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Old 12-06-2013, 01:06 PM
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Default Planting Density

Was Considering buying a greenhouse for next summer. Any suggestions on plants per square meter, or planting schemes using different strains?
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Old 12-06-2013, 08:39 PM
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Was Considering buying a greenhouse for next summer. Any suggestions on plants per square meter, or planting schemes using different strains?
It depends on when you plant. You can plant late and have smaller plants closer together with one good cola each or plant early and have a few big monster plants.

A single pure sativa can take over a greenhouse yet a greenhouse can be just the thing for finishing a sativa that wouldn't finish properly outdoors.

Then there is the matter of ventilation and air circulation. More mould prone plants need more space between them or fans.

So there's a lot of variables to consider when making a plant spacing decision and those variables are dependant on the greenhouse, the strain and personal circumstances.... as well as personal likes.

Some people like big plants (me) while other people can't be bothered with all that vegging and like plants to go into flower as soon as possible after planting.

In the old days it was a lot easier with outdoor breeders really focusing on calyx to leaf ratio so you could get plants with excellent air circulation due to very few leaves. Nobody seems to care about this anymore. Most of the breeders these days are sloppy and lazy and this is reflected in the genetics available.

scrubdog
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Old 12-15-2013, 10:18 AM
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Scrubdog's right. So many variables. When you decide on grnhse size, strain & the finish size you want, post back with that info.
-- Scrubdog, I don't think its so much that breeders have gotten sloppy as it is growing techinques have changed so much in the last few years. The old school grower liking the big plants have kinda been pushed aside & breeders of the newer genetics are catering to the sm SOG growers with the high tech lights, high powered fans & exhusts. I've been doing this over 40 yrs & can't believe the changes. I go sog, very sm plants indoors, very modern, but like you, I want the big plants, high calyx to leaf ratio for outdoors, & those are hard to find.

Last edited by catbuds; 12-15-2013 at 10:21 AM.
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Old 12-15-2013, 09:39 PM
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Scrubdog's right. So many variables. When you decide on grnhse size, strain & the finish size you want, post back with that info.
-- Scrubdog, I don't think its so much that breeders have gotten sloppy as it is growing techinques have changed so much in the last few years. The old school grower liking the big plants have kinda been pushed aside & breeders of the newer genetics are catering to the sm SOG growers with the high tech lights, high powered fans & exhusts. I've been doing this over 40 yrs & can't believe the changes. I go sog, very sm plants indoors, very modern, but like you, I want the big plants, high calyx to leaf ratio for outdoors, & those are hard to find.
Well I see plenty of indoor growers complaining about mould and ventilation issues so I would have thought calyx to leaf ratio was even more important these days. There used to be zero manicure strains although that probably wouldn't apply now because I notice that some indoor growers are obsessive with manicuring. We used to leave a little bud leaf so the joints would burn easier.

We used to work on five year breeding plans to produce a strain... minimum. Now they churn them out every six months. Maybe you're right though and I'm just old and out of step with the new ways. :-)

scrubdog
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Old 12-15-2013, 10:31 PM
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I think the reason they may be breeding them leafy is these new strains have so much trichrome production on the bud leaf. The mould issue is what brought about the new high tech exhust systems & fans. No matter what you breed, even animals, every improvement in one area sacrifices something in another. I totally agree with you on the fast turn over breeding. Back in the day, we could get F1 hybrids. Pretty uniform, but subsequent breedings threw phenos all over the board, no uniformity. So GOOD breeders would breed them out quite a few generations for an in-breed line for consistency. Now a days, if you want consistency, you have to breed them out yourself, or hunt your ass off for older established strains.
-- I put myself out of the loop for quite a while because I'd stayed with the same strain for over 20 yrs & had no idea what was going on in the new breeding. Between hurricane Sandy & thieft I lost my strain. Boy was I confused when I first hit the seedbanks looking to start over!!!! That's how I ended up on the forums. I have a BS in hort & wasn't about to be outdone in growing ANYTHING! All of this newness has given us old farmers two choices; either keep up with the new, or find seedbanks or friends who have kept the old strains going & available. Growing techniques between the old & the new are very different & don't always interchange well.
-- I'm thinking of starting a new thread, comparing the old to the new. I think we have things to discuss & to bring to the attention of the newer growers/breeders. I'll PM you when I get it started.

Last edited by catbuds; 12-15-2013 at 10:34 PM.
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Old 12-16-2013, 12:01 AM
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I think the reason they may be breeding them leafy is these new strains have so much trichrome production on the bud leaf. The mould issue is what brought about the new high tech exhust systems & fans. No matter what you breed, even animals, every improvement in one area sacrifices something in another. I totally agree with you on the fast turn over breeding. Back in the day, we could get F1 hybrids. Pretty uniform, but subsequent breedings threw phenos all over the board, no uniformity. So GOOD breeders would breed them out quite a few generations for an in-breed line for consistency. Now a days, if you want consistency, you have to breed them out yourself, or hunt your ass off for older established strains.
-- I put myself out of the loop for quite a while because I'd stayed with the same strain for over 20 yrs & had no idea what was going on in the new breeding. Between hurricane Sandy & thieft I lost my strain. Boy was I confused when I first hit the seedbanks looking to start over!!!! That's how I ended up on the forums. I have a BS in hort & wasn't about to be outdone in growing ANYTHING! All of this newness has given us old farmers two choices; either keep up with the new, or find seedbanks or friends who have kept the old strains going & available. Growing techniques between the old & the new are very different & don't always interchange well.
-- I'm thinking of starting a new thread, comparing the old to the new. I think we have things to discuss & to bring to the attention of the newer growers/breeders. I'll PM you when I get it started.
My experience is very similar to yours. I grew the same strains for fifteen years from original Hemp BC seed way back when Hemp BC first started and also from a Swiss seedbank now long gone. I lost everything in a particularly nasty bust and had to start all over again and had very similar experience to yours. You're dead right about the F1s and line breeding.

I remember when AK47 first was released and it was hermie as hell and all the old breeders started line breeding it and back crossing until it was a clean line. That sort of thing was common once.

I also have Plant Science qualifications and I see a lot of shortcuts these days compared to the traditional methods I was taught.

scrubdog
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Old 12-16-2013, 12:36 AM
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Short cuts often come back & bite you in the ass! Look what happened with genetic engineering. Airbourn pollen from a genetically engineered corn plant pollinating an adjacent farmers field results in sterile seed. I get my garden seeds from heirloom seed catalogs for that reason. Auto flower... ruderalis. Really!? Intentionally lower the THC? Now make F1 hybrids with one auto to another, over & over. Do they even know the percentage of ruderalis in the resulting strains? This is one of the reasons I jump in & praise people for maintaing the old genetics, landraces & such. I'm afraid thoughtless breeding will end up giving us a lot of crap with no potency. We will eventually need the old school genetics to start over with. Theres nothing wrong with creating new strains. But we'll be in trouble if people continue without putting time & thought behind all this new breeding. I'm not a fan of autos. I think they will lead to trouble down the road. Another thing. Medical marijuana. Its a great thing. The strains breed for lower THC & higher CBNs for pain is a good thing. But, my concern is the hobby breeder & the 'rush it all' breeder will start throwing those genetics into commercial breeding, combine that with autos, & here we go. Down hill on a greased ski slope! Like any other industry, things fall apart without quality control. That's what I like about MNS, they (& a few others) observe quality control. I'm just afraid that too many others are polluting the gene pool.
-- I think its time to take this to a new thread, as I've ended up taking this one way off topic. Whos thread is this again? So sorry!

Last edited by catbuds; 12-16-2013 at 12:38 AM.
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