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  #11  
Old 07-17-2008, 06:19 PM
barletta
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If that is true nut, than I figgure a 1000w cmh (doesn't exist for retail YET, just for #'s...) would gain 150 w in the color, and 50w in the heat dept. I really do like these bulbs... Just gettin ready to take the last live shots of orange mudd under the cmh...look out down below, lol.
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  #12  
Old 07-17-2008, 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by barletta View Post
There is a sticky over @ ic that I managed to catch ~ pg 4 or 5 (it's 118 pgs + now) It is in: Growers -> growroom des -> CMH Sticky. I understand that some folks over there are selling the things, but I got 1 from a 3rd party, and like I said, the differences are noticeable. What sealed the deal for me is that the plants that are positioned between the lights (cmh on 1 side, hps on the other) turn the fans, and tend to get larger toward the cmh. I have never flowered with a mh, but I like the hps to induce some stretch, and the cmh the rest of the way.
Hi again mate,

I ll go check the thread over Ic you mention barletta.

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I dunno how many lumens the bulb puts out, and from what I understand lumens are irrelevant to plants. They are a measure of the amount of light only in the wavelengths that the human eye can process.
Yes lumens are for measuring visible (to humans) light BUT weighted by a response curve the human eye has over the different areas of the spectrum.

''Measuring Light for Humans: Lumens and Lux

First, how do we measure light quantity for humans? The obvious way is based on how bright the source appears and how "well" the eye sees under the light. Since the human eye is particularly sensitive to yellow light, more weight is given to the yellow region of the spectrum and the contributions from blue and red light are largely discounted. This is the basis for rating the total amount of light emitted by a source in lumens.''

Quote:
and from what I understand lumens are irrellevant to plants.
Not irrelevant though.Because if you take 2 different brand hps lamps that both produce the exact same spectrum then the lumen per watt output will be a correct indicator to see which lamp produces more light.
Quote:
Much of the plant's energy is derived from light outside of what we can see (UV and far-red). While we can see ALL light from 500-550nm (and this light would register as 'lumens'), this light is useless (as far as we know, hence the green light = dark) to MJ. The bulb has a high PAR rating, which I believe to be more important.
Yes it is more important but only if you care about the photosynthetic proccess only . The PAR refer to the area spectrum of light that triggers /can be used by plants for photosynthesis.And is weighted by the Photosynthetic plant response curve.

http://www.sunmastergrowlamps.com/Im...esponse_01.jpg

PAR doesn't take into account other areas of spectrum that the plant still uses but just not for photosynthesis.

A 1000w MH can have higher PAR rating than an HPS again 1000w....but we all know for a fact that HPS will give more bud...

So PAR would be more useful if you look to buy a lamp for vegging. Cannabis flower production response curve is different to the photosynthetic process response curve. And that explains why you get more bud with HPS and not MH , and in veg why you get more leaf growth with MH that have higher PAR Watt rating..

Lumens now happen to give a better indication/representation of the total yield output at least when we compare MH and HPS (in flowering).
HPS = gives more lumens than MH = and it gives more yield(fact).

This happens because the Flowering responce curve is more similar to the human eye responce curve (Lumens) , and less similar to the Photosynthetic response curve. The yellow color promotes flowering.

''The output of a 400 watt incandescent bulb is about 25 watts of light, a 400 watt metal halide bulb emits about 140 watts of light. If PAR is considered to correspond more or less to the visible region, then a 400 watt metal halide lamp provides about 140 watts ofPAR. A 400 watt HPS lamps has less PAR, typically 120 to 128 watts, but because the light is yellow it is rated at higher lumens (for the human eye).''

''Only part of solar radiation is used by plants for photosynthesis. This active radiation Photo synthetically Active Radiation (PAR) contains the wavelengths between 400 and 700 nanometers and falls just within the visible spectrum (380 - 770nm). The light in this region is called PAR watts when measuring the total amount of energy emitted per second. PAR watts directly indicates how much light energy is available for plants to use in photosynthesis. ''

So one problem when using PAR watts as an indicator to chose the best lamp, is that PAR doesn't include UV light or IR light. And plants do use radiation from areas that are out of the PAR spectrum , and this radiation is equally important as it affects how the plant grows, yields and how the end product smokes.

Quote:
If you like, there is a lumen/price post on this page. http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=72215&page=3 Check post 42.
Thanx for the link , I just checked the post . It seems CMH (400w) has lower lumen output that HPS at same wattage rating. CMH = 30-35.000 Lumens/Watt while HPS give around 50-55.000 Lumens/watt.

Like I said earlier lummens still dont prove much though.. Cause like in the case of MH vs HPS , during veg you can get more mass/tissue production with MH even though they give less lumens per watt.

Do you know what PAR rating the CMH have??

What you say about leaves turning to the CMH , I see your point but that doesn't tell me much.Things are simple . If you run a side by side test , flower one garden with CMH only and the other with HPS only , which garden will yield more?

Will there be any differences in the potency/high?

I would like to see side by side tests and hear the conclusions ..I m interested in trying CMH, but like I said I d like some more solid proof before doing so.
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Last edited by L33t; 07-17-2008 at 07:07 PM.
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  #13  
Old 07-17-2008, 08:07 PM
barletta
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What do you have to lose trying a CMH? $50? I have seen only positive reports about them, with the occasional "I didn't notice any difference at all..". I didn't really look at any of those lumen #'s before I bought the bulb. I looked at the pic of the guy holding the bulb in hid fingers while it is on and 'hot', and I listened to the people that made the switch. Look at the % of available energy produced in the spectral charts I posted. That chart, the pix with no white balance adj, and the reviews of the people that had em were enough for me to get 1, and the performance is enough for me to rave about them.

I am convinced.

As far as potency goes, people throw up and spontaneously fall asleep from smokin my weed, and I can smoke all day and still get high so it's not a problem for me. I have grown buds under flouros (2700k envirolights) hps and cmh, and I think that the difference in potency is so minuscule, that it is not worth mentioning. The sun is no joke, lol.

WHOO-HOO STARTED RAINING!!!!

Do a lil dance....

EDIT - I can't do a 2 garden side by side, as I run a half assed perpetual sog, but a side-by-side would be VERY strain dependent imo. Stretch, and subsequent distance from the light/cola length would be the deciding players.

Hey, it stopped raining.....who's not dancing?!?!?

Last edited by barletta; 07-17-2008 at 08:12 PM.
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  #14  
Old 07-17-2008, 09:37 PM
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i think cfl will beat hps and mh and i intend to give it a go side by side in my 2x600 watt room. i will use 5x125 watt enviro lights one side a 600 watt the other side of the cfl





i think there will be a better spread of light over the whole 1x1 square area with 5 x 125 lights and getting that down to with in 3" of the canopy will more than make up for the 600w.

watch this space

Last edited by Mr green; 07-17-2008 at 09:39 PM.
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  #15  
Old 07-17-2008, 09:47 PM
barletta
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Awesome nut.

I'll take bets @ the hps +60% of cfl. I bet the cfl side finishes faster. Mine seemed to, but no side by side.

You should start a thread somewhere so that people can find it in the future.

Here's a peek @ my 2 x 125's. Vert, baby.
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  #16  
Old 07-17-2008, 09:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barletta View Post
Awesome nut.

I'll take bets @ the hps +60% of cfl. I bet the cfl side finishes faster. Mine seemed to, but no side by side.

You should start a thread somewhere so that people can find it in the future.

Here's a peek @ my 2 x 125's. Vert, baby.
you should use a reflector and hang the lights horizontal unless you use a
parabolic reflector then hang them like you do now. look at this i know its in French, but look at the bottom and see the results the bloke get from using cfl and the reflectors he uses> http://www.cannaweed.com/forum/sujet...e-ecolite.html

he gets up to 1.5gpw most iv hit from a hps was 1.25gpw. i cant do it in 2 different rooms it would be to much work, but we should have some idea what is best once i cut it down and throw it on a set of scales

p.s
thanks for the peek of the cfl grow

Last edited by Mr green; 07-17-2008 at 09:59 PM.
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  #17  
Old 07-17-2008, 11:33 PM
barletta
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Yeah, I would have had to get fancy, that 'room' was ~18" x 22" x ~30". That was my first room, and I had ~6 in flower @ any 1 time. My best bet was to grow single colas, and 'wrap' each bulb with em. I had 3 x 42w cfl's in clip on shop lights with the freebie cheapo refelctor for veg on the floor above that room. Having a heated floor is THE SHIT for clones and seedlings... I miss that lil space...
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  #18  
Old 07-20-2008, 04:34 PM
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It looks like until the price comes down, these lights will be for the commercial guys.

I like the technology. Much lower heat and better spectrum. I'm not sure why it''s so expensive. Microwave transmitter technology is very old stuff. Quatrz tubes are old tech too. I wonder what makes it so expensive other than it's "new" and not in wide use yet. Sorta like cell phones were early on.
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  #19  
Old 07-20-2008, 05:33 PM
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give it 10 years from now and i think you will be seeing them over taking normal HPS street lights and you will be hard pushed to find an HPS in a grow shop. i think HPS and MH will be obsolete for growing with in 5-10 years.

my 1st ever 400 watt HPS i bought, in todays money i could buy 5-6 / 600 watt lamps for the price i payed for the 400 back then.

Last edited by Mr green; 07-20-2008 at 05:43 PM.
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  #20  
Old 07-20-2008, 06:00 PM
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Nut, great idea about the comparitson. Just make sure you seperate the grow areas from each other so you don't have light overlap, as that would kinda spoil the test

Be safe

A
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