runoff problem ?

proger

Member
hello all. i need help: i have 8 plants in about 30 days in flower in 18 lts pots, soil. ive noticed that some sativa plants always takes less water(about 500-1000ml) and starts runoff real fast, while the indicas can take up to 2000ml without runoff but stays wet longer. i feel like the sativas in there can feed properly due that .
 

n2ishun

Member
Try watering the sats with about 200ml and let it sit for 10 minutes or so, then add more.
I think you'll find it's due to the soil not accepting the water correctly due to surface tension type issues.
It is best to lift the pot after watering, both the sats and indica containers should weigh about the same after watering.....you've probably been under watering the sats.
 

longball

New member
"Try watering the sats with about 200ml and let it sit for 10 minutes or so, then add more. I think you'll find it's due to the soil not accepting the water correctly due to surface tension type issues. "

^^^this^^^

Hello proger!

I think n2shun is right. With surface tension the water runs right off the soil and down the inside of the container(due to surface tension again) and neither the soil or plant sees much of it. There are a couple ways to deal with surface tension.

One of the ways is to lightly water the soil first and let it sink in. Then water it as n2ishun said. My plants for example: If I give them 1500-2000ml of water without pre-wetting the soil it will run right off the soil and out of the container. If I pre-wet the soil then give them 750-1000ml of water it sinks in. If I wait 15 or 20 minutes and water again, and then repeat this a number of times the soil/plants will take about 6500ml of water before I start to get runoff!!! That means the soil is good and saturated and the plants have plenty of time to suck up water and nutes. It takes a lot more time though. lol

My plants seem to respond well to this as there is much more water/nutes available to them for a longer period of time. The holes in the container help prevent overwatering. In fact, my plants need to be watered twice a day! I use so much water that in the picture below you can see a 50-gallon rain barrel in the lower right-hand corner and water cans everywhere. All those leaves need water!

While your plants will need a different amount of water than mine the idea is the same. Also, keep in mind that rain does not fall for just one minute so your watering should not just be one minute either. These plants respond to love! 😊 This is something that has worked for me, your mileage may vary. Picture taken on July 6, 2020. Still a lot of growing to do! And a lot of water to be drank!!

Longball

july-06-2020-p1030434.jpg
 

longball

New member
Hello proger!

Of course, with the limited info we have maybe the sats are drinking all they need? lol Please keep us posted how things work out!

Longball
 

musashi

Super Moderator
Staff member
Aloha fellow Firewalkers!

Consider the following:
For better water dispersal throughout soil, use a surfactant that contains saponins. These wetting agents break water polarity which causes the surface tension. Besides increasing water retention, the many benefits of using yucca extracts include the reduction of salt buildup. Have a look.

https://www.maximumyield.com/yucca-extracts-a-gardening-secret-from-the-desert/2/1236

From my readings, I understand that yucca extracts have demonstrated “increased membrane permeability to facilitate increased internal transfer of nutrients and stronger plant metabolism.”

Another trick that can help avoid micro-channel formation and increase absorption is to use slightly larger trays under your plants and water them from the bottom. This saves time and using a predetermined amount of water per plant aids in water conservation and minimizes nutrient depletion. This technique can lower the humidity problems associated with surface watering in a closed environment, i.e. indoor grows. Additionally, it will reduce your typical surface gnat problems. Hope this is helpful.

Good hunting brah!


Mu
 

proger

Member
wow thanks you guys for the replys!

I will apply all of those advises on the plants.

i think it also has to do with the soil that i make on my own from brown and black peat and some perlite. to make things worst when ive transplanted the plants into the 18lts pots ive pushed and packed the soil strongly into the pots thinking it will improve roots growth. its completely wrong right?

ive started to water them as mention here and some improvements was showed, altought i think that the harm has been done as they almost finish their cycle...

good info about the yucca extract, il try to find out if i can get it here. is there other components to use in order to avoid those surface tension type issues?(like humos, coco ect ect...)

THANKS again and sorry for my English.
 

longball

New member
Hello proger!

"ive pushed and packed the soil strongly into the pots thinking it will improve roots growth. its completely wrong right?" Do not strongly pack the soil. Lightly tamp the soil.

Different soils are affected by water surface tension in different ways. I use and suggest a good humus. As musashi suggested you can use yucca extract powder or you can use agar-agar. Both can be purchased at garden centers or online and sometimes health food stores. You can buy a ready made product or make your own. Google things like 'soil surfactants', 'wetting agents', or 'soil wetting agents'. Lots of good info to help you understand the problem with water surface tension and soil hydrophobia!

Here is a little excerpt from a site called Organic Gardener. Paragraph's 3 and 4 are useful to know for outdoor growers using soil!


"it’s easy to make your own soil wetter from agar-agar, a naturally occurring gelling agent derived from various seaweeds and algae. You can buy it in powder form from health food shops. To make a soil wetter, simply mix the powder with boiling water to make a paste, then combine 250mL of paste with 4.5L of water. Apply to water repellent soil and potting mix. Agar is so benign that it’s most commonly used as a vegetarian substitute for gelatine.

Regardless of which product you choose, the best way to approach soil wetters is by seeing them as a bandaid solution to a more chronic problem. There’s no doubt they help water penetrate into hydrophobic soils. But they’re a short term fix only.

The best long term solution to most soil woes is to add organic matter, and the best sources of organic matter are composts, manures and plant residues (green manure). When these amendments fully decompose, they form humus, a stable material that can achieve a kind of soil yin-yang: Drainage and moisture holding ability.

Humus achieves this by virtue of a sponge like structure. It opens up clay soil, increasing aeration and allowing excess moisture to drain away. But like a sponge, it is able to soak up and hold water to a capacity of 100 times its own weight, gradually releasing moisture to plants as required. Above all, humus creates the ideal habitat for micro-organisms. If you’re going to solve soil hydrophobia, these little critters are what you need to encourage. They’re nature’s soil wetters, and unlike the wetting agents you buy from a shop, come with a host of benefits for your garden that cost not a single extra dollar."

Fun Fact - Due to water surface tension I have to add a product called "Water Wetter" to the cooling system of my race car. Who knew that water needed to be wetter than Mother Nature made it? lol DO NOT USE THIS FOR PLANTS!!!

Longball

0000268_supercool-with-waterwetter_464.jpeg
 

n2ishun

Member
Dear god DO NOT use RedLine water wetter.
That shit is made to use in a race cars radiator, I know, I used to wrench on them when I was a tad younger.
I know you specifically stated not to use it and I certainly agree....but 'proger' the OP of this thread has stated that his (her?) english is not all that good.
I humbly suggest removing the image so there is no chance of a mistake....and since everyone makes mistakes....(I know I've fucked up enough for 10 normal people in the course of my lifetime...to date).

A simple 1 drop of dawn dish soap in about 5 gallons of water is a simple yet effective surface tension breaker (surfactant).
I've never seen it harm anything and I have used it on plants in some stubborn soil (try southwestern us desert silt).
 

n2ishun

Member
Specifically listed as surface tension reducer and does say made with Yucca.
May be a better alternative...unsure, never used either of them.
Anyone ?
My ghetto mexican espanol is not up to the task, I speak it well enough but spain espanol is just that little bit too different for me.
 

CannaFish

Member
you might find better options if you google yucca schidigera powder or extract.

another DIY option is blending up aloe vera leaf in your irrigation water. adds many amino acids, saponins, plant hormones. I know they have aloe in spain
 

longball

New member
Hello All!

I believe the OP is from Uruguay which may limit online ordering options. If he Google's words like 'soil surfactants', 'wetting agents', or 'soil wetting agents' he should be able to find a product to buy or make close to home.
Agar-agar is made from kelp/algae, available most anywhere in the world and most garden or health food stores. At Stadiums and Golf Courses I've worked at we just poked holes in the ground and watered. For my MJ I poke
holes with 12 inch bamboo skewer and then water if having any hydrophobia problems. Poking holes also allows oxygen to the roots and no chemicals, mixing, containers, et. If you have a bigger garden they sell aerators at most
garden centers. Not sure if OP has indoor or outdoor grow?

Longball

s-l640.jpg
 

musashi

Super Moderator
Staff member
For Stateside made in Oregon- Nectar for the Gods- yucca extract in 4% solution.
Aloe Vera juice available at Trader Joe's. Does have preservatives. Needs to be refrigerated upon opening.
Liquid detergent in a pinch. Doesn't have all the other beneficial goodies. Not assimilated? Impact flavor?


🤙
Mu
 

CannaFish

Member
Yes it looks like a good product.

I use a little bonsai rake to rough up the surface before watering. Purely anecdotal, but I think the raking helps with keeping fungus gnats down. Kinda like raking a beach to keep the sand flies from taking hold.
 

musashi

Super Moderator
Staff member
Aloha!

One of the disadvantages of bottom watering is that these thingies keep growing out of the bottom of many of the 5 gallon pots. Anyone got some scissors lol.

roots1 7_11.jpg roots2 7_11.jpg


🤙
Mu
 
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