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  #21  
Old 10-31-2011, 08:30 PM
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Originally Posted by ganja man1 View Post
Certain scientists yes, other scientists no. So according to you, should I thank the inventor of abortions to ganja growing?

Peace
GM1
Greetings GM1,

Sorry, I don't get it? I hope it wasn't intended to be some sort of insult that doesn't make any sense. If it was, then you did a horrible job at trying to discredit what I'm saying.

I'm only implying that science has made it possible for us to be better indoor growers and without it we would only be growing outside when the seasons allow.

For example, if science proved that a certain atmospheric pressure was optimal for growing cannabis and increased a plants health, vigor, potency, yield, etc, and then created a "pressure monitor and adjuster" would you not utilize this equipment to better your grow?

Just like I utilize CO2 and carbon filters, I would also use a "pressure monitor and adjuster" to have ideal pressure in my grow. So what I'm saying is, without us talking about it and scientists researching it, we will never know if it is benificial or not. You said you want to better yourself as a grower, not as a scientist, but what you fail to understand is that it is the scientists that better us as growers.

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sativaXindica
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  #22  
Old 10-31-2011, 09:30 PM
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Greetings GM1,

No problem man, I'm not worked up. I didn't think my answer was cocky, but more so an accurate defense of science. I was just providing an explaination in layman terms. You can thank who ever you want, but in the end, it is the science that deserves your appreciation.

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sativaXindica
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  #23  
Old 10-31-2011, 09:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Chana Masala View Post
Hi C, hi GMT!

Why so hostile about borther C knowledges. He is just sharing what he feels is valid. Maybe if you get a second you can read his MangoHz thread. Imho, ground breaking thoughts are discovered there, moreover, dealing with coloured light filters and how he applies different filters to increase yield.



I disagree, light radiates off the surface of the earth, plants, stuctures, large bodies of freash and salt water, etc. Light has everything to do with atmospheric pressure. Weather or rain is based on the evaporation of water into the atmosphere which is controlled by temperature regulated by the amount of time the sun shines in diffrent regions of the world.

As to having a controlled environment, I thought that is what an good indoor grower does...

CM
first I'd just like to point out that I'm in no way knocking his growing skills. Just some of the "facts" stated in the thread.

An experiment you should run, take a plastic bottle, warm the air inside it and then put the cap on. Now put it somewhere a little cooler. Heating the air will expand it, it wont change the pressure within the bottle. However when you prevent that air from flowing freely, and then cool the bottle (and the air inside) it will contract, meaning that the pressure of the air inside the bottle will temporarily fall. The pressure outside of the bottle will then push on the outside of the bottle. The bottle will crumple until the volume of the bottle is reduced to that required to equalise the pressure of the air outside the bottle and that inside the bottle. Now picture how strong your tent will have to be to withstand this force on such a massive scale if trying to lower the pressure. That is the safe option. Now it imagine it in reverse. What do you imagine the opposite process is if you're trying to run higher pressure?

now as for light radiating from the earth. If you're talking about infrared radiation being released from the earth after the sun has transfered energy to its surface, then we can talk about how usefull that is to growing ie not at all, remember this is going on at night too, anyone ever seen the ground glowing?
Other than that, light comes to earth, not from it. And as for light travelling further depending on air pressure, this is just confused nonsense. Red light will bend to a greater degree in a moist air, but that is a whole different thing.
I'm happy to discuss science all day long, but hate pseudo science.
Rain is not based on the evaporation of water, it is possible to have very different humidity levels without rain falling, and it is possible to have rain in one place at a lower humidity level than exists in another place without rain falling. Whether or not the rain falls depends upon the air pressure present relative to the presence of clouds. Please tell me we're not now trying to create rain in the tent.
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  #24  
Old 10-31-2011, 11:01 PM
Chana Masala
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Originally Posted by GMT View Post
first I'd just like to point out that I'm in no way knocking his growing skills. Just some of the "facts" stated in the thread.
HI again GMT, I know you are not knocking him. You are a gentleman, so I am interested in learning something from this thread. I only wanted to state that if you followed his thread, you can see how his grow style and thought are evolving, and I am envious, at the rate it is happening.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GMT View Post
An experiment you should run, take a plastic bottle, warm the air inside it and then put the cap on. Now put it somewhere a little cooler. Heating the air will expand it, it wont change the pressure within the bottle. However when you prevent that air from flowing freely, and then cool the bottle (and the air inside) it will contract, meaning that the pressure of the air inside the bottle will temporarily fall. The pressure outside of the bottle will then push on the outside of the bottle. The bottle will crumple until the volume of the bottle is reduced to that required to equalise the pressure of the air outside the bottle and that inside the bottle. Now picture how strong your tent will have to be to withstand this force on such a massive scale if trying to lower the pressure. That is the safe option. Now it imagine it in reverse. What do you imagine the opposite process is if you're trying to run higher pressure?
I am thinking submarine or space ship. This thought of Mr. Cannatari is very valid for the new era of grower. If it is good enough for the navy or NASA, got to be something here for us i.e. aeroponics. Also the bottle thought is extreme for me. I do not think of affecting atmospheric pressure as 100% sealed at least in my application. I would just be more interested on the season of year, how the pressure affects my indoor environments and what I could do to increase potency, yield and overall quality with certain genetics. When would be optimal times for veg, bloom, take cutting, etc.

My mate just took some catus cuttings... they are not doing good. He took them a couple weeks ago. They had been grown in a sunny window. But the pressure has dropped from summer to fall. Needless to say the cutts are struggling and so is the mother. My friend who I got the catus from, always takes cutting and up poting in the spring.

But to be honest, I would love a 100% sealed environment to grow, wouldn't you? Press a button, sliding open into a clean room. Door closes and pressures clean room. Garden door opens to optimal pressurized environment. Practical for Nevils Haze, probably not, but there is something to be said.

You ever see the pictures of the Canadian grow bust in the "Molson Beer Factory". The growers were using the old copper beer vaults as growing chambers. It was stated as the most sophisticated op to ever get bust in Canada. The pictures sure looked like that was the case. 100% sealed and controlled and pressurized rooms.

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Originally Posted by GMT View Post
now as for light radiating from the earth. If you're talking about infrared radiation being released from the earth after the sun has transfered energy to its surface, then we can talk about how usefull that is to growing ie not at all, remember this is going on at night too, anyone ever seen the ground glowing?
I am talking about the sun controlling everything on earth and moon holding it all in place. Tides, seasonal changes, and gases being released into the atomphere vis a vis natural or man made actions play an impact on what C is trying to say.

I have seen the ground glow, it is called reflection, but moresoe on a thermal level, the planet is beaming with hot and cold spots. I have never been to space, but understand that from orbit when the sun is shining over the atlantic or pacific that the phrase "The Blue Planet" was coined. That is light my friend.

Also Northern lights is another response to your reply.


Quote:
Originally Posted by GMT View Post
Other than that, light comes to earth, not from it.
Again, man made or by reflection, I think light does come from earth. And a large percentage of that light is radiant and pressure related. That is also why the moon shines.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GMT View Post
And as for light travelling further depending on air pressure, this is just confused nonsense.
Disagree, why does light get less intense the further away from the main source. For example, the sea. Bright the first 8 to 10 feet, then pitch black unto the abyss. Rollin some dark clouds and its dark, but doesnet mean there is no uv or radiant energy coming through.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GMT View Post
Red light will bend to a greater degree in a moist air, but that is a whole different thing.
I dont think it is a whole different thing. C is claiming this is exactly what happens with barometric pressure and its relation to the region of the world one is in. So if one can find the correct colour specturm to help trigger better quality bud, in an indoor environment, why the hell not!

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Originally Posted by GMT View Post
I'm happy to discuss science all day long, but hate pseudo science.
It is all relevant in 2011. Just up to you how much you want to allow yourself to be open to another perspective.
Hey GMT, the world is flat... lol and I am sure you are not a scientist, so technically, learned scholars dont even consider our perspective.

But in all honest, canna boards in general are all psedo science. I have gotten into a few debats with the so called learened scientist with degrees and such, and for the most part, I have already grown more mary then they will in their career.

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Originally Posted by GMT View Post
Rain is not based on the evaporation of water,
Since when?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GMT View Post
it is possible to have very different humidity levels without rain falling, and it is possible to have rain in one place at a lower humidity level than exists in another place without rain falling. Whether or not the rain falls depends upon the air pressure present relative to the presence of clouds.
You ever hear of micro climates? DIdnt I say that brother GMT!?!?


Quote:
Originally Posted by GMT View Post
Please tell me we're not now trying to create rain in the tent.
Hahahah, funny man... well it wouldn't be the first time growers have tried!!! Again, maybe not rain, but tweaking to a certain frequency or sweet spot to trigger specific plant hormones or growth patterns to turn on is what I think we are trying to do... some use Co2, some use ac, some use large fans for negative pressure, some use fancy additives and nutrients, etc, etc. All relevant brother GMT!

I think it is relevant and cutting edge, at least for our community!!!

Thanks for the yarn.

Peace to you,

CM
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  #25  
Old 11-01-2011, 12:01 AM
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wow, I am amazed that the level of understanding of science is so low. Please please get some books. I'm not a teacher, I will discuss, but I'm not paid to continuously educate. But what I'm hearing horrifies me. No wonder religion has such a grip on people's minds when they have no clue how anything around them works.
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  #26  
Old 11-01-2011, 12:24 AM
Chana Masala
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Originally Posted by GMT View Post
wow, I am amazed that the level of understanding of science is so low. Please please get some books. I'm not a teacher, I will discuss, but I'm not paid to continuously educate. But what I'm hearing horrifies me. No wonder religion has such a grip on people's minds when they have no clue how anything around them works.
You talking to me?
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  #27  
Old 11-01-2011, 12:33 AM
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I do not think of affecting atmospheric pressure as 100% sealed at least in my application. I would just be more interested on the season of year, how the pressure affects my indoor environments and what I could do to increase potency, yield and overall quality with certain genetics. When would be optimal times for veg, bloom, take cutting, etc.
You guys are amazing your taking this site to levels not yet seen or even thort possible.

A grow room needs to mimic nature as best it can now you dont need to be a scientist to produce some of the worlds best cannabis from a grow space or do you need the most advanced grow groom to achieve it.

What you need is genetics as that and that alone will give you the quality of the end product and yield and the rest as thats all going to be determined by genetics found in the seed.

Grow method and skills also play a roll in the end result but all your doing is put simply is keeping the plant or plants happy and suppling all they need to thrive.

A grow space needs lite to mimic the sun an exhaust fan to remove the heat created by the lites and an intake to supply the room or space with fresh air and a fan to mimic wind as cannabis produces its own chemicals to help it rid and control pests.

If you guys wanted to be really smart you would set up a passive intake and as the exhaust exited the hot air from the space the vacuum created by the hot air leaving it would draw in fresh air at the same time.

Scientist did developed HPS and MH lites but it was not invented for growing but some one used them for growing and then at a later time specific bulbs were made for indoor growing or greenhouse supplement liteing as there was a market for them by then as more and more people started to use them.

Sativas have thin leaves because of the environment there found in and not the air pressure or the suns intensity by the way.

There leafs are thin and there branches and flower nodes are spreed and flowers are airy to take advantage of any air flow as there found in hot humid areas were it rains a lot also lots are found under jungle canapys were there only getting filted lite and yet they grow tall healthy and yield big.

Indicas have larger broader leaf mostly and are darker green almost black in some cases as they take advantage of any warmth they can and branches and flower nodes are much closer together again due to the colder temps and why they mold so much if grown in humid or wet areas.
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  #28  
Old 11-01-2011, 01:20 AM
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@ Hempy

You should know best Hempy.

As you stated about a million times you invented the hempy bucket. It was your single handed free thinking thought that created perlite in a pot. You got a lot of people telling you you are crazy, that doesn't work...

But when people saw the results of your bucket, you started a trend as you say!

What is the difference here. You got a good grower creating innovation through open discussion.

CM
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  #29  
Old 11-01-2011, 02:07 AM
hempy
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Originally Posted by Chana Masala View Post
@ Hempy

You should know best Hempy.

As you stated about a million times you invented the hempy bucket. It was your single handed free thinking thought that created perlite in a pot. You got a lot of people telling you you are crazy, that doesn't work...

But when people saw the results of your bucket, you started a trend as you say!

What is the difference here. You got a good grower creating innovation through open discussion.

CM
No you should no better mate in fact we all have A RESPONSIBILITY to the younger or less experience growers to keep the grow info correct and the reality is like it or not potency yield smell and more are genetic and as growers all we can hope for is to grow the plants best we can to allow the plant or plants to grow from seedling to harvest in the best conditions possible thats it its not rocket science is it.

As for me starting a grow method and trend as you call it well it is fact and reality like it or not 1000s and 1000s now use my method like i twisted any ones arm and told them use it or else get real here mate they use it because it is affective gives results and its simple not much more any one can hope for in a grow method is there.

No one is telling any one not to think out side the square but you guys are posting things that are not true and were talking basic stuff here.

Weather pasterns change conditions in a single day can very a great deal you guys do relies that right and as indoor growers what do we set out to achieve ?.

We set out to achieve out door grow conditions indoors we mimic nature you guys realize this right.

Even in a indoor grow space with controlled conditions it will change threw the day to from air pressure to moisture leaves in the air and so on do you really think that scientist that have access to million dollar grow rooms grow better cannabis than you or i no they dont its all about the genetics plain and simple.
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  #30  
Old 11-01-2011, 02:43 AM
hempy
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This paper begins with a brief review of the few reports on methods and results on growing plants at reduced air pressure. Then a new experimental set-up developed by the authors is described and discussed. This set-up permits growth of plants to a total height of 35 cm. Climatic conditions and gas pressures are carefully controlled and CO2-consumption is measured. Results with tomato plants by lowering air pressure to 400 and 700 hPa are reported and compared to plants maintained at 1000 hPa. These studies showed some growth reductions, morphological changes, and enhanced transpiration at 400 hPa.
ScienceDirect - Advances in Space Research : Gas exchange and growth of plants under reduced air pressure

Plants and Altitude Revisited
Plants and Altitude

Diffusion from surrounding air.
Water's the Matter-- Lesson Presentation: Dissolved Oxygen


Biometeorology

Biometeorology
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