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Old 10-26-2015, 01:51 PM
inspecteur clouseau's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 56
Default The mistery case of the sex swap vixens

Dear coleagues,

Here is the story and it's implications:

I have been running landrace nepalese for a good few years, one a common pokhara region and the other a highland sativas from around mustang( got the bud in Lho Mantang) the highland being a most intresting plant. both were kept in mother/clones version. I had no indoor place for flowering but could manage reveg/cloning in the winter to keep them alive, with the year old mum being put out with a few cuttings for anual crop. This system, as rudimentary as it is, has been working perfect for years.

This year, I had introduced a mango haze coming straight from the bag, a sensi super skunk and a couple of slh by gh given by a friend.

The mango hase was started very early,under light, then put out in, err, end february, went in flower( spring harvest in the true sense!) got seeded with a mango male, and after seed colection was reveged with natural light and is now in full bloom after giving lots of cutings.

in september, all but the mango and the super skunk started showing male flowers. just male flowers, no female at all....

I came across a neighbourg who grow unrelated sativas and his two plants had gone the same way....
I now have a tray of small flowering males that really are female and the last genes of my fav plant....
Looks like the end of an era..

What the hell did happen there?

First track is obviously stress, But it happened to ALL of the mothers, clones, some having diferent history and grown finally in different places....
The Nepalli where reveged very late last year, such is the case every years, but this year was a tad extreme (I mean, seriously, after 14 weeks). But such was not the case of the other strains.
slh is obviously a fem, so male flowers are a likely event, but a full reversal?
Mns and sensi strains were totally unafected, yet grown along.

Has anybody a clue?

Regards to you all.

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Old 10-26-2015, 09:09 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,387

An environmental trigger may have caused them to do that…they may have been stable in previous conditions but something may have sent them off.
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Old 10-27-2015, 05:21 PM
inspecteur clouseau's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 56

Thanks Betterhaff, we had indeed two sumer month that were fairly hot this year, with nights sometime as hot or hoter than days. that would be an unusual climate for a highland sativa all right. since locations were the same, I cant think of something else.
Now the problem is, should I use them to polinate some females and see if the offsprings are of some interest.....
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Old 12-20-2016, 06:21 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 321

Inspecteur, might as well give them a try. If they all turn male, shucks, bro, that is a misstery. Or a mistery.

I have some ME land races also. Malana, Ukurl, Sinai & Kumoani. Great smoke, but these sativas take forever to bud & the buds are small. I see why they are used to make charas.

Good fortune to what ever you do with these. Getting all males is a real buzzkill in every sinse of the word. At least you have some pollen for future Xing.

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Old 12-28-2016, 10:35 PM
deran's Avatar
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Posts: 895

the genes are old, more than a year ...
often female plants produce male flowers in order to replicate themselves (their only meaning of life is reproduction) , of course .. the older the plant (dna code) the higher the probability that this will happen (more often)

as somebody wrote, its likely to be stress in combination with age, some female dna codes can be kept 20 years and older without male "interference" , tho many throw them out when they have become about a year old .... plants do have internal clocks, not just for the daily photoperiod, but also for its age, and cannabis is an annual, tho its not uncommon (if conditions are good) that it can grow into a 2 or 3 year old plant (before cells get too old and water transport inside is screwed up) ... anyways, you clone her before for the backup ... mothers are often kept about a year before they get re-swapped with a cutting of its own ...

growers often witness this flowering impulse and have sometimes difficulties bringing her back to pure veg state ....
rootboundness (no space for roots) , artificial lighting and bad diets are the triggers for the hormones to go crazy and induce flowering as well as bad conditions in general, anything that is stress for the plant .... (btw while we are here at it, NEVER - i repeat - NEVER ever make a motherplant of something that had flowers on it, has been blooming or got revegged - clone only from plants that were constantly in their veg mode on 18h or 24h from seed)

so what to do ?
give her a big pot for the roots (eventually you can do a cutback of the roots (30% - 50%), while i wouldnt suggest that with these plants that have problems, thats something for plants without any signs of problems as the roots are also "filled up" with hormones, removing them is always an act of un-balancing the internal hormones and can lead to even bigger problems, especially when your hormones inside are already out of balance - cutting roots in your case would be something not to be done at all ... its also a science of its own, the part underneath the soil (roots) must support the upper green part, you cant trim roots off of a 4 meter plant so that it has space within a 1 gallon pot and expect that this tiny root system is able to supply the rest ... no way -> death by draught
non stop lighting, if your plants are on 18 hours, prolong the time up to 24 hours - no dark cycle - sometimes just this is enough to revert plants to full veg; often its not enough ... then you have to be patient until warm weather arrives or you have to travel with your plants ... lol ... many solved the 24 hours - still flowering - problem by putting their plants into real sunlight , they still get 24 hours of light, but a portion of it 4 - 8 - 16 hours (you decide whats possible at your location) is true sun-light and this will help bringing em back

and least but not last, the growing conditions should be of course (nearly) perfect , no big PH swings, no big EC swings, no extreme values, a balanced diet - only base nutes which are nitrogen-rich, no "special" additives like boosters or other chemicals like pgr`s or hormones like superthrive etc ...
keep it basic and simple ...

if that everything wont be of help, and cuts of the mother go into flowering and the mother too, then there is only 1 solution (ok 2 solutions) ....
1 - do tissue culture and re-propagate your mother (unlikely)
2 - select a male cross it , as this is the only way of preserving said dna code ...

sometimes, although you have done everything right n proper, the dna code is just meant to become "that" old and to bloom out ... and you cant do nothing about it .. just like autoflowering plants ...

and i see 1 more thing thats important (to me) - you are working with landraces, those need -per se- a different, special kind of approach, as close as possible to their native surroundings ... they have never before seen sodium light in their history, they have never been kept longer than 8 months (1 outdoor season)

you are wondering about working on with your genetics ... 1 thing is clear, they do have the info for males (bananas) inside their code ... tho we dont know if they produce pollen at all (some sacks are just empty and sterile) and we dont know if the pollen is viable (some sacks have lots of pollen that wont pollinate a female, also sterile) , if sterile .. treat it like a real female ... no problems at all lol
but if its not sterile, you should overthink your intentions ....
at least a try is a must, in deselecting intersex plants if some would occur, but its also possible that non hermies show up - also a great solution ...
maybe they show only up when beeing older than year, also no problem ...

your worst case scenario might look like this: you werent successful with your breeding/crossing goals, but at least you have a ton of healthy cannabis seeds to either eat or to throw em out of the open car window ... lol

just try it, cause otherwise you will never know and might miss your own grail ...
forever again & again forever
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Old 01-01-2017, 02:02 AM
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deran, U said "(btw while we are here at it, NEVER - i repeat - NEVER ever make a motherplant of something that had flowers on it, has been blooming or got revegged - clone only from plants that were constantly in their veg mode on 18h or 24h from seed)"

Why is it not good to make a Mom from a flowered plant or a re-vegged plant?

I made some clones from a re veg Mom that had flowered & they were OK. Didn't do any Xing with the clones, just did em for buds.



PS edit--I also did some clones from a plant a little past the 3rd week of flowering. Got them to root real nice, but so far that's all. 3rd week of flower is too late for clones is my experience. Not recommended. I did the clones to test out some home made soil clone chambers. The chambers worked very well, but the babies rooted & have stopped growing. I cloned from some Point Of No Return ladies.
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Last edited by medMUser; 01-01-2017 at 02:10 AM. Reason: add info
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