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  #11  
Old 03-06-2010, 03:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Greens View Post
well, after having a read and digesting all this fine information i decided to combine HPS and MH In a double cool tube. Its impossible to judge the results with any real accuracy because any number of factors may have had an effect, not least of which would be the increase in over all light. However, there has definately been a significant resin increase, and a general improvement of all the plants appearance. After around a week, my older CM got very, very resinous, to the point that squeezing the buds left the fingertips feeling more wet than sticky.

I dont want to make any bold claims, because for all i know it was going to do that anyway, but i have to say i am very happy with the results. Im all exicted now
Good for you man, hope you get some resin crusted monsters!
I know allot of ppl say its overkill but I'd mix spectrums in a heartbeat if I had the amprage.
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  #12  
Old 03-06-2010, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by L33t View Post
The calyx to leaf ratio in indoor HPS grown plants is higher that outdoors and it is due to the light spectrum , outdoor natural lighting is more like MH+HPS (and with a high MH to HPS ratio) than straight HPS lighting. Adding MH lights will also help with terpen production and may give a more deep/complex effect to the high , this is especially true for certain sativa strains.

Oldtimer1 had done some very experiments few years ago and posted the progress and results over uk420 , the test was growing several known clones under HPS-only , HPS+MH and MH-only lighting .
The results showed that although there was a decrease in yields when MH was added or MH light was used exclusively, the benefits in resin production and increased quality in the high were worth it. Not all strains seem to benefit the same and in terms of high the pure sativas showed the most improvement with MH-only light , indicas and hybrids showing little or no improvement.
I agree for SUN spectrum and its more like MH+HPS but sun specturm isnt same in every month in the year, good for us.
Im not sure how it decrease yield ?
Any HPS bud are much more compact than SUN bud, cause light spectrum ofc.
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  #13  
Old 03-06-2010, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by BlizzOut View Post
I agree for SUN spectrum and its more like MH+HPS but sun specturm isnt same in every month in the year, good for us.
Well , the sun spectrum change over time depends on how far you are from the equator so it depends where you live . At the equator the spectrum does not really change as its always 12/12. So the closer the less change while in areas that are far north/south the changes will be greater.

Quote:
Im not sure how it decrease yield ?
The MH lighting produces less bud than MH+HPS and best yields are from HPS only lighting. This is why most growers use HPS only.HPS spectrum seems to be more efficient when it comes to high yield bud production.

Outdoors the buds are of different structure as well as appearance but still the differences are not that great , esp quality wise if both the indoor and outdoor plants are grown well.

Quote:
Any HPS bud are much more compact than SUN bud, cause light spectrum ofc.
I don't really agree that HPS bud are always more compact than Sun grown bud, I mean it really depends on what strain , hps wattage and outdoor location you compare. For instance UK grown outdoor bud will be less compact than high wattage-HPS indoor grown bud. A plant grown at the tropics can be more compact that if grown indoors under HPS .

Outdoor bud is generally leafier than HPS grown bud and MH gives leafier bud compared to HPS.
So considering the above in a sense HPS grown bud is more compact (higher calyx to leaf ration) than sungrown bud but I wouldn't really say that its due to the sunlight spectrum, I think that would be due to outdoor plants usually being planted straight into the soil and they are bigger n more stretchy cause they have unlimited rootspace , compared to potted plants. Outdoor potted plants are usually as compact as indoor grown plants.
As sunlight does not lose its intensity over distance the lower parts of the plants are usually less stretchy compared to indoor plants where usually the lower branches/buds are not as compact due to low light levels and constantly being in the shade.
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  #14  
Old 03-06-2010, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by L33t View Post
Well , the sun spectrum change over time depends on how far you are from the equator so it depends where you live . At the equator the spectrum does not really change as its always 12/12. So the closer the less change while in areas that are far north/south the changes will be greater.
At equator sun angle is straight and there is more lumens than at any other LAT on the earth.
In same time angle by which sun rays falling on the ground is responsible for light intensity and light color.
Changing sun angle we got 4 season per year, cause light intensty/heat is not same.At some parts on the earth sun angle is almost same so difference in seasons is very small.

Quote:
Originally Posted by L33t View Post
Outdoors the buds are of different structure as well as appearance but still the differences are not that great , esp quality wise if both the indoor and outdoor plants are grown well.

I don't really agree that HPS bud are always more compact than Sun grown bud, I mean it really depends on what strain , hps wattage and outdoor location you compare. For instance UK grown outdoor bud will be less compact than high wattage-HPS indoor grown bud. A plant grown at the tropics can be more compact that if grown indoors under HPS .
I thought at same strain just IN-OUT side.
I disagree about quality INdoor - OUTdoor buds, but not totally cause area where it is grown outside.
Buds quality isnt same grown in Holland or south of Italy exactly cause spectrum, growing period and light intensity.
But yes same strain is always more compact indoor than growth outdoor no matter in which area on the planet... cause more blue light from sun what hps do not have or do but its statistic mistake comparing with sun blue spectrum.

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Originally Posted by L33t View Post
Outdoor bud is generally leafier than HPS grown bud and MH gives leafier bud compared to HPS.
So considering the above in a sense HPS grown bud is more compact (higher calyx to leaf ration) than sungrown bud but I wouldn't really say that its due to the sunlight spectrum, I think that would be due to outdoor plants usually being planted straight into the soil and they are bigger n more stretchy cause they have unlimited rootspace , compared to potted plants. Outdoor potted plants are usually as compact as indoor grown plants.
As sunlight does not lose its intensity over distance the lower parts of the plants are usually less stretchy compared to indoor plants where usually the lower branches/buds are not as compact due to low light levels and constantly being in the shade.
Roots space is limited outside but just at deep not wide, cause roots goes (dep. of area) about 1m deep and wide of couple meters.
I must say to lower outdoor branches are also stretchy, probably cause plant doesnt goes so deep than wide.So it made plant body structure usually bushier / if there is enough light ... not wood grow or ...
What I see is to outdoor plants have biggest buds than indoor one but its not so compact like indoor buds, probably cause spectrum...but there is so much different grow conditions to say its only cause light spectrum or roots or ...
Probably difference in quality in-out buds exist but I believe its up to area where its grown.
From same strain, outdoor buds are not in same quality from Holland VS Italy/Spain.
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  #15  
Old 03-06-2010, 03:29 PM
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Hey BlizzOut

You are right about digging big wide holes and keeping the holes kinda 'shallow'. From experiments it seems outdoors it isn't worth it to even go at 1meter depth, 50-60cm deep is more than enough if you dig really wide holes. Upper layers of soil are better for root growth as there is better aeration as well and its better to have your roots grow there.

I agree that buds from Holland compared to bud from southern countries will be inferior due to less light , the better the climate the better the results. Btw strains like equatorial/tropical sativas seem to benefit more by strong light as they originate from areas with intense light.
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  #16  
Old 03-06-2010, 04:09 PM
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Exactly, mate.
Beside where I read "study" of Mr.J.C. how roots can go deeper than 2m () here is what science says about it.
Quote:
The soil as what it is today, is a result of many factors coming together: climate, parent material, local topography, vegetation, living organisms and, of course, time. All of the factors can be involved in various degrees, which is why there are many thousands of soil types. The solid bulk of soil consists of minerals and organic matter. In between the solid particles are pore spaces, which are filled with varying amounts of air and water. The pore sizes and how they are connected within the soil bulk, determine the quality of soil aeration. Aeration refers to how water and air are held within a soil sample.

In looking closer at soils, it is important to understand that there are general regions or horizons of soil development that are usually obvious in an undisturbed area. For example, if we found an undisturbed area, and dug down 3 to 6 feet (1 or 2 meters), we would likely find a soil profile (cross section of the horizons) of three integrated horizons. The composition and stage of development will obviously vary widely depending on where the soil profile is taken. The top horizon is called the A horizon or topsoil. This horizon is usually 4 to 8 inches on average, again depending on where your sample is from. The A horizon is further subdivided into a darker upper portion, called the A1 horizon and a lighter lower portion A2 horizon. The A1 horizon contains the majority of the organic material out of the three integrated horizons. The next horizon is the B horizon, or the subsoil. This is usually 1 or 2 feet deep on average. The subsoil usually contains more clay, so less pore spaces, and is lighter in color than the topsoil. The lowest horizon is called the C horizon and it could be 4 inches to 10 feet deep or it may not be present. The C horizon is called the soil parent material and it extends down to bedrock.

A1—darker upper portion of topsoil

A2—lighter lower portion of topsoil

B—subsoil

C—soil parent material

Bedrock
Plants normally forming root system wide cause at deep is nothing woth of minerals what they can use + its clay and no air.


L33t, I believe light intensity and natural eviroment is why some growers made hermies of Mostly Sativa genetics.
They do not have enough lght in the room and whola ... its hermie.
These plants want more intense light but unfortunately they got just couple CFL bulbs, if couple at all.
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  #17  
Old 03-07-2010, 09:50 AM
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thanks for the input BlizzOut

With the addition of some new soil and perlite one can make the deeper layers of soil more productive. A nice way to maximize yields outdoors is to go with elevated beds , this ways all the soil mix is better aerated. Tom Hill has some nice examples of huge yields in such elevated beds which are really wide. He uses a cloth-type material perimetrically to keep the soil in place and so air can reach all the soil layers better from the side walls as well.

I dont really know if low light levels can cause hermies , maybe it depends on how low light levels we talk about..people like hempy who grow with under 40w/sqft have not reported any probs with hermies.Its is possible to finish a sat dominant plant or even pure sativa with cfls but the results are not worth the wait in my opinion. I would use at least 250w for such plants.
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  #18  
Old 03-07-2010, 05:45 PM
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Is it true that plants can detect each other when red spectrum is present i think it brings out the competativeness in the plants. Metal halide takes the plants thc content to it`s maximum potential.
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  #19  
Old 03-07-2010, 08:48 PM
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Tom Hill are great grower but that is not magic.
It's about roots and constant feeding with low EC ... but constant feeding is a key.
Cloth is just part of story....because cloth, soil lose more water than from canister, so how to keep soil moist if not with constant watering/feeding ?
His team doing great job and they are rewarded !

Dont know mate, maybe Im wrong but reading some post and they amount of light it sounds to me like light leak.
You mention losing light intensity by distance so just 100 or 200 or 600 Watts per 1m2 is not enough cause distance play big big role in growing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GUANOIZDASHIZNIT View Post
Is it true that plants can detect each other when red spectrum is present i think it brings out the competativeness in the plants. Metal halide takes the plants thc content to it`s maximum potential.
I believe its Yes, but there is a lot of questions without no answer starting why plants are green ... believe or not its 2010 and no answer yet.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...1014144734.htm
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  #20  
Old 03-08-2010, 10:41 PM
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Reading this is making me wonder,

I have been having trouble with my CM seedlings late stage flower throwing quita a few seeds. I'm noticing the seeds only in the last 3- 4 weeks, (all seed plants, no cuttings) I have kept a really close eye for hermies, and I cant find any male flowers. Could be a very very small amount of light getting in but not much. I had a heater in there first couple weeks with a little light from the digital display (very little light) but Ive used this many times (other strains) and not seeded. Could it be that going from a 600 MH (conversion bulb) to 1000 w hps (2) all at once is too much stess for the young'ns and is starting the seeding? I dont know, getting not tons of seeds but enough, any Ideas? I am perplexed, and about to run first set of clones. Could it be there is some pollen in there and I just cant find any nanners? I am not experienced with hermies at all.

FX,

(prev, JP)

Last edited by felix; 03-08-2010 at 10:57 PM.
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