Curly clawed leaves

Marcus_in_the_Darkus

Well-known member
Greetings MNS faithful! I'm soliciting some advice on what I can/should do about some curly leaves that have recently shown up on some Vietnamese and grail haze plants. This is my first foray into organic soil, which I sourced straight outta compost from the garden of @BuzzardsBay. The plants have been doing great, and are now one month from germination. A few days ago I up-potted them to 7" pots and, on the advice of BB, cut the compost 1:1 with peat moss. At that time I used some organic fertilizer that I had, which is the dried out remnants of red wriggler castings and stuff I had left over from my experiments with worm bins. I pulverized this stuff and added a couple teaspoons to the mix for each plant. The plants continue to look great but now I'm getting some pretty significant curly clay leaf, especially on the sexiest Vietnamese plant. A search of the interwebs says it's most likely overwatering, nitrogen toxicity, or possibly too much sun or heat. It's been fairly cool since they were transplanted, so I don't think that's it. The seedlings thrived in full sun and August heat before I up-potted, so I don't think that's it. Which leaves overwatering and too much nutrients. Given the remnants of hurricane Ida are on their way, I'm wondering if I should move the plants inside to prevent further over-watering. I'm interested in your thoughts and advice.

Here's the Vietnamese plant V1 (heh, aka BuzzBomb), showing the strongest claw leaf tendencies.
V1 curly leaves.jpg


And here's some of Nevil's grail work from Oz (outback haze x NH21xMML and NH18xMM x NH21xMML) showing claw leaf mostly in the top-node, developing leaves.
grail curly leaves.jpg
 

CannaFish

Well-known member
Soil mixes that use peat typically need dolomite lime as a buffer.
I’m constantly trying to figure out how to grow these sensitive plants in organic soil. It seems important to premix these soils and let them “cook”.
And any amendments are added at very small increments to avoid over doing it.
I grew your angels breathe x lumbo cross in straight happy frog, no amendments without any issues.
 

n2ishun

Well-known member
Is it cool weather,or has it been overcast for quite a while ?
The planters are obviously too wet and that will cause *some* PH shift.
I say help them to dry out a bit and wait for some sun....or put them under indoor lighting and wait for them to dry out.

I really don't see anything wrong with the plants other than that.
 

Marcus_in_the_Darkus

Well-known member
Muchas gracias, hombres! Yesterday was beautiful with sun and temps in the mid 70s. Today it's a bit cooler and overcast with the tropical air moving in. I've moved them into the garage to keep them out of the rain and wind tonight. I'll try a bit of pulverized dolomite. Top dress? Does that mean just add a bit to the top of the soil and mix it in? What am I looking at here, one or two teaspoons per plant?
 

n2ishun

Well-known member
You can add some dolomite lime, a teaspoon or two per container, it won't hurt a thing but probably won't help either until those containers dry out and they get some warmth to the soil.
70's is a bare minimum for sats.
Elevate the containers off the ground so they can drain and not sit in puddles.
Just wait 'er out....they'll be ok as long as they dry.

BTW, I'm sure you've seen many plants droop a tad right after you water them....that's what these are doing, just a lil more extreme due to way too much water.
 

BuzzardsBay

Well-known member
Looks good to me. I’d buy a gallon of Crystal Gyser spring water and use that For awhile. Let them dry out well, then use that see what happens.
Today is Sept 3, first nice day we have had. Hit them with a 1oz per gallon solution of pure crop1 every 5 day make sure to soak bottoms of leaves.
Those plants are beautiful, the skinny serrated leaves, seem to make them look ominous, maybe even a little dangerous. If you see a bug or pest up to 2oz per gallon.
 

Marcus_in_the_Darkus

Well-known member
I moved the plants into the flower tent right after I made the first post in this thread...good thing because we got about 6" of rain from Ida. It sure looks like I overfed the crap out of them...ridiculously dark leaves and much curling going on, with my favorite plant, the Vietnamese V1, suffering the most. Makes sense as I'd expect this feral pheno to be a really light feeder. A few of the grail haze plants have pretty much recovered, and I hope they all get past this in a week or two without too much damage. I'm watering with dehumidifier water (zero EC) and I don't water at all unless the pot feels light. I added one teaspoon of lime and scratched it into the surface. Lately I've noticed the yellow stripes and spots on some of the lower leaves...magnesium deficiency? Not sure if this is a sign of too much or too little lime. I still haven't measured soil pH. Can I do that with my el-cheapo Ebay pH meter I used for hydroponics?

Really sad that I fucked up this grow, and would welcome advice, encouragement, or regrets, as appropriate.


All plants in the tent. The two Vietnamese back right were thirsty and they're doing OK now.
all plants Sep 6.jpg



Here's V1. Sadness.
V1 Sep 6.jpg




Here's an outback haze cross. More sadness.
Outback haze Sep 6.jpg
 

musashi

Site Moderator
Staff member
Aloha dearest brother from another mother!

While it could be a nutrition thing, sometimes I wonder if it is hydrostatic pressure thing, with plant tops looking like underinflated balloons. Many times they resolve themselves as the leaf enlarges and matures. As they are sensitive plants, any inputs are immediately felt. Overwatering IMO is the biggest factor in a plant's failure to thrive. Besides the dilution and leaching of nutrients, hypoxia occurs, minimizing microbe activity, starving and weakening the plant and inviting pests and disease. One can see the Von Liebig barrel being turned over lol. Sometimes, I've seen them shock like that just before a PM (powdery mildew) storm too! But I think @Islandgrower and @Dj_Greenhouse may be on to something with yellowing bottom leaves a good indicator. It is certainly a consideration.
Speaking of water, another overlooked area is VPD. The combination of temperature and humidity is critical for the optimization of NLD's IME. VPD "in the zone" can positively affect nutrient and gas uptake efficiencies.
The VB's I grew some time ago were very sensitive. While large internodal spacing is a given on this strain, they went berserk when I fed them like I fed my SD. Long and stringy, smelling of hay. Yeah, I laid off the N after that. There was clawing on those plants also. I believe most of the VB's available today were cut with Yunnan and so I dropped the line convinced it was not a true landrace.

It is always difficult to diagnose when not there. Oftentimes, when I run into trouble though, after going thru the checklist of watering, pest/disease, humidity, pH, I'll dose them with a microbe tea made with kelp, molasses and fulvates; after the soil has dried out a bit. Tea could be applied foliarly in the interim- in the morning so they dry out. I usually pH it on the alkaline side to discourage mold. I can usually get them to turn around then :) You might give it a try.

And as always, please take my opinions for what they are, my opinions. It's a good day to be smokin some Holy Grail! Aloha brah!


🤙Mu
 
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