Dawns Critical Mass


Looking good Dawn! I love seedlings, it's the start of the journey.

Look forward to your updates.

Good luck with the Critical Masses!



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The little one looks fine to me :) I've had plants with no leaves come back to life! Nice pictures!


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1k is kinda heavy to veg in anywats. has to be so far away from the ehat so may cause stretching,.is also why most use 600 in bloom. can be closer and get more lumens to the plant cause of the heat


1k is kinda heavy to veg in anywats. has to be so far away from the ehat so may cause stretching,.is also why most use 600 in bloom. can be closer and get more lumens to the plant cause of the heat

Try climate control friend..or a fan..

If you think a 1k metal halide in the proper Kelvin spectrum (4-6500K) is bad for vegetative growth..
a 1k causing stretching ?? really?? that's a new one to me..
I'm all ears as to what is better...

I've been using 1k's exclusively for vegetative grow rooms for many years
my gals are all built like brick shithouses,,dense,lush and stout!

Try that with anything else!

Most don't use 600 in bloom,,,most growers use 1k's ..

anybody using 600's is doing so due to small dimensioned grow parameters and heat concerns
or an energy consumption concern,and high electric bill...
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jee wizz, why didt i think of a fan. of course i have. actualy 2 of them and are plenty for the room, in fact could run double the room size...lol
didnt say anything about a mh either. i dont waste time using week bulbs. i only use hps all the way. the blue wears of so fast in thsoe and are half the lumens as hps to.
mh has nothing to do with yours being tight either. mh makes branching not density, not saying yours arent just facts ont he colours and what they do for us. and i do try this with ohter, being hps. cheeper for buying an extra bulb for me as well as more powerfull. and no they dont stretch with it. those are the guys that need the better fans cause they get to hot
maybe your buddies use 1k. most us here use 600 to keep closer and keep the same lumens as 1k
so sure when you use a weeker light in mh you can get closer to the plant. but is a weeker lumen bulb.

and i know most use hps as i work in a shop and nute co and 600 move way way more than 1k do....here anyways


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We used to use 600 rather then 1k lights as they are more efficient then 1k lights.

Also the spread of two 600 is more then a 1k and costs only slightly more to run but your light area space is increased to justify the two lamps rather then one.

Only those still in the dark ages use 1k lights....

Even some of the die hards we know in the US have seen the light as it were with 600's over 1k lights.


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looks deff in nitro and phos witgh brown spots. ill make a bet the medium`s pH is down to low for them to eat the food in the soil. should be about 6.3 going in with water and foods, and no foods yet as that stuff is loaded and should last for weeks on its own,. maybe you added food and this would make it to hot and causes the pH to drop and makes the deff you see.
for some reason when i click on images to enlarge the dont show anything. ive run plants for 4 months in cups and no root bound i always hear about but have yet to see anyone have. to me root bound is them roots messing up their pattern they grow in and then choke themselves out. and ive yet to see it in real life. just pics. a full pot of roots to me isnt root bound.

i got my Critical Mass now to and dropped in soil last night.

forgot...the brown twisty leafs could be rust disease to from being deff...most think its a cal deff but its a disease caused by poor health. some will feed with calcium and does fix it, but why its being fioxed is calcium repairs cells and is what causes the rust....damages cells. the deffender stuff works for it as well and is more for the actual disease.
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Most don't use 600 in bloom,,,most growers use 1k's ..

anybody using 600's is doing so due to small dimensioned grow parameters and heat concerns
or an energy consumption concern,and high electric bill...
well cabron. I TOTALLY agree with you on using 1k mh for veg. literally makes the best plants I have seen buy a long shot....t5ho are great for up to about 1.5feet but to really get max veg you need 600 or 1000 mh...

now I have to beg to differ on your ideas on 600 watt being inferieor to 1000..
if you do the math you can see that 600 watt are the most eficent... as most 600 watt hps can deliver 98,000 lumens and some of the new electronic ballast are even producing 118,000lumens with a new optimized bulb you can see thats fanastic lumens and plenty of penitration..

now compare that to the average 1000watt hps at 148,000 lumens , its easy to see that the 1000watt hps produces more...

the problem is that your using much more power. they draw in the range of 1275 wtts of energy to make that 1000watts output... plus the heat build up is alwasy an issue with 1000w....

no take into account a 600 watt using 705 watts energy total consumed power .

I have seen many optimized proffesional garndens that prefer to use 2 600 watts in place of 1 x 1000watt... when you comapre 2 x600 versus 1x1000watt the lumens output are undesputed...
2x 600wat =225,000lum...
where as the
1000 being only 145,000lumens...

2x 600wat power consumption = 1410w
1 x 10000watt power consumption = 1275w

so for a 135 watts more power used with 2 x 600 w your increasing your lumens output by a large factor . basically a 8% increase in power usage delivers a whopping 40% power output due to the major power efficiency of the 600watt systems...

the other advanatages are:
- less localized heat build up
- more spread out light source means better deliver of light for plants farther away
- overlapping of light paths which creates more grow foot print
- closer bulb to canopy placement which is a huge advantage due to penetration as light drops off half its lumens for ever foot traveled..

hope this helps you and others as it was somthing I learned many years ago..

The only disadvantage is that the set up cost is more as you need double the light equipment, 2x ballast bulb reflector etc.... but performance always cost


New member
wow, lotsa great math.

I have no calculations, but I share clones of my black domina, exact genetic replica's all, with a bud who vegs/flowers them out under a 1K light. I use a sun system 600w HPS hortilux and my results kick his ass every time ... I get donkey you know what's, he get's teenage boy you know whats.

There are other differences in grow conditions, but I do love the results I get with the 600w.



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well I was not really under the assumption that every forum thread had to always stay on topics and always stay directed and focused on the opening thread... from my years of being on the forums helping people I have come to realize that threads are like going down a river in a canoe, some times you go left some times right but sooner or later your gonna get to where you want to go... you cant really change the course so enjoy the ride.....


New member
ill apologize for my end.
anyways i get the safers deffedner at about any store ehre. canadian tire or home depot. not sure where you are so maybe the lowes or other type stores have it...or the grow shop should have it to.
you mayt want to check the run off for pH. i think it may be low to cause the deff`s if this is new soil and has foods in it....maybe not letting them dry enough inbetween???


New member
hahaha...thx, i can be an ass at times.

i have my Critical Mass above soil a bit today...was a bit slow to germ and pop out of the medium....but its up...whoo-hoo....lol
hi Dawn , i always wait untill my clones are rooted and healthy before flowering out the seed plant , this way if clones die i can take more and then flower the moms when i know i have healthy babies from each

too much air early on ?
too much moisture ?
too much light ?

avoid those 3

too cold ? maybe , but ive cloned in very chilly basements just fine without a heat mat even , took 3 times longer to root but still rooted