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  #11  
Old 03-08-2017, 05:20 AM
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had several mums of fems, same thing as with regs ...
both can stay female, and both can turn hermie, some tho easier than others
until we have no "tool" for gen code inspection there is only one way to find out ... grow it, clone it, stress it or not, but use what you can, as long as you can, produce seeds in order to fix stuff

i did once a hermie deselection, its possible .. but time and space consuming, expect something in the range of 100:1 (well that was my size, of 300 n some seeds, only 3 real females came out, only 1 true male, the rest hermies)
you may wonder who is doing such crap ? ... the one who knows that: (bad x bad = good) , therefore its wise to "open up" any gentic possibility / combination, dont get me wrong that every bad cross is going to be good, no sir, thats the exception of this rule, but often enough the recessive genes will surprise you positively
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  #12  
Old 03-08-2017, 09:41 AM
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It is my understanding that through proper selection and breeding, hermy tendencies can be "bred out" to an extent at least.

This is how I explain to myself how the Chemdawg line became and remained so popular. If the hermy tendencies had not been minimized through breeding over the years, I believe the Chemdawg genetics (OG Kush, GSC, Diesels, etc.) would not have become so popular.

Yet, after so many years of intense breeding and so many people laying their hands on these genetics and growing them, they do still hermy from time to time and people have just accepted it as part of the line it seems.

But from what I read of its history, the original Chemdawg must have been quite hermy prone and it does not look like its descendants today are exhibiting the same strength of hermy tendencies.

So it must be possible to reduce it but I am skeptical that it can be bred out completely and would bet that crosses made with such genetics would require a lot of work and larger numbers to reliably end up with "stable" phenotypes.

I just imagine working with these types of genetics it would happen again and again where you cross with a new strain and would have to engage in long-term work to "stablize" that new strain.
While working with stable, non-hermy genetics, would eliminate that issue alltogether.


I have 1 or two more white OG in veg, the one that was strongest and started flowering a few weeks ago turned out male. Hope one of the remaining two turns out female so I can make up my own mind as to the value of Chemdawg genetics. From what I read, heard, etc. I would not be convinced that it is worth the trouble and "tainting" your gene pool with hermy genetics.

But I might change my mind once I tried some I grew myself.

The stuff I sampled in the Netherlands (Casey Jones, NYC Diesel and OG Kush) were nothing to write home about and I would not take those genetics for their hermy tendencies over say MRN genetics. Well the NYC Diesel was actually quite awesome but not any more than the Jack Herrer I sampled back then...

Last edited by Broseidon; 03-08-2017 at 09:44 AM.
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  #13  
Old 03-08-2017, 01:59 PM
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Default Feminized seeds

The advantages of feminized seeds are having the capacity to plant seeds and realizing that your plants will be females so you can have a simple yield become out from seeds.Make certain to take clones from the seedlings to figure out which ones are females or guys. Blossoming your mom plants and after that changing them back to the vegetative stage will worry them, and you don't need worried mother plants.
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  #14  
Old 03-08-2017, 07:42 PM
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Quote:
I just imagine working with these types of genetics it would happen again and again where you cross with a new strain and would have to engage in long-term work to "stablize" that new strain.
While working with stable, non-hermy genetics, would eliminate that issue alltogether.
its well known and documented that thai strains can keep their "balls" hidden up to F10 , and then bam suddenly some rezessive genes turn on and you are again at F1 - meaning hermies, of a once thought to be not hermie line
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  #15  
Old 03-08-2017, 10:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Broseidon View Post
It is my understanding that through proper selection and breeding, hermy tendencies can be "bred out" to an extent at least.

This is how I explain to myself how the Chemdawg line became and remained so popular. If the hermy tendencies had not been minimized through breeding over the years, I believe the Chemdawg genetics (OG Kush, GSC, Diesels, etc.) would not have become so popular.

Yet, after so many years of intense breeding and so many people laying their hands on these genetics and growing them, they do still hermy from time to time and people have just accepted it as part of the line it seems.

But from what I read of its history, the original Chemdawg must have been quite hermy prone and it does not look like its descendants today are exhibiting the same strength of hermy tendencies.

So it must be possible to reduce it but I am skeptical that it can be bred out completely and would bet that crosses made with such genetics would require a lot of work and larger numbers to reliably end up with "stable" phenotypes.

I just imagine working with these types of genetics it would happen again and again where you cross with a new strain and would have to engage in long-term work to "stablize" that new strain.
While working with stable, non-hermy genetics, would eliminate that issue alltogether.


I have 1 or two more white OG in veg, the one that was strongest and started flowering a few weeks ago turned out male. Hope one of the remaining two turns out female so I can make up my own mind as to the value of Chemdawg genetics. From what I read, heard, etc. I would not be convinced that it is worth the trouble and "tainting" your gene pool with hermy genetics.

But I might change my mind once I tried some I grew myself.

The stuff I sampled in the Netherlands (Casey Jones, NYC Diesel and OG Kush) were nothing to write home about and I would not take those genetics for their hermy tendencies over say MRN genetics. Well the NYC Diesel was actually quite awesome but not any more than the Jack Herrer I sampled back then...

G `day B

You make some big jumps in conclusions ?
1st if Chem Dog is so herm prone , why no Chem Dog S1s all over the country side ? Its been around as a clone for 25 years . Where are all the herm seeds ?
Also why do folks reverse it to make fems if they could just wait for it to herm ?

Who can actually confirm with out doubt OG Kush is a descendant of Chem Dog ?



EB .
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  #16  
Old 03-08-2017, 10:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deran View Post
its well known and documented that thai strains can keep their "balls" hidden up to F10 , and then bam suddenly some rezessive genes turn on and you are again at F1 - meaning hermies, of a once thought to be not hermie line
G `day Deran

Have you a source for that Thais hide their balls till F10 anecdote .
I`ve been around herb for 30 + years never heard that wives tale before .

F10 . How many gens do you think were grown over millenia in Thailand before the US GI`s came to Thailand on R n R and discovered Thai Sticks in the 70s ?

check this model . 1971 Vietnam War . US troops in SE Asia . FFWD to 2017 thats 45 years and 45 gens on from the Thai Stick the boys were smokin .
F10 .... They are up to F 999 + already

EB .

Last edited by Elmer Bud; 03-08-2017 at 11:02 PM.
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  #17  
Old 03-09-2017, 09:48 AM
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See that what keeps rubbing me the wrong way about you Elmstreet:
Your points of view are just as anecdotal as ours.

That's the thing about this whole business/hobby/industry: It has been underground and grayscale for decades and there is no hard evidence or actuall research. It is only now coming out with the process of legalization progressing but, who woulda thunk it, big pharma and business couldn't give two shits about feminized or not, hermy or not.
Their research (including government sponsored) is geared towards genome mapping of canna and analyzing the active components, how they interact with the endocannabinoid system etc. etc.

You may have never heard of that "wives tale" but deran has, from multiple sources, as have I.
That doesn't mean these sources are fool-proof or valid and I certainly cannot back those opinions/anecdotes up with personal experience (maybe deran can) but neither can you.


I preface my opinions with things like "from what I understand" or "from what I could gather" and the like, clearly marking it as hearsay and that I formed my opinion not on personal experience and hard evidence but by anecdotes and reports of others. Those are my only sources as of now.

But so are yours, with the difference being that you keep calling people out for "jumping at conclusions" etc. etc. while trying to pass your own anecdotes off as "hard evidence" or something, always leaning on the "I've been here longer" when in doubt. Which is funny in itself because it could well be that I could be your dad age-wise but I digress.


Chemdawg is another line I have 0 personal experience with but did extensive research on. And while all the anecdotes about Chemdawg are certainly not uniform and stories vary greatly, one of the few consensus I could find was that no-where and I mean no-where I read about Chemdawg did it not say that it was a hermy prone strain.

My assumption is that it has been selected, bred and "stabilized" in its own line (for example by bad karma Rezdog) and also in its outcrosses (Diesels, Cookies, OG Kushes).
Still, hermies show up here and there and are something people growing these strains just "learned to live with" and don't even see it as a sign of instability or a drawback or anything. Many seem to never have known non-hermy genetics and it seems just to be a part of canna growing to them. You can look at various youtube channels or grow reports to see this happening. It's usually just a "yeah these 2 hermied so I culled them, no biggie".


Still, through all the hype and work, it seems that the hermy tendency has been so minimized that it indeed is not such a big deal as most strains derived from Chemdawg do not even seem to show their hermy tendencies in a 10 pack but chances are good all 10 will come out regular.


However, that does not detract from the "fact" (guess anecdotal evidence is a better term) that these hermy tendencies can show up way down the line.
Maybe in 10 years or 20, the next generation of American growers will be left with only hermy gear because Chemdawg genetics continued their takeover and were all that was left to work with and the recessive hermy genes rear their ugly heads 10 years from now when new crosses are made.

Something of the sort....
Makes me sad thinking about and can easily be avoided.

Also stop to think once in a while who would benefit from such scenarios. Not the little hobby grower/breeder, that much is certain.
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  #18  
Old 03-09-2017, 08:00 PM
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FACT: ALL cannabis can produce intersex characteristics. OPINION: intersex characteristics are normal in cannabis but it's preferable to breed away from that norm.
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  #19  
Old 03-09-2017, 08:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elmer Bud View Post
G `day B

You make some big jumps in conclusions ?
1st if Chem Dog is so herm prone , why no Chem Dog S1s all over the country side ? Its been around as a clone for 25 years . Where are all the herm seeds ?
Also why do folks reverse it to make fems if they could just wait for it to herm ?

Who can actually confirm with out doubt OG Kush is a descendant of Chem Dog ?



EB .
A lot of that West coast crap is herm crazy. A friend worked for one of the big guys in Oregon came back with bags of seeds he found in weed tried to give me some I'm like fuck no lol.

Sure the name will sell itself for a lot of people but I hate seeds in my weed you miss one seed the bowl/Joint is ruined.

Plus I haven't had better out west.
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  #20  
Old 03-09-2017, 10:03 PM
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G `day Bro

Well the sexual expression of cannabis would be a good place to start .

SENGBUSCH HEMP
CLASSIFICATION SCALE


~ Sexual Expression

Then some study re the genes that control sex .

SOME ASPECTS OF SEX DETERMINISM IN HEMP


Science not bro science .


re Herms in Thai and SE Asian lines .
Real males are rare . No need to wait till f10 the herms are fixed from many of years of breeding .

Can you point me to the info you say is common knowledge re Thai plants not herming till F10 ? Like I said they are already F?

pre 1980s most buds were seeded . 40 years we have had sensimilla . Compared to 1000s of years of herms .

Thanks for sharin

EB .

Last edited by Elmer Bud; 03-09-2017 at 10:25 PM.
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