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  #11  
Old 03-01-2012, 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted by ganja man1 View Post
This is true (well almost). I would NEVER de-leaf an outdoor crop if I grew outdoors.

Also, I've NEVER seen an indoor side by side done. If someone can point me in the direction of a side by side (pics, vids etc) then I would be most grateful.

Also, when de-leafing indoors, you MUST start from early veg. This is so that you can prepare the plant during the veg stage. Starting deleafing when the plant has already gone into flower is a big NO NO.

This plant has been deleafed loads before she went into flower...

When she went into flower she still had loads of leaves. They do grow back as you can see in my pic. And she'll be deleafed again later on because her buds are starting to develop. In an indoor garden, you wanna get the light hitting them budsites. Outdoor is a totally different ball game
BUDS DO NOT FEED BUDS , LEAVES FEED BUDS , WHEN WILL YOU GET THAT THROUGH YOUR THICK SKULL

stop claiming deleafing is a good thing , it is NOT ! you want the light hitting the leaves , they photosynthisis,,,,,,

Photosynthesis

Photosynthesis is the process of converting light energy to chemical energy and storing it in the bonds of sugar. This process occurs in plants and some algae (Kingdom Protista). Plants need only light energy, CO2, and H2O to make sugar. The process of photosynthesis takes place in the chloroplasts, specifically using chlorophyll, the green pigment involved in photosynthesis.

Photosynthesis takes place primarily in plant leaves, and little to none occurs in stems, etc. The parts of a typical leaf include the upper and lower epidermis, the mesophyll, the vascular bundle(s) (veins), and the stomates. The upper and lower epidermal cells do not have chloroplasts, thus photosynthesis does not occur there. They serve primarily as protection for the rest of the leaf. The stomates are holes which occur primarily in the lower epidermis and are for air exchange: they let CO2 in and O2 out. The vascular bundles or veins in a leaf are part of the plant's transportation system, moving water and nutrients around the plant as needed. The mesophyll cells have chloroplasts and this is where photosynthesis occurs.

As you hopefully recall, the parts of a chloroplast include the outer and inner membranes, intermembrane space, stroma, and thylakoids stacked in grana. The chlorophyll is built into the membranes of the thylakoids.

Chlorophyll looks green because it absorbs red and blue light, making these colors unavailable to be seen by our eyes. It is the green light which is NOT absorbed that finally reaches our eyes, making chlorophyll appear green. However, it is the energy from the red and blue light that are absorbed that is, thereby, able to be used to do photosynthesis. The green light we can see is not/cannot be absorbed by the plant, and thus cannot be used to do photosynthesis.

The overall chemical reaction involved in photosynthesis is: 6CO2 + 6H2O (+ light energy) C6H12O6 + 6O2. This is the source of the O2 we breathe, and thus, a significant factor in the concerns about deforestation.

There are two parts to photosynthesis:

The light reaction happens in the thylakoid membrane and converts light energy to chemical energy. This chemical reaction must, therefore, take place in the light. Chlorophyll and several other pigments such as beta-carotene are organized in clusters in the thylakoid membrane and are involved in the light reaction. Each of these differently-colored pigments can absorb a slightly different color of light and pass its energy to the central chlorphyll molecule to do photosynthesis. The central part of the chemical structure of a chlorophyll molecule is a porphyrin ring, which consists of several fused rings of carbon and nitrogen with a magnesium ion in the center.

The energy harvested via the light reaction is stored by forming a chemical called ATP (adenosine triphosphate), a compound used by cells for energy storage. This chemical is made of the nucleotide adenine bonded to a ribose sugar, and that is bonded to three phosphate groups. This molecule is very similar to the building blocks for our DNA.

The dark reaction takes place in the stroma within the chloroplast, and converts CO2 to sugar. This reaction doesn't directly need light in order to occur, but it does need the products of the light reaction (ATP and another chemical called NADPH). The dark reaction involves a cycle called the Calvin cycle in which CO2 and energy from ATP are used to form sugar. Actually, notice that the first product of photosynthesis is a three-carbon compound called glyceraldehyde 3-phosphate. Almost immediately, two of these join to form a glucose molecule.

Most plants put CO2 directly into the Calvin cycle. Thus the first stable organic compound formed is the glyceraldehyde 3-phosphate. Since that molecule contains three carbon atoms, these plants are called C3 plants. For all plants, hot summer weather increases the amount of water that evaporates from the plant. Plants lessen the amount of water that evaporates by keeping their stomates closed during hot, dry weather. Unfortunately, this means that once the CO2 in their leaves reaches a low level, they must stop doing photosynthesis. Even if there is a tiny bit of CO2 left, the enzymes used to grab it and put it into the Calvin cycle just don't have enough CO2 to use. Typically the grass in our yards just turns brown and goes dormant. Some plants like crabgrass, corn, and sugar cane have a special modification to conserve water. These plants capture CO2 in a different way: they do an extra step first, before doing the Calvin cycle. These plants have a special enzyme that can work better, even at very low CO2 levels, to grab CO2 and turn it first into oxaloacetate, which contains four carbons. Thus, these plants are called C4 plants. The CO2 is then released from the oxaloacetate and put into the Calvin cycle. This is why crabgrass can stay green and keep growing when all the rest of your grass is dried up and brown

There is yet another strategy to cope with very hot, dry, desert weather and conserve water. Some plants (for example, cacti and pineapple) that live in extremely hot, dry areas like deserts, can only safely open their stomates at night when the weather is cool. Thus, there is no chance for them to get the CO2 needed for the dark reaction during the daytime. At night when they can open their stomates and take in CO2, these plants incorporate the CO2 into various organic compounds to store it. In the daytime, when the light reaction is occurring and ATP is available (but the stomates must remain closed), they take the CO2 from these organic compounds and put it into the Calvin cycle. These plants are called CAM plants, which stands for crassulacean acid metabolism after the plant family, Crassulaceae (which includes the garden plant Sedum) where this process was first discovered.

KEEP YOUR LEAVES PEOPLE !
  #12  
Old 03-01-2012, 06:15 PM
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Originally Posted by b0b_b1tch1n View Post
BUDS DO NOT FEED BUDS , LEAVES FEED BUDS , WHEN WILL YOU GET THAT THROUGH YOUR THICK SKULL

stop claiming deleafing is a good thing , it is NOT ! you want the light hitting the leaves , they photosynthisis,,,,,,

(A lengthy article. I wonder if this guy has ever tried growing indoor cannabis )

KEEP YOUR LEAVES PEOPLE !
I never said buds feed buds, did I? And I thought the nutes you fed the plant feeds the whole plant, including the leaves AND buds.

Why are you being so mean to me? Why tell me that I have a thick skull? I don't understand. Are you being mean to me because I don't grow the way you do?

I should also state that I'm talking about indoor cannabis plants which is the only plant I grow ATM. Other plants (such as cactus or fig trees etc) I don't know if defoliation is good in them cases. I've never grown them types of plants before, yet alone try deleafing them

Last edited by ganja man1; 03-01-2012 at 06:18 PM.
  #13  
Old 03-01-2012, 06:18 PM
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I find myself that it's only worth 'deleafing', or more specifically 'trimming' just before you flip photoperiods to flowering cycle. And even then sparingly, as we want to keep all stress/recovery times to an absolute minimum.

This is simply to remove any really straggly lower growth which is only going to produce popcorn and direct the plants energies towards the remaining stronger branches.

Any healthy fan leaves...leave em where they are. It's a bit like having a ferrari and pulling out a couple of spark plugs otherwise. It still looks like a ferrari but performance is gonna be seriously compromised And in canna land that means reduced yields and/or increased flower times!
  #14  
Old 03-01-2012, 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by GoodBuddy View Post
I find myself that it's only worth 'deleafing', or more specifically 'trimming' just before you flip photoperiods to flowering cycle. And even then sparingly, as we want to keep all stress/recovery times to an absolute minimum.

This is simply to remove any really straggly lower growth which is only going to produce popcorn and direct the plants energies towards the remaining stronger branches.

Any healthy fan leaves...leave em where they are. It's a bit like having a ferrari and pulling out a couple of spark plugs otherwise. It still looks like a ferrari but performance is gonna be seriously compromised And in canna land that means reduced yields and/or increased flower times!
Well you can't compare a ferrari with a bit of weed, can you
  #15  
Old 03-01-2012, 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by ganja man1 View Post
I never said buds feed buds, did I? And I thought the nutes you fed the plant feeds the whole plant, including the leaves AND buds.

Why are you being so mean to me? Why tell me that I have a thick skull? I don't understand. Are you being mean to me because I don't grow the way you do?

I should also state that I'm talking about indoor cannabis plants which is the only plant I grow ATM. Other plants (such as cactus or fig trees etc) I don't know if defoliation is good in them cases. I've never grown them types of plants before, yet alone try deleafing them
without photosinthesis it doent matter what or how much you feed your plants indoors or out , and im not trying to be mean im trying to get it through to you because you obviously have NOT been growing long enough to understand what is what

you NEED the leaves or your wasting your time giving the plants nutes , the leaves take the nutes and convert them into the needed sugars , energy ect ect

its been scientifically proven and its been proven by growers such as ourselves over and over and over

KEEP YOUR LEAVES PEOPLE , GOD GAVE PLANTS LEAVES FOR A REASON !

peace
  #16  
Old 03-01-2012, 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by b0b_b1tch1n View Post
without photosinthesis it doent matter what or how much you feed your plants indoors or out , and im not trying to be mean im trying to get it through to you because you obviously have NOT been growing long enough to understand what is what

you NEED the leaves or your wasting your time giving the plants nutes , the leaves take the nutes and convert them into the needed sugars , energy ect ect

its been scientifically proven and its been proven by growers such as ourselves over and over and over

KEEP YOUR LEAVES PEOPLE , GOD GAVE PLANTS LEAVES FOR A REASON !

peace
And you obviously don't know how long I've been growing so I would kindly ask you to stop making negative comments like that please b0b thank you.

You have to defoliate properly. I've NEVER stated that you should chop off each and every single leaf.

I just posted a pic of a plant which has been defoliated throughout her veg cycle. Does it look like she hasn't been photosynthesising?

It's NOT been scientifically proven by ganja growers and you still have not directed me to the "many side by sides" that you have previously stated. Pics or vids of these side by sides b0b?

Last edited by ganja man1; 03-01-2012 at 06:57 PM.
  #17  
Old 03-01-2012, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by ganja man1 View Post
Well you can't compare a ferrari with a bit of weed, can you
bamboozled both scientifically and metaphorically are we?

GM, you're happy the way you do it and that's fine by me, but there's bad advice and good advice, it takes a wise man to know the difference and from what I can make out you might not be too wise.

PS, I don't agree with all the constant bitching against you, but reading the thread I can understand it. It's a shame, but that's life and we all have to live it our own way.
  #18  
Old 03-01-2012, 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by GoodBuddy View Post
bamboozled both scientifically and metaphorically are we?

GM, you're happy the way you do it and that's fine by me, but there's bad advice and good advice, it takes a wise man to know the difference and from what I can make out you might not be too wise.

PS, I don't agree with all the constant bitching against you, but reading the thread I can understand it. It's a shame, but that's life and we all have to live it our own way.
Hi man. Don't worry about all the bitchin against me. Let them bitch I say. I'm more interested in sharing growing methods and listening to other people's experiences.

And talking of wisdom, when it comes to de-leafing I'd rather listen to people who have proven that they've done both, ie grown leafy and non leafy plants. That's what us wise people do

So I ask you GoodBuddy. The plant I posted has been defoliated big time during veg. Does she look poorly to you?
  #19  
Old 03-01-2012, 07:08 PM
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It's not about looking poorly though, I could totally lollipop a plant and leave a single node on there....it would still look healthy, that's just the ability to grow which is something completely different to maximising the yield.
  #20  
Old 03-01-2012, 07:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ganja man1 View Post
And you obviously don't know how long I've been growing so I would kindly ask you to stop making negative comments like that please b0b thank you.

You have to defoliate properly. I've NEVER stated that you should chop off each and every single leaf.

I just posted a pic of a plant which has been defoliated throughout her veg cycle. Does it look like she hasn't been photosynthesising?

It's NOT been scientifically proven by ganja growers and you still have not directed me to the "many side by sides" that you have previously stated. Pics or vids of these side by sides b0b?
omg , many MANY MANY of us proved it long before the internet and LONG before beginners like you started asking for pics and vids

it has been scientifically PROVEN by biologists and horticulturalists MANY times , google it and LEARN something insted of spouting off your nonsense

why dont you show us all some SCIENTIFIC PROOF that claims your method is better ? when searching for proof you will find all sorts of articals PROVING you should keep the leaves

stop argueing because there has been proof posted all over this forum and others and you simply refuse to believe it

you keep mentioning "your" guru has been growing for 3 decades , well SO HAVE I , and i was pulling leaves back when you werent even born yet , but thats because i didnt know any better , back then most growers believed what you believe today , BUT ,,,,, we have now and long ago been shown reasons and proof why to not believe what you believe

stop argueing , you have been given the proof you keep asking for , you just ignore it every time

peace
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