Mr. Nice Forums  
Home History Strains Media Web Community Medical Marijuana Contact us Auctions

Go Back   MNS Forums > Grow information > 14. Indoor

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-04-2014, 10:38 PM
keingrower's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 19
Smile keingrowers tent grow: white widow / snow white

Hello dear growers, cannabis connoisseurs and gourmets

First of all, I would like to say thanks to all the people who contribute to this site and forum.

I am a long time cannabis smoker and enjoy a smoke every day. Just recently I was getting annoyed with my cannabis source and about all that stuff that comes with it. So I decided to start my first grow.

Because I did not want to make some serious mistakes at the beginning and lose my discovered interest in keeping my own plants I started some research.

At first I read many threads and information on the web about the plant, the growing phases, the needs, the environment and so on. Long story short, I bought a full grow package.

Because of limited space (I am growing in my room), I have to closet grow in a way… no its tent growing

Here are the facts / my equipment:
  • Grow Tent, Secret Jardin DR90 (90cm x 90cm x 180cm)
  • Euro Reflector
  • 400W Sylvania GroLux Lamp (58’000 Lumen, 2050K, High Pressure Sodium)
  • Lumatek 400W Digital Ballast HPS / MH (not the dimmable version)
  • Systemair RVK 100 L Exhaust Fan
  • Carbon filter
  • 1 fan for air transport inside the tent
  • (added after 2 months vegging) temperature controller, connected to my exhaust fan
  • passive intake (open up the tent when lamps are on)

I am at day 46 of flowering right now, as I have started long before I got around to share my thoughts and experiences. First I was kind of scared to share this all over the web. Second thought was, there are a lot of people doing it and I am just a little home grower who grows for his personal stash. So whatever….

Third thought… no one around me knows that I am growing.. and its so hard not to tell anyone or not to share … and if there is something going wrong.. I need to ask someone.. so here I am I hope you will enjoy my first little thread.. it will not have many pictures as I have not taken any up till now.

Along with my gear described above, I use for my first grow:
  • Soil, without nuts..(is this called promix?) with perlite (dont know the exact recipe, but it has a good drainage as far I can tell, and when its dried out, it expands and doesn’t sink with time).
  • Plagron Nutrient Line (I think you can call this organic… or bio or whatever no chems.. ?): Alga Bloom, Alga Grow, Vita Race, Power Roots, Green Sensation, Lemon Kick for pH adjustment
  • I use tap water, kept in a reservoir with air stones (to get rid of chlorine) and with a little water heater to keep the temperature about 23-25°C..
  • 3.5 Liter pots

I am a bit ashamed of the seeds I used for my first grow… I have read very much about keeping plants, about the setup of your grow room, but I have not really read much about the strains, the genetics, the different breeding methods resp. seed production techniques and about the persons behind it. Thats why I am proud to say that I will get some MSN seeds and if I have energy I will start a new grow diary with them

Seeds available:
  • White Widow Strain from Seedsman
  • Snow White Strain from Nirvana Seeds
  • Blue Widow Strain from Dinafem (is not grown at the moment, space issues)

For my first grow, I decided to not transplant my plants, so I started with the 3.5L pots. I popped 4 WW and 2 SW, all of them where up the next 3-4 days. Yeeeah… (after some weeks I read about germination rates etc and was relieved that all my plants germinated).

I am using a HPS lamp for the hole grow. started with 18h light. At present, it is summer and the temps go way up to 30°C, so I let my lamps run in the night to profit from a little cooler temps. What I need to change is, the exhaust air is vented in the room, where the tent is and not outside…. (maybe in winter its not that bad)

The first 13 days I was just spraying the surface with pH water out of my reservoir, one or two times a day. All seedlings began to grow and looked healthy, except one. It was the one which shed the seed skin last.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-04-2014, 10:40 PM
keingrower's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 19
Default Part 2 - Vegetative and Flowering Phase

Vegetative phase(48 days)
As I read that the time of vegetation is very important to the outcome of yield, I decided to grow them for a bit. At week 3 I started with giving them some nutrients (Vita Race = Vitamin spray 1/4 of recommended dosage) and I topped all of them. At week 4 I started with 1/4 Alga Grow and increased it till week 6 (1 dosage).

I LSTed the plants to get an even canopy.

The light schedule was decreased after week 6 to 16h a day, at week 7 to 14h. In the vegetative phase, I always had some problems with low RH, sometimes my hygrometer just stated VERY LOW… With some wet towels I tried to maintain a steady RH between 50-70%… but it was very hard to.

Further, my plants showed some nitrogen deficit early on (the bottom leaves were pale green, the upper ones normal in color or beautiful dark green). Maybe the deficit comes from the soft feeding schedule of mine… or it may be a nutrient lockout… is it possible to have just some lockout.. not a major one??

why I am thinking of nutrient lockout… I was feeding very light at the beginning with Plagron Power Roots (should help to establish root grow), Plagron Alga Grow and once a week with Vita Race (a vitamin spray).. but what I did was feeding with every watering. I never gave my plants just plain pH water.

They did not showed signs of nutrient burn … I think (no burning tips).

White Widow in vegetative phase
All four of them were growing very well. I have topped all of them once. So I got two main tops. Further I let the shoots grow till they were the same height as the two tops.. to do that, I was LSTing the plants a little. I think i have 2 different phenos.. but for an amateur like me, its hard to tell… 3 plants are like… growing normal, 1 plant is a little short.. but the topping did not work correctly and I got some massive top (mutant bud, like two in one… )
this is my mutant bud in day 46 flowering

Snow White in vegetative phase
They were growing a little taller… and did not respond to the topping or I did it wrong. I think the second is the case but with LTSing I got them on the same height more or less.. the are still a little bit taller..

Flowering Phaseweek 8 or day 50
I changed the lighting schedule from 14h to 12h. I read, that it helps to slowly changed the light cycle, as it is more natural. And that some plants may grow better with other lighting schedules, it differs from genetics, the heritage. And if you are growing only one strain you can find the ideal light / dark period for your plant.. so you may get better off with a 13h light / 11h dark period than 12/12... very interesting

With the lighting, I changed my feeding plan and started to feed Alga Bloom. This time I was going with the feeding schedule provided (1 dosage). Additional, some Plagron Green Sensation (1 dosage) was added. I still was feeding with every watering.

The first 2-3 weeks the plants stretched a lot. Especially the two Snow Whites. The one White Widow which always was the baby is now one of my finest and a beauty

I have read about pruning the plant to increase yield as the plant concentrate its energy to the buds you wish… but I never even could snip of a little bit of my precious plants… till this day… I noticed that there is so much growth which will not get enough light and realized, that this growth costs energy… so I pruned my plants and cut of any lower branches … I was already in flowering phase… so I could not use the cuts… but, I dont have space anyway.

I think because I changed the feeding immediately to Alga Bloom, my plants started to lack some nitrogen.. again.. the reason could also be, that I was feeding with every watering.

My plants quickly started to suck up all the energy stored in the leaves and I have lost lot of leaves. But I read that it is usual, that the leaves start to yellow and to fall off when the plant is in flowering.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-04-2014, 10:41 PM
keingrower's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 19
Default Part 3 - Questions

Question to readers:
As I am new… I tried to cure the nitrogen defficency with adding some more nuts than recommended. What happened (I think you all new), was a little nut burn on the leave tips… some leaves were burnt at the tips, very strong yellow in the middle and normal green behind.. does this come from the nutrient burn?

Furthermore, I think I have made a mistake in not keeping up with the growth of the plants and the space between the canopy and the lamps… my 2 Snow Whites are a bit taller and I have put one of them in the middle directly under the lamp…. now one shoot resp. the leaves of the shoot are showing some bleaching or heat burn… it happened after I had the super idea to place the fan under the canopy to ventilate the trimmed stems to prevent mold and diseases… mmm I was not thinking about hot spots forming over the canopy… although I have prevented it till this point..
Snow White A
Snow White B

Could anyone of you analyze this and confirm if its heat burn or heat stress…? further, look at the leaves… that looks not good (

Question to readers
Then look at some leaves of one of my white widow… wtf?… they look like super ninjas throwing stars… has some one experienced anything like that? Does it come from heat stress?
Throwing Star Leaves

What I have noticed… after week 4 of flowering, I have problems to keep my temps down.. even benefiting from the cooler temps at night, the temps keep rising to 30 or 31°C. that sucks… but if summer is ending.. I think temp problems are not an issue.

I have installed a second fan inside the tent to prevent any hot spots over the canopy. both fans are ventilating above the canopy. Second, I have increased the distance between the lamp and canopy.. it is about 45cm… should I go with more?

To determine when I need to start flushing (maybe I dont need to as my nuts are organic… but I will), I bought a little microscope to view the trichomes.. but just looking at the buds.. they need more time.

I think I will wait another week and then maybe start my 2 week flush. so I have 3 additional weeks..

yeah, thats all about it right now Thanks for reading and for helping me out.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-04-2014, 10:42 PM
keingrower's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 19
Default Part 4 - Pictures

Snow White A + B

Snow White A - Budshot

Snow White B

Snow White B - Budshot


White Widow A

White Widow B

White Widow B - Budshot

White Widow B - Budshot 2

White Widow C

White Widow D


Later on I will provide pictures without the HPS lamp on, I think

What you think about my grow?

ps: while uploading my pictures I browsed trough the galleries… ohh man I was so proud of my plants… but … I aint having big buds like I see in the galleries



sincerely
keingrower
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-23-2014, 04:38 PM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 9
Default Nice job!

Hard to diagnose plant issues without being in person and excellent pictures only help so much, so this is speculation at best.

N deficiency and nute burn are two of the more common issues. That said , N deficiencies can be confused with several other things. First thing that comes to my mind when I see what you described is light coverage. Plants self trim ( admittedly some strains better than others ) so whenever I see even yellowing in the lowest nodes I check light penetration. That said, I want to reiterate the fact that N deficiencies will also yellow lower leaves ( older leaves ) that same way.

Nute burn / Lockout... exactly what a plant will tolerate is very strain dependent. I judge 'nute burn' by the tips primarily , however I'm not as experienced in reading cannabis plants yet so I'm sure there's warning signs of stress that we will pick up over time. Given your setup and especially that you were feeding at a reduced strength I wouldn't think nutrient lockout to be likely. I did lookup the products you are feeding with to rule out the possibility that you were missing an additional nutrient to create a balanced feed however they do clearly say Alga Grow can be used by itself.

All Nutes & strains are unique , i have not used those nutes or grown those strains ( I have the Blue Widow going right now though, I think you will enjoy it ). It seems to me that in most cases its better to keep the N levels up in your feeding for quite some time into flowering. Some people use a grow or general purpose 1-1-1 the entire time and have great success.

Healthy leaves = Healthy plant. Keep the leaves happy and that darkish green

If you had a do over for this grow, I'd suggest a few things.

Always consider light trimming, I have some sensi hash plants growing right now .. there are so many leaves I have resorted to using hair cutting techniques when I trim. However my critical haze has a great spread on her so I'm hardly trimming at all ( literally just a leaf or two so far ).

Use your approach to light period transition to everything else. You mentioned "I tried to cure the nitrogen deficiency with adding some more nuts than recommended". Now I could easily be misunderstanding you and if so then ignore this , but I would have recommended transitioning into the new feeding regimine. Personally, I quite literally blend my veg & bloom formulas ( The Dynamic Duo - J. R. Peters Inc. ) together for exactly what my plants need as they progress through flowering. I think that in your shoes I would have upped the nutes as well.. however I would have adjusted in small amounts each feeding until symptoms subsided. Don't forget, damaged leaves usually do not heal so you have to look at healthy foliage for progression of the issue or you have to look at new growth for lack of issue

I also mean to phase in light adjustments. Personally I start my lights farther out and inch them in until I see signs of heat stress. Which brings me to another question you asked .. Yes that picture indicates heat stress. Sorry for another disclaimer but it could be other things... given your description of events it would fit with a hotspot.

Just a few minutes ago I raised one of my LED panels because the top of a hash plant which WAS reaching + stretching for the light had begun curling away from it with whitened tips.

As for the Ninja-Widow, or perhaps the White-Ninja? .. I have no clue but it looks pretty cool though doesnt it?

I do not have the experience to promise you much on temps, but I can attest to my own! The hottest i've ever run was in veg and that was 86-88 for a few hours. I've worked hard to keep around 77-80 F, and I also run my lights at night. When my plants are in 'nighttime' during our daytime my temps get as low as 72F and I will be working on getting that lower. I want a difference of 10F if possible for the blue widow.

From my understanding , PERFECTION using regular air ( ~300 ppm C02 ) is to keep temps around 72-78 F. Around 80F or so ( or so because people seem to disagree a bit ) Cannabis plants tend to REQUIRE more C02 than typical air ( 300 ppm ) but once you reach 90F or above the plants will suffer drastically without additional c02..some strains will just suffer period at 90F. People also tend to agree that if you are supplementing c02 you should let the grow room run up to 80-85F as it will cause the plant to process more c02 than would lower tempertatures.

Granted , cannabis can grow outdoors with temps of 90F without suffering as an indoor plant would. This is because of the many environmental differences such as outdoors having MUCH more airflow as well as the fact that heat tolerance varies from strain to strain.

I use LEDs, so for me the danger of a plant in close proximity to the light is not the heat generated but rather the intensity of the light itself. I place them no closer than 14" although just now I moved one to 19".

Regarding your 45CM, what I would have needed to know was the distance prior to the move. Since your post was weeks ago now.. I hope it worked out!!

I use Jacks for nutes, its really very safe and well engineered, I have never noticed a taste when I do not flush. That said, I still stick to flushing anyway because it seems the more natural way to go. Although when I do not flush I do not notice a chemical taste or anything like that, I seem to find the flushed buds a bit sweeter once cured. That could be in my head I suppose, but it sure doesnt hurt!

How are you judging trichs w/ that microscope? I usually time my flushing... you can learn it per PHENO and be real exact. But if your growing from seed each time then there are some basic phases of flowering.

First you induce flowering which takes a couple days , then you have the formation of sites which begin to grow as the stretching of the plant happens. The 'stretch' can be 10-15% like on some indicas, or it can be a doubling or tripling in height like some sativa's. Once this is done your usually 3-4.5 weeks into flowering. From weeks 4-7 ( strain dependant ) your just watching the buds fatten up. As early as week 6 ( for 8-10 week finishers ) but perhaps not until the end of week 7 you will see trichome production kick up a notch as the bud growth slows down. Around this time ( again for 8-10 week finishers ) you may start to see natural age induced yellowing of foliage, as the plant puts more and more energy into ripening the buds.

At this transitional point I usually start to consider flushing. For example, my hash plants are done at a little over 8 weeks. Sometime in week 7 I will stop fertilizing. I want to see that most buds have already GROWN and that the majority of existing buds are frosting up.

All in all, plants look good! HPS and most lighting skews pics but I think we all get fairly used to it. Tricky part is when using non-white light to diagnose plant issues , that gets dangerous.

When are you going to plant the Blue Widow?

I'm going to end this here, I meant to write a 'quick' post originally.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-23-2014, 07:25 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,094
Default

Hi KG. Learn from your mistakes and learn from the plants and you'll be fine. Also, very nice grow for your first crop so give yourself a pat on the back!

In a 3ft tent i'd grow no more than two plants. Veg them up nicely with the lst/topping and you'll increase yield. Your colas won't be so overcrowded and the light will get into the inners.

Make sure you position your fan just under the bulb (over the canopy) to keep the tops cool, fan the doors of the tent regularly as well as the outdoor window (careful of smell detection and preying eyes though).

Plants need four major things to stay healthy. Light, water, food and air. Screw up any one of these things and you'll run into problems. At a glance I'd say that your room is overcrowded and overheated (air/rh/heat problems) and take care when feeding the plants. Sometimes less is more. Just follow the instructions on the bottle, learn from the plants and don't over complicate things.

With experience you'll learn further techniques such as trimming sucker growth, canopy control of a crowded room etc
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-24-2014, 12:28 AM
conservative christian's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: SoCal
Posts: 104
Default

Congrats on your grow, you clearly studied up.
I agree, a pat on the back is warranted
Your initial less is best approach has always given me consistent good results.
I also use Jacks and couldn't be happier with cost, ease, and especially results.
I recomend cutting lower branches ealier in growth cycle so as not to stress them so late in flower.
I have found that crowding can cost yield, so perhaps as was advised by earlier post 2 plants for your space(less is best)
IF it's in your budget I strongly recomend a cool tube.Then you can ventilate AND cool your space. They are MUCH smaller than a hood.
Its too hard for me to tell by pic's what your leaf issue could be. Just a shot in the dark pH maybe, definitely some light bleaching and over nuted. Like dude said kinda need to see them in person.
If I may suggest...put some doubled up panty hose on your intake airport to keep pest and mold out. You'd be amazed how well something so cheap works
The best of luck to you

Ps
"The first rule of fight club is...."
"The second rule of fight club is..."
Share ONLY with us bro!

Last edited by conservative christian; 07-24-2014 at 04:52 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT. The time now is 10:07 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
All rights reserved, MR NICE SEEDBANK, NL