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-   -   deleaf vid (https://www.mrnice.nl/forum/14-indoor/9351-deleaf-vid.html)

tazmcd 03-01-2012 12:42 AM

deleaf vid
 
howdy , jorge c has a small vid on de leaf . leave leaves alone its called ,it explains the reasons not to de leaf in a few minutes ,l would post it but im a idoit with comps could someone post it up if they find it so noobs can see it peace t you tube

b0b_b1tch1n 03-01-2012 12:58 AM


Sensimilla13 03-01-2012 01:06 AM

How do like them apples?
Sensi

Critical MASSiah 03-01-2012 01:07 AM

After watching that video (1st time i've ever seen J. Cervantes, ever) I am CONVINCED that Jorge Cervantes and Ted Nugent are directly related.

Just sayin' :D

"Keep the leaves ON!"

All the best,

CM

zigzag 03-01-2012 01:28 AM

I'm sorry but Jorge is a peace loving hippy and Ted Nugent is an anti drug right wing nut job. It is an insult to Jorge to compare him to that nutsack.

jwf 03-01-2012 02:02 AM

Cambridge Journals Online - Abstract

An article which supports defoliation in certain plants, however it has not been critically analyzed, or has it? (you bet I have). A small bone for GM1 to choke upon. Back to the ether for me.

Sensimilla13 03-01-2012 03:36 AM

I only had to read the first few lines to know that it is not very applicable because just as barley above, all these plants are monocots. Cannabis is a dicot. Before anyone says monocot and dicot plant classification isn't used any more in a rigorous way...I can assure you there are huge differences in physiology and response to environmental conditions between grasses (monocots like barley and the ones intje paper above) and dicot plants like cannabis.

Plus, all you have to do is pull some fan leaves from a branch and watch the bud hit the pause button.

Sensi

jwf 03-01-2012 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sensimilla13 (Post 153980)
I only had to read the first few lines to know that it is not very applicable because just as barley above, all these plants are monocots. Cannabis is a dicot. Before anyone says monocot and dicot plant classification isn't used any more in a rigorous way...I can assure you there are huge differences in physiology and response to environmental conditions between grasses (monocots like barley and the ones intje paper above) and dicot plants like cannabis.

Plus, all you have to do is pull some fan leaves from a branch and watch the bud hit the pause button.

Sensi

Couldnt agree more Sensilillia13.

b0b_b1tch1n 03-01-2012 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nor1 (Post 154047)
sorry jorge...

side by side test or your "read this anywhere" comment

is just hear say

also big difference indoor vs out as well as

strain dependent<--

side by side tests have been done to DEATH !

simply put , pulling off leaves is idiotic

why wont people just listen ? espesially when scientific PROOF has been given

peace :cool:

ganja man1 03-01-2012 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nor1 (Post 154047)
sorry jorge...

side by side test or your "read this anywhere" comment

is just hear say

also big difference indoor vs out as well as

strain dependent<--

This is true (well almost). I would NEVER de-leaf an outdoor crop if I grew outdoors.

Also, I've NEVER seen an indoor side by side done. If someone can point me in the direction of a side by side (pics, vids etc) then I would be most grateful.

Also, when de-leafing indoors, you MUST start from early veg. This is so that you can prepare the plant during the veg stage. Starting deleafing when the plant has already gone into flower is a big NO NO. Indoor de-leafing done properly is good for any cannabis strain, indica or sativa IMO (I'm talking cannabis which is the only plant I grow. Other plants (such as cactus etc) may vary lol.

This plant has been deleafed loads before she went into flower...
http://www.mrnice.nl/forum/members/g...-10-flower.jpg
When she went into flower she still had loads of leaves. They do grow back as you can see in my pic. And she'll be deleafed again later on because her buds are starting to develop. In an indoor garden, you wanna get the light hitting them budsites. Outdoor is a totally different ball game :)

b0b_b1tch1n 03-01-2012 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ganja man1 (Post 154065)
This is true (well almost). I would NEVER de-leaf an outdoor crop if I grew outdoors.

Also, I've NEVER seen an indoor side by side done. If someone can point me in the direction of a side by side (pics, vids etc) then I would be most grateful.

Also, when de-leafing indoors, you MUST start from early veg. This is so that you can prepare the plant during the veg stage. Starting deleafing when the plant has already gone into flower is a big NO NO.

This plant has been deleafed loads before she went into flower...
http://www.mrnice.nl/forum/members/g...-10-flower.jpg
When she went into flower she still had loads of leaves. They do grow back as you can see in my pic. And she'll be deleafed again later on because her buds are starting to develop. In an indoor garden, you wanna get the light hitting them budsites. Outdoor is a totally different ball game :)

BUDS DO NOT FEED BUDS , LEAVES FEED BUDS , WHEN WILL YOU GET THAT THROUGH YOUR THICK SKULL :confused:

stop claiming deleafing is a good thing , it is NOT ! you want the light hitting the leaves , they photosynthisis,,,,,,

Photosynthesis

Photosynthesis is the process of converting light energy to chemical energy and storing it in the bonds of sugar. This process occurs in plants and some algae (Kingdom Protista). Plants need only light energy, CO2, and H2O to make sugar. The process of photosynthesis takes place in the chloroplasts, specifically using chlorophyll, the green pigment involved in photosynthesis.

Photosynthesis takes place primarily in plant leaves, and little to none occurs in stems, etc. The parts of a typical leaf include the upper and lower epidermis, the mesophyll, the vascular bundle(s) (veins), and the stomates. The upper and lower epidermal cells do not have chloroplasts, thus photosynthesis does not occur there. They serve primarily as protection for the rest of the leaf. The stomates are holes which occur primarily in the lower epidermis and are for air exchange: they let CO2 in and O2 out. The vascular bundles or veins in a leaf are part of the plant's transportation system, moving water and nutrients around the plant as needed. The mesophyll cells have chloroplasts and this is where photosynthesis occurs.

As you hopefully recall, the parts of a chloroplast include the outer and inner membranes, intermembrane space, stroma, and thylakoids stacked in grana. The chlorophyll is built into the membranes of the thylakoids.

Chlorophyll looks green because it absorbs red and blue light, making these colors unavailable to be seen by our eyes. It is the green light which is NOT absorbed that finally reaches our eyes, making chlorophyll appear green. However, it is the energy from the red and blue light that are absorbed that is, thereby, able to be used to do photosynthesis. The green light we can see is not/cannot be absorbed by the plant, and thus cannot be used to do photosynthesis.

The overall chemical reaction involved in photosynthesis is: 6CO2 + 6H2O (+ light energy) C6H12O6 + 6O2. This is the source of the O2 we breathe, and thus, a significant factor in the concerns about deforestation.

There are two parts to photosynthesis:

The light reaction happens in the thylakoid membrane and converts light energy to chemical energy. This chemical reaction must, therefore, take place in the light. Chlorophyll and several other pigments such as beta-carotene are organized in clusters in the thylakoid membrane and are involved in the light reaction. Each of these differently-colored pigments can absorb a slightly different color of light and pass its energy to the central chlorphyll molecule to do photosynthesis. The central part of the chemical structure of a chlorophyll molecule is a porphyrin ring, which consists of several fused rings of carbon and nitrogen with a magnesium ion in the center.

The energy harvested via the light reaction is stored by forming a chemical called ATP (adenosine triphosphate), a compound used by cells for energy storage. This chemical is made of the nucleotide adenine bonded to a ribose sugar, and that is bonded to three phosphate groups. This molecule is very similar to the building blocks for our DNA.

The dark reaction takes place in the stroma within the chloroplast, and converts CO2 to sugar. This reaction doesn't directly need light in order to occur, but it does need the products of the light reaction (ATP and another chemical called NADPH). The dark reaction involves a cycle called the Calvin cycle in which CO2 and energy from ATP are used to form sugar. Actually, notice that the first product of photosynthesis is a three-carbon compound called glyceraldehyde 3-phosphate. Almost immediately, two of these join to form a glucose molecule.

Most plants put CO2 directly into the Calvin cycle. Thus the first stable organic compound formed is the glyceraldehyde 3-phosphate. Since that molecule contains three carbon atoms, these plants are called C3 plants. For all plants, hot summer weather increases the amount of water that evaporates from the plant. Plants lessen the amount of water that evaporates by keeping their stomates closed during hot, dry weather. Unfortunately, this means that once the CO2 in their leaves reaches a low level, they must stop doing photosynthesis. Even if there is a tiny bit of CO2 left, the enzymes used to grab it and put it into the Calvin cycle just don't have enough CO2 to use. Typically the grass in our yards just turns brown and goes dormant. Some plants like crabgrass, corn, and sugar cane have a special modification to conserve water. These plants capture CO2 in a different way: they do an extra step first, before doing the Calvin cycle. These plants have a special enzyme that can work better, even at very low CO2 levels, to grab CO2 and turn it first into oxaloacetate, which contains four carbons. Thus, these plants are called C4 plants. The CO2 is then released from the oxaloacetate and put into the Calvin cycle. This is why crabgrass can stay green and keep growing when all the rest of your grass is dried up and brown

There is yet another strategy to cope with very hot, dry, desert weather and conserve water. Some plants (for example, cacti and pineapple) that live in extremely hot, dry areas like deserts, can only safely open their stomates at night when the weather is cool. Thus, there is no chance for them to get the CO2 needed for the dark reaction during the daytime. At night when they can open their stomates and take in CO2, these plants incorporate the CO2 into various organic compounds to store it. In the daytime, when the light reaction is occurring and ATP is available (but the stomates must remain closed), they take the CO2 from these organic compounds and put it into the Calvin cycle. These plants are called CAM plants, which stands for crassulacean acid metabolism after the plant family, Crassulaceae (which includes the garden plant Sedum) where this process was first discovered.

KEEP YOUR LEAVES PEOPLE !

ganja man1 03-01-2012 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b0b_b1tch1n (Post 154072)
BUDS DO NOT FEED BUDS , LEAVES FEED BUDS , WHEN WILL YOU GET THAT THROUGH YOUR THICK SKULL :confused:

stop claiming deleafing is a good thing , it is NOT ! you want the light hitting the leaves , they photosynthisis,,,,,,

(A lengthy article. I wonder if this guy has ever tried growing indoor cannabis :confused: )

KEEP YOUR LEAVES PEOPLE !

I never said buds feed buds, did I? And I thought the nutes you fed the plant feeds the whole plant, including the leaves AND buds.

Why are you being so mean to me? Why tell me that I have a thick skull? I don't understand. Are you being mean to me because I don't grow the way you do? :confused:

I should also state that I'm talking about indoor cannabis plants which is the only plant I grow ATM. Other plants (such as cactus or fig trees etc) I don't know if defoliation is good in them cases. I've never grown them types of plants before, yet alone try deleafing them :confused:

GoodBuddy 03-01-2012 06:18 PM

I find myself that it's only worth 'deleafing', or more specifically 'trimming' just before you flip photoperiods to flowering cycle. And even then sparingly, as we want to keep all stress/recovery times to an absolute minimum.

This is simply to remove any really straggly lower growth which is only going to produce popcorn and direct the plants energies towards the remaining stronger branches.

Any healthy fan leaves...leave em where they are. It's a bit like having a ferrari and pulling out a couple of spark plugs otherwise. It still looks like a ferrari but performance is gonna be seriously compromised :cool: And in canna land that means reduced yields and/or increased flower times!

ganja man1 03-01-2012 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoodBuddy (Post 154086)
I find myself that it's only worth 'deleafing', or more specifically 'trimming' just before you flip photoperiods to flowering cycle. And even then sparingly, as we want to keep all stress/recovery times to an absolute minimum.

This is simply to remove any really straggly lower growth which is only going to produce popcorn and direct the plants energies towards the remaining stronger branches.

Any healthy fan leaves...leave em where they are. It's a bit like having a ferrari and pulling out a couple of spark plugs otherwise. It still looks like a ferrari but performance is gonna be seriously compromised :cool: And in canna land that means reduced yields and/or increased flower times!

Well you can't compare a ferrari with a bit of weed, can you :confused:

b0b_b1tch1n 03-01-2012 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ganja man1 (Post 154084)
I never said buds feed buds, did I? And I thought the nutes you fed the plant feeds the whole plant, including the leaves AND buds.

Why are you being so mean to me? Why tell me that I have a thick skull? I don't understand. Are you being mean to me because I don't grow the way you do? :confused:

I should also state that I'm talking about indoor cannabis plants which is the only plant I grow ATM. Other plants (such as cactus or fig trees etc) I don't know if defoliation is good in them cases. I've never grown them types of plants before, yet alone try deleafing them :confused:

without photosinthesis it doent matter what or how much you feed your plants indoors or out , and im not trying to be mean im trying to get it through to you because you obviously have NOT been growing long enough to understand what is what

you NEED the leaves or your wasting your time giving the plants nutes , the leaves take the nutes and convert them into the needed sugars , energy ect ect

its been scientifically proven and its been proven by growers such as ourselves over and over and over

KEEP YOUR LEAVES PEOPLE , GOD GAVE PLANTS LEAVES FOR A REASON !

peace :cool:

ganja man1 03-01-2012 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b0b_b1tch1n (Post 154089)
without photosinthesis it doent matter what or how much you feed your plants indoors or out , and im not trying to be mean im trying to get it through to you because you obviously have NOT been growing long enough to understand what is what

you NEED the leaves or your wasting your time giving the plants nutes , the leaves take the nutes and convert them into the needed sugars , energy ect ect

its been scientifically proven and its been proven by growers such as ourselves over and over and over

KEEP YOUR LEAVES PEOPLE , GOD GAVE PLANTS LEAVES FOR A REASON !

peace :cool:

And you obviously don't know how long I've been growing so I would kindly ask you to stop making negative comments like that please b0b thank you.

You have to defoliate properly. I've NEVER stated that you should chop off each and every single leaf.

I just posted a pic of a plant which has been defoliated throughout her veg cycle. Does it look like she hasn't been photosynthesising?

It's NOT been scientifically proven by ganja growers and you still have not directed me to the "many side by sides" that you have previously stated. Pics or vids of these side by sides b0b?

GoodBuddy 03-01-2012 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ganja man1 (Post 154087)
Well you can't compare a ferrari with a bit of weed, can you :confused:

bamboozled both scientifically and metaphorically are we?

GM, you're happy the way you do it and that's fine by me, but there's bad advice and good advice, it takes a wise man to know the difference and from what I can make out you might not be too wise.

PS, I don't agree with all the constant bitching against you, but reading the thread I can understand it. It's a shame, but that's life and we all have to live it our own way.:)

ganja man1 03-01-2012 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoodBuddy (Post 154096)
bamboozled both scientifically and metaphorically are we?

GM, you're happy the way you do it and that's fine by me, but there's bad advice and good advice, it takes a wise man to know the difference and from what I can make out you might not be too wise.

PS, I don't agree with all the constant bitching against you, but reading the thread I can understand it. It's a shame, but that's life and we all have to live it our own way.:)

Hi man. Don't worry about all the bitchin against me. Let them bitch I say. I'm more interested in sharing growing methods and listening to other people's experiences.

And talking of wisdom, when it comes to de-leafing I'd rather listen to people who have proven that they've done both, ie grown leafy and non leafy plants. That's what us wise people do ;)

So I ask you GoodBuddy. The plant I posted has been defoliated big time during veg. Does she look poorly to you?

GoodBuddy 03-01-2012 07:08 PM

It's not about looking poorly though, I could totally lollipop a plant and leave a single node on there....it would still look healthy, that's just the ability to grow which is something completely different to maximising the yield. ;)

b0b_b1tch1n 03-01-2012 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ganja man1 (Post 154095)
And you obviously don't know how long I've been growing so I would kindly ask you to stop making negative comments like that please b0b thank you.

You have to defoliate properly. I've NEVER stated that you should chop off each and every single leaf.

I just posted a pic of a plant which has been defoliated throughout her veg cycle. Does it look like she hasn't been photosynthesising?

It's NOT been scientifically proven by ganja growers and you still have not directed me to the "many side by sides" that you have previously stated. Pics or vids of these side by sides b0b?

omg , many MANY MANY of us proved it long before the internet and LONG before beginners like you started asking for pics and vids :rolleyes:

it has been scientifically PROVEN by biologists and horticulturalists MANY times , google it and LEARN something insted of spouting off your nonsense

why dont you show us all some SCIENTIFIC PROOF that claims your method is better ? when searching for proof you will find all sorts of articals PROVING you should keep the leaves

stop argueing because there has been proof posted all over this forum and others and you simply refuse to believe it :rolleyes:

you keep mentioning "your" guru has been growing for 3 decades , well SO HAVE I , and i was pulling leaves back when you werent even born yet , but thats because i didnt know any better , back then most growers believed what you believe today , BUT ,,,,, we have now and long ago been shown reasons and proof why to not believe what you believe

stop argueing , you have been given the proof you keep asking for , you just ignore it every time :rolleyes:

peace :cool:

Billy Liar 03-01-2012 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sensimilla13 (Post 153980)
I only had to read the first few lines to know that it is not very applicable because just as barley above, all these plants are monocots. Cannabis is a dicot. Before anyone says monocot and dicot plant classification isn't used any more in a rigorous way...I can assure you there are huge differences in physiology and response to environmental conditions between grasses (monocots like barley and the ones intje paper above) and dicot plants like cannabis.

Plus, all you have to do is pull some fan leaves from a branch and watch the bud hit the pause button.

Sensi

we'll be talking about the calvin benson cycle next, doesn't that happen in leaves...... LOL
So sensi, is cannabis a C3 or a C4 type? This refers to carbon fixing during photosyntesis in leaves afaik...
Peace
BL

ganja man1 03-01-2012 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b0b_b1tch1n (Post 154101)
omg , many MANY MANY of us proved it long before the internet and LONG before beginners like you started asking for pics and vids :rolleyes:

Again, you refer to me as a beginner, but you have no idea how long I've been growing.

it has been scientifically PROVEN by biologists and horticulturalists MANY times , google it and LEARN something insted of spouting off your nonsense

why dont you show us all some SCIENTIFIC PROOF that claims your method is better ? when searching for proof you will find all sorts of articals PROVING you should keep the leaves

First of all I don't do science. I grow weed. I'm not interested in lengthy articles full of latin words. I'm interested in visual proof. Pics and vids etc. That kind of thing.


stop argueing because there has been proof posted all over this forum and others and you simply refuse to believe it :rolleyes:

You're the one who should stop arguing. In fact, I find you so argumentative and insultive that this will be the last time I respond to you.

you keep mentioning "your" guru has been growing for 3 decades , well SO HAVE I , and i was pulling leaves back when you werent even born yet , but thats because i didnt know any better , back then most growers believed what you believe today , BUT ,,,,, we have now and long ago been shown reasons and proof why to not believe what you believe

He's not "my" guru. You say that you've been growing for 3 decades too but so far I've not seen anything from you that shows this. All I've seen is your botm entry and the seedlings in your gallery. Have you got any pics of big plants please?

stop argueing , you have been given the proof you keep asking for , you just ignore it every time :rolleyes:

peace :cool:

Again, I'm not arguing. You are. You haven't given me any proof that de-leafing is bad for the plants. I on the other hand, have given you PICS that deleafing is good.

@GoodBuddy: I know it's not about looking poorly, but someone came into my thread and said that my plants look "poorly". So I ask again. Do you or anyone else think that the plant I posted in this thread looks poorly, yes or no? Not trying to start a shitstorm, just looking for some feedback.

TonyG 03-01-2012 09:02 PM

Hey GM1,

I will admitt that I also disagree with your point of views about defoliation. I wouldnt be able to express my beliefs on the subject better than bob or sensi has, so I wont try. Yes, your plant looks healthy in your pic but also looks scraggly to me. Scraggly for lack of a better word. And thats as critical as I will be on the matter. What you do in your grow room doesnt affect what goes on in mine.

I do understand what your are trying to say, however. About your firm beliefs on the subject. Which brings me to offering a side by side, that I will do a grow log for everyone to see and judge the themselves. I will do 2 plants of the same strain, one exactly how you tell me to do it and the other how I usually grow it. I would need some more info on your method as Im aware you probably do some things habitually, like a lot of people, that doesnt get explained in detail. I have plants at 6 inches tall right now I can start immediately. I will let you determine veg time and everything else should be pretty straight forward.

If you or anyone else does not want me to do this experiment, then entertaining the ide as is as far as I will go with it.

Peace

ganja man1 03-01-2012 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyG (Post 154119)
Hey GM1,

I will admitt that I also disagree with your point of views about defoliation. I wouldnt be able to express my beliefs on the subject better than bob or sensi has, so I wont try. Yes, your plant looks healthy in your pic but also looks scraggly to me. Scraggly for lack of a better word. And thats as critical as I will be on the matter. What you do in your grow room doesnt affect what goes on in mine.

I do understand what your are trying to say, however. About your firm beliefs on the subject. Which brings me to offering a side by side, that I will do a grow log for everyone to see and judge the themselves. I will do 2 plants of the same strain, one exactly how you tell me to do it and the other how I usually grow it. I would need some more info on your method as Im aware you probably do some things habitually, like a lot of people, that doesnt get explained in detail. I have plants at 6 inches tall right now I can start immediately. I will let you determine veg time and everything else should be pretty straight forward.

If you or anyone else does not want me to do this experiment, then entertaining the ide as is as far as I will go with it.

Peace

So what you're saying is that my plant is healthy and scraggly :confused:

I must ask myself if I can trust that you would do the side by side fairly. You're one of the guys who goes around hitting the "like" button when people attack me after all so please forgive me if I show you lack of trust.

Got a pic of the plants you wanna do the side by side with? Full plant pics in their growing area would be a great help. I need to know lights too for cloning, veg and flower.

b0b_b1tch1n 03-01-2012 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyG (Post 154119)
Hey GM1,

I will admitt that I also disagree with your point of views about defoliation. I wouldnt be able to express my beliefs on the subject better than bob or sensi has, so I wont try. Yes, your plant looks healthy in your pic but also looks scraggly to me. Scraggly for lack of a better word. And thats as critical as I will be on the matter. What you do in your grow room doesnt affect what goes on in mine.

I do understand what your are trying to say, however. About your firm beliefs on the subject. Which brings me to offering a side by side, that I will do a grow log for everyone to see and judge the themselves. I will do 2 plants of the same strain, one exactly how you tell me to do it and the other how I usually grow it. I would need some more info on your method as Im aware you probably do some things habitually, like a lot of people, that doesnt get explained in detail. I have plants at 6 inches tall right now I can start immediately. I will let you determine veg time and everything else should be pretty straight forward.

If you or anyone else does not want me to do this experiment, then entertaining the ide as is as far as I will go with it.

Peace

thats awesome that you are willing to risk losing yeild , money , and time on this experiment , but please be advised that gm1 is not someone you should take advice/instruction from , there are many others who use his method and have been for a long time , but gm1 himself is admitedly new to it , he came here not long ago admitting he was "learning" and seeking advice , jump forward not very far to today and now he rambles on like some sort of expert :rolleyes:

imo i wouldnt risk it if i were you , and remember , for years i grew his way and over the many many years i have done side by sides , even within the last couple years , and NEVER has a defoliated plant done better , the opposite infact

peace and best of luck whatever you deside :cool:

Sensimilla13 03-01-2012 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billy Liar (Post 154103)
we'll be talking about the calvin benson cycle next, doesn't that happen in leaves...... LOL
So sensi, is cannabis a C3 or a C4 type? This refers to carbon fixing during photosyntesis in leaves afaik...
Peace
BL

Hey BL,
As far as I know it is a C3 plant and yes it describes the type of compound produced during photosynthesis, phosphoglycerate (C3) or oxaloacetate (C4). Here is some basic info.

Types of Photosynthesis

All this info is a little more detailed than necessary...when you remove fan leaves you instantly reduce the photosynthetic capacity significantly. While elemental nutrients are required for plant growth and development most nutrients are not needed to "fix" carbons...or capture it from the atmosphere as co2. All the subsequent reactions that are dependent on enzymes most certainly require elemental nutrients.

Indoor/ outdoor anywhere you want...the more photosynthesis the better (under healthy growing conditions). Also, another often over-looked aspect of defoliating is that leaves act as huge storage reserves for sugar, nitrogen and other compounds that are used to feed growing seed at the end of the life-cycle. In the case of sinsemilla the nutrients are like used for resin production and further flower growth.

One last word...trimming up the bottom that is under the canopy is different because you remove the the shoot that is also associated with each fan leaf. Plus this is beneficial to the canopy and then one also doesn't have to trim up scraggly popcorn!

Cheers,
Sensi

b0b_b1tch1n 03-01-2012 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ganja man1 (Post 154106)
Again, I'm not arguing. You are. You haven't given me any proof that de-leafing is bad for the plants. I on the other hand, have given you PICS that deleafing is good.

@GoodBuddy: I know it's not about looking poorly, but someone came into my thread and said that my plants look "poorly". So I ask again. Do you or anyone else think that the plant I posted in this thread looks poorly, yes or no? Not trying to start a shitstorm, just looking for some feedback.

you have NOT given me pics that deleafing is good , you give pics of plants that look like they could fall over at any time , you have posted up pics of 3 foot plants with a stalk that is lucky to be as round as a pencil for crying out loud , and you claim i havent given you proof that deleafing is bad , ARE YOU BLIND !!!!! CAN YOU NOT READ ????

and you have the nerv to call other members n00b , i guess you are the black pot after all :rolleyes:

say hi to the kettle for us ;)

peace :cool:

EDIT : well said Sensimilla13

Billy Liar 03-01-2012 09:23 PM

ok no-one biting on the calvin benson cycle???
If i'm right what gm1's method is supposed to achieve is... If you remove fans from a young or vegging plant, then the plant will stunt and force energy to the new growth/young branches (because the plant needs to get back its fans). Which as gm1 states become budsites, so he is in fact creating more budsites, although this is a trade off for longer veg times, which decreases productivity. He has shown us his plants vegged for 6 weeks, so why don't we all show him what our plants look like after 6 weeks of veg? I know mine with no defoliation or pruning have a lot more budsites than his.
So c'mon folks get your six week veg shots out for the lads.... LOL
Peace
BL

Billy Liar 03-01-2012 09:28 PM

cheers sensi mate. I've been well informed that cannabis like tobbacco acts as a c4 type photosythesis plant when in hydro such as passive or actve type systems. Could you clarify this?
Peace
BL

b0b_b1tch1n 03-01-2012 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billy Liar (Post 154130)
ok no-one biting on the calvin benson cycle???
If i'm right what gm1's method is supposed to achieve is... If you remove fans from a young or vegging plant, then the plant will stunt and force energy to the new growth/young branches (because the plant needs to get back its fans). Which as gm1 states become budsites, so he is in fact creating more budsites, although this is a trade off for longer veg times, which decreases productivity. He has shown us his plants vegged for 6 weeks, so why don't we all show him what our plants look like after 6 weeks of veg? I know mine with no defoliation or pruning have a lot more budsites than his.
So c'mon folks get your six week veg shots out for the lads.... LOL
Peace
BL

oh damn , your gunna make me (and possibly others) sprout some beans now arent you :p , i wont have room for them if i sprout some now , and normally only veg until pre flower 4 weeks to MAYBE 6 weeks if needed , but ill soon pop some seeds and let em go a full 6 weeks into veg if you still want me to when i open some space for em

peace :cool:

ganja man1 03-01-2012 09:39 PM

Billy, you grow trees with full on hydroponics and a ton of light, along with different strains.

If we had the same amount of light, same strain, grown in the same medium, vegged for say 8 weeks. My plant would have much more budsites than yours

b0b_b1tch1n 03-01-2012 09:41 PM

here is something i have posted in the past and will now post again ,,,,,

the leaves are your plants solar panel so to speak and also your plants sugar factory so who in thier right mind would want to remove them ? would you remove 2 spark plug wires from your car and expect it to perform better ?

when you remove leaves the plant grows new ones trying to replace the lost ones , well that takes energy , energy that would be better spent on other areas of growth

cutting leaves will result in release of stress hormones. Most people who argue fervently otherwise think they know what they're talking about, they don't. All your leaves should be absorbing light. Even the leaves below collect light

if you prune during flowering then you will get leafy bud as the plant tries to replace the removed leaves

people keep saying do side by side or id like to see a side by side , well if you have grown long enough you will have already done it , its been DONE TO DEATH , and yes ive done it , i get better fuller , denser , bigger , heavier buds WHEN I DONT PRUNE LEAVES

ive harvested plants with huge fan leaves and the lower buds were all the same size and weight (some were covered by a leaf and some were not)

ive surounded plants with light from top to bottom and the lower buds REMAIN SMALL , they are small because the plants send thier shit to the high spots , proof of that is on every branch , the top/end bud is always biggest , even when any below it are recieving un-shaded light

im about to harvest plants grown with lights hung vert , the top buds are biggest even though the lower ones are exactly the same distance from the light

simply put , it isnt leaves causeing any slower/smaller growth , its just naturally the way your plants grow

but by all meens , if you want to stress your plants , grow leafy buds , remove your plants solar panels and sugar factories then go for it

each to thier own

peace :cool:

Billy Liar 03-01-2012 10:00 PM

seems you done your home work....lol
I thought you used hydro too?
I also use relativly low levels of light and power.
And I think the small investment in time and equipment to change from passive to highflow active hydro is a good trade off compared to deleafing plants to slow them down and force branching, which is all deleafing does. Side lighting forces branching, and a 40 pond pump creates more dissolved oxygen than the plant needs. So after 5 weeks I can have a plant ready to flip with masses of budsites, and is around 5ft tall and the same in diameter. Then I can start to prune sucker growth so all the energy is used by the colas.
If you learn to understand principles of plant growth you can design your grow room around them, making for faster growing plants with bigger buds. And quicker turnarounds of harvests. People have been doing this for years, and using refractometers helped people learn the importance of leaves, so now leaves are tucked out of the way instead of removed... Its pretty old news really...
Peace
BL
PS I did the side by side's about 5yfs bc (before cameras...!)

ganja man1 03-01-2012 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billy Liar (Post 154159)
seems you done your home work....lol
I thought you used hydro too?
I also use relativly low levels of light and power.
And I think the small investment in time and equipment to change from passive to highflow active hydro is a good trade off compared to deleafing plants to slow them down and force branching, which is all deleafing does. Side lighting forces branching, and a 40 pond pump creates more dissolved oxygen than the plant needs. So after 5 weeks I can have a plant ready to flip with masses of budsites, and is around 5ft tall and the same in diameter. Then I can start to prune sucker growth so all the energy is used by the colas.
If you learn to understand principles of plant growth you can design your grow room around them, making for faster growing plants with bigger buds. And quicker turnarounds of harvests. People have been doing this for years, and using refractometers helped people learn the importance of leaves, so now leaves are tucked out of the way instead of removed... Its pretty old news really...
Peace
BL
PS I did the side by side's about 5yfs bc (before cameras...!)

If you deleafed your plants in one of your modded up krusty buckets, then you'd have much more budsites I reckon. Still, I do like your trees man

Billy Liar 03-01-2012 10:09 PM

I agree, but my point is, there is a trade off, and the trade off is TIME!
Peace
BL

Sensimilla13 03-01-2012 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billy Liar (Post 154135)
cheers sensi mate. I've been well informed that cannabis like tobbacco acts as a c4 type photosythesis plant when in hydro such as passive or actve type systems. Could you clarify this?
Peace
BL

I don't know for sure TBH if it is C3 or C4 because i havent seen any scientific data. I got the C3 reference from Ed Rosenthal. What I do know is that plants can't Be both C3 and C4. This is genetically programmed and not impacted by environmental conditions.

The first sentence of the intro (not the abstract) clearly states this. If something newer came out I am unaware of it.

http://www.es.ucsc.edu/~pkoch/EART_2...%20112-285.pdf

Cheers,
Sensi

TonyG 03-01-2012 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ganja man1 (Post 154122)
So what you're saying is that my plant is healthy and scraggly :confused:

I must ask myself if I can trust that you would do the side by side fairly. You're one of the guys who goes around hitting the "like" button when people attack me after all so please forgive me if I show you lack of trust.

Got a pic of the plants you wanna do the side by side with? Full plant pics in their growing area would be a great help. I need to know lights too for cloning, veg and flower.

What I liked about the posts was the information that was given I agreed with, not the personal attacks against you. I don't blame you for not being completely able to trust me, but due to the fact that we don't know each other not that I have done something untrust worthy on the forum. I basically stated that you could set the terms for this experiment and I am currently doing three other grow threads. So if you want to know what I consider a grow log to be, feel free to check them out anytime. This experiment was intended to be conducted fairly to further expierence and knowledge, not to be manipulated to favor one side or the other.

All that BS aside, you being so defensive and quick to judge my character tells me that I can assume that no matter how hard I try to make this fair you'll still find a reason why I didn't do a good enough job representing your method. Beyond you, I don't know anyone else on this forum either. I'm not a groupie following someone around hiding behind a "Like" button and if you don't like the answers you get from a question you asked then don't ask them. I meant your plant was green but that you shouldn't have stripped the fan leaves off. I cant explain it better than that. No one is here to coddle your pride and agree with everything you say. Ive seen the same amount of criticism from your posts about other peoples opinions as they have about yours. Watch being a hypocrite.

Obviously my suggestion was a huge mistake, sorry for making it. Do your thing bro and good luck with it. Im gonna end this before it gets any worse.

Jonny Rotten 03-04-2012 03:57 PM

Ill probably regret even participating in this thread, but GanjaMan, what are the benefits you feel are derived from defoliation?

zesk 03-04-2012 05:33 PM

hi J.R

iv'e been thinking about this leaf lark lately and was wandering what everyone thinks about removing foliage if a plants root bound. equal out the root/leaf ratio, less to support?

Jonny Rotten 03-04-2012 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zesk (Post 154604)
hi J.R

iv'e been thinking about this leaf lark lately and was wandering what everyone thinks about removing foliage if a plants root bound. equal out the root/leaf ratio, less to support?

I no longer believe in 'rootbound' after having plants in small containers for extended periods of time. The plants looked great and grew just fine as long as I kept them fed and watered. The only drawback was they grew smaller and lateral branching was reduced.

If you feel your ladies need a repot, just move them up in size. I dont defoliate, and the few advantage(s) Ive often heard attributed to it can easily be duplicated without removing fan leaves.


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