings or half siblings, is less damaging than inbreeding to the same Haze plant.
NL5 was somewhat neutral in smell and when crossed with the Haze, it expressed the various genotypes behind the Haze very well. I have grown large numbers of NL5HzA and NL5HzC plants from seed. Considering that the HzA male was dead, I could only use it's daughters to put back to HzC.

This single inbreeding to the 1969 haze males exponentially increased the amount of cat piss types in the progeny, but still allowed a useful percentage of truly superior plants to shine through.
The average age of the NH grand parents is about 40. I don't believe that this can be said about anybody else's lines. They are more inbred, hence the cat piss.
I have a dream that a real Haze brother will contact me and tell me that he still has well preserved seeds from the 60's. Failing that, the '97 NH seeds offer the best hope for future hybrids.
N.


i truly appreciate this response

from my research one of the four varieites of the original haze known to have the catpiss trait ,this was also the variety that was known to carry the incense trait


im curious as too your thoughts on the incense/frankincense trait aswell ,id love for you to stop by my (Frankincense trait in haze )thread


Quote:
NL5 was somewhat neutral in smell and when crossed with the Haze, it expressed the various genotypes behind the Haze very well
this why id do anything for a pack of the old seed bank NL5HAZE and why my next purchase will be the current offering

IME ive noticed the catpiss in one of my sk/hz phenos

im glad the HAZEA daughters are alive and well ,im excited too see wat your next masterpiece may be


Quote:
This single inbreeding to the 1969 haze males exponentially increased the amount of cat piss types in the progeny, but still allowed a useful percentage of truly superior plants to shine through
once again id like you to note it is reported that the ohaze did carry this trait in one of the four colors

i understand inbreeding will hav negative effects,and as you hav said the catpiss seems to be somthin your not lookin for in your haze selections

im curious to know what taste/aromas do you consider superior in your experience with pure haze ?

I
Quote:
have a dream that a real Haze brother will contact me and tell me that he still has well preserved seeds from the 60's. Failing that, the '97 NH seeds offer the best hope for future hybrids
well i think its a possibility considering hooteroll is a member her and has chose the mns home to post

best wishes in which ever path is destined


1luvbigherb
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