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  #1  
Old 12-01-2015, 10:21 PM
Broseidon's Avatar
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Default Broseidon's Corner - Let's bro this

UPDATE/SUMMARY end of July 2016
Hi Bros and Brodetts,

this thread is currently quite a mess as I haven't updated jack shit in months.
At the current end of the thread you will find the current situation and progress but the start and first pages have become a little bit moot over time as I changed my concepts many times over.
Did update the executive update/summary right here in the first post.
Will update more as I go along at some point or maybe this thread will simply expire as I move the logs to the appropriate strain forums.
Stay tuned



Executive UPDATE/SUMMARY

For all you Bros and Brodettes who don't feel like reading an entire book's worth of musings of a grower that hasn't shown anything yet, here is a summary of where I am with each of the topics I talk about in exhausting detail throughout this thread and what my current main questions are for each topic:

Genetics
1st run: Shit; MKxSkunk; G13xSkunk; Critical Mass; NLxSkunk; C99

The Location, chambers, setup
- Veg chamber: 160x120x200 400W MH, some 6 T5s (2x2x2) in a 3 level rack system for seedlings, clones and mums. 750m fan and filter combo

The Cycles
Currently dialing everything in/getting my feet back under, not sure what the cycles will be like yet.

The Secret Room
I have nearly finished hiding the room proper. There will be no pictures of it so this might be quite a boring part of this corner and I might not give any further updates. Basically there is a wall that looks inconspicuous but hides a door from plain sight. There is another wall that hides the exhaust lines from the vents from plain sight.

The Medium
Organic soil and well-water (only other additives: Bio Rhizotonic, Bio Boost, Neem).
PM me for info on the soil recipe if interested. But it is nothing special, yet works great so far. Will see if it holds up during flower.


The harvests
For the first run at least, I will use the classic hang-drying into jar burping method. In future runs I want to use the freezer cure method but have yet to procure a no-frost freezer as I doubt I will be allowed to use the one in the kitchen



/Edit
I feel it is time to mention that this thread is UNDER CONSTRUCTION
Feel free to comment/share/ask away any time you want but I will finish up the last couple of entries, then edit/correct/compact everything and here, in the first post, make a list of my current questions for the community.


Hello fellow bros and brodetts!

I am Broseidon and this is my corner. CLAIMED

This is going to be a diary of sorts, laying out my path from opportunity presenting itself to careful planning and research, to execution and harvests (yes, plural ).

Any questions I have for the community I will type out in bold!

And would greatly, greatly, greatly appreciate your input!
As soon as I am in a position to do so, I WILL give back and share what I learned. I believe that nothing stunts the growth and development of humanity more than people hoarding knowledge and not sharing idiologies, concepts, wisdom.... All for the love of money... yiak


Anyway, back to topic.

I am not a total newbie but not an experienced grower either. I have never worked with mothers and clones for example and consequently never done any breeding, which is a major goal of my upcoming project.
My last growing experience lies more than 10 years in the past.
An opportunity presented itself in the form of a house I can call my own.
And that house has a great basement. Ceilings could be a little higher but otherwise its great.

From the opportunity presenting itself, a project and plan has formed in my head which I supplemented with copious amounts of reading and research.

Which eventually led me here.

I hope now that with your experience, help and feedback, I can soon leave the planning and research stages (in which I currently find myself) and move on to execution.


In the following posts I will lay out how I am currently planning to go about things and ask you guys and gals for oppinions, feedback or straight up suggestions/support.

The topics will be divided as follows:
- The Goal
- The Genetics
- The Location (incl. chambers and basic setup)
- The Cycles (timing, plant numbers, rotations...)
- The Secret Room and Ventilation
- The Medium (incl. water and nutes)
- The Harvest


Quick disclaimer at the end of my first entry:
I won't post pictures of the location, setup or equipment for security concerns.
You will have to make due with my lengthy (but hopefully colorful) descriptions and use the cinema in your head.

Once I am operational, I do however plan to post pictures of plants and plants only.

Hope you can all understand and hope that my writing style is not too exhausting!

I also hope that I can get at least some of you excited and interested in my project.

Stay frosty my friends!

Last edited by Broseidon; 07-28-2016 at 09:02 AM.
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  #2  
Old 12-01-2015, 10:46 PM
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Default The Goal

Every project needs to start with a goal. It is my firm believe that the most knowledge, wisdom, experience, etc. can all go to waste if one is not aware what goal one is working towards.
You need that beacon in the dark when it gets all foggy and cloudy.
That point you can go back to and say "yo, that shit doesn't really matter that much, THIS IS MY GOAL and THIS IS WHAT I NEED".


So without further ado:

The Goal

The goal of this project will be to provide supreme herb for myself and the missus but mainly myself.

Quality over Quantity!! will always be my motto during this project!

I am actually concerned with "over-producing" somewhat...

Anyway, the second goal is that I want to try my hand in breeding and creating "my own strain" so to speak.
This is also why "The Genetics" will be my next entry in this thread/diary and come before things such as the location.
I have characteristics in mind and have more or less clearly defined what I want to create. More on that in "The Genetics".

The breeding and my cycles will be heavily inspired by "the sultan method" found here in the forum.

The plan is to run 20-40 seeds of Strain A, grow them from seed to maturity, while already beginning selection, culling any sickly or "bad" plants but giving "mutants" an honest shot at making it to the flowering stage (I believe that mutants can turn out better than expected if given a chance).
Once mature enough, take 2-4 backup clones of each plant. Wait for the clones to be rooted and proven to be healthy (at least 2 per plant will have to make it through).

At this point I would send the original seed-plants into flowering and keep their clones as backups.

Once the seedplants are sent into flowering (or a few weeks into it, I will have to either get feedback on the timing or just figure it out myself and test, it is all environment and strain and phenotype specific anyway but rough estimates would help), I will germinate another 20-40 seeds of Strain B.

The same procedure as with Strain A will take place.
The males among the flowering seedplants of Strain A will be culled once they show sex but not before making a decision on which males to keep for future breeding (Is it advisable to flower males out to make this decision? I heard of smoking the leaves and the sultan method also suggests it.. If so, I will have a separate area to flower males or use isolation chambers as seen on ICmag. Male selection still puzzles me...).
Hopefully, by the time the backup clones of Strain B have rooted, the seedplants of Strain A will be ready or close to harvest. If not, I will work on my timing.

Once Strain A is harvested, dried, cured and ready for testing, the seedplants of Strain B will go into flowering while simultaniously/soon after, 20-40 seeds of Strain C are germinated etc.

In the meantime, Strain A is tested and selections are made.
Strain A will be culled from the rotation safe for 1-3 female and 1-2 male backup clones, which will be made into mothers and fathers (and 1-2 backup clones of each, kept in the cycle again).

To clarify:
I say 1-3 females and 1-2 males because I assume I will sometimes end up with more than 1 phenotype (for each sex) that will stand above the rest. In these cases I will keep more than 1 mother/father per strain.


The mothers and fathers will be kept as bonzai plants in small 1 gallon smart pots (root puches) with 1-2 backup clones of each always being available if they run into trouble.

The goal is to do this for 4-6 strains until I have at least 1 keeper mum and dad for each of those strains.

I estimate 1, 1 1/2 maybe 2 years to reach this point, depending on how smooth everything goes.

Once I reach this point, breeding will commence. Which methods I plan to use for pollination etc. etc. is probably not important at this point in time and we will get to that later on in the future.

For now, let's KISS (keep it stupid&simple).

So off to genetics we go!
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  #3  
Old 12-01-2015, 11:46 PM
Broseidon's Avatar
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Default The Genetics

No doubt one of the deciding factors in the production of quality herb is genetic stock...
A seed can produce a decent harvest of quality medicine under the worst condition.
Another seed will produce a questionable result no matter how royally you treat it...

Genetics are the first building block and where it all starts, imho.


The Genetics

Again, let's talk about my goal to begin with.
I have lived in the Netherlands for years and have had regular access to good quality herb in the past. However, it is still commercial strains that were mostly available.

I am looking for "connoisseur" (cannasseur hue hue, sure I'm the first to make that joke) genetics...

I want to smoke some Blueberry and Bubblegum damnit! Never got that in the Netherlands.. I had what feels like a million varieties of commercial white widow, I smoked the hazes, the diesels, the jacks, etc. etc.

But never had that taste, flavor, aroma explosion that people describe when they talk about strains such as Blueberry and Bubblegum...

So what was my goal again?

Right, breeding my own strain.

The characteristics I had in mind are:
- Strong and undeniable smell and taste of fruit/bubblegum, sweetness
- Potency/quality with strongly Sativa leaning effects (euphoria, anti-depression, creativity, "active/cerebral")
- If at all possible, I would like my weed to be colorful. Either so frosty it appears white (like white widow of old) or obviously purple/red/orange



With this in mind, I started on my quest.
My favorite strain ever, so far, was AK 47.
I had never grown it from Serious Seeds but back then, the AK 48 version of Nirvana was actually still called AK 47 and was a straight up F2 of the original AK 47 from Serious. Nirvana used to do this with a lot of strains back then. Later on it was changed to AK 48 and afaik has nothing to do with Serious' AK 47 anymore.

However.... apparently neither does Serious Seeds ...
I remember when I stopped growing more than 10 years ago, I had first heard rumors and later on read it from the horse's mouth itself: Sam had lost this or that parent from the "original" Ak 47 and decided to use his "Chronik" as a replacement. Assuring everyone that it made the plant even better...
I remember thinking "That dude just ruined one of the best strains ever, wtf..." and then I stopped following "the scene".

When I first started my research, I had an AK 47 x Blueberry cross in mind and was close to simply ordering Moscowberry (AK 47 x Blueberry) from Kalashnikov Seeds out of Russia and just grow that, when I decided to just breed myself.

Long story short, reports are conflicting but I came to the conclusion that Serious Seeds along with many others are not the seedbanks they used to be and definitely not worth the price they are charging per seed anymore.
I was willing to cough up 70-80 bucks for the Serious AK 47 this time. But I am not willing to cough that up for some "chronified" version that sooooo many people report has very little in common with the original AK 47 that won all those cups and whos F2 inbreed I was lucky to grow and enjoy way back when...

This made me very sad, especially since Serious Seeds also has supposedly one of the "best" Bubblegum genetics around. But again I read so many reports talking about degradation in the genetics etc. etc.

I am just not convinced of Serious Seeds as breeders anymore. I read most of their articles in their ICmag section as well... They just don't convince me anymore, I don't trust them. I certainly don't trust them 80€ for 11 seeds worth....


So, with a heavy heart I crossed Serious off my list...
In the meantime I had sort of set my mind on Spice of Life Blue Satellite 2.2 but found out they were rapidly going out of stock everywhere, because apparently they were 15 year old seeds... So another one off my list, with a heavy heart...


So off I went to search for good Blueberry genetics!

I believe I found them!
Again, I wasn't going to cough up 110EUR for 10 of DJ Short's Blueberry seeds (even if I could find them...). But I also didn't want to grow Nirvana stuff again.
I am sure Nirvana seeds are fine. I have personal experience with them and can't complain.

But I am also convinced that the "right" genetics are worth paying a little more.

Over on ICmag I was steered towards peakseedsbc out of canada.

And I am basically set on ordering from them, unless someone here has some serious arguments against peakseedsbc?

Peakseeds caught my eye because they have a very small catalogue and seem to specialize on a small selection of more or less "old school" but top notch genetics. Their Blueberry seems to be a mix of Sagamarthas, DJ's and Dutch Passions. Grow reports I read, the pictures I saw and what Mike from peakseeds told me convinced me that this is my Blueberry.

Along with the Blueberry, I was planning to order their Sweet Skunk and Cinderella 99. Both supposedly descendants from Brother's Grimm genetics.

Both of these strains seem to fit great alongside the Blueberry for what I want to achieve and should be great on their own as well.
To top it all off, Mike made me "an offer I couldn't refuse" (less than 4EUR per seed).

I haven't ordered yet and haven't grown his gear but up to this point, I can't praise peakseeds enough (I had contact with other seed vendors and seed banks and none had quite the level of peakseeds in terms of swiftness to respond, friendliness, apparent knowledgefulness and business savyy).


So with that order in place, I feel like I have a great baseline for my project and 3 of 6 strains off the list!

Next up, I was looking for the best Bubblegum genetics since Serious seeds was off the table...

Again, over at ICmag, I was steered towards BOG (bushy old grower).
I am convinced that his gear is one of the best sources when looking for Bubblegum flavors and aromas. Also price-wise, when ordering from him directly via email, I can get in the area of around 5EUR/seed which is very desirable for me because I want to work with "larger" (for my circumstances) numbers to be able to go pheno hunting and making proper selections.
Problem is, he won't ship to Europe.
I am currently looking for a work-around with a friend in the US or Canada receiving the seeds from BOG and forwarding them to me in Europe. If that is possible, I might go with either BOG Bubble, Bogglegum or Sour Bubble as my 4th strain. Getting 20-40 seeds of it.

If it is not possible for me to get BOG's gear for a reasonable price, I was currently planning to purchase White Label's Double-Gum, as it is supposedly what BOG used to create his entire Bubblegum lineup. So the genetics are in there but I might have a lot of selective breeding ahead of me and would love to take the shortcut through BOG.

Or do you have any other suggestion for great Bubblegum genetics?

Again, flavor, aroma and potency being the markers. I don't care much for yield. Yield is a cherry on top for me.



So either way, 4 of the max 6 strains I plan to run for my innitial selection are taken.

For the remaining 2 strains I was thinking about genetics from MNS to give my future crosses an influx of "all that is desirable in cannabis" in case I loose too many of such traits while hunting for flavor and aroma.

I only recently started thinking about the last 2 strains for my baseline and only days ago discovered the auctions and realized that I could get MNS in the 5EUR or less/seed area. This put MNS back on the map for me.
I want to run at least 20-40 seeds per strain and might have to buy more if I can't find what I am looking for but am convinced the phenotype is in there...
Going over 5EUR/seed with that scale in mind is just getting too pricey for me.

But with the auctions available... hell yeah I wanna run MNS genetics!

I am open for suggestions as to which strains should cross well with my planned lineup of Blueberry, Sweet Skunk, C99 and Bubblegum.
Was currently thinking Black Widow and Mango Haze but confess I haven't given it enough thought and research yet due to only thinking about it a couple of days so far.


So this is it for genetics, for now...

Check Broseidon's Corner again tomorrow, when I will talk about The Location!
- grow tents (multiple chambers)
- a secret room (oooooh )
- ventilation
etc.

For anyone who didn't fall asleep reading this and actually made it to the end: Bro... I am sure we will be Bros

Stay frosty my friends!

Broseidon out

Last edited by Broseidon; 12-02-2015 at 03:27 PM.
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  #4  
Old 12-02-2015, 01:13 AM
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Default i like your trident

hello

males are chosen in retorspect looking at the offspring of the cross, this is the only proper way.

a seed is the embryo of the plant, that is it's purpose, there is no right or wrong seed, environment is VITALLY important.

two people can smoke blueberry, one may taste juicyberry, the other may taste asshole.

some plants have pigment, others don't it's not about defense, it's about genetics, also remember that things like colour are not important.

green plants are not more potent then purple plants, the rest of paragraph also incorrect.

------------------------

you may want to consider skunk / "shit" if you want a smelly terpene profile, it's not as simple as mixing say food flavouring, theres trade-offs and unawares.

pakistan chitral would be a safe choice for colour also potentially berry aromas.

i would like to try nordle x blueberry, although that would be heavy indica dom.

--------------------

remember to check your law about plant numbers etc, where i am, a rooted clone is considered the same as a Sequoia sempervirens,

hope of some help,

regards,
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  #5  
Old 12-02-2015, 04:05 PM
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Hey Bro,

nice feedback, thanx!

I went ahead and changed some of the wording in the starting paragraph. You are correct, "right" and "wrong" was just a poor choice of words by me there.

About the purple... Huh, I was quite sure I had gotten that right! Read/heard that from so many sources...
Well... in the immortal words of Linkin Park:
In the end, it doesn't even matter

Since I want purple/color anyway, so I will just check it out myself
Obviously would be very happy if I could create a colorful strain with all the other characteristics I am looking for.



Quote:
Originally Posted by MASTERBOSSGROWER View Post
males are chosen in retorspect looking at the offspring of the cross, this is the only proper way.
Bummer...
I have read conflicting infos on this but I actually came to the same conclusion as you.
The only way to have a truly representative/scientifically valid result is to grow out the progeny and test it by sampling.

However:
We obviously would look at how the plant develops, its vigor, its growth pattern, its resistance to stress, plagues, etc.
Granted, all that might say shit all (sry Simone) about quality. Meaning a poorly growing plant which reacts sensitively to stress and attracts pests like a magnet might still grow killer bud under the right conditions...
But it is better than making no selection at all and with enough time and patience, a plant should emerge, that has all the traits and on top of that the flavors and effects etc. ...


I guess I will just let the force flow through me and trust my "instincts" here. I might try out smoking leafs of very resinous males, let's see.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MASTERBOSSGROWER View Post
two people can smoke blueberry, one may taste juicyberry, the other may taste asshole.
True, but that is why I want to select from Blueberry etc. for myself, to find the one that tastes like Blueberry to me. Hope I find it

Quote:
Originally Posted by MASTERBOSSGROWER View Post
remember to check your law about plant numbers etc, where i am, a rooted clone is considered the same as a Sequoia sempervirens,
Up to this point, I wasn't really concerned with plant numbers... I know they make a difference if push comes to shove but...

I do not plan on selling anything. I do not plan on any of the plant matter ever leaving my property (compost, means of burning, animals to consume leafs etc.), unless I take it for a picnick or walk with the doge or whatever...
If friends come by, we can smoke my stuff instead of their crap. But I won't sell to them. I might gift them a nug for their birthday but even that is still up for debate...

I would love nothing more than to gift this or that friend of mine a big fat jar of the best weed he/she ever smoked and more than they ever had in front of them in their life.
It is so expensive here if you want any quality and even then the quality is mediocre at best...

But alas, that would lead to questions as to how I can suddenly afford to hand out such a huge amount of bud. Where is it coming from? etc. etc.

So I can't for now hope legalisation is not far away and with the Americans leading the way, I doubt it will take much longer, maybe a couple of years...
Just enough time for me to get my strain ready ha

I have thought out security to maybe 80% of what I am planning to do in that respect. Some of it I will mention in the upcoming "diary entries".
I have read through a bunch of articles on or stories of, people "getting caught".
Not once did I read of someone who chose not to "go bigger" or go totally overboard from the start and getting caught. Pretty much every story I read on that subject included the person in question upgrading, expanding, selling, being greedy, not being secretive enough etc. etc.

I am under the impression that in my own house, in my own basement, in a secret/invisible room that is secured by an electronic numbers lock no less, I have very little to fear if I adhere to some common sense and security protocols...

As far as I am concerned, the biggest risk I am taking, is being on this board (and previously others) posting.
The next biggest risk will be acquiring seeds and equipment.

After that, I see the biggest risk in the carbon filter failing and I will always, always have a backup and am looking towards connecting the exhaust vent to the chimney of my house, to limit that risk factor as well.

Truth is though, this will quickly leave me with just too much bud ...
I only want to smoke my favorite phenotypes anyway but at least every strain selection I do (6 times for now), I will harvest percentually more bud I do not want to smoke than bud I want to smoke.
And the bud I want to smoke will probably last me quite a bit, even if it is just 1 or 2 plants ... And if I need more, all I need to do is take a few cuts from the Bonsai mum and grow me a stash. 1 harvest would easily give me a stash that would last me years...

So that leaves me with the problem of what to do with all that bud I don't wanna smoke because I have better available...

I have honestly and seriously contemplated simply incinerating it...
If I can't smoke it all and can't sell it, not even gift it all away... What do I do with it?
Turn it all into bubble hash? Then what do I do with a buttload of good bubble hash that I don't necessarily want to smoke either because I got premium bubble hash or material for it sitting in my freezer ...

See my first world conundrum here? .....

I am still not sure how to go about this...
For now I was planning to cure my weed in the freezer posted about the method here with refference to ICmag and then seal it up and store it long term in the freezer as well.

This way I can keep it for quite some time without negatively affecting its quality (or so they say over at ICmag).
Then I either dispose of it at some point, or legalisation happens or I don't know ....

Quote:
Originally Posted by MASTERBOSSGROWER View Post
hope of some help
Very much so buddy, will also research the strains you suggested, thanks!
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  #6  
Old 12-02-2015, 04:21 PM
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Default The Location

The Location

I am looking at a basement that has a maximum height of about 2.05 meters in the middle and declines towards the sides in an oval shape (think church/wine cellar).

I decided to go with tents to create the separate chambers I will need for my project.

At a height of 2 meters, the tents could be a little over 1.70 meters wide.
Wider at a lower height.

The length of the room is 3.50 meters.

So the maximum space I could create there would be 200(h)x170(w)x350(l) cm. I believe at around 180 height, the width would increase to over 2 meters, have to measure again...

There is actually another room with a more even ceiling, which I had discared previously for another reason... Will measure that one again as well.
Will do so tomorrow.

Another issue with the location is that it seems slightly damp...
Have to get around to buying a hygrometer and measure it to have clarity ...


Continued

Sorry for the intermission folks. Back I am!

I measured the second room with the more level ceiling but unfortunately it includes some measuring meters and will have to be accessed sometimes, so it's a no-go.

So back to "our" room which I measured again, it is actually: ~208 cm high.
The effective area at 2m height is: 170 (w)x350 (l)x 200(h) cm
At a height of 180 the effective area becomes: 260x350x180
And at the lowest height of 165 cm the entire floor space becomes available with a size of: 305x350x165

I also measured the humidity and temperature. Currently being winter and some windows in the basement being always open, leaving fresh air from outside in:
RH: 60% constant... not sure if I will have to combat this... From what I could gather this is at the higher end of RH but not over the top or still considered "normal"...
Temps: 10-12C


The Setup

I was planning to go with a main flowering tent of 120x120x200 cm, running a 600W HPS with a carbon filter and fan (size/dimensions unsure atm... more on that later).
As the veg tent I was thinking 120x120x180 cm, running T8s and/or CFLs.

Let's assume for now that I can have my mums and clones in there as well. I would then use a say 40x110x160 cm rack system. Bottom level I got the clones in propagators, 2nd level I have the rooted clones in their jiffy/party cups, 3rd level I have clones in 1 or 2 liter pots.

This would leave me with a 80x120 area for vegging plants.

The idea was to veg in 4 liter round smart pots with a 15cm diameter and bloom in 8 or 12 liter smart pots with about 21 and 25.5cm diameter respectively.

Last edited by Broseidon; 12-03-2015 at 03:09 PM.
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  #7  
Old 12-02-2015, 04:53 PM
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Default

hello,

seriously friend be careful:

cultivation:

10 - 100 65 euros fine per plant and/or half a day in prison per plant.

remember a rooted clone is a plant, you will be "suppliying" also, to your missus, friends, many people

it only takes one stupid idiot...

---------------------------

i think, really and i have considered this very much

you need to go route 1 of growing many many f1's out, and finding a keeper.

(this will probaby be done best, by making 2 seperate IBL's (via STS / selfing whatever to hopefully get hybrid vigor with more predictability of offspring))

OR just picking one strain and trying to improve it.

like say you went with black widow and wanted white phenos only with improved yield or something.

baring in mind here, that f1 seed as a starting point, is not ideal to work with, due to mendellian ratio of phenotype.

...and that is all i know.

regards.
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Old 12-03-2015, 02:53 PM
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Hey bro,

I finished my entry on the location one post above.

If you read the post below on "The Cycles", you will see I ran the theoretical plant numbers required for breeding and considering clones as plants (which the law does here) and I am also getting a bit insecure. Especially after your feedback and re-iteration of it...

Ultimately, I could bump down my final selection of each strain to 1 male and 2 females. 3 Per strain leaves me with 18 plants parents (male and female) at the end.

If I take only 1 instead of 2 clones per seedplant as backups, I could further greatly reduce the numbers.

That being said, at peak production (4 strains selected at 3 parents per strain makes 12, plus 24 in veg and 24 in flower with 24 backup clones of flower), I would still be somewhere in the area of 80+ plants ...

Not sure if a bro is supposed to piss his pants at this point and say "screw it, I better not breed and just run a strain at a time and select 1 mum per strain and leave out all the males and seed-making stuff" ....
With that in mind I would still have a peak of 4 parents selected + 24 veg + 12 flower + 12 clones making it 48 plants ...
Don't know if it makes that much of a difference...
If I can't keep my security tight, I think I am screwed no matter what ...

And I won't supply anyone mate...
I will supply myself and the missus. We have been married for a while and are a strong couple. I would be very surprised and might as well go to jail if after 15 years together she would suddenly backstab or blackmail me or sth and become a security hazzard. I will discount that possibility.

In terms of friends, the only thing I am really considering at the moment is giving them a single nug, never more than a gram, to take home with them if they came to visit, we smoked and they would like to roll one or two at home/the next day.
That's it.
I also don't see this being more than a bi-weekly occurence and I have purchased weed and giving my friends a gram (for the same price I bought it) off of it because they couldn't find any good one themselves.
They have done the same for me before. We have been doing this once in a while for more than 10 years and never had anything happen.

So this is what I would keep doing only with much better quality bud...
I am also talking maybe 4 friends here, we don't have that many smokers.

The other thing I thought about when trying to estimate how much "left over" buds I will get (i.e.: 2nd grade bud/bud of plants that weren't selected to be mothers) was to maybe keep it in the freezer until I finished my 6 strain selection and then sell the contents of my freezer for cheap/low price to one friend who has been selling bud (and only bud) for more than 10 years now.
It wouldn't be 10 kilos and flood the market or anything but he would be happy to sell the contents of my freezer over the course of a month or two and I would have a way to dispose of my top quality (but in my world 2nd grade) bud without having to incinerate/destroy it ...
I would tell that friend that I knew a guy who knows a guy who sold off his stash and I was able to get in on the action but could only buy this one pack of 500 gram or whatever and now am a little overwhelmed, realizing I will never be able to smoke all of this with the missus in the house (she officially is a non-smoker, actually only uses extracts/edibles and very rarely vapes - to my friends she is a great blanket for me because in their mind I would never be allowed to grow inside the house, she wouldn't let me). Since this would only happen once (after the 6 strain selection) and maybe one more time after a couple of years of breeding/trying out strains, I see this as very little risk.

Currently I am leaning against this however because I want to minimize risks. I might just turn all of the 2nd grade bud into hash and extracts that I can keep for so long and in such a small space, I wouldn't mind if I need 10 years to smoke/use it all ...

For the purpose of "Broseidon's Corner", I will continue to write everything out I have researched/planned so far as if I were going through with my plan of breeding.

But I take your feedback and advice very serious and will seriously consider if it wouldn't be wiser to keep plant numbers a little lower and only "grow females and select mums".

I would love for other community members to chime in on this topic. Do you think I am naive for thinking "If I get in trouble, I will be royally screwed either way"? Or if you think my situation is/sounds solid, as do my thoughts and measures on security and I should go through with it because 50 or 100 plants won't make a huge difference, I have to avoid getting caught either way?

Tune back in later today or tomorrow, when I will ramble on about the medium, nutes, harvesting, curing and storage.

Last edited by Broseidon; 12-03-2015 at 03:10 PM.
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  #9  
Old 12-03-2015, 03:08 PM
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Default The Cycles

The Cycles

Say I start with 30 seeds of Strain A and let us assume that 24 of the seedlings make the cut for veg (assuming the loss of 4 sickly ones or mistakes in handling seeds or whatever). Let us further assume the standard 50% male rate.
That will leave us with 24 plants in 4 liter pots for vegging. According to my calculations I would be able to fit 5x7 4 liter pots in the 80x120 area. So we are good for now.

For the flowering area of 120x120, according to my calculations, I can fit 16 12 liter pots in there comfortably and 25 plants in 8 liter pots.

Since I want to flower larger numbers of plants for selection, I would lean towards 25 8 liter pots, so I can send the whole 24 seedplants from veg into flower.

Before flowering them, I would cut 2 clones off each seedplant and have them root.
That would mean 48 clones rooted clones with 24 plants in flower in 8 liter pots.

In the meantime, I would pop the next 30 seeds (Strain B) and prepare the next 24 plants for 4 liter pot vegging.
Once the plants of Strain A show sex, I would cull the males and flower out the females.
However, I assume that I can make a decent selection on the males at this point...
If it is advisable to flower the males out as well before making a selection, I see no way around a "bro-tent" just for male flowering... Or I could cut down the number of males to 2-4 and flower this selection alongside the ladies in isolation chambers (see IC mag). From this selection of "flowered males" I can then select my final 1-2 male keepers for the strain.

Now my timing gets all iffy because I lack experience in this manner. I know it is very much strain and environment dependent but I would be very happy if the community could give me rough estimates on the time frames and if what I plan to do, in terms of timing, is possible...

Let's assume the ideal scenario:
Strain A is ready for harvest. Clones of Strain A have been reduced to 14 (2 male, 12 female) through early male selection and only 1 clone per female has been planted in 1 liter pots. So I would have to keep 14 1 liter pot plants in my 40x110 rack system (not even sure if that's possibly, haven't checked on 1 liter pot sizes yet..) while the 24 8 liter pot plants occupy the veg area.

Now the 24 of Strain B go into flowering with 48 cuts of them having been previously rooted and put in the clone rotation.

Let's assume I was able to properly cure and test Strain A and cut the number down to 1-2 males and 2-4 females. Leaving me with a total of 2-6 parent plants.
Now I am not sure if I should/could prune these tiny fellas and gals in 1 liter pots...
I had always thought I will keep my bonzai parents in 4 liter pots.
But the latest with the introduction of Strain D, if I keep the parents of Strains A and B in 4 liter pots in the veg area, my veg area will get overcrowded. I doubt the 40x110 rack will be able to compensate...
Unless I keep the parents in 1 liter pots and just prune them more regularly...

Otherwise I assume at this point the need for a utility veg tent becomes apparent...

The question is basically if I can avoid or eliminate overlap in the veg area through proper timing going with the tent size, pot size and plant number I had in mind. I have a feeling that it won't be possible, even if I fine-tune everything...

I actually already had a utility tent in mind.
I got a great offer for a 40x40x80 tent. I could by 3 of those for the price of one 80x80x180 tent...

Originally I was planning to use one of the 40x40x80 tents as my dry-tent and the other 2 as utility tents. For example if I need a bro tent to flower out the dudes our if I need to stick some clones or mothers in there to create some spac...

What do you guys think about this idea of using 3 40x40x80 tents in this manner?

Question is, if they would be large enough for the job as well.
I am getting a little lost in the math right about now. I think I will come to an end for this entry and look at it with a fresh mind later this evening...

Either way, the plant numbers are becoming a little unwieldy and... scary

I guess I could say if clones count as plants, I will, at certain points in the initial 6 strain selection bonanza, have 24 plants in veg, 24 plants in flower and more than 50 clones in rotation or 1 liter pots...
So I would break the 100 plant mark regularly which is... again ... a bit scary...

At this point I am deliberating again if I shouldn't distance myself from the breeding idea, for now, and simply grow females and select 1-2 mothers per strain...

This way I could get the max plant numbers waaaay down, probably around the 50 mark at max...

On the other hand... Once I am at the point of having (let's cut it to 1 male and 2 female per strain) 3x6=18 mothers and fathers and 12 plants in flowering making it 30 plants. Add a male or two for pollination if I am making seeds ...

32 plants doesn't sound so bad to me ...

But to get there, I might break 100 a couple of times.... *sigh*

I will have to think about this and your opinions are welcome, as so far only Masterbossgrower has voiced his on the subject.

If I distance myself from my breeding aspirations, a 120x120x200 flower and 120x120x180 veg tent with a 40x40x80 dry tent should have plenty of capacity to simply flower 12 girls at a time and select a mom or two from each strain....

Decisions, decisions ...
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Old 12-03-2015, 03:09 PM
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Default Secret Room and Ventilation

The Secret room and Ventilation

The room in mind has a window that exits to the street in front of the house at knee level. There is hardly any visibilty there, even if one bends down to pick up a coin or stomething. But I obviously would eliminate visibility from the inside and create a wooden casing for the window's inside. If I use this window for exhausting used air, I would be a little worried about the carbon filter ever failing because any passer by (it's not a busy street but I would say during the day maybe 50 people will pass by regularly) would be immediately overwhelmed by the smell. There is a school not too far away and children might pass by in front of the house sometimes so I am really not too keen on using this window...
The alternative would be to break through the wall on the other side of the room. The adjacent room offers me a connection to the chimney of the house. This seems like the far better solution.

If I start to do wall-work, I might as well go all out

The idea is to eliminate the previously mentioned window to the street by walling it shut.
Down in the Basement, I would create a dry-wall to create the illusion of the room not being there. Electricity and water along with air would come from the adjacent room. The pipes/cables would be hidden behind the heating system/casings for electricity, etc.

The entrance to the room would be a door secured with an electric numbers lock that will be hidden in the dry wall at ceiling level behind a picture or something.
The door itself would be hidden by a mirror, another painting or a wardrobe with a fake back-wall.

Voila, a secret room for my plants.


Now in terms of ventilation, m of fans and carbon filters, I am still a little lost and would appreciate some help...


Let us assume I go with the 120x120x200 flowering, 120x120x180 veg and a single 40x40x80 tent for drying.

Would it really be necessary to have a carbon filter and fan combo for each tent? If so, I guess calculating the size for each tent is easy enough.

Ventilation is probably the topic I put the least time into researching so far.
From what I could gather I think it would also be possible to connect the veg and flower tents air circulation, using only 1 filter (in the flower tent) and 1 fan.
For example to have passive intake in the veg tent, then extract the used air at the top of the veg tent and lay 2 200mm diameter ducts to the intake vents at the bottom of the flowering tent. Then extract the air at the ceiling of the flowering tent through a carbon filter and fan combo with 200-250mm ducting.
I was hoping to be able to use a 750m rated fan and filter to do this job....

What do you guys think?

For the dry tent I would use 125-150mm diameter ducting and a small, maybe rated at 150-250m filter and fan.

If I use 3 of the 40x40x80 tents, I was thinking to connect them all in a row with the exhaust to intake method I thought of using with the veg/flower tent as well.
With the dry tent sitting at the end, filtering the air and sucking it out with a maybe then 250-400m fan.

I would connect both exhaust ducts (the one from the veg/flower tent circulation and the one from the 3 40x40x80 tents circulation) with a Y connector at the end and move it into the adjacent room where I connect the exhaust to the chimney.


Another possible (at least from what I understand) option would be to have a dedicated fan+filter combo for each the flowering and veg tent (smaller for veg obviously) and connect the 40x40x80 utility tents to this air flow. I.e.: Exhaust from 40x40x80 tent 1 is intake 1 for flower tent. Exhaust from 40x40x80 tent 2 is intake 2 for flower tent.
Connect the third 40x40x80 as intake for the veg tent.
Very unclear on the size of the fan/filter combos here...


Yet another option I read of (actually I believe it was Shanti mentioning this) would be to have a passive intake for the flower tent, extract the air at the ceiling through a filter and then connect this duct (maybe splitting it in 2 lines with a Y or T connector) to the intake of the veg tent.
This way, the veg tent receives the pre-warmed air from the flowering tent which could be extra beneficial in a basement area and many cool months. A simple plate with water would also allow me to bump up humidity for clones and vegging plants, if they like it.
But to my understanding, I would have to use an even larger fan than the one extracting air from flower and blowing into veg, to extract air from veg. Otherwise I would get positive/over-pressure in the veg tent... Also, I would either have to use a second filter in the veg extraction or would simply not filter the air extracted from veg. Since I plan to blow it out the chimney, I guess it should be fine? But I heard that some strains (none I worked with so far) stink quite a bit in veg ...

Any feedback on ventilation is extremely welcome!

Last edited by Broseidon; 12-03-2015 at 03:15 PM.
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