Success formulas for back pain

musashi

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Staff member
Many people have had great success using cannabis compounds in the treatment of pain. I have used topicals and tinctures for awhile now and still feel there is so much more to learn. That said I would welcome comments on what has worked best for you. I specifically want to focus on topicals and back pain. Is there anything new out there? I am looking for the following:

1) strain used
2) medium (carrier) used- coco oil, olive oil, alcohol, glycerin, other.
3) strength- mg THC per teaspoon of canna oil? Grams per cup of carrier?
4) essential oils used? Which ones, strength?
5) other additives used for pain relief?
6) other information that would be helpful in treating back pain?

For instance, I have used Nordle, Medicine Man, Ortega. Initially thinking Nordle wouldn’t work as well as Medman, I was pleasantly surprised! I will be doing salves based on CBD Mango, Medihaze, Shark Shock soon! I prefer coconut oil for my salves because of expense, absorption and tolerability. I prefer wintergreen oil (methyl salicylate) for its analgesic effect. Not for little kids though. I use birch when I don’t have wintergreen. I am really interested in the EO’s used as I believe these potentiate the medicine in a good way. Thanks in advance for your help!

Aloha nui
M
 
I didn't realize you could use cannabis oils in this way. As a topical ointment.
Have you had a look at emu oil as an additive?
It is used by professional football teams here, as an anti-inflammatory, and a lot of older people swear by it as an aid to arthritis.
Eucalyptus oil is interesting too.
In Aryuvedic medicine it is associated with base (sacral) chakra. And offers a lot of different effects.
The eucalyptol terpene found in cannabis is associated to euphoric feelings.
Thanks for the thread
 
Last edited:
Many people have had great success using cannabis compounds in the treatment of pain. I have used topicals and tinctures for awhile now and still feel there is so much more to learn. That said I would welcome comments on what has worked best for you. I specifically want to focus on topicals and back pain. Is there anything new out there? I am looking for the following:

1) strain used
2) medium (carrier) used- coco oil, olive oil, alcohol, glycerin, other.
3) strength- mg THC per teaspoon of canna oil? Grams per cup of carrier?
4) essential oils used? Which ones, strength?
5) other additives used for pain relief?
6) other information that would be helpful in treating back pain?

For instance, I have used Nordle, Medicine Man, Ortega. Initially thinking Nordle wouldn’t work as well as Medman, I was pleasantly surprised! I will be doing salves based on CBD Mango, Medihaze, Shark Shock soon! I prefer coconut oil for my salves because of expense, absorption and tolerability. I prefer wintergreen oil (methyl salicylate) for its analgesic effect. Not for little kids though. I use birch when I don’t have wintergreen. I am really interested in the EO’s used as I believe these potentiate the medicine in a good way. Thanks in advance for your help!

Aloha nui
M

I have tried many of strains for muscle pain, nervepain and for muscle spasms. Thc for daytime and now its possible to buy full spectrum cbd oil from a store, so in the evening something like that for body numbness and more pain control and for good night sleep. White Rhino also help for my broken rip bone at least good couple of years ago. I have also tried many on others treatments for my symptoms. Gentle massage with hot and cold stones, could release muscles. Ice cold pool water treatment 1min soften surface muscles. A Good healthy food(fruits, fish, fullcorn carb) no alcohol, no topacco. Avoid opiodes. Exercise(before Thc use makes more dopamines and other brain "drugs"available) and rest good. And lots of stuff from a physiotherapiests. Hope this will help!
 
contact the people who made/make something called Michigan Organic Rub ask if they are willing to share the recipe they use; or find a picture of the ingredient label. I was dating a woman who was suffering from nerve damage after having survived a grease fire. she said that was the 1st topical to actually work for her.
 
musashi could you say a little more about the basil, and marjoram?, or is there a link to info regarding this. I grow these for cooking, and was unaware. This is one of the 3 points in my body causing issue.

I did have a Dr Bonner's hand cream lavender if it makes a difference. I have a lot of documented nerve issues, and whatever the heck they used. It worked for my hands. See pain is one thing to me, but when my body stops working properly. That is hard to take, and this hand lotion. It really helped...Ns
 
I like the idea of topicals to be able to medicate without imbibing - without getting high.
I avoided topicals for many years as I found many people were using DMSO in their products and that's just dangerous, in my mind.

But then I came across someone in the ONAC who micronized a cannabis + essential oil coconut solution. He used a sonicator to micronize the solution down to about 4 micrograms. With this, a topical application passes the skin/blood barrier and delivers the medicines very efficiently - like immediate relief, compared to the 40 minute diffusion with edibles. Granted, this still requires lab sterility, but once its made, any later contamination will not be chelated into the body as would happen with DMSO
 
Back pain is a bitch. I have had severe back pain since turning 30. I had to give up tennis because of it. Though I can still snow ski. I have declined back fusions and other surgeries. They all result in more complicatins in time. So I have an indoor hot tub in my house here in the back sun room. I also make lots of topicals here with all my leftover buds and with any strain that I do not like or that I am not interested in smoking, as well as a variety of cold sifted hash powder. I got the original recipes from my niece but I have changed them a lot. Her recipes call for decarbing the weed, but I want more acid forms and more raw forms of active cannabinoids and terpenes and flavinoids. So I do not decarb, other than drying and curing my weed before making it into cold sifted hash using a converted ice cream machine in a chest freezer. That works great for making hashish.

I do not know about the best strains, though I have been told that Alaska Thunderfuck was the best for pain relief by several older stoners that I have come across in my time. I have tried to find a valid source of Alaska Thunderfuck beans for many years, but it seems to be a myth like Greek Kalamata, Pune Buddah or Zacatecas Purple, and is lost to time. There was apparently a fire involved and exactly where it was grown and who had the real deal remains a mystery. Some say that the real ATF is Matanuska Tundra, or Matanuska Thunderfuck. I hvae given up trying to find any of those beans. Personally I go for plants with a particular tested cannabinoid and terpene profile rather than strain name. Some terpenes are analgesic and/or psychotropic. Also you can get pure isolate forms of some terpenes and cannabinoids. Some cannabinoids and most terpenes are available in essential oil form. Some cannabinoids are hard to grow or get, as they are rare in the strains available out there.

THC, CBG and CBD and their acid forms have the most research regarding being effective in pain relief. THC is an analog to human anandamide (ananda is the Sanskrit word for bliss). THC is the main psychoactive cannabinoid, but is also an analgesic and anti-inflammatory. Growing CBD can be a challenge. I tried growing hemp strains 2 years ago, and they are early and funky compared to Marijuana strains. So I use pure CBD isolate crystals from Colorado (mail order) which is pretty scheap and 99.9% pure. CBD works best when THC is present. CBD has little binding affinity for either CB1 or CB2 receptors, but it is capable of antagonizing them in the presence of THC. So CBD alone is not so great, but with it is a better analgesi. CBD is also an anti-inflammatory without THC. CBG is the latest studied cannabinoid on the block, and has been found to be extremely effective at relieving pain and inflammation. CBG is not that common in mature cannabis though. CBGa is the master cannabinoid from which most other cannabinoids are derived from in the plant. You can buy pure CBG crystals now, but they are expensive. Similarly cannabinoids like CBC are rare and very expensive in pure form, so I grow several strains that have tested higher in CBC, like Maui Waui Cherry Bomb. CBC will not crystalize but it is available as a more or less pure oil now. CBC is known to intensify CBN and THC, and likely intensifies the effects of other cannabinoids. Some report that it is psychotropic like THC, even alone. this is likely as CBC activates the release of anandamide, which THC is an analog of. CBC has limited testing and little research, but some studies show it to be effective for pain relief in arthritis. CBC binds with the 'pain perception' receptors TRPV1 and TRPA1, which when activated, release anandamide. CBC also appears to inhibit the uptake of anandamide, allowing it to remain longer in the bloodstream. CBC combined with THC also has effective anti-inflammatory indications. See why I grow CBC strains? Now there is also CBN, the cannabinoid that THC breaks down to over time. Tests showed that about 10% of THC in weed will convert to CBN after a year on the shelf. For that reason I keep old weed and hash around. Anyway, CBN has been shown to greatly reduce migraine pain. CBN is also said to act like Valium as a muscle relaxant. 5 mg of CBN is said to be the equivalent of taking 10 mg of Valium but with few psychoactive effects. For me CBN puts me to sleep. Old weed is good for bedtime when I am jacked up. So I think that is the Big 6 when it comes to cannabinoids. The more, the better!

Terpenes are also known to be effective for pain relief. Particularly beta-caryophyllene, linalool, myrcene, limonene, and bisabolol. These can all be bought as essential oils on their own, and also occur in many Mj strains. They are also found in other plants. There are many other terpenes in Mj and other plants as well. For example, I also have a large potted Turkish Bay tree here. The culinary kind. The local Oregon Myrtle/California Bay trees are related and about twice as strong. Both can also be used for culinary purposes and for topicals. I add Bay diced leaves to some of my topical batches in rather strong form. Like 20 leaves in a batch. Use fresh leaves, old stale bay eaves in the stores are pretty sad. That can be said for a lot of this stuff, except when you want CBN. Then you need old weed.

So that may not answer your question though. I grow multiple strains every year, and so I tend to dump in a lot of different bud and hash and some other stuff into my topical salves, along with CBD isolate. The basis of my salves are a combination of oils and fats, mainly based on palm oil. Palm oil is cheap and it works well as a base. It is in a lot of skin care products. It also sets hard at room temperature, so I do not have to deal with oils which tend to drip. I also use shea butter, as it is softer and works as a good carrier of compounds to be absorbed into your skin. I also use coco butter for the smell and skin feel, and bees wax to get the right consistency of the final salve. I test the oil when it is still melted and dip and ice cube in it to test consistency. If it is too fluid, I add more bees wax to firm it up. So say 10 parts palm oil, 2 part Shea butter, 1 part coco butter, 0.2-1 part bees wax. I melt this in a pan on the stove and add crushed bay leaves, fresh or crumbled cured Mj colas, hash powder, and maybe some old weed from the back room. I may also add turmeric, ginger, cinnamon stick or several other herbs and spices. Every batch is different. Then I turn the stove off and let the plants steep, and every few hours I will re-melt the oil if it solidifies. After a few days I strain it into small baby food size jars that I get at Dollar Tree, or a mason jar. Then I smear it on my back, neck, right or left knee, and right shoulder. I have osteoarthritis. I also use it for neuropathy pain in my forearms (from having shingles).
 
Back pain is a bitch. I have had severe back pain since turning 30. I had to give up tennis because of it. Though I can still snow ski. I have declined back fusions and other surgeries. They all result in more complicatins in time. So I have an indoor hot tub in my house here in the back sun room. I also make lots of topicals here with all my leftover buds and with any strain that I do not like or that I am not interested in smoking, as well as a variety of cold sifted hash powder. I got the original recipes from my niece but I have changed them a lot. Her recipes call for decarbing the weed, but I want more acid forms and more raw forms of active cannabinoids and terpenes and flavinoids. So I do not decarb, other than drying and curing my weed before making it into cold sifted hash using a converted ice cream machine in a chest freezer. That works great for making hashish.

I do not know about the best strains, though I have been told that Alaska Thunderfuck was the best for pain relief by several older stoners that I have come across in my time. I have tried to find a valid source of Alaska Thunderfuck beans for many years, but it seems to be a myth like Greek Kalamata, Pune Buddah or Zacatecas Purple, and is lost to time. There was apparently a fire involved and exactly where it was grown and who had the real deal remains a mystery. Some say that the real ATF is Matanuska Tundra, or Matanuska Thunderfuck. I hvae given up trying to find any of those beans. Personally I go for plants with a particular tested cannabinoid and terpene profile rather than strain name. Some terpenes are analgesic and/or psychotropic. Also you can get pure isolate forms of some terpenes and cannabinoids. Some cannabinoids and most terpenes are available in essential oil form. Some cannabinoids are hard to grow or get, as they are rare in the strains available out there.

THC, CBG and CBD and their acid forms have the most research regarding being effective in pain relief. THC is an analog to human anandamide (ananda is the Sanskrit word for bliss). THC is the main psychoactive cannabinoid, but is also an analgesic and anti-inflammatory. Growing CBD can be a challenge. I tried growing hemp strains 2 years ago, and they are early and funky compared to Marijuana strains. So I use pure CBD isolate crystals from Colorado (mail order) which is pretty scheap and 99.9% pure. CBD works best when THC is present. CBD has little binding affinity for either CB1 or CB2 receptors, but it is capable of antagonizing them in the presence of THC. So CBD alone is not so great, but with it is a better analgesi. CBD is also an anti-inflammatory without THC. CBG is the latest studied cannabinoid on the block, and has been found to be extremely effective at relieving pain and inflammation. CBG is not that common in mature cannabis though. CBGa is the master cannabinoid from which most other cannabinoids are derived from in the plant. You can buy pure CBG crystals now, but they are expensive. Similarly cannabinoids like CBC are rare and very expensive in pure form, so I grow several strains that have tested higher in CBC, like Maui Waui Cherry Bomb. CBC will not crystalize but it is available as a more or less pure oil now. CBC is known to intensify CBN and THC, and likely intensifies the effects of other cannabinoids. Some report that it is psychotropic like THC, even alone. this is likely as CBC activates the release of anandamide, which THC is an analog of. CBC has limited testing and little research, but some studies show it to be effective for pain relief in arthritis. CBC binds with the 'pain perception' receptors TRPV1 and TRPA1, which when activated, release anandamide. CBC also appears to inhibit the uptake of anandamide, allowing it to remain longer in the bloodstream. CBC combined with THC also has effective anti-inflammatory indications. See why I grow CBC strains? Now there is also CBN, the cannabinoid that THC breaks down to over time. Tests showed that about 10% of THC in weed will convert to CBN after a year on the shelf. For that reason I keep old weed and hash around. Anyway, CBN has been shown to greatly reduce migraine pain. CBN is also said to act like Valium as a muscle relaxant. 5 mg of CBN is said to be the equivalent of taking 10 mg of Valium but with few psychoactive effects. For me CBN puts me to sleep. Old weed is good for bedtime when I am jacked up. So I think that is the Big 6 when it comes to cannabinoids. The more, the better!

Terpenes are also known to be effective for pain relief. Particularly beta-caryophyllene, linalool, myrcene, limonene, and bisabolol. These can all be bought as essential oils on their own, and also occur in many Mj strains. They are also found in other plants. There are many other terpenes in Mj and other plants as well. For example, I also have a large potted Turkish Bay tree here. The culinary kind. The local Oregon Myrtle/California Bay trees are related and about twice as strong. Both can also be used for culinary purposes and for topicals. I add Bay diced leaves to some of my topical batches in rather strong form. Like 20 leaves in a batch. Use fresh leaves, old stale bay eaves in the stores are pretty sad. That can be said for a lot of this stuff, except when you want CBN. Then you need old weed.

So that may not answer your question though. I grow multiple strains every year, and so I tend to dump in a lot of different bud and hash and some other stuff into my topical salves, along with CBD isolate. The basis of my salves are a combination of oils and fats, mainly based on palm oil. Palm oil is cheap and it works well as a base. It is in a lot of skin care products. It also sets hard at room temperature, so I do not have to deal with oils which tend to drip. I also use shea butter, as it is softer and works as a good carrier of compounds to be absorbed into your skin. I also use coco butter for the smell and skin feel, and bees wax to get the right consistency of the final salve. I test the oil when it is still melted and dip and ice cube in it to test consistency. If it is too fluid, I add more bees wax to firm it up. So say 10 parts palm oil, 2 part Shea butter, 1 part coco butter, 0.2-1 part bees wax. I melt this in a pan on the stove and add crushed bay leaves, fresh or crumbled cured Mj colas, hash powder, and maybe some old weed from the back room. I may also add turmeric, ginger, cinnamon stick or several other herbs and spices. Every batch is different. Then I turn the stove off and let the plants steep, and every few hours I will re-melt the oil if it solidifies. After a few days I strain it into small baby food size jars that I get at Dollar Tree, or a mason jar. Then I smear it on my back, neck, right or left knee, and right shoulder. I have osteoarthritis. I also use it for neuropathy pain in my forearms (from having shingles).
Great read!
Thanks
 
One other thought. As to why I make different batches of salves and creams with variable ingredients. Salves for pain work the same way as smoking or eating for the high or for pain relief. You build up a tolerance to them. Like the first time you smoke Billy's High Test Banana Cream & Butter Pecan Smoothie buds, you get a great buzz. But thereafter the more you smoke, the less intense the high. You build up a tolerance for it. So you need to smoke more of it to get the same effect, lay off if it for a while, or smoke something else. This holds true with all the analgesics and anti-inflammatory meds out there like the opioids, NSAIDs and steroids. The more you smoke, the more you need to get the same analgesic effect. They can also build up in your system. So with the smorgasbord of cannabinoids and terpenoids available in different Cannabis strains, extracts, isolates and other plant species, you can mix and match to get similar effects and not build up a tolerance to any one strain or blend.

In an oversight last night (likely due to the effects of smoking my home grown weed) I also left out THCv. One of my ~favorite~ cannabinoids, and why I grow and breed South African strains like Durban Poison. While it does not seem to be an analgesic in the same way that other cannabinoids are, research suggests that THCv helps with pain sensitivity, essentially increasing a person’s tolerance to pain so that their nervous system becomes less reactive to pain stimuli. THCv also interacts with cannabinoid receptors in the immune system, which implies that THCv may play a role in regulating and reducing the body’s inflammatory response (and thus indirectly reducing pain). THCv is also know to suppress appetite, which is the flip side of THC which tends to increase appetite with 'the munchies'.
 
...choose a strain of cannabis that does not induce fits of coughing as this will adversely affect back pain and then require more cannabis and go round in circles and smoke all your herb and still have a sore back worse than when you started....

there are some beauty keepers in nordle that will work wonders for back pain and smoke smooth, easy 50% of the nordle females i have could be keepers.
 
I agree with @Ken Abbis
Nordle has some awesome medicinal plants in there. Before I got out of trade work I really loved it in my medicine cabinet. Must try for those with back pain or nerve issues.
 
Many people have had great success using cannabis compounds in the treatment of pain. I have used topicals and tinctures for awhile now and still feel there is so much more to learn. That said I would welcome comments on what has worked best for you. I specifically want to focus on topicals and back pain. Is there anything new out there? I am looking for the following:

1) strain used
2) medium (carrier) used- coco oil, olive oil, alcohol, glycerin, other.
3) strength- mg THC per teaspoon of canna oil? Grams per cup of carrier?
4) essential oils used? Which ones, strength?
5) other additives used for pain relief?
6) other information that would be helpful in treating back pain?

For instance, I have used Nordle, Medicine Man, Ortega. Initially thinking Nordle wouldn’t work as well as Medman, I was pleasantly surprised! I will be doing salves based on CBD Mango, Medihaze, Shark Shock soon! I prefer coconut oil for my salves because of expense, absorption and tolerability. I prefer wintergreen oil (methyl salicylate) for its analgesic effect. Not for little kids though. I use birch when I don’t have wintergreen. I am really interested in the EO’s used as I believe these potentiate the medicine in a good way. Thanks in advance for your help!

Aloha nui
M
Hi Mu,
Nice of you to post this. I just recently donated a good bit of dee seeded NL5HZCMK
(haze pheno) from last season crop to a young lady that has been making this pain cream . Previously she used Afghan Haze trim bye product and it was very well received by a few veteran friends of mine . 👍 they said it worked better than opiates so who am I to argue with these guys.
I may try a bit of this new batch since it is a much stronger profile with the MK hybrid.
🙏
 
Aloha Ohana!

Hey, it's that time! With winter coming on in the Northern 🌎 hemisphere and a new harvest, what to do with all the excess? Make some oil and tinctures! This past weekend was spent doing just that. I made 3 versions of canna oil including a quart of my Nursie (ACDC x Ortega). Here are the other two.
IMG_4689 - Copy (2).jpg

The Nursie, with the addition of 6+ essential oils is being made into salve. Don't forget to bless it up!
IMG_4692 - Copy.jpg

Some of the newer stuff will be made into tinctures and RS oil. And there is another group reserved for hash of course. Now is the time to be making medicines and securing them for long term storage.

mu
 
I cannot offer any suggestions as far as preparations go, but I have had back pain for the past four years after a workplace injury and subsequent injuries caused by continuing to work after being injured. After countless physios and physio visits and loads of really not very helpful exercises, I ended up fixing my back pain myself with a back buddy. The pain I was experiencing was in my back but it was beginning in my glutes. Tightness there was radiating up into my back. These muscles were overworked trying to support my injured latissimus dorsi (original injury). I spent many hours massaging any part that hurt or itched (lower back and glutes). Trying to get as deep into the muscles as possible and stretch them. Especially where they start and finish and become cartilage or tendons. I explained the back buddy to one of the physios and she said that any spot that hurts or is itchy is where you need to work. One thing about having a long-term injury is that people have a tendency to put themselves in cotton wool to avoid pain (I did anyway) which leads to muscles getting tight and referred pain sometimes in a different area. I hope I am not giving anyone false hope that has degenerative issues, but I was at a point where I was about to give up and just accept the pain as a part of the rest of my life. Maybe my experience can help somebody. I am also not out of the woods yet after releasing certain muscles other muscles are suddenly being used in different ways (or just being used) and I have torn an oblique muscle in my side. Every time I cough or sneeze I just about have to drop to my knees. All the best, I hope you find something that helps.
 
Hey Mu, do you know if lecithin would help with absorbability of the cannabinoids? I know it works extremely well when ingesting cannabis but unsure if it is also used in salves. I use it in my coconut oil and I use that on my sore muscles or back when I'm having issues.
From memory, the main thing you need after applying any cannabinoid cream or oil is heat. I usually have a hot bath, rub in the oil and then put a heat pack on for 25-30 mins. Seems to help nicely! I do train 6 days a week in martial arts though so I'm mainly dealing with sore muscles as opposed to chronic back pain.

Hope you can find something that really works mate! No one deserves to be in pain!

Cheers
Easty
 
Aloha brah! It's not so much my pain (tho I do use it) as making medicine for others. Thanks for your compassion tho. I haven't used lecithin. And someone was talking about the benefits of emu oil. Got DMSO? It's a driver for sure. Stuff absorbs instantly, just have to make sure the area is clean of any chemicals on your skin before application as it will drive that in also. It does impart a funny taste in the mouth tho after rubbing it externally on your skin. It goes thru the body that fast and it does play havoc with the metal mason jar lids!
I do have a funny story about medicine and heatpacks...

mu
 
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