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  #51  
Old 12-06-2017, 10:30 PM
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Elmer,
Pinned the vein or believe first prick brings addiction. Doctors pricked you before? Lmfao.. you'll only hear of failures.. and yes there's lots, you think to much of the human race to think otherwise.. what story you want to hear of the long terms lol.. have a look at our eldest on record, top five, smokers, should we smoke to give us the best chance of living the longest on record? I'm just asking the question..

Last edited by Growstone; 12-06-2017 at 10:35 PM.
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  #52  
Old 12-06-2017, 10:47 PM
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Bluntmassa,my thinking fairly much to the point.. I'm at work,otherwise I'd reply but exactly..

Another I've seen is about god creating cannabis but not fermented fruit lmfao
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  #53  
Old 12-07-2017, 02:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musashi View Post
Certainly an emotional subject lacking data, based on nothing but rumor, innuendo and outdated stories, as no one as of yet, has actually provided hard data demonstrating they were actually there.
A taste of sanity.

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  #54  
Old 12-07-2017, 06:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musashi View Post
Must be that Mercury in retrograde thing...

Shaka
M
I am not a big believer in astrology or any organized religion, but I have seen some of the weirdest fuck-ass things during Mercury retrogrades. The retrograde of Mercury is actually a phenomena explained by Einstein's theory of general relativity, and something that greatly confused scientists until Albert came along.
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  #55  
Old 12-07-2017, 06:42 AM
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As for Sammy Skunk, Dr. Beanstein or Dave Watson (if that is his real name) and GMO? If you believe that CRISPR is GMO, as I and many others do (flipping, splicing and editing genes), then I believe he is guilty as charged. If you do not believer that CRISPR is GMO, then I guess you can acquit him. I believe that CRISPR should be labeled as GMO. But 'they' are trying to get around that in a global debate.

I think we have to draw the GMO line someplace. CRISPR is genetic engineering. Mr Watson tries, as others do, to label CRISPR as being "like hybridization". Sorry, but I do not see any similarity, or that standard breeding will ever get you to where CRISPR does. Its like them saying that TEL was great for gasoline. And that global warming is a myth. "Don't worry, modern industry will take care of you." All in the name of profit, and some rich fat cats being retired someplace. Like Mr Watson is now after pawning off his several companies.
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  #56  
Old 12-07-2017, 07:58 AM
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Yeah they are currently arguing/discussing that very thing over at IC.

Like Big Sur said, Sam is under the impression that CRISPR is just a "faster, more scientific" method of hybridization. Or at least that's what he communicates. Anyone who sees that differnetly, is just "scared of science" basically.

That is obviously up for debate but it sounds like a load of bullshit to me and a way to relabel something that nobody wants in order to get them stuck with it before they realize it's the same thing they didn't want just under a different label.


To me, the core of the issue would be what you can manipulate with CRISPR?
And from the little research I did, it sounds dangerously like what you can do with other methods to arrive at GMO.

What nobody wants is what Monsanto did with corn and tomatoes and the like.

And what Sam and others are saying is that CRISPR is not that.

But I would be very sceptical of that.

I find it very dubious that big companies would pour research money into ways to "faster" or "more reliably" or "more predictably" hybridize cannabis plants.

I find it very easy to believe that big companies are pouring research money into ways to trademark/patent cannabis strains and subsequently finding ways to eliminate all but their trademarked/patented strains from the market.

Why is one thing so hard to believe and the other one so easy?

Because if you look into recent history of the real world you live in, it has been demonstrated.

When Monsanto etc. came out with their GMO corn and tomatoes and avocados and stuff, the voices screaming about the risks and issues with that were silenced and the whole debate and news was about how much better, more uniform, pest resistant etc. etc. these plants had gotten and if they wern't going too far, creating "too good" of tomatoes, corn etc.

It's trying to blind people.

I am 100% convinced Sam and the rest of them are selling out to companies like Monsanto (I guess I should say Bayer now ...) and helping them to do to cannabis what they did to our corn and tomatoes.

These are people that have demonstrated time and again that if they aren't morally depraved, they at least don't take it too seriously. And money talks for them.

Monsanto et al need people like Sam now for the first and probably last time ever and their knowledge and experience will never be more valuable in cash dollar than they are now.

I can imagine hundreds of thousands being thrown around for consultation roles and selling out their knowledge and I can't see people like Sam saying no to that.

That they don't want to ruin their "reputation" by admitting this but instead deny and spin it in a way that what they are doing is nothing like that etc. etc. is nothing surprising to me either.


I expect that in the near future we will have trademarked, patented GMO cannabis and all legal channels will have to run these strains, like you have in the Netherlands with the coffeshops and Bedrocan etc.

And same as in the Netherlands, this misguided attempt to over-regulate will lead to a flourishing and growing grey market for conoisseur weed or particular strains etc.

You see how heirloom tomatoes and corn and the like are making a huge comeback now as well. After what, 20 years of dominance by GMO fruits and vegetables...

Sure they aren't sold in supermarkets yet, or rarely are. But they are more and more in demand.

I remember 10 years ago it was absolutely impossible for me to get heirloom tomatoe and corn seeds in Europe to grow in my garden.
Back then I had to import certain tomatoe seeds from Siberia for christ's sake. It was a huge deal which only came to fruition due to contacts. It was that hard to find and that controlled.

But I apparently wasn't the only one looking into these types of seeds.

Because now I can find that stuff on ebay/amazon...


I think the big industry will go through with it and create GMO cannabis. And it will work and thrive but depending on how we as a community react, it will be a short time fad or maybe a mainstay like feminized seeds.

Either way this won't be the end of cannabis as we know it. At worst we have to go underground again like we did in the past until people are sick and tired of GMO cannabis and then look what these underground pollen chuckers preserved for the world?
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  #57  
Old 12-07-2017, 01:50 PM
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I haven't seen these threads you're talking about but what Broseidon and Big Sur are saying all makes sense.
Human nature and historical Big AG strategies/tactics all fit together perfectly in the puzzle.

Has Sam admitted to using CRISPR in those threads or is he just discussing it? EVERYBODY has a price at which they are willing to sell out their values.
Big AG/Pharma certainly have enough money to corrupt every commercial breeder on the planet without making a dent in their quarterly financials.

Seems to me the definition of "Genetically Modified" is obvious.
Modifications are mods whether working with the genetics already in the DNA or bringing in external DNA. It's about the process.
Anyone making a case against that logic is obviously bent.

Interesting progression of events you are forecasting in your post Broseidon.
If it play's out like that, I hope we do a better job of preserving the genetics we have RIGHT NOW than we did in the 70's and 80's.
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  #58  
Old 12-08-2017, 08:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cptn View Post
I haven't seen these threads you're talking about but what Broseidon and Big Sur are saying all makes sense.
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?threadid=347821

The start of the thread is idiotic. The OP wants to talk about his religious enlightenment and proposes that we are all creating abominations by growing hybrids. We should all grow landraces and keep the kinds clean and pure or some shit.
It's really medieval.

If you go to page 7 or 9 or sth and following, the discussion turns to "well what is actually going too far in modifying plants etc.?"
And the GMO/CRISPR discussion starts.
/Edit I just went over the thread again and the meat and potatoes about GMO/CRISPR starts at page 15, post 148 where Sam posts (and I quote):
"In general I oppose GMO crops, they may or not be safe but I hate they way it is used to create varieties that are resistant to Roundup and the like.
CRISPR is different in that no foreign DNA is inserted, it is a tool to edit the genes, and does really the same as breeding but with much more rapid results, as the same alterations will occur in nature or in classical breeding at a much slower rate. CRISPR tech can be considered organic by some groups and not by others. The USDA and various Organic Associations around the world seem to differ on opinions. It can be used to reduce dependence on pesticides, and fungicides, that is good.
CRISPR tech does not require the same disclosure as GMO crops with inserted foreign genes in them, CRISPR can be done with Cannabis and no one could tell the difference between a plant breed using classical breeding and a CRISPR modified plant, so it will happen, but to use the tech it is expensive and also proprietary tech but the savings in time, labor and money using it compared to classical breeding will ensure it is widely use in the near future.
-SamS "
\Edit

I didn't read it all but check it out for yourselves. From what I skimmed, it seems to me that Sam is arguing CRISPR is like "GMO-light" or something, basically nothing "worse" than crossing strains and creating hybrids.
That was my impression.

I spoke with Sam personally once or twice and the man is far and beyond what simple amateurs like you and me can hope to achieve in terms of growing and understanding cannabis. He just has that much experience and knowledge and access to things you and I can only dream off.
Kind of like Shanti and Nevil in many ways if you want to go that far.

But I also quickly got the impression from both our few and short conversations and his general posts and expressions on forums and elsewhere, that Sam has, if any, a very limited moral compass.

Pair that all with Sam's shady past and the alleged (or all but proven) cooperation with the DEA....
It all fits.

And it also is very logical that he would again sell out to protect his own interests and is now working on GMO cannabis with Big AG and pharma while trying to/convincing "his followers" or the community at large that he would never be involved in something like that and that what he is working on is CRISPR and we all just don't understand what it is because of course it isn't anything like GMO cannabis and we are all just afraid of science and progress etc. etc.


That is my impression/summary of the situation.


And keep in mind that lying, distorting the truth etc. etc. is very common, even second nature, to many in the cannabis business. They had to rely on such strategies for so long that it just became second nature to them.
And it is widespread.

I feel like Shanti and MRN crew are a unicorn in that sense but I might be wrong about them, too.

Everywhere else, if you look, you will likely find lies and the like.
Another good example I like to give is Serious Seeds and the AK47.
Go to their vendor's forum over at IC and ask them about the AK47. They will STILL to this day lie to your face and claim it is the same as it always was, original parents blabla.
A blatant lie, only absolute newbies with no contacts and no knowledge will believe it. But that is enough reason for them to keep the lie up for more than a decade now.

People in this industry lie and cheat and throw others under the bus for their personal gain, constantly.

Broseidon out

Last edited by Broseidon; 12-08-2017 at 10:49 AM.
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  #59  
Old 12-09-2017, 12:45 PM
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Media is catching up, the new "weapon"...

Crispr - Revolution im Genlabor | Reportage & Dokumentation Video | ARD Mediathek

Enjoy
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  #60  
Old 12-09-2017, 10:15 PM
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That's funny bro, I've found with my conversations he's known no more but speaks with a confidence that sucks you in,especially if you don't know.. the lies to protect is all fair, the ones he uses for self promo makes him compulsive and full of shit.. don't let somebodies confidence press on your own..
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