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Old 07-15-2011, 06:00 PM
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Default The Secret of the 2 inch Bonsai Mother: A Pictoral Guide

This is an excerpt from http://www.mrnice.nl/forum/4-talk-sh...tle-space.html thread where it appears as an appendix.


The article stands alone, and illustrates a very powerful and simple technique for propagating mothers and fathers, so I thought it could use its own thread here in Mothers and Fathers.


This is a very simple guide to successfully keeping a two inch Bonsai mother plant. This technique can actually be adapted for any sized container bonsai's typically being propagated and kept in up to 6 inch containers. The advantage of the 2 inch bonsai is simple. Propagating a Bonsai in a 2 inch container means that one can keep up to 36 Bonsai mothers per square foot.
A single 2 inch bonsai typically yeilds 5 to 10 cuttings per cycle, depending on what size the desired cutting is to be.
2 inch Bonsai mothers can typically be used for around five or six cycles, but I would recommend replacing all mothers with fresh clones of themselves, on an annual basis, just to help insure their health and survivability, long term.

This guide is going to follow the progress of a single male clone, started in a 2 inch container, over a period of around 6 months. With this particular male there will never be any cuttings taken., however it will still be pruned according to schedule. This helps illustrate a very important point, with bonsai mother propagation: It does not matter if you are taking every possible clone you can, or not a single clone at all, when you prune the bonsai, you prune it completely. For example if Joe only needs three cuttings and the bonsai has eight good branches, even though he is only using 3 cuttings, he still wants to prune all 8 branches on the plant. Even in this case when there is no cuttings to be taken whatsoever, this bonsai must be pruned and tended according to the same schedule or else it will atrophy and eventually die.







This plant pictured has been rooted in this container for around 2 months, it is almost 2 feet tall and is starting to atrophy slightly from being rootbound. It is time to prune this bonsai for the first time.




We start by pruning all the branches. If we were taking cuttings we would do so now,
taking as many tops as we needed for clones and discarding the rest.
Usually one does not take cuttings in this first phase.

Be sure to top all secondary branches, and top the entire plant as low as possible,
and be sure to leave at least one or two sets of nodes on each branch that is topped.
Try to make sure that all branches and the main top are all at the same height,
any where from 3-6 inches on average depending on the individual plant.






The next step is to prune the rootball, we start by cutting 25% off of each side.
It is best to use a sharp or serrated knife. After that we cut 50% off of the bottom of the plant.






When we are finished pruning the rootball it will look like this.







Once the rootball has been been pruned we transplant it back into the same container that it came from, with fresh dirt.
For at least the first week it is transplanted, and until there is new growth seen, the bonsai should not be fertilized.
I usually soak the plants with a solution of superthrive and maxicrop, right after transplanting,
I do this with all transplants, and while it is not necessary I find that it helps.

Once we see new growth forming we can start with a 10- 25% solution of veg fertilizer depending on how sensitive the plant is.
And once strong growth is witnessed, move up to 50%. In my experience 50% solution works just fine,
if the plant doesn't green up after a week or two, a stronger solution can be used for one watering.



After 2 weeks to a month the plant will look like this picture.

If you need to, this will be the first opportunity to get a harvest of cuttings,
at this stage one can get around 5 cuttings per bonsai mother.


Now the plant has also had time to grow out a bunch of small little branches,
and once all cuttings have been taken, the plant is pruned as low as possible, again.







Once pruned back it will look something like this. The rootball was not shaved at this pruning,
but will need to be shaved on the next pruning.

This begins the dormant phase of the bonsai. The plant can be held for 2 to 3 months in this phase
before it will need to be cropped and have the rootball shaved again.

Generally, the plant should be pruned back, and the rootball shaved again 3 weeks before cuttings are needed.






It has been around three months since this bonsai was pruned. It is starting to atrophy a bit.

Now it will be topped. And its rootball shaved.




The Bonsai was topped carefully so that branches are all of uniform height.
Once the rootball has been shaved and it is transplanted back into its container,
it will be ready to harvest cuttings in 2-4 weeks depending on the strain.



Again, when we shave the rootball we cut 25% off of each side.






Once we have cut 25% off each side, we cut 50% off the bottom.






When we are done pruning the rootball it will look like this. Note how much dirt has been removed.







Now that it is transplanted back into its original container it will be treated the same way as last time.
In 3 -4 weeks it will be ready to harvest cuttings off of.
Now that it is fully mature bonsai it should have around 10 small uniform cuttings that can be taken off of it.




3 weeks later, the Bonsai is ready to harvest around 10+ cuttings off of.

Now generally the grower will keep 1 bonsai for every 5 cuttings he needs.

This might not seem like a lot but lets think about it for a second:

If a grower needs 45 cuttings, this means he needs 9 bonsai females,
well these 9 bonsai females will take up about one fourth of a square foot of space.
This means we can harvest a minimum of 180 cuttings per square foot of 2 inch bonsai mothers,
and realistically with most strains it is probably more like 360 cuttings per square foot.

Also, we can store 36 mothers per square foot with this method.


This Bonsai is around 6 months old. It can go through another 3 or 4 of these cycles before it will need to be replaced with a fresh one.
Generally speaking Bonsai mothers should be replaced once every year.
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The Bonsai Sultan Method: Typological Breeding for the Non Breeder, Beginner, or Pro with Little Space.
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Last edited by joshuahazen; 07-15-2011 at 06:18 PM.
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Old 07-15-2011, 06:13 PM
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Great post Josh,I now see clearly what I need to do to maintain a bonsai mum. I was dipping in and out of your other thread but found myself getting bogged down with all the info. Thanks for posting this guide!
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Old 07-15-2011, 07:34 PM
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one thing ive not seen in other sites where i have read about bonsai moms is reliability of the clones to not hermie

has anyone actually grown out clones from a bonsai mom ? and if so did the clones hermie ? it seems like way too much stress on the mother plant , to me it seems fine for a house plant but for canabis it seems way too stressfull

for 20 or 30 years or more we have been told not to over prune a plant or we will stress it out bad , so this is why i ask if anyone has used this method and were the clones ok ?

i only ask because im curious , not because i want to try it , i have lotsa head space so my 7 foot mom wouldnt take anymore floor space then the required bonsai moms id need to produce enough clones , my last 7 foot mom wouldnt look different after taking 200 clones , could have double or tripled those numbers and hardly noticed it lol

great idea this bonsai for those with highth restrictions though i got to admit that

peace
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Old 07-15-2011, 08:54 PM
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iv kept bonsi moms for 4 yrs without any noticeable loss of health in the cuttings but i wasnt constantly takin clones as i only keep bonsi mom to preserve the strain, then when i wat to do a crop of said strain i just pot up into 6l pot and in 3 to 4 weeks iv got 30 plus clones on her..

why you want to use bonsi to supply you with clones over a regular mom i dnt understand tho, instead of needing say 2 normal moms to provide 100 cutts you need countless bonsis which if busted doesnt look good, suppose its ok if your legal..

to me the only reason to keep bonsi moms is to preserve the strain so you dnt need a whole ligh per mom, instead you can keep 30 plus strain per light... but even then its still 30 plants if busted..

i what im tring to do to minimise the plant count yet still have the same amount of strains is grafting say 6 diff strains onto 1 doner plant.. i knw the clones will graft onto the done plant as iv already done that but i havent flowered out any cuts taken frm said plant so i dnt knw yet if the dna of the plant stays true or wether its changed due being grafted onto the donor plant..

il start a thread once iv got time and room to flower some clones frm the grafted plants... c
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Old 07-15-2011, 09:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b0b_b1tch1n View Post
one thing ive not seen in other sites where i have read about bonsai moms is reliability of the clones to not hermie

has anyone actually grown out clones from a bonsai mom ? and if so did the clones hermie ? it seems like way too much stress on the mother plant , to me it seems fine for a house plant but for canabis it seems way too stressfull

for 20 or 30 years or more we have been told not to over prune a plant or we will stress it out bad , so this is why i ask if anyone has used this method and were the clones ok ?

i only ask because im curious , not because i want to try it , i have lotsa head space so my 7 foot mom wouldnt take anymore floor space then the required bonsai moms id need to produce enough clones , my last 7 foot mom wouldnt look different after taking 200 clones , could have double or tripled those numbers and hardly noticed it lol

great idea this bonsai for those with highth restrictions though i got to admit that

peace

In my experience, clones taken from bonsais act the same as clones taken from ordinary plants. They are smaller, but this does not effect the final outcome, the process may take an additional few days, but the truth is, I have never noticed a difference. I usually get around a 90% success rate give or take, in fact the rate is probably more effected by type of cut, then if its bonsai or full size.

I always take cuts in dirt.

Plants that hermie easy under stress should be eliminated in my opinion.

I have never heard of a stable female cut throwing hermies when it was grown as a bonsai, not with bonsai clones, or even if you cut the rootball of the bonsai mom herself and bud her out. Never.

whenever a plant shows itself to be a hermaphrodite, even in the least, it should not be bred with.
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Hi Friends,
Check it out:
http://www.mrnice.nl/forum/showthread.php?t=5345
The Bonsai Sultan Method: Typological Breeding for the Non Breeder, Beginner, or Pro with Little Space.
_______________________________________________
"The secret of improved plant breeding, apart from scientific knowledge, is love." --Luther Burbank

Last edited by joshuahazen; 07-15-2011 at 10:05 PM.
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Old 07-15-2011, 10:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr cheese View Post
iv kept bonsi moms for 4 yrs without any noticeable loss of health in the cuttings but i wasnt constantly takin clones as i only keep bonsi mom to preserve the strain, then when i wat to do a crop of said strain i just pot up into 6l pot and in 3 to 4 weeks iv got 30 plus clones on her..

why you want to use bonsi to supply you with clones over a regular mom i dnt understand tho, instead of needing say 2 normal moms to provide 100 cutts you need countless bonsis which if busted doesnt look good, suppose its ok if your legal..

to me the only reason to keep bonsi moms is to preserve the strain so you dnt need a whole ligh per mom, instead you can keep 30 plus strain per light... but even then its still 30 plants if busted..

i what im tring to do to minimise the plant count yet still have the same amount of strains is grafting say 6 diff strains onto 1 doner plant.. i knw the clones will graft onto the done plant as iv already done that but i havent flowered out any cuts taken frm said plant so i dnt knw yet if the dna of the plant stays true or wether its changed due being grafted onto the donor plant..

il start a thread once iv got time and room to flower some clones frm the grafted plants... c
That is a good point Cheese, to know the real advantage you have to read the Bonsai Sultan Method, and understand the context under which this technique was developed.

And certainly you are right about one large bonsai being the way to go in most cases if you need mass cuttings, and this technique can be adapted for a 6 inch container which would produce at least 5 times as many cuttings or more than a 2 inch.


However it does have all kinds of other applications outside the bonsai sultan method.

It allows the breeder to keep a large catalogue of mother and father clones in a very small space.

It also allows the conventional grower who may be using a whole room for cloning and storing mothers, to possibly free that room up and use it as a second flowering room.

It also allows the clone collector, to keep many mothers in a very small space.

It allows the average small personal grower, to keep a large number of mother clones, 36 for example, in a 1foot X1footX2feet tall box, powered by a single standard 23 watt daylight flourescent bulb, incandescent replacement style.

Or if he is doing a small closet operation for personal medical use, he could could keep 5 or 6mother plants in that tiny box and still have room for up to 29 or 30 cuttings in the same box, using just a 23 watt bulb, which he could then transfer into large pots and put in his main room.

It has all kinds of applications but mainly it is the cornerstone of the Bonsai Sultan breeding method, which allows anyone to transform his growing operation into a high tech breeding operation without sacrificing any yield in any of his current sensimilla rooms, which never get compromised or seeded.
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Hi Friends,
Check it out:
http://www.mrnice.nl/forum/showthread.php?t=5345
The Bonsai Sultan Method: Typological Breeding for the Non Breeder, Beginner, or Pro with Little Space.
_______________________________________________
"The secret of improved plant breeding, apart from scientific knowledge, is love." --Luther Burbank

Last edited by joshuahazen; 07-15-2011 at 10:08 PM.
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Old 07-15-2011, 11:13 PM
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Cannabis recovers from stress fairly quickly.
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Old 07-16-2011, 01:26 AM
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excellent write up !!!

I keep bonsais same way as you, except mine might be in 2.5 inch containers, might be 2 inch though..

can I ask what brand of nutrient you are using? I keep mine in coco fiber as watering is much easier then dried out peat.., depending on season ( summer ) they will need water everyday, but cool temp can go 3 days. I am using the new GH floraduo line with some recipes I do. I would like to know more on the nutes you use though, as I'm always temped to try some new cuts into peat with the bio sevia line.


well once again, this is awesome, more people need to employ this method. I don't know how many times I hear people having to try and re-veg a plant because it turned out good, when they could have done this from the beginning... this also allows so many plants in such a little space.

more people should keep "bonsai" moms


also to note: if you guys do this with DJ strains, don't feed much in the beginning until you look on the side walls of the pot ( just bend the pot to have a look ) has roots established. DJ plants grow very slow when cut to a bonsai from the original mom. clones are fine though as I've noted. I've noticed other strains "root" and grow out 3 times faster then a DJ plant! also for more info I do this with my "original" plant, as I grow a plant to male/ female.. top the plant let it bush out then take cuts, and then couple days later turn it into a bonsai, this method is great as the uniformity of the branches will be the same, as it hasn't got the alternating stage let, so you are left with a very even plant..

Last edited by pepper; 07-16-2011 at 01:35 AM.
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Old 07-18-2011, 05:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pepper View Post
excellent write up !!!

I keep bonsais same way as you, except mine might be in 2.5 inch containers, might be 2 inch though..

can I ask what brand of nutrient you are using?
I keep mine in coco fiber as watering is much easier then dried out peat.., depending on season ( summer ) they will need water everyday, but cool temp can go 3 days. I am using the new GH floraduo line with some recipes I do. I would like to know more on the nutes you use though, as I'm always temped to try some new cuts into peat with the bio sevia line.


well once again, this is awesome, more people need to employ this method. I don't know how many times I hear people having to try and re-veg a plant because it turned out good, when they could have done this from the beginning... this also allows so many plants in such a little space.

more people should keep "bonsai" moms


also to note: if you guys do this with DJ strains, don't feed much in the beginning until you look on the side walls of the pot ( just bend the pot to have a look ) has roots established. DJ plants grow very slow when cut to a bonsai from the original mom. clones are fine though as I've noted. I've noticed other strains "root" and grow out 3 times faster then a DJ plant! also for more info I do this with my "original" plant, as I grow a plant to male/ female.. top the plant let it bush out then take cuts, and then couple days later turn it into a bonsai, this method is great as the uniformity of the branches will be the same, as it hasn't got the alternating stage let, so you are left with a very even plant..
It doesn't really matter what size container is used, the principle is the same. That is why I specify 25% off of each side, and 50% off the bottom, because the principle works whether it is a 2 inch container, or a 6 inch container and everything in between. I specify 2 inch because I have found, that is the smallest container that works reliably, and anything larger than 6 inch, starts to be questionable whether it is small enough to be called a bonsai in the first place. The pruning/shaving rootball technique also works well with full sized mothers if someone wants to get a quick spurt of new growth and renewed vigor from an older mother.

It can allow someone to get many of the benefits of transplanting without jumping up to a larger container. Pruning back green growth significantly is very important(at least 50%), and must be done at the same time the rootball is cut or the plant will suffer very bad shock and can even die.

As far as Nutrients are concerned:

EcoGrow for veg, and EcoBloom for budding, works the best in my experience: it is a non chelated fertilizer, so there is less salt build up in the rootball. Sativas and plants that are fertilizer sensitive, tend to do much better with this brand as well, and is even more gentle than many organic based fertilizers.

General hydroponics is also a good brand, but not nearly as good.

Supplements incude Maxicrop and Superthrive, they are very helpful but not necessary.

I use maxicrop during the week after transplant and for sprouting seeds.
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Hi Friends,
Check it out:
http://www.mrnice.nl/forum/showthread.php?t=5345
The Bonsai Sultan Method: Typological Breeding for the Non Breeder, Beginner, or Pro with Little Space.
_______________________________________________
"The secret of improved plant breeding, apart from scientific knowledge, is love." --Luther Burbank

Last edited by joshuahazen; 07-18-2011 at 10:04 PM.
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Old 07-18-2011, 09:10 PM
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hey joshuahaze this is such a nice addition of information to the site. i always wondered how the bonsai's were done. thank you.
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