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Old 12-10-2015, 07:02 PM
professorjj's Avatar
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Location: Great Southern Land
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Originally Posted by la resistance verte View Post
never too much light
Amen brother 😆
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Old 12-11-2015, 09:38 AM
Broseidon's Avatar
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Posts: 922

Hey folks, thanks again for the feedback.

And thank you in particular Patrick.

I also said it in the other thread: I think you are right, I am overcomplicating things and I wanted to KISS

Thing is, at this moment, I still have time as well as the energy and motivation to plan everything as carefully and as well as I possibly can.

I still have to set up the area, I still have to buy stuff, I still have weeks ahead of me where I can muse and think and plan and "overcomplicate" before I have to say "right, this is where I'm at, this is what I know, this is the KISS way of setting everything up and getting started".

But until then, deciding on whether I will be using 3 or 4 tents makes a big difference...

As to the strains I plan to run first etc...
I'm still in the acquisition process but it is shaping up to be like this:
- First run I plan to do with 3 Indicas or mostly Indica strains. My reasoning being that they will be the most forgiving to any hiccups and mistakes I make until I have everything "dialed in". The 3 strains are looking to be Blueberry from Peakseeds, Pakistan Citral Kush from Ace and MasterkushxSkunk from MNS. (Critical Mass from MNS would be another candidate instead of the MasterkushxSkunk)
- Second run I plan to do with 3 hybrids, currently looks like it will be C99 from peakseeds, G13xWidow or G13xSkunk from MNS and Black Widow from MNS. Shit from MNS is another possible candidate.
- Third run will be 3 Sativas, Malawi from Ace, Nevill'es Haze from MNS and either Mango Haze or Angel's Breath from MNS or possibly the Sweet Skunk from Peakseeds.

Up to this point I wanted to make passive selection on males (observe until showing sex and then select 1 per strain) and active selection on females (observe throughout veg and flower, test finished product, make selection of 1 per strain after).

I assume that I will have made selections on all strains from the 1st and 2nd run at the point I'm running the Sativas.

If I am satisfied with the keepers of my 6 favorite strains at the time the Sativas finished/were selected, I can begin breeding/crossing with the next run. If I feel there is potential in a line but am not satisfied with my keeper, I will pop more seeds of that strain and search more for the right pheno.

I'm currently a little concerned that the Sativas would be finishing next winter. It is indoors and all but I assume that Sativas would do better if ambient temperature s higher than when its lower in winter. So I might swap the hybrids and the Sativas i.e. run the Sativas first and the hybrids last

So let's KISS and simplify and humble things down a bit with the following setup:
- Flowering tent 120x120x200 with 600W HPS, 8 T8 fluorescent tubes with 6400K spectrum in the corners, 750 m fan/scrubber
- Veg and clone/mum/dad tent 120x120x180 with T8s and CFLs (as much as I can cram in there, mostly 6400K spectrum but some 4000K as supplement), 400W MH if I can use my old ballast and just need to get the bulb.
Air extraction will connect to the intake of the flowering tent, air is sucked through from the scrubber/fan in the flowering tent
- Utility tent 80x80x160, 4 T8s with 6400K spectrum, fan is rated at about 400m (old one from 10 years ago), the scrubber can probably be even smaller for such a small tent.
This will be used for drying and sometimes to keep some mums/dads if the veg tent is overflowing.

What do you guys think? At this point my biggest question remains the ventilation and if I can run the veg/flower air circulation with one scrubber/fan of 750m by just connecting the two tents' air flow...

Last edited by Broseidon; 12-11-2015 at 09:42 AM.
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Old 12-12-2015, 10:43 AM
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 66
Default Total # of plants grown

How is it going Bro. I am not sure how it is where you live, but over here it isn't just a matter of 100 plants but how many you habe grown total, past and present. For instance, lets say someone were busted with 50 plants but they have a breeding or grow journal showing that they have previously grown 150 other plants (long gone by now) then when busted they would count the grow as 200 plants. Again I am not sure if it is the same where you live, but I wanted to give a heads up. You wouldnt want to have records of thousands of plants even if yor only growing a small amount. Good luck with yoir endeavors.

Peace, DieselHaze840.
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Old 12-12-2015, 01:19 PM
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Posts: 922

Hey bro, thanks for the feedback!

The most important factors here, if it ever gets to that point, will be if I restricted access and indeed did it all within my house without releasing anything to the outside.

Which I fully plan to do now.

I have found a way to get rid of any excess product I cannot consume.

I will harbor it for 5 years or so. Collect everything in the freezer (smoke my smoke in the meantime).

When I am ready to hang it up and take down my grow/breeding op, I will dump it all in one move.

I fail to see how I should ever get in trouble or get discovered if I do this.

The only reasonable way I see right now is if I am being tracked on this website/forum here or on any of the others I visited.

Honestly, in my opinion, it would totally be worth it to have police knocking at my door and possibly even fining me a couple grand, even going to jail for a few months would be fine by me.

You know why?

Becuase the way I am setting it up, there is no way I could get discovered without me being personally tracked online.

And if I was, it would be worth it, totally, to know that we already live in a "Big Brother" state/country.

I would let my fellow citizens know and things would hopefully change.

Going to prison for a few years would be worth that imho.

But I doubt that will happen.
I have never been in contact with the law. I have never been punished safe for a small parking/speeding ticket.

It is highly unlikely and the government/whoever would be chasing me, would out themselves as broadly tracking citizens without cause.

Also, they have their hands full with isis and other stuff ...
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Old 01-02-2016, 08:21 AM
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 66
Default Good luck

Good luck Bro, i wish you thr best on your endeavors, chances are you will be fine, i cant wait to watch your journey unfold.
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Old 02-15-2016, 10:01 AM
Broseidon's Avatar
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Posts: 922

Howdy folks!

So the day to plant hasn't come yet but my seeds are here

I have made the tentative list of what I will grow and would like to hear what you guys think about it. I am particularly unsure about which strain to choose for my second run.
The first run will probably begin in April and I have roughly estimated 3 months per run. Thusly, I plan to have 2 summer and 2 winter runs per year (marked in the following list as "S" for summer and "W" for winter season).

Here it goes:

- Shit (S)
- ASH (S)
- Critical Mass (W)
- PCK [Ace]; Medicine Man (W)
- Mango Haze (S)
- Malawi [Ace] (S)
- Ortega (W)
- Blueberry [peakseeds] (W)
- Neville's Haze(S)
- Zamaldelica [Ace]; Super Silver Haze (S)
- C99 [peakseeds] (W)
- G13xSkunk; G13xWidow (W)
- Black Widow; MangoxWidow (S)
- La Nina; Angel's Breath (S)
- Master Kush x Skunk (W)
- NL5xSkunk (W)
- Sweet Skunk [peakseeds]; Spice (S)
- Angel's Breath; Angel Heart (S)
- Z8 x Afghan Haze (W)
- Walkabout (W)

This is obviously subject to change. Some of the strains, I will have 20 plus seeds left over after running them once and might run them a second time instead of some of the strains listed later.

Right now I am most uncertain about running ASH second...

The reasoning behind running Shit first is that I want to get my groove back before popping any of the "magic beans" that I imagine will be my core strains (for later cross breeding):
- Mango Haze
- Malawi
- Blueberry
- Critical Mass
- Neville's Haze
- C99

The second run is supposed to fill the same purpose (get my groove back).
Now with the Shit, I am confident that selecting a keeper mum and dad will be useful for later cross breeding. A good Skunk can enrich most if not all strains (at least this is my understanding).
For my second strain I wanted to go with the Ortega for the same reasoning (plus I have some limited experience with NL). However, I was lead to believe that Ortega is not that unproblematic of a strain and it would be advisable to have everything "dialed in" before running it. So I moved it further back to year 2.

ASH are top 10 in the cheapest seeds I have and top 3 in the highest amount of seeds i have from a strain. It should also be an "unproblematic" strain and one where strong, fruity flavors can be found. AfghanxSkunk and AfghanxHaze have also been used quite a bit in breeding by Shanti, so they should be useful for later crosses.

Alternatively I was thinking Master Kush x Skunk for my second run. NL5xSkunk is also an option, just thought it might get a bit boring growing Skunk, NL5xSkunk and Critical Mass (afghan x Skunk) in a row. Then again, I might get intimately familiar with the Skunk lineage in the process

However, I am mostly interested in the Sativa side of things and 4 out of the 6 strains I want to focus on are Sativas or Sativa heavy hybrids. So the ASH seems more suitable.

I am also considering moving the Ortega and G13xSkunk;G13xWidow further down the list in order to move up the Black Widow; Mango x Widow and the La Nina.

I also tried to have Sativas and Sativa heavy strains in the summer and Indicas or Indica heavy strains in the winter. Particularly for the Blueberry this will be "important" because I do want to try my best and get her to purple.

Strains I have but haven't scheduled for growing yet:
- Early Haze
- Dreamtime
- Neville's Skunk
- NL5/Haze x Skunk aka National Health Service (NHS)
- C99xBB (peakseeds)
- Nordle

Thoughts, criticism, etc. are welcome.

Last edited by Broseidon; 02-15-2016 at 10:03 AM.
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Old 02-15-2016, 04:46 PM
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You mentioned that you have 3 months for the run? Is that 3 months from seed to harvest or 3 months of flowering? If it's under 100 total days, I'd suggest running only the fastest strains, or running no more than 25% haze hybrids & going 12/12 almost from seed. If you select longer floweing varieties, be prepared to not be able to finish a % of them if you have a set date you have to harvest by. I'll be taking some of mine down 5-10% early, & it's a tough pill to swallow.

Run 10-15 Shit seeds, pick the best female on run #1.
Run the rest of the Shit seeds & your chosen female on run #2 & polinate your girl with any tough frosty males. Now you have a clone & a bigass batch of (likely) quality seed to play with moving forward. IME, Shit outcrosses very well.

I'd advise you to grow 6 or more females of each given strain & not to try to analyze more than 1-2 new strains on any given run. It's not about seeing more plants & strains, it's about seeing each plant/strain for what it's worth.

Good luck, Bro
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Old 02-15-2016, 07:24 PM
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Hey Bro,

the 3 months/run was just an average to calculate for a 5 year span. Anything that takes longer etc. will just make strains further down the list be postponed for later in the future etc.

I actually wanted to run 30 Shit from seed. Flower the 25 best (if the other 5 germed and grew solidly, I will move them in after culling the weakest males).

Select 1 male and 1 female for long term keeping.
Keep those 2 parent plants long-term as bonsai mums/dads.
And on to the next strain.

Do this for 5 years until I have a parent selection from all my core strains and any additional that was noteworthy.

Then follow up with 5 years of cross-breeding and selection.

Although I have considered the method you suggest as well. Making some seeds every run (at least crossing the strain with itself)...
Not sure, gotta meditate on it.

So the goal behind this list is to get a keeper mum and dad from each of my core strains within 5 years and if growing something else, get something useful out of it for my cross-breeding plans.

Last edited by Broseidon; 02-15-2016 at 07:27 PM.
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Old 02-15-2016, 09:47 PM
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Posts: 1,215

That is a lot of seed, you should keep them in a fridge for viability purposes. All those would take me 10 years to grow out! I find 4 months is average from germ to harvest for even indy hybrids, for sat heavy plants add a month+. Generally it takes seedlings 3-4 weeks from germ to really start kicking out the strong growth and I prefer they get 6-8 weeks veg before flower. Flower from seed is generally 8-12 weeks on most MNS strains.

I would start with shit and cm, both great strains, both easy to grow, fast, big yielders. The reason is an all sativa garden is very challenging and can take forever with low harvests until you find a producing pheno that has characteristics you like. Nothing worse than spending 6 months on a grow to have a harvest that you smoke up in a month! Trust me, jars stuffed full of S and CM will keep you happy for a long time.
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Old 02-16-2016, 08:08 AM
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I have been meditating on it for a bit again

And yes, that's A LOT of seeds and I did buy them to make sure I have enough for a decade.
About half of them I plan to freeze, the rest kept in a fridge to run during the coming 5 years.

I am leaning towards a "more natural approach" at the moment. It is nature we are dealing with after all and nature can't be rushed.

Am Shooting for about 21-22 5 gallon containers for the flower area and 25-30 2 gallon containers for veg.

Will pop about 30 Shits and flower the best of em, then look at their development. At about the start of flower I will pop the remaining 10 Shits and refill the flowering space as I remove weaklings/undesirables.
Then just watch the flowering area and hope I recognize when the time has come to pop the next seeds and how many (maybe the forum will be able to help me here with people like sysadmin, who are experienced with Shit in particular, chiming in).

Then I will go with CM and do the same but maybe not pop all of those seeds (have over 50).
Then do the PCK (only 12 seeds) mixed with the NL5xSkunk.
Next I would grow the Blueberry but want to have everything really dialed in and "proper" before doing so. I am still eyeing the winter of year 2 but might grow it straight after the PCK. Once done with the Blueberry, this should leave me with all the "essential" indicas in my program covered.
According to Neville, the NL5xSkunk and CM could also provide me with what I need for "Bubblegum". Combined with the PCK and Blueberry, I am confident I will find my "tasty weed" from those strains. If not, I have things like Ash, Angel Heart, Nordle, NHS etc. to run later on.

After the PCK and NL5xSkunk or the Blueberry at the latest, I would go into the Sativas. At the same time, I would run clones of selected mums and dads in order to start making the first crosses (e.g. run a PCK, NL5xSkunk and CM male in isolation chambers and 1-2 selected mums of Shit, NL5xSkunk, PCK and CM next to the upcoming Sativas).
Pollination will be done by hand and I will dust single branches/budding sites. So each selected mum will get a branch/budding site dusted with each of the selected males.

Neville's Haze and/or C99 next, then Mango Haze, Malawi, Zamaldelica/SSH and into the Black Widow line we go with the La Nina, Mango x Widow etc. Closing it out with Angel's Breath, Ashe, etc.

I think most of this should be doable in a 5 year time-frame. What can't be grown then, will just be grown later.
If I start making seeds with selected parent stock while still selecting from other strains, I can likely gain some time as well. So by the time I am done with the Malawi and move on to the Zamaldelica/SSH, I can already be done with making the F1s of my intended crosses, so after about 5 years I could already go into making F2s etc.

I have also been offered cuts of SFV OG Kush, Gorilla Glue#4 and other "legendary" strains that have been making waves the past few years. By year 3 or so I will likely be able to obtain them.
So we will have to see if I will go ahead and get them and how I would incorporate them into the whole deal.

For now the plan is clear: Start with Shit and nothing but shit and move on to Critical Mass.
Then take it from there

Quick question:
As I mentioned, I plan to go with 5 gallon containers for flower. Not for yield but because I want to run organic soil and was told that 5 gallons is the desired minimum size for this. Was considering 10 gallon containers as well but the space ...

Anyway: If I find a desirable male in a 5 gallon pot, I will need a huge ass isolation chamber to flower it out.
So I would like to re-pot desirable males into 3 gallon containers before putting them into isolation chambers.
Think I will have to run my males from clone every time or do you think I could dig out a male from its 5 gallon container and plant it into a 3 gallon container to flower in an isolation chamber? I would be a bit worried about damaging its roots when digging it out from the 5er ...
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