Confused about who really has which skunk #1

PlantManBee

Well-known member
Don't feed the rats.

I hate rats. I spent from 97-2009 in Federal Possession. I hate rats.
Again, his knowledge and his actions are 2 different subjects. And there are/were multiple people and agencies that ALL had stuff to gain or lose. Even if you were there, it is more than likely you haven't heard the whole story. So, I'm not going to choose sides.
 

Growstone

Well-known member
he knows how to give conflated answers.. some look at that and sucked in by that hypnosis, it's seen as a god like knowledge.. I don't understand how all his building blocks were created underground but not much once allowed to..
 
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59lespaul

Active member
You either ratted, or you didn't. Aint no grey area.

I don't care what someone knows either. Doesnt mean I'm going to consort with them. Hitler was allegedly a fairly smart dude too. Manson was too.

I went to State Prison for 2 x 1/8th, and because they were in different bags, I was charged wuth intent to traffic, and considering I lived 300 feet from a school, and the sate I live in, Ky had a 1000 yards of a school law, and there was only 2 places in the whole city that's this was applicable, I got 15 months, and a felony. From then on, I couldn't even get a job at McDonalds, when I had also been in school for Physical Therapy.

I could have taken all kinds of people down, yet, I took a Felony, that ruined my life, when I was 30 yars old, in scholl for Physical Therapy. Ws KY Powerlifting champ. Had a lot to lose. But I didn't rat.

But I don't give a flying crap what someone knows, if theyre a rat. heyre a rat, and people that don't like rats shouldn't give them a platform, regardless of what they know.

Hes also not the end all, know it all. He was an apprentice with the angels, and ripped them off.

Rats put me in prison. We tortured rats in prison. Get it?? Child Molesters too. Theyre on the same level in prison.

Skunkman stole the original hells angels Sk genes when he went to Europe, and Sacred Seeds. He was an apprentice grower with angels, and ratted, way back then, and they don't like him.
 
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Elmer Bud

Banned
Wrong. I had the catalog.

Quote from Sensi Seeds.


The Brotherhood of Eternal Love and the Hippie Trail
Arguably the most infamous of all drug-smuggling outfits during the heyday of the Hippie Trail, the Brotherhood of Eternal Love was an organisation of Californian smugglers active in the ‘60s and ‘70s – and who became so notorious that they earned the nickname “the Hippie Mafia”.

The “Hippie Trail” of the ‘60s & ‘70s stretched from SE Asia to Western Europe (© Wiki Commons)
While the Brotherhood was primarily known for bringing in vast quantities of Asian hashish to the U.S., as well as manufacturing equally prodigious quantities of LSD, they also played an instrumental role in bringing in Nepali, Indian, Afghani and Mexican seeds, which then became the basis for breeding operations by dozens of underground growing communities.






By around 1976, breeders from Fallbrook, CA had begun to produce the first-ever sinsemilla (seedless) cannabis, using seeds from the Brotherhood, as well as from a nameless consortium of Thai Stick importers based in San Diego.


How Cannabis Seed Smugglers Shaped Today’s Industry


https://sensiseeds.com/en/blog/how-cannabis-seed-smugglers-shaped-todays-industry/
G `day AT

Why would importers who don`t grow want seeds that wont grow to finish in their climate ?

BOEL were about money not crop development .
Also sold a substance called STP that caused a lot of people to go to hospital .

Need better sauce than some fantasy piece from Sensi Seeds . LOL .

Thanks for sharin

EB .

Thanks
 

Elmer Bud

Banned
Don't feed the rats.

I hate rats. I spent from 97-2009 in Federal Possession. I hate rats.

G `day 59

You feel strongly about informers ?
So do I .

But ,,, please show me some proof , more than a manufactured story on a canna forum and I might even start to believe you .

Where `s the smokin gun ?????



Your fantasy about Hell`S Angels ?
If he stole from them and snitched ? How is he able to live openly in Amsterdam ? Last I heard they were an international organisation with a chapter in Amsterdam . So that kinda puts that theory to rest . Or does Skunk Man have a force field that protects him from revenge seekers ?

Thanks for sharin

EB .
 
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59lespaul

Active member
DAVID WATSON AKA SAM THE SKUNKMAN AKA SAM SELEZNY AKA Dr. FrankenbeanStein AKA Dr. FrankenWeedStein AKA King of Snitchcraft

He Is Quickly Becoming The King Of Copyrighted Strain Genetics


I will begin with the smoking gun as to his bust

Here is an interview with Mel Frank. In the video, Mel talks about his friend from
California, a very good marijuana breeder he says, who was busted twice and
ultimately went to the Netherlands. This friend is alleged to have brought Skunk #1,
Haze, Durban Poison and Afghani #1 to Holland.


In September 1994 was HortaPharm BV opium license from the Ministry of Health. The
company Watson was Tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) for chemical analytical research. THC
is one of the substances from the hemp plant which may be used as a medicine. The
leave was given only for research, not for growing marijuana. Also, the
administration in man of THC is not allowed. Last September the leave expired and a
second request was rejected. Interim relief Watson fought unsuccessfully that
decision and now serves his appeal. In addition, Watson has also appealed to the
Board of Appeal. An opinion on the case that is now on the desk of the minister,
Watson argues again unsuccessful. Watson can give to that state of affairs no
comment. He will next week only official response. That the advice has already been
leaked, he sees as a renewed expression of animus against his company. "Apparently,
it is the intention to extract from the ground under my company". For months Watson
feels with their backs against the wall and he must defend himself for everything.
Was so, even in a parliamentary question, pointed to the fact that it appears in the
computer prosecutor in Santa Cruz, California. He would have been arrested over
thirteen years ago for growing hemp. Watson for the affair took a lawyer. Who has
this week in Santa Cruz filed a case with the aim of purifying the name of his
client. According to an employee of attorney R. Schentz stands Watson in the
computer, but that is all. There has been no litigation, and therefore no
condemnation. "I was the day of the arrest, not even in Santa Cruz, but in the
Netherlands," is Watson's comments.[/quote]


Not the best translation, but his lawyer was unable to get his name removed in the
dutch court proceedings, he at least admits there was a bust in Santa Cruz which he
now says never happened.


Do you know what exact bust is Sam referring to when he said he wasn't even in the
US? Is it the Sacred Seeds bust? Sam claims that he never got busted and never served
a day in jail. He also said he was the only founding member of Sacred Seeds he has
never mentioned any other growers/members in S.Seeds. If noone else was a member then
who did the police bust in the US since Sam claims he was in Holland at the time?

LOL

Sam did not start The Sacred Seeds Collective... it dates back to pre-illegalisation
and had seed stored at that time that went all the way back to seeds imported in the
teens and early twenties for the then legal market.
Sam The Skunkman and also Romulan Joe formerly known as Mendocino Joe are both
snitches and thieves who ran off with genetics they did not develop and then claimed
the genetics and made beaucoup money. The ONLY thing Sam did with Skunk #1 was to
remove the skunk from it, yet he has the nerve to use the name "Skunkman".

Watson was never anything more than a hangaround with Sacred Seeds and Joe was a
hangaround who could not make the grade to gain a patch with several East Bay Biker
groups who fell in with the Korean War vets who brought what became Romulan back
during the Korean War and carefully cultivated and selected in greenhouses in the
East Bay and South Bay for a decade and a half before Joe showed up.

Sam the Skunkman was in fact present for the famous Santa Cruz bust of Sacred Seeds. Somehow
he got out before anybody else. Long before. And somehow the DEA threw all the seeds,
stored pollen, equipment and whole plants into a dumpster and left it guarded by
nothing but crime scene tape. And then Sam disappeared. Along with a big chunk of the
Sacred Seeds seed bank.


Shantibaba said:
Hi All

listen as it is a touchy topic depending upon the side of the water you are on,
let`s call it a difference of opinion based on similar evidence. The point to all of
this is that certain things are documented well and have been covered in Holland by a
radio program that authenticated their facts before going to air. Make of it what you
wish to believe and let`s be civilised in discussion or remain silent. I do not wish
to begin to tell off people or ban them so please do not make me start....all the
best Sb

Sam and Nevil use to work a bit on strains together but when it was revealed that Sam
and his crew of Americans in Holland all were part of informants for the DEA in
America on a radio program in Holland they split to the UK to do other things. Sam
never started or owned a seed company so his claim to all the strains that became
famous years ago are not really warranted.

Contacting VPRO Argos about the dutch radio station broadcast, below is a very basic
summary of the facts surrounding the VPRO Argos broadcast that is mentioned in the
Dutch Parliamentary records which also spurred a wave of interest in the Dutch media.



I can't help but notice that the VPRO accepts the possibility that the info about the
case may be imprecise if Sam's legal name is different. On the other hand if the
sheriff gave them such info it may well be valid and true..and probably is
considering all the facts.



Thanks to Uncle Sam


After 1985 de quality of Nederwiet improved tremendously. Currently "our" wiet is
considered to be the best. Is that because of Sam Selezny, alias David Watson, the
super breeder from the states? Or is he under orders?

Report: Bas Barkman and Gert Hage

It was a lovely day, spring 1985, when a heavily built American landed at Schiphol
airport. He wore glasses, his long blond hair kept together wih an elastic band.
Without problems he passed customs and shortly afterwards received a warm welcome
from another equally heavily built American.
Seemingly nothing special, certainly not in the crowded arrivals area of an airport.
No one could have known that the lugage of the ponytailed man contained a box full of
seeds- Cannabis seeds.

The box was the reason for Sam Selezny's trip to Holland. He was here by invitation
from two pioneers in the weedgrowing industry. Two companions: Michael Taylor and
Wernard Bruining, the owner of the first coffeeshop in Amsterdam. Although they
already grew some nederwiet, the quality of it was not particulairly special, the
knowledge they possessed of growing wasn't extensive enough.

During that time in Holland, there were probably no more than three big growing
sites, covering a total a maximum of two thousand square meters. In coffeeshops
Marrocan hash was still the most popular.
Sam Selezny, the super grower from the states, as Taylor had announced him to
Bruining, would change this.
It proved to be true. Hardly three months after his arrival the first harvest from
Fat Sam's seeds could be smoked. The connoisseurs where excited, the wiet tasted
good, with a "high" high.


Hardly anyone knew at that time, especially not in Holland, that Sam Selezny, who in
Holland presented himself mainly under the name David Watson, was arrested on the
20th of march that same year in Santa Cruz, California.

It was nine years later in the summer of 1994, when Mario Lap, at that time working
for the Dutch Alcohol and Drugs Institute, tapped Hedy D'acona on the shoulder in
Brussels.
"Hedy, can you tell me why you provided David Watson with a license (to grow)?" Lap
asked the newly appointed MEP and former minister of Health. Lap had only just before
that found out, to his utter astonishment, that Watson, who he only knew by the name
of Selezny, was granted a license to grow marijuana for scientific purposes.
Why on earth Watson, a man with what he had heard a shady past in the states as
illegal grower, a man who also had been detained and who certainly was not a
scientist?
And why not the Academic Medical Center in Amsterdam, which had been after a license
for years to research the medical workings of the plant?
MEP D"Ancona didn't know.
The ministry itself couln't provide Lap with any clearance on the licence which had
been granted on 16th of september 1994, signed by "plaatsvervangend" director general
of health, Drs RJ Samsom.
Lap; "I couldn't find out how it had happened. Very strange. A bit scary too."
In two big greenhouses in Rijsenhout, a village near Schiphol airport, the process
was already under way to develop a cannabis plant with a high THC content, which in
due course could be used as a basis for medicine. Or rather, it was on those terms
that, after years of negotiating, the license was granted.
Three years, with limiting conditions; only chemical analytical research, not more
than 10 grams of THC and a spotless administration.

The office and lab of Hortapharm are based in Schinkelhavenkade in Amsterdam. A
little green building, a big window which in the evenings is covered with a steel
sliding door. Inside it smells of fresh wiet. David Watson is on his guard. He wants
to talk, but demands the final say on every sentence written about his firm. It is
the end of September and Watson is waiting for the decision on the renewal of his
license. "I want to continue with my research" he says, "I cannot use any publicity
which might be possibly disadvantageous to my business.
He is startled when he hears we know the location of his greenhouse. "There are
millions worth of plants and apparatus, no one is allowed to know."
Hanging on the wall behind him are 5 licences, granted by the DEA, a worldwide
operating organization, whose task it is to fight drugs.
Watson doesn't receive his longed for renewal of his license.
The ministry announces at the end of September that, since the minister forbids the
medical supply of cannabis, a license to grow cannabis is no longer in line with the
health ministries' policies. Besides that, during repeated inspections of Hortapharm,
it was found the Admin was not run according to the requirements. The decision is
definite, the two locations where hortapharm is based have to close their doors. On
29 October the Ministery confirms their decision in writing to Hortapharm: The head
officials of Justice in Haarlem and Amsterdam have been informed of the fact the
license has now expired.

On Schinkelhavenkade however, it is business as usual, the director and only
shareholder told us last Monday. He saw the decision of the minister in a different
light. "There are people who want it that way" he said, was his cryptic explanation,
but there are also people who want it in a different way"
From his point of view nothing has changed, an "on-going situation". "There is info,
and there is correct info. They are false statements from the ministry and it's not
the first time. "
He didn't want to comment any further on the matter.

It is not surprising Watson, Alias Sam Selezny is not very willing to talk. Him and
his firm came under fire only recently during a broadcast from the VPRO. This
broadcast even lead to questions being asked in Parliament (about the licence)
The radiomakers had contacted the sheriff of Santa Cruz, who confirmed the arrest of
Watson on March the 20th in 1985, in relation to illegal cannabis growing.
How it was possible Watson could set foot in Holland a month later, no one
understands. Why wasn't he, caught red handed, in prison? As a rule the American
Justice system doesn't show clemency to drug criminals.
There are presumptions, also mentioned in the radioprogramme. Is it possible Watson
struck a deal with American Justice, mainly the DEA? In other words, has he, in
exchange for his freedom agreed to cooperate with the justice system from time to
time?

Questions which are left unanswered.

The DEA never talks, something the enquetecommitee "van Tra" discovered too.

On the 5th of November, Minister Borst answered the questions in Parliament.
No, there had not been a antecedenten investigation in regards to the person
requesting the license.
There had been doubts though about the reliability of the request, especially wether
the cannabis would only be used for scientific purposes. But there was no proof to
turn these doubts into hard facts. On the basis of doubt a license could not be
rejected, in the court of law.
Actively requesting personal information from the police register had never been
done, but she was planning to do so in due course.

Subject closed.

But the case is even stranger than it actually seems.
How did Watson acquire the funds to found Hortapharm? After some research it shows
Watson wasn't only involved in illegal weed growing in the USA, but in Holland too.
Not weedgrowing as a hobby, but on a grand scale, a business worth millions.
It was clear the Dutch Wietgrowers caught a big fish with getting David Watson on
board. A man fascinated by the secrets of the cannabis plant. A man on a mission,
convinced of the blessings of cannabis.

Like every American, he thought big. Just like Michael Taylor, also known as Michael
Rich. They became companions, throwing themselves on the big scale growing of
nederwiet.

Wernard Bruining declined. "It became too big and too fanatic. They wanted to be the
best and biggest, which wasn't necessary for me."
It was annoying for him though that two of his greenhouses were busted shortly after
wards. A coincidence, the police told him, they just happened to come across it. "But
it was the first time they busted a big greenhouse. Before that they had never
managed to do so"

In the summer two big sites where busted, the third empty upon arrival. Various
employees where arrested, Watson and Taylor stayed out of sight. In the "us knows us"
world of growing they were already for some time known as people who pulled the
strings. Shortly after wards stories circulated the two Americans had started again.
Within a few months they had set up a new greenhouse. This one was busted too, but
again no sign of the Americans.

Were they simply too smart, or was it something else, something invisible

(untouchable)?

No one paid too much attention to it. There were suspicions, but the were erased
when the two continued a few years later, undisturbed.
It was the era when partially thanks to Watsons' seed, Holland's masses switched to
nederwiet.

It became an internationally recognized product, the new pearl of the dutch
horticulture.

But in 1992 the calm tide turned, when in the vicinity of Tilburg two massive
growsites were busted, with according to the police 40.000 plants.
Sirens, squat teams, broken doors and a lot of screaming. Two of the approximately
fifteen suspects broke down practically straight away under questioning and mentioned
the name Watson as the big man and investor behind the wiet operation. Justice didn't
act. Didn't ask questions about him, didn't even investigate the large amount of
funds which apparently left the country via Luxemburg.

Watson was and remained, to the surprise of many, a free man and founded Hortapharm
that same year.

Supported by advisers he started negotiating with the health ministery about
acquiring a license. One of these advisors was ex police commissioner (?) K Sietsema,
at that time already active as Private detective. "If I know Hortapharm? If we're
talking about the same firm then yes, " Sietsema says; "but I don't talk about my
clients, a kind of code of honor"

In the world of the wiet growers suspicion arose. One after the other growsite was
busted, tens of people disappeared behind bars, but one of the biggest and probably
best could continue without any disturbances.

That the American Godfather of Nederwiet had such good contacts that he could
continue to practice his profession legally for three years, the ultimate breeders'
dream, was considered utterly strange.

Coincidence?

The arrest in 1985, the large scale busts of grow sites without any consequences for
Watson or his Companion, Hortapharm and its first license, the advisor Sietsema, it
was too much of a good thing.
Were Watson and Rich DEA informers after all, as some people had claimed them to be
before?
"They started at the right side, but Watson had little choice" Bruining thinks; "It
was or going to jail or cooperate with the American Justice system."
Mario Lap, who amongst other things advices the PVDA (dutch political party) on
drugs problems, is sure of his case.

His last bit of doubt dissapeared upon discovering that the Australian Police was
in possession of a list, compiled by Watson, of renowned Dutch breeders, including a
precise description of their products, even mentioning the genetic codes. Handy
with the eye on the plans of the ministry of health to make growing indoors illegal.
"Instantly those creeps have the monopoly, later on they'll be the only ones
allowed to breed the seeds, which is what it is about" lap says bitterly.

Which would make the DEA mission successful. They have the names of the breeders,
their products and eventually the market of neder weed in hands.
The DEA has thus proven not only to be champion of controlled drug flow, but has
also proven itself to be the best wiet grower in the world."

Copyright: HP/De Tijd 5-12-1997.


Neville said:
Neither Marco or Joe Pietri checked the statements that JP attributed to me before
publishing. Before making statements that are damaging to someone's reputation, you
need to be sure of your facts, or have first hand knowledge.
I stand by my testimony re Sam. I was there, I had the documents from the Australian
Federal Police that Sam gave me and I passed them on to Mario Lap. The rest is
history.
I don't know what Sam has said to Marco, to do an about face like that. JP's article
was not factual and therefore an apology is in order, however it does not mean that
ALL of the allegations were false, I know they are not.
N.(nevil)

......

Very true Nev, Sam has cleverly swung this to look like the victim, there is a thread
at icmag where guys like chimera and tom hill are screaming mad and saying Marco
needs to do this and that to make right, give money to a charity of skunkman's choice
etc.
I would love to step into that thread and say 'hang on, just cos JP was talking
shite, doesn't make Sam an angel' but it would be deleted asap so why bother.
Maybe it is time to tell your side of the story Nev. I've had some articles
published in Marco's magazine, if you wanna provide the info I'd take the time to
write an article, but given Marco's new stance he might not want to publish it.

.......

I've done that. I've limited my story to the facts. I could speculate what else Sam
and Rob had in mind when they tried to get me to explain my pedigrees to the feds
(patents), but the fact remains that they tried to get me to work with the cops in
order to give people more jail time for what we all do, grow dope. This makes him a
"dog" in the Australian vernacular. It's all I need to know.
N.



dbud1369 said:
It is about seeking the truth. So with that in mind, we all know that
Nev spent time in jail for his bust (about a year) without ever being charged.... but
when Sam got busted in '85, then showed up in Amsterdam - did he spend time in
jail, was he charged? And name ONE other company that has a DEA exemption to use
Cannabis in the US, just one??? any one???? There aren't ANY? There have been
Doctors who have tried to get permission to get and use Cannabis to do studies and
have been repeatedly DENIED > But they [Hortipharm] get the only Import/Export
DEA approved Cannabis use. They (GW) own about 11 patents on cannabis (cannabinoids)
and uses and extractions. How does the ball bounce so high in one direction for
Sam, he got all the breaks in the early 90's and all the way through. I know for a
fact that there have been many uses of Cannabis for testing purposes (like Brown
University) and the DEA won't even acknowledge that they DID a study. But let's
ask someone who would know about the FEDS caring about patients, like their OWN
FEDERAL PATIENT Irv Rosenfeld - the federal gov't never has done a follow up on any
of the 13 original IND patients(ya know the ones who can legally smoke cannabis
WHEREVER THEY WANT per FEDERAL GOV"T) check out the Missoula study for a follow up on
Irv (done by my friends here in Montana)

There's no jail time in '85 for Mr. Sam. and if served it was very short and
un-documented. Then showed up in EUROPE with Ed Rosenthal? weird connection to make
along the way. The "third party DEA " permit to Import/Export Cannabis in US. There
are doctors and universitys that apply for this to to studies and repeatedly get
denied.... In fact there are now reports in one state that when a Laboratory filed
for Sched. I drug handling permit .. they got raided the next week (THIS HAPPEND
TWICE ) - The DEA permit allows the handling and possesion of Cannabis for research
and Scientific purposes only. - (ya know like what GW is doing) but for them to deny
any other University or Doctor access to handle this plant and to continue on with
recoginized studies.... they control it all. The DEA has colaborated with GW and SAM
- in ca-hoots if you will.


Marco Renda upon lawyers consult made a public apology to sam for a previous article
written in TY in which Joe Petri, another DEA informant, was quoted outing 'sam the
skunkman' as a fellow DEA Snitch.


Matt Rize said:
TRUTH will never be revealed on this topic, because sam won't let it out. He denies
an '85 arrest...? That's just the start.
He hasn't commented on marco's apology on ic... and you know he has seen it, he is a
damn mod with 1000 snitches/fanboys over there, and they censor every post with
financial and political scrutiny.
Seems if he is hiding the truth it is most likely for a good reason. No one wants to
deal with the skeletons, especially regarding huge illegal transactions, lol.

Marco Renda said:
All I was told is that Sam has 3rd party contracts. Sorry but I have never seen a DEA
contract before so I really don't know what is on 1.

Sam the Skunkman is the one collaborating with Monsanto to produce GMO modified
cannabis along with herbicide ready varieties and strains ****with NO THC content****
HortiPharm ( Clarke and Watson) sold the HortiPharm genetic library to GW
Pharmaceuticals. And GW is connected to Bayer Pharmaceuticals. Bayer is the money
behind the acquisition of close to 40k acres within the Emerald Triangle. That
partnership bought Bayer the licensing for Sativex in the US as the only competitor
for Marinol.

Read Dr. David Malmo-Levine sometime on where all this crap is going

Google patent number 6,630,507


"sam" is a conspiring thief who cornered the market by turning in his competition to
the DEA

Lets put another myth to rest , Sam wasn't the FIRST American to get to The
Netherlands , nor was he the first to bring Kush region genetics to Norcal or even
the primary source of 'em.
In point of *fact* there are records of Indica genetics in this country dating
***from the days of prior legality*** and mostly in the regions in which the medical
cannabis of that time were raised. And Bigpharma of THAT era was heavily invested in
cannabis.


Sam's beef with Neville seems clear enough: Neville sold strains to Ben Dronkers’
Sensi Seeds while Sam sold the same ones to GW Pharm leaving questions of "property
rights" for when cannabis became normalized.

If it was just ego on the line, that would be one thing. Unfortunately there is much
more at stake, especially in light of the fact the Bitter Petrols, Original Gangsters
and M16s of the world are all in fact hybrids derived from lines Skunkman and company
would like everyone to believe are their responsibility. And it doesnt take very long
to see how that benefits these individuals in the long run and how that could affect
the "community" later.


Its amazing what one can find with a little bit of research. I found the information
below quite significant, in that it clearly shows Hortapharm is providing samples of
cannabis (presumably Skunk #1 and other common varieties used in today's modern
breeding scene) which are being used to "establish conspiracy in the cultivation of
marijuana"

How many varieties of cannabis are hybridized with Skunk#1, or Northern Lights,
White Widow, Haze, etc? If these samples are sent to testing facilities funded by the
United States government, which are then being used as evidence in conspiracy charges
against growers and maybe even breeders, think of the ultimate implications of
Hortapharms cooperation with the Drug Enforcement Administration. If you've got a
variety of cannabis related to the samples provided by Hortapharm, and find yourself
on the wrong end of the law and your plants are then analyzed and found to be
genetically related to the samples provided by Hortapharm, that information can then
be used as evidence to support a conspiracy in cultivation charge not just against
you, but perhaps those who provided the seeds to you and even the breeder themselves.

With some time pondering over the ultimate outcome(s) that this research could yield
in terms of potential legal ramifications against many well known names in the
industry today, one can not take this information lightly or simply over look it as
so many of you have chosen to do thus far. Potentially anyone not associated with
Hortapharm could find themselves a target from the samples of cannabis provided to
the US government for this research. Pillars of the breeding industry such as Skunk
#1, Northern Lights, Haze, White Widow etc. are the basic building blocks of
commercialized seed today. Their prevalence in breeding programs around the world
today is not questioned, thus making professional and amateur seed alike related in
some shape, form or fashion to these lines extremely common. And thus rounding into
the potential for anyone not associated with Hortapharm to become a target simply
based on genetic relation of their strains to those of the samples Hortapharm has
provided the government to use in the aiding and abetting of bringing conspiracy of
cultivation charges against anyone who finds themselves on the wrong end of the law.



Genetic Variation in Hemp and Marijuana (Cannabis sativa L.) According to Amplified Fragment Length Polymorphisms*
Shannon L. Datwyler, Ph.D. 1,2 ; and George D. Weiblen, Ph.D. 2
1 Department of Plant Biology, University of Minnesota, 1445 Gortner Avenue, Saint
Paul, MN 55108.
2 Present Address: Department of Biological Sciences, California State University,
Sacramento, 6000 J Street, Sacramento, CA 95819.
Correspondence to Additional information and reprint requests:
George D. Weiblen, Ph.D
Department of Plant Biology
University of Minnesota
1445 Gortner Avenue
Saint Paul, MN 55108
E-mail: gweiblen@umn.edu

*HortaPharm B.V. (the Netherlands) and Kenex Ltd. (Canada) provided controlled
substances for research registered and permitted by the United States Drug
Enforcement Administration and the Minnesota Board of Pharmacy with support from the
David and Lucille Packard Foundation and the Minnesota Agricultural Experiment
Station. The study was first presented at the Botanical Society of America Annual
Meeting in 2004 at Snowbird, Utah.
Copyright Copyright © 2006 by American Academy of Forensic Sciences
KEYWORDS
forensic science • DNA typing • amplified fragment length polymorphism • analysis of
molecular variance • heterozygosity • DNA fingerprinting • sex linkage

ABSTRACT

ABSTRACT: Cannabis sativa L. (Cannabaceae) is one of the earliest known cultivated
plants and is important in the global economy today as a licit and an illicit crop.
Molecular markers distinguishing licit and illicit cultivars have forensic utility,
but no direct comparison of hemp and marijuana amplified fragment length polymorphism
(AFLP) has been made to date. Genetic variation was surveyed in three populations of
fiber hemp and a potent cultivar of marijuana using AFLP markers. Ten primer pairs
yielded 1206 bands, of which 88% were polymorphic. Eighteen bands represented fixed
differences between all fiber populations and the drug cultivar. These markers have
practical utility for (1) establishing conspiracy in the cultivation and distribution
of marijuana, (2) identifying geographic sources of seized drugs, and (3)
discriminating illegal, potent marijuana cultivars from hemp where the cultivation of
industrial hemp is permitted.

Received 17 Dec. 2005; and in revised form 21 July and 3 Oct. 2005; accepted 22 Oct.
2005; published 13 Feb. 2006.



Here's another one.




Identification of candidate genes affecting Δ9-tetrahydrocannabinol biosynthesis in Cannabis sativa
M. David Marks,1* Li Tian,2† Jonathan P. Wenger,1 Stephanie N. Omburo,1 Wilfredo
Soto-Fuentes,1 Ji He,2 David R. Gang,3 George D. Weiblen,1 and Richard A. Dixon2

Plant growth and gland isolation

Seeds from the marijuana cultivar Skunk no. 1 were provided by HortaPharm BV
(Amsterdam, The Netherlands) and imported under a US Drug Enforcement Administration
(DEA) permit to a registered controlled substance research facility.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2736886/pdf/erp210.pdf



Here are some quotes from, and about ole' sam, the crusader for cannabis.


Speaking at the International Cannabinoid Research Society (ICRS) conference in
Montpellier, Dr Geoffrey W Guy, Chairman of GW Pharmaceuticals, said that HortaPharm
will provide GW with exclusive access to its entire range of cannabis varieties for
the development of medicines. The worldwide rights acquired by GW for an undisclosed
sum cover varieties grown to date with certain exceptions and all varieties to be
bred in future.


In addition GW will fund HortaPharm's botanical research and HortaPharm scientists
will assist in the UK Glasshouse propagation, cloning and cultivation programme.
Dr Guy, said: "There has been much speculation as to the exact role of the various
chemical components of cannabis in treating patients with illnesses such as Multiple
Sclerosis and AIDS wasting syndrome. In particular THC (the psychoactive constituent
chemical) has received much attention. Historical medical reports and more recent
work may point to the influence of cannabidiol (CBD) in epilepsy and stroke for
example. We wish to explore the therapeutic benefits and the potential for reduction
in unwanted effects that may be offered through administration of complete extracts
containing various defined ratios of the principal cannabinoids."

Mr David Watson, Chief Executive of HortaPharm commented "HortaPharm leads the world
in its understanding of cannabis botany and has built up over many years the most
extensive 'Living Library' of Medicinal Cannabis varieties. As soon as Dr Guy's
clinical research indicates the exact desired composition our scientists can breed
and register new medicinal varieties".

http://production.investis.com/gwpharmaceuticals/releases/1998-07-23/?version=1

http://www.gwpharm.com/Details rele...ticals and Hortapharm medicinal cannabis.aspx


"It looks like dope, but really it's hope," explains the proprietor, American
entrepreneur David Watson. What he means is that many of these plants have been
specifically bred not to produce an intoxicating resin or hashish. Indeed, HortaPharm
hopes to thwart the aims of the average recreational user.

The team are already close to finding their own commercial Holy Grail - seeds that
will produce a one-off, female, seedless crop of plants with no psychotropic effects
(or THC highs, to the layman) for the consumer. Why, you might ask, would they want
to do that?

.....


Mr Watson and his Dutch colleague, biochemist Etienne de Meijer, are confident that
by using their own exclusive cross-breeding methods, they can develop healthy plants
which will combine only the desired chemical make-up of individual medicines.

There will be no generational deterioration and no genetic difference between each
plant because they will be bred from themselves: they will be cloned. "You can clone
a plant 10 times," explains Mr de Meijer, "and every time it will be exactly the
same."
Mr de Meijer has developed his own technique of "self-progeny" - or "selfing" -
where he turns half of one female plant temporarily into a male. Fertilising a plant
with itself in this way means the same genetic make-up can be reproduced.

"I can make 20,000 clones with 'selfed' parents in two weeks," he says. "Humans may
degenerate from inbreeding, but these plants do not. I'm sure I am the first person
to apply this method of inbreeding to cannabis and I found the selfing process was
amazingly simple."

But the unique research has no market in Holland. "Because the sale of the drug is
tolerated in coffee shops, there is no interest - though people don't really know
what they are buying," says Mr Watson.

.....


As a result, the seeds that HortaPharm is producing are passed straight on to Britain
to take their place in the soil at the ground-breaking facility set up this summer by
Dr Geoffrey Guy in south-east England. "We hooked up with Dr Guy in January and right
now all we are doing is providing the basic building blocks for his work," says Mr
Watson. "We were rather surprised that it would happen in England first."
HortaPharm's sample plants are analysed in the laboratory with a gas chromatographer
and with each new batch the team homes in on the plant's distinct chemical components
or cannabinoids - THC, CBD, CBC, CBG and THCV. When Dr Guy completes his medical
research in Britain, HortaPharm will breed plants to supply the right combination of
active ingredients for his treatments. "Once Dr Guy has worked out what he wants in
chemical form, we will find him the right physical characteristics, too, by combining
desirable features from plants found around the world - high-resin production and
resistance to disease," says Mr de Meijer.

HortaPharm is only interested in developing female plants that are sterile, but this
is not just to protect their genetic copyright. "If a plant is not kept busy
producing seeds, all its energy can go into resin production," says Mr de Miejer.


Sitting at his computer screen in Amsterdam, Mr Watson can keep an eye on the
perimeter fence at Dr Guy's British farm via the internet. "The security he has there
is amazing," says Mr Watson, who flew out to plant the first seeds there two months
ago.

In June, Dr Guy's company, G W Pharmaceuticals, secured the first British licence to
grow the plant for medical purposes. By arrangement with the Home Office, the doctor
can farm cannabis plants and investigate their properties with a view to marketing a
cheap herbal-based answer to the debilitating symptoms of MS, Glaucoma, Parkinson's,
cancer, asthma and Aids.

Cannabis: a year that changed minds | The Independent
.....


There is no question that GW plans to enforce its patents on Sativex, which is a
precisely dosed medicine. Warns Guy: “To protect our extensive investment, we have
sought to identify and patent certain inventions throughout the growing, extraction
and manufacturing process. My comments to Mr. Lucas were made as a friendly and,
hopefully, helpful gesture as I did not wish him to invest a great amount of effort
into obtaining approval for a product as a prescription medicine only to find that he
did not have the freedom to operate in the first place.”

Guy’s warning was reiterated shortly after I arrived in England to interview him,
when Mark Rogerson, GW’s grey-templed, elegantly dressed, public relations man, met
me at the Oxford train station. “Once it’s approved and Sativex becomes a medicine
under the law, there needs to be a minor change in legislation so it can be
prescribed,” he said, as he steered his Hyundai (his Audi was in the shop) into
near-gridlock. “The Home Office has already said they will do that, and then patients
will be taking a legal medicine. But if you are an MS sufferer, it would still be
illegal for you to grow cannabis at the bottom of the garden to treat your symptoms.
Our medicine will be legal, but anything else will not be.”

http://www.walrusmagazine.com/print/2005.02-medicine-medical-marijuana-activist/
............


Speaking at the International Cannabinoid Research Society (ICRS) conference in
Montpellier, Dr Geoffrey W Guy, Chairman of GW Pharmaceuticals, said that HortaPharm
will provide GW with exclusive access to its entire range of cannabis varieties for
the development of medicines. The worldwide rights acquired by GW for an undisclosed
sum cover varieties grown to date with certain exceptions and all varieties to be
bred in future. Plant registrations arising from the Dutch breeding programme will be
owned by GW.

http://www.gwpharm.com/Details rele...ticals and Hortapharm medicinal cannabis.aspx
........


At a secret location in southeastern England, GW Pharmaceuticals has built what
might well be the most high-tech pot palace on the planet. Surrounded by electrified
razor wire, video cameras, and motion detectors, the greenhouse sprawls across more
than an acre of land. At any one time, more than 15,000 marijuana plants are growing
under its 14-foot ceiling, with its banks of lights. Inside is a sea of green,
comprised of some of the world's most potent strains of pot: Hindu Kush, White Widow,
Skunk, Northern Lights. Outside of the Netherlands, GW is the only commercial
organization in Europe licensed to cultivate cannabis on this scale.

Page Not Found
.....


“Monsanto terminator technology is being applied to Cannabis by (David Watson) at Hortapharm in Holland".'

http://community.kpfz.org/node/17

Quote: “Terminator seeds are genetically engineered to produce a plant that will not
produce viable seed, meaning that growers would be forced to go back to Monsanto each
year to buy more seed stock to replant. Governments and public alike became wary of
the concept when it was discovered that the terminator seed could possibly cross the
species barrier, possibly spreading infertility among the plant kingdom like a
disease.”

Quote: As we can learn from the Mayans in the foregoing article, the concept of
saving seeds is sacred and central to their spiritual and physical way of life. The
same is true for cultural and religious practices all around the world, whether
you’re a Christian, Buddhists, Hindu, Muslim, Jew, or just a plain old Human Being,
the concept of saving seed is as old as human society itself. If corporations like
Monsanto, GW Pharma, Bayer and HortaPharm are allowed to carry out there interests,
they will hold the genetic copyrights to all Cannabis strains on the planet. GW
Pharma and HortaPharm have stated their intent to engineer Cannabis strains similar
to Monsanto’s terminator seed technology. Their strains seem to be artificially
manipulated to produce "one-off sterile females" which prevents reproduction of
harvest-able seeds. These are the kinds of strains that are waiting to be controlled,
regulated, licensed and taxed after the potential passage of proposition 19 in
California and many similar initiatives across the United States being funded
directly by Monsanto shareholders.

Quote: “Cannabis seeds from Monsanto are almost definitely genetically engineered.
Genetically engineered plants can be patented, and it is in Monsanto's best interest
to hold a patent on any seed they sell. Seed patents ensure that companies like
Monsanto can continue to profit from seeds from year to year, as farmers are legally
bound to buy patented seeds from the patent holder rather than simply store them from
the last year's crop.”

Quote: “Evidence of an attempted Canadian medical marijuana monopoly began back in
2000, with a leaked, unpublished document entitled "Draft Statement of Work for The
Development of a Comprehensive Operation for the Cultivation and Fabrication of
Marijuana in Canada". The plan called for a seed monopoly - "a licit source" only -
and the eventual phase-out of all but a pharmaceutical "inhaler" device. According to
the anonymous source who leaked the document, the first version of the plan also
called for cannabis strains to be patented "as if they had been genetically
modified". It appears that GW Pharmaceutical and Bayer have now done so with the
Cannabis strain "Grace".”

Quote: “Cannabis monopolies are nothing new. One can argue that the prohibition of
Moses's holy kanneh-bosm annointing oil - found in Exodus 30:32 - a prohibition for
people other than priests and kings - was a type of cannabis monopoly. When botanical
medicine became popular again in the fourteen hundreds, women healers were first
called "unschooled" and later called "witches" to prevent them from competing with
the newly emerging male pharmacists. The same thing happened in the mid eighteen
hundreds, except this time instead of "witches", these botanical healers were called
"quacks".”

Quote: “A source within the Ministry of Health, who wishes to remain anonymous, has
provided documents and information to Cannabis Culture, describing how Canadian pot
is to be grown for upcoming medical trials. The documents call for 185 kg (408
pounds) of pot to be grown in the first year, and double that amount for the second
through fifth years.”
“The thirty-five page guideline document, with the weighty title, Draft Statement of
Work for The Development of a Comprehensive Operation for the Cultivation and
Fabrication of Marijuana in Canada, is still open to revisions. It includes proposals
for how marijuana should be grown, processed and fabricated. Included in these
guidelines is the potential to give a notorious pharmaceutical company exclusive
rights for selling seeds to the budding medpot industry.”


Round-Up ready cannabis here we come!


That is sam's contribution to our community aside from ruining Skunk.
Terminator seeds owned by GW pharm
How much in royalties might be owed once all common "building block" strains are
patented like romulan, white widow, haze, skunk #1, northern lights et.al?


Patents on cannabis strains are not gonna be a good thing for anyone but ole' sam.

Especially since Bayer now has been licensed by GW Pharma to produce Sativex ,
Monsanto is in the mix and of course HortiPharm turned over and licensed their
genetic base to GW (and of course ya need to research Kennex an Novartis in all this)
All courtesy of the sellout of the weed world and friggin pirate extraordinaire David
Watson pissant snitch that he was/is along with the bitch known as Robert Connell
Clarke
The powergrab by BigPharma on MMJ is already here , the folks that *think* they're "
movers and shakers" within the industry currently such as Richard Lee , Ken Estes (
both of whom have the ethics of a shithouse rat) , Harborside etc are being moved out
for the arrival of the BIG players.
And they're after patenting the genetics. Especially around the new high CBD strain
push. And of course the jackass pirates have moved into THAT area too , like it's
anything new since the pre-prohibition " Hemp" strains were very high in CBD and CBN
while having a low THC content. But since those strains ***are still in existence and
grown in much of the world for industrial hemp*** the seed companies are trying to
keep 'em from the Med market , and JUST the "medical" seed market worldwide is a
MULTI billion dollar a year business.

And again, HortiPharm is the **ONLY** DEA licensed seed and gentics production
company in the world. Supplies genetics to the labs and facility at U of Miss , and
David Watson didn't exist prior to his arrival in A'Dam in '85 , somehow toting along
somewhere between 5 and 20 lbs of seed..........odd isn't it that HE got out after
the Sacred Seeds bust and the rest of the folks didn't , and when you're running from
the DEA how do you turn up in A'Dam with pretty much ALL the NorCal genetics in tow?






More history from Shantibaba, to give you insight:

Now to clear up the story and myths that go around, due mainly to people in the
industry(other seed companies) who are more interested in making money than giving
information that is correct. Haze brothers worked on the Haze’s and they did get to
Sam and Nevil(owner of THE SEEDBANK…and then Ben Dronkers retailed Nevils strains
under the label of SENSI SEEDBANK after Nevil had some jail time in Australia .Nevil
was the first seed bank or company to exist in Holland so his legendary strains such
as Northern lights 5, Ultra skunk , Nl5 Haze, Early pearl , Early girl, Shiva
Skunk….and so on became the basis for a lot of offspring seed companies that followed
in the 90s.

In fact companies like Dutch passion and Nirvana began by copying Nevils seeds from
the F1 seed…but most of them would never say so as they are Dutch business men who
see dollars first and not genetics….Sam and Nevil use to work a bit on strains
together but when it was revealed that Sam and his crew of Americans in Holland all
were part of informants for the DEA in America on a radio program in Holland they
split to the UK to do other things. Sam never started or owned a seed company so his
claim to all the strains that became famous years ago are not really warranted. He
did however do a lot of work on Skunk and shared some seed with Nevil, but as you
know for breeding you cannot just take any plant and make a strain like Greenhouse
does nowadays. I was working in Australia on varieties like Mullumbimby madness and
Thai and Columbia strains of sativas, as well as a lot of original Afghan stock. When
I came to Holland in 1990 with my seed stock I linked up with Nevil , and used
Arjan’s coffeeshops to introduce strains of cannabis and a little later the seed
versions, but we never gave any of the plants to him.Arjan just sold seed produced by
Nevil and myself. I co founded the Greenhouse Seed Company with Arjan in 1994(unlike
Arjan’s claim it began in 1985 from him alone…he was angry that I sold my half share
to him and left in 1998 to Switzerland and to open Mr Nice Seedbank with Nevil and
Howard…but I was and still am the sole owner of MNS). In 1995 I came out with the
seed version of White widow, then White Rhino 1996 and White Shark 1997…el nino1998 ,
Himalayan gold and so on. Nevil and I co worked on some Haze strains during the early
to mid 90s of which Super Silver Haze and Mango Haze were two strains that eventually
came out of this work.The seed was sold under the Greenhouse Seed co label but Nevil
held those plants and only sold the seed of these varieties as well as the weed
version that won all those awards.So as to help Arjan sell the correct weed we set up
our own independent grow rooms and produced those weeds and Arjan bought them all so
as no other Dutch shop could compete. In those days the Greenhouse sold the correct
weed and seed.But in 1998 when I won all the cups with Nevil(including Shantibaba’s
Hash for best nederhash) I was givien a better offer by a Swiss group to set up a
medical cannabis farm and distil oil…so I sold my share to Arjan and left. A lot of
people were shocked as they thought we were a solid unit but actually Arjan was over
the top already with his success and his ego was too much to listen to and
considering the Swiss thing had unlimited possibility where as Holland was stuck at
being glorified dope dealers….as it still is today. Medical was more my interest.

I took all my plants which made the seeds, especially my fathers and Nevil put all
his plants with me so together we had a library of all genetics possible in the
cannabis world. Nevil soon sold his part in one of the coffeeshops and had a big
problem with Arjan too…but it took another year or two for them to split. Take a look
at the High times Cannabis cup after 1998, so 1999 onwards….only while Nevil was
there did they win with SSH, but that soon left with Nevil and Arjan even got caught
cheating or trying to bribe people to win cup…so was disqualified one year.

A lot of stories exist about the Widow family and a lot of people had access to some
of the female versions I left in Holland and soon began claiming to be the creature
etc….but the original seed versions that won the first cup in 1995 came from my
plants not anyone else’s. Till today we have all the plants in original form. Franco,
the Italian working for Arjan now does not even know the original plants as he did
not come on the scene till after I left. I have nothing against him at all but he is
paid by Arjan and is part of that show so believes what ever is feed to him. The GHSco
tried to get things going by buying some seed Nev and I had for sale from a guy in
Holland during this time. The guy called me up and told me Arjan bought a few
thousand euros of this seed and a year later came out with seed under the well known
names he had used previously. The growers could not know this until they grew it out
and considering a lot of people never grew it before they did not even know what they
were looking at and still do not.So many seed companies use the names like White
widow but the genetics are all different. I wrote out the true origins of the plant
and everyone copied that so it looks like everyone is selling the same genetics but
it is they are all selling a name that sells…nothing more.Ask Franco to show you a
photo of the original parents that make the widow…he cannot as he has never seen
them.The Ghsco linked up with others like Ingemar who claims to be the widow breeder
but he is only a grower and he never came out with a seed version until after I made
it in 1995. But all the facts have become mixed and people try to confuse the grower
by claiming things that no one else can prove to be correct or wrong…as there are no
rules in the seed game since all cannabis is actually not recognized in the official
plant world as sub species due to it being drug related. So in actual fact no one
owns nothing…even all the trademarked R after the names you see from various seed
companies are all bullshit as they are not really able to protect any names as the
plants do not officially exist…but that is another story.

In the late 90s I gave plants to Soma, and he began a seed company a year later
too…mixing his skunks to my males. This has occurred many times to me just look at
the Spanish seed companies and 10 years ago…none existed until I went there in 1995
and gave away 3 kilos of seed to growers via Canamo magazine….but that is another
story too.

Now the female seed story saved a lot of seed companies who never really breed seed
as you only need a F1 female and chemicals….no need for a male…..so go figure why
companies like the Greenhouse or Dinafem etc…set up selling female seed…..the money
the demand and not really needing skill with males are all prerequisites to make a
female seed. It is therefore obvious to me why Arjan (who is a very marketing person
nothing more) and Franco come out every year with a new name plant…they buy an
original F1 seed and donk it with silver nitrates and there you have there products…
but now adays there are so many doing it it is incredible. Even companies have called
me to tell me they feminised a clone of Critical mass in spain and call it critical
plus….but say nothing more than thanks. So actually I really do not care any longer
about other companies and what they say. We at MNS sell the real versions that won
the original awards and made the legends…nowadays it is all confused and everyone is
going feminised…except MNS. We exist so people who like to breed will be able to with
the original true breed plants that come from selection and natural collection from
traveling around the world. As they say, an empty barrel makes a louder noise…and we
are full.

ShantiBaba



Cannabis Farmer said:
Who is Sam the Skunkman and where did he come from? Better yet, whom is he really
backed by?
As with almost everything these days the hidden agendas of those who are trying to
control the weed market, or any power organization, the theories abound. To me, in my
opinion, there is only the gut feelings and organizational independence to keep you
on a straight path.
Cannabis Farmer is always interested in weed, how to grow and how to cultivate.
Having spent the better part of 45 years in the search for knowledge and power in the
plant have provided an abundance of providence.
In the first case I should admit to personally knowing Joe Petri both in the early
days in the Far East and these later days of his activism on the west coast of the
USA. For the most part I stay the Cannabis Farmer, just dedicated to growing and
sharing – as we did back in San Francisco during the mid sixties. It was Joe who
brought the first, and best, water pressed Afghan to us. I remember it well. Smoking
it for the first time in Aaron Russo’s rock venue in Chicago.

I watched as Joe worked the scene in Bombay and created the market for American
Touristers to Australia. An amazing run. Joe was creative and helped a lot of people
make a living from their lifestyles. I do not know of one instance where Joe “turned”
on anyone but I did see some abandoned runners. Who they were running for is where it
gets cloudy and Joe was not close enough to be on the bad edge.

Perhaps Joe’s abrasive tone does not sit well with many, but his idea is straight as
an arrow. Cannabis is a plant, its use is no business of governments and there should
be no laws granting or taking any right to a natural plant or imbibing in it. Freedom
does not allow governments to tell you what to do with plants unless you give them
the rights to tell you how to live. Did you?

Joe Petri reflects what Cannabis Farmer’s live for – weed for whatever you want. This
puts him at odds with the sellouts who try to subvert the effort at ending
prohibition using the lame excuse of medical necessity. Who does not have some pain,
some problem, something? So what?

Cannabis is a simple plant, a weed, and its control by government is just wrong. What
started as a corporate terrorist action to tax cannabis out of existence by Morgan
banks and Dupont Chemicals (to capitalize the patents for synthetic fiber – which are
running out and the reason laws are being eased) has been replaced with extreme
disinformation about a simple weed. All this obscuring the fact that government,
particularly one under the original US Constitution, has no right making a plant
illegal. Joe Petri campaigness for the end of prohibition, he, and we, fight for the
same thing. Others want to allow continued government control over what we can and
cant do with plants – by letting government control the plant under their medical
system.

This allows a joke to be made of medical marijuana in so far as you only need to find
your doctor Feelgood and get a paper to buy it. But it leaves the control of a plant
under the government.

Sam the Skunkman? Well, I have not had any personal contact with this gentleman and
the contact here is the most I have had. I had seen him around the “scene” for years
promoting bubble bags at the various conferences, but he did not make it to my level.
Maybe he was too much in Amsterdam and not in the world of global marketing? Mostly I
have seen him pushing the mud bags, the worst rip off in Cannabis history. Trying to
sell bags and more bags to ignorant stoners, sort of an easy job.
The case Sam the Skunkman makes on my blog to lambaste Petri is weak at best. Calling
him a snitch when it is he who should be wary of such labels. Skunkman has spent his
time in trying to corner the coming legal cannabis market by getting on the top of
the government distribution. One must have some kind of connection to get to this
level and that is why Sam the Skunkman has problems with credibility.

Since the DEA and CIA will not disclose the names of their agents or snitches it will
be impossible to verify the veracity of anyone working for them. It is up to you to
decide where you will place your confidence.

As for me, the Cannabis Farmer, I like Joe and I think Skunkman an arrogant agent of
mis-information as he pushes a lot of people at the top of the junk pile and his
horrible bubble bags.



Detroitmike said:
High Times-Operation Green Merchant-Cannabis Cup



On March 20th 1985 David Watson was busted for growing in Santa Cruz, California,
Watson a junior member of the Sacred Seed collective. The Sacred Seed bank collective
was created in the 1940’s, most original members long gone or well into there 70’s, a
generation or more older than I, I’m 63, and have been in Cannabis trade 50 years
and I can only speak from my 50 years experience of fighting the drug war.
A month later, Watson, now traveling as Sam Selezny arrived in Amsterdam in the
company of Ed Rosenthal. In his baggage, were the research from the sacred seed
collective, and 250,000 cannabis seeds. Ed Rosenthal introduced Sam Selezny as David
Watson to everyone who was anyone at the time on the Dutch scene. Which was very
small compared to what it is today.
Surviving members still question how Watson managed to pull this off? A collective
member states that Watson was a junior member, had nothing to do with creating Skunk
or`haze strains attributed to Skunk-man as he is now known. Original Skunk had the
real skunk spray smell, impossible to mask.

The first time I met Skunk-man at the 2007 cup his first comment to me was that I
blew his cover due to a chapter in my book King of Nepal The Ice Wars edition? He
even put up wanted posters for me at the cup calling me a snitch. On the scenes I
came from if was a snitch I’d be dead long ago.

By the time you finish this article you may realize that Sam Selezny aka David Watson
aka Skunk-man started as a DEA undercover agent, whose undercover career makes Donnie
Brasco pale when compared, since he finally became a DEA licensee and ”private
contractor” with the power to make the agency move against competitors
and anybody in his way and to cut deals with Bayer, Monsanto, and the Dutch and
English Government. Ed Rosenthal’s duped by Watson as well? Rosenthal was the
cultivation expert at High Times at that time.

Was Watson/Selezny working undercover to bring Sacred Seed collective down? Then used
Ed Rosenthal to develop his Skunk-man cover and go deeper undercover in Amsterdam?
Did Rosenthal make his fortune from selling our scene to the Dutch due to Reagan drug
war policy, which shut down ol skool, and any High Times competitor upstart? At what
point did Ed Rosenthal realize that Skunk-man was DEA undercover?
Neiderweit went from shit to shineola with the introduction of the sacred seed
collective’s seed bank, now renamed Cultivator’s Choice.

In 1987 Steven Hager was named the new editor for High Times. Operation Green
Merchant was also created in 1987 the brainchild of DEA agent Jim Stewart. The target
being High Times, and Sensimilla Tips, as well as the blossoming Indoor grow
industry. Sensimilla Tips, the all time best grow magazine was put out of business.
In 1989, raids were conducted in 46 states on grow shops and wholesalers. The only
one to remain unscathed was High Times, amazingly?

Operation Green Merchant worked many angles. One that they pulled off in Hawaii was
they opened a grow store in Kona, partied, smoked and got to know some growers,. They
offered growers a deal, we will give you seeds, nutrients, what ever you need, you
grow the product and bring it here where we will ship it to your people, you collect
the money and pay us a share. Only a few went for the deal at first, that went super
smooth, all packages arrived safely, monies paid, and the share given to grow shop.
2nd year everyone jumped on board, they busted people from Kona to Brooklyn, You can
only imagine the numbers, 100’s of folks lost everything, many went to prison..
Nearly all busted in 46 States came from information seized from High Times and
Sensimilla tips, hell all they needed to do was read the magazine, which is how DEA
Jim Stewart came up with the idea for Green Merchant, shooting fish in a barrel. At
this point was High Times compromised? Or?

In 1987 Hager went to Amsterdam to interview Nevil of the Seed Bank, while there he
meets the Skunk-man, who relates tales to him about harvest festivals in Santa Cruz
and suggests having a Cannabis Cup in Amsterdam as a yearly event. The Skunk-man
spins his web and Hager is taken in, from this point on everything stated by either
Skunk-man or his partner Robert C Clarke is taken as fact, Remember Rosenthal is
cultivation editor, and Clarke used to write under R. Connoisseur at High Times as
well. Hager being a newbie was enthralled by the lies coming from this trio. At this
point cannabis history starts to be rewritten by High Times.

In 1988 the first Cannabis Cup was held and lo and behold Cultivators Choice wins for
Skunk #1. Imagine what an intelligence bonanza the Cannabis Cup, where every grower
comes to judge the best strains and buy seeds. The database created a DEA agent’s wet
dream. Funny things started to happen around Amsterdam, seems as if a lot of

Cultivators Choice competition were being busted, and even Skunk-man’s own warehouse
grows are busted as well but he remained untouched, took his money to Luxemburg and
returned to go on, while everyone else went to jail.

In 1990, Nevil Shoenmakers who was also targeted by Green Merchant for his seed bank,
was not extradited by Holland but was arrested in Australia, where his lawyer in
court records noted that the police had dossier on Nevil as well as everyone who was
anyone on the Dutch scene, and that they were complied by Sam Selezny, now known as
David Watson AKA Skunk-man. This is public knowledge in Amsterdam, noted by Dutch
crime investigator Mario Lap. Lap investigated Selezny/ Watson as well as Ed
Rosenthal. Skunkman according to Hager in High Times article sold seeds to Nevil..

You have to wonder if the Cannabis Cup an idea the Skunk-man proposed
had been an operation of Green Merchant? How best for DEA to get information on
growers than to open a seed bank in Holland, create a cannabis cup, and even win the
1st cup awarded?

Every top grower in the world goes to Amsterdam for the Cannabis Cup, a bonanza of
information for DEA and law enforcement around the globe. One has to wonder when
Rosenthal and Hager realized that Skunk-man was DEA undercover? Without a doubt
Skunk-man had his claws in High Times, who printed his every word as if gospel.

Everyone busted but High Times, the smell of sulfur coming to my nose, certainly not
true skunk. Had a deal been struck between Government and High Times and so they
could remain in business? Since this time much of what has been written by High Times
is in fact fantasy made up by the Skunk-man to build up his mystique as well as his
cover. The Haze brothers a figment of Skunk-mans imagination, a play created for
stoners in order to hype their products. Frankly I shouldn’t blame the Dutch so much
for fraud as Skunk-man was the one who taught the Dutch the ropes and they fear him,
as we fear DEA here.

It’s beyond question that the Skunk-man has been a source of information to police
agencies around the globe.

1994 David Watson/ Selezny was issued a cannabis research license for Hortapharm R &
D along with his partner Robert C. Clarke aka R. Connisseur, above legitimate
Universities and PHD’s due to the strong endorsement of DEA, instead of extraditing
him back to Santa Cruz for that grow bust in 1985? To this day he is one of two
companies allowed to import cannabis products into US, and the only supplier licensed
by DEA to supply seeds of predictable quality for research. In a 1998 interview in UK
Journal, he stated that Hortapharm only wants to produce sterile females, to protect
the genetic copyright? He has sent botanist’s around the globe to contaminate and
collect inbred landrace strains, in order to confuse origin in order to claim
intellectual copyright. Now he claims to have the largest library of medicinal
cannabis seeds in the world. In other words he patented the munchie effect amongst
others. Wherever you go on the planet you will find skunk gene pool, this is a war
crime, to contaminate the original medical strains so as to be able to call them your
intellectual property is obscene. Just as the making of Mother Nature’s healing
plants illegal is a war crime, so is the research Hortapharm is doing. Instead of
extraditing Watson back to Santa Cruz for his 1985 grow bust, he was praised and

supported by DEA.

In 1997 the inventor, Reinhard Delp introduced the Ice Water Method at the 97
Cannabis cup and it was off to the races, the most copied and ripped off formula in
Cannabis history, and who designed and created the fraud? Skunk-man with Clarke, Mel
Frank and High Times. He did this in order to confuse the origin of the patent.
During the 97 Cup Reinhard had offers promising the world for an exclusive license
for the method patent pending by “an English Pharmaceutical outfit”, he did a
comparison test for them with a bigger machine, where he trashed a Pollinator as to
quality and quality, but finally refused the “exclusive” and insisted on real
“publishing”, for immediate use for everybody.
At the end of the 97 Cup Hortapharm set up a meeting with Reinhard where Clarke
demanded “we can’t publish that” and asked why, responded “the people can not handle
it, it is too strong.” Unaware of the “powers” of Hortapharm, the inventor told
Clarke that he was full of it and they had a “fall out”. Reinhard never wanted to
play monopoly with characters like Hortapharm, Bayer or Monsanto.
The meeting happened at Bill Barth’s place, a much liked, very outspoken fellow,
equally unimpressed by Clarke at the meeting. The inventor was later told that Bill
passed away in his sleep.

Crazed by their money and the power they had due to their DEA connection,
High Times and most European Cannabis publications in their pocket, Hortapharm’s
Watson and Clarke set out to erase the introduction of the Xtractor 420 and the Ice-
Water-Method on the 97 Cannabis Cup from Cannabis history. One year later Mila, who
just broke a license contract with Reinhard was now the proud owner of the Hemp
Hotel, received a government grant to develop her invention and Clarke was marketing
Mila and her new invention: the Ice-O-lator. But Mila was stupid enough to sell her
“new creation” with the instructions she received with the XTR 420 .
Another glitch in the scam: some journalistic conscience managed to record the event
from 1997, simply explaining the new Method in High Times May 98 issue.

In his book Clarke spins the Ice-Water-Method back to the old unsuccessful “Sadu Sam
Secret” Recipe, which Ed Rosenthal did not mention anymore in a 96 High-Times article
about Hash, even though he was selling the recipe on a 900 fax years earlier.
Clarke streamlined the recipe for his book, cold water became “chilled”, Mila was
introduced as the Lady Of Hash and the 1997 XTR 420 was otherwise blacked out of the
Media. “No limit”- Skunkman approaches the inventor in e-mails, boasting about 10 000
square meter grows, claimed to have designed Mila’s and the Canadian “Bubble man’s” ,
Mark Richardson’s inventions and threatens legal action, “prior artwork” and “what
have you”.

In May 2009 Reinhard’s financial lifelines grobots.com and icecold.org got busted by
the DEA, the company and home vandalized, company inventory destroyed, all private
and company money taken. (treatingyourself.com, issue 19 “Update”)
He does not stop to sue them for patent infringement.
Also taken was the Cannabis Collective’s seedbank, ten pounds high quality Cannabis
seeds from landrace strains -sounds familiar?

Skunkman stole the method like the strains he had stolen, created GW Pharmaceuticals
on the promise of the Ice-Water-Method and hoped to control all cannabis based
medicines. In fact Sativex was created from Thai genetics, I wonder how the Thai
government feels about that since cannabis has 8400year history as medicine in
Thailand?

Watson due to his control of information has been able to pull scam after scam as an
endorsement from High Times is all you used to need in this business. He knows that
young stoners and medical patients have no cannabis knowledge and that he can sell
anything he wants, the frauds have had a tremendous effect on the quality of medicine
produced. At the same time he has been a mentor to the Dutch who now play from the
same deck of control of information.

I know by now you have reached the WTF moment in this article, how much more stinky
is this going to get?

Let’s face it no corporation has more at stake that cannabis continues to be illegal,
so that only they can produce cannabis based medicine than GW Pharmaceuticals, now
part of Bayer. GW not only bought strains from Hortapharm but also funds botanical
research. They paid to collect medicinal strains around the globe while contaminating
them with skunk strain to confuse origin. By doing this they legally could shut down
all medical grows for infringing on intellectual property of GW and Hortapharm. Does
the GW stand for Guy & Watson? When asked now, that GW made it, they inform that
Watson and Clarke are no longer with them.

WTF, talk about quantum leap, from being wanted for a grow bust in Santa Cruz, to
being the CEO of Hortapharm, with 5 DEA licenses and partners with GW and Bayer.
Dude, not only did the the DEA seedbank win the 1st cannabis cup, but last year Danny
Don’t Know, the new cultivation expert at High Times, named the DEA seed-bank
Cultivators Choice as the all time greatest seed-bank. Then went on to state that
Skunk-man was the founder of Sacred seeds, when that collective can be traced back to
before prohibition. There is no foundation of truth from Danny Don’t
Know nor from High Times when it comes to Skunk-man, they were duped, hoodwinked,
bamboozled, led down a trail of tears.

From setting up grow shops to operating seed banks in Holland is no quantum leap in
information gathering during Operation Green Harvest. Or that some of their assets
from that time, continue to provide information to this day.
Worse thing of all is that for the past 22 years or more everything written on
cannabis is written in support of frauds these people created. So they have you
spending more for growing less. That the quality of cannabis and cannabis seed has
gone down from what ol skool medical imports were originally is without doubt. The
best cannabis was grown during the golden age of Cannabis 1840-1940, when it was
legally farmed for medicinal use, Sacred Seeds sought to preserve those strains.

September 2010, Danny Don’t Know states that High Times has no connection to Skunk-
man. Wow has he changed his tune, but is it the truth?

No, Robert C Clarke, partner of David Watson - Skunk-man in Hortapharm and GW
Pharmaceuticals, continues to promote fraud.
In a special issue of High Times that basically introduces new products to consumers.
Clarke brought the bubble bag fraud full circle again, calling it a new innovative
technique, basically using the same information they used when they introduced these
frauds in 1998-2000. They have a new generation of young stoners and medical patients
with no cannabis knowledge to cheat.

There are 3 photographs that show the fraud for what it is:



1. You see resins glands at bottom of glass, valuable oils and terpenes
floating on top, and on top of that water floating, clear separation seen. You lose
immediately 30-40% using either 25 or 33 micron catch bag. From this point you should
have gone to coffee filter 5 micron, but you don’t make money selling paper coffee
filters. Everything about bags works against and retards the Ice Water technique, the
US patent was granted in 2000, but for Europe and Canada only in 2006 (!). Every time
you add a bag on top of the 2 bag system you can add a dilution, in a 9 bag system
you have diluted formula a dozen times. What they neglected to tell you is that
Mother Nature does all the work for you. The ice method made sieving and all forms of
processing cannabis obsolete.
2. In Clarke’s article he states nylon sieving bags as new innovative technique.
Well thank Soumi La Valle for leaving us his great work on Hashish. Circa 1979 there's
pictures of a Lebanese cannabis worker holding her 70- micron sieve. This is the final
sieve used in making the finest Lebanese hashish, they started with metal window
screen to remove seeds and stems and that material they processed threw 3 sizes of
nylon sieves the 1st being 150 micron –120 micron-70 micro being the last sieve used
to make 00 hashish the finest. . They attached this Lebanese technique to the Ice
Method and called it new innovative technique, when reality the Ice method made
sieving obsolete. They told you to grind up your material, why? As in the ice water
environment leaves become flexible, fiber matter stays intact, and resin glands fall
off with simple agitation. What they don’t tell you is that the method releases the
oils in trichomes, and that the bags have no way of collecting them, flavor, taste,
aroma lost. Clarke calls it a new innovative technique, when sieving of Hashish goes
back to Alexander the Great in the Bekaa Valley of Lebanon, and is one of the oldest
techniques used by Chinese farmers in Asia going back 1000’s of years, before nylon
they used silk, metal sieves were introduced in the 19th century and are still in use
in Afghanistan to this day. What’s funny is that all the grow gurus never show you
the Lebanese technique, as that would expose the fraud.
3. There is a photo of the back of a Lebanese hash factory and mounds are
leftover cannabis from the hash making process. I can reprocess that left over
material, and give you more and better hashish than you made to begin with, because
everything under 70 micron was left behind. I can do the same with any material run
threw any bag system, flavor, aroma, taste I will recapture using correct technique.


All these years the same people have profited enormously due to the illegality of
cannabis.. The very people who claim to be Free Da Weed are actually working to keep
it illegal so only they can profit. The learning curves and misinformation these
people have put out never ceases to amaze me.

Mark Heinrich who recently did a 2hour interview with Nevil, who is now living in
Perth. This interview will appear in TY. Stated that not only had Skunkman written a
dossier on him for DEA, but was recently offered a deal from his bail jumping charge
from 1990, stemming from Operation Green Merchant. Auzzies would drop charges if
Nevil would allow Skunkman access to his genetics, so that he could get their DNA and
track crops around the globe. He refused.
The Cannabis Cup has the stink of Skunkman and operation Green Merchant, who knows
how many folks have been arrested and sent to prison due to intelligence gathered at
the High Times Cannabis Cup in Amsterdam.

Steven Hager said:
Truth is, Sam had no idea I’d be inventing the Cannabis Cup later that year, as I
didn’t even get the idea until I was on the plane home. Did Sam’s stories of the
Santa Cruz harvest festivals of the 1970s influence me? Of course. But Sam never
presented himself as a major player in those harvest festivals, or even the boss of
Sacred Seeds, or the breeder of Skunk #1, which was his primary strain. The story I
got was Skunk #1 popped up unexpectedly and everybody loved it, and it won some early
harvest festivals. Which is pretty much the story you get about most of the really
famous strains.
When I returned to Holland for the first Cannabis Cup months later, Sam was there to
greet me. He wasn’t sure he wanted Cultivator’s Choice, the name of his new Seed
Company, to enter the first Cannabis Cup, which so far consisted of Nevil’s Seed Bank
and Ben Dronkers’ Sensi Seeds. As I recall the Sensi Seed strains were all freshly
harvested and we couldn’t smoke them without running the samples through a microwave.
It would take another year for many to catch on to the importance of curing, and keep
in mind some people in the industry weren’t even stoners. Nevil didn’t care whether
he won, or whether Skunk #1 won, because he had both Skunk #1 and Northern Lights.
The final decision was not Dave Watson’s, but something entirely decided by grow guru
Bram Frank and I because we liked the taste. The only other judge was the
photographer Jiffy Schnack, who preferred Northern Lights. Nevil at the time was into
dry sift made from Haze, which he kept to himself, while Sam and Robert were smoking
full-melt Skunk #1, and were giddy about the way it turned to liquid when they hit it
with a flame. This was all new to me.
A few years later, Arjan of the Greenhouse showed me a report by Mario Lap indicating
Sam was really Dave Watson, who’d been busted in Santa Cruz one month before arriving
in Amsterdam. And he’d supposedly arrived in Amsterdam with hundreds of thousands of
seeds for sale one month after his bust. After selling the seeds to Nevil, who was
making a fortune at the time in cash sales, Watson got the only license to study
medicinal cannabis in Holland. It sure looked like Watson was secretly working with
the DEA, and those operations might include tracking the ID’s of all the strains of
the world and documenting the growers and dealers distributing them.
I don’t know if this database was real, or, if so, if it is still being pursued, but
Mario claimed Watson had written a profile on the situation in Australia that named
many growers and dealers.

I would not be surprised if Watson is a spook, and I can guarantee the world of
illegal drugs is filled with spooks in all possible nooks and crannies. He went on to
co-found Hortapham, which made the deal with GW Pharma, which made the bigger, better
deal with Bayer, the powerhouse in European medicine. Surely you realize big money is
an Octopus that pulls strings everywhere it goes?

Treating Yourself - Meet Dr. Frankenbeanstein
Konsupsa's picture
Mon, 06/29/2009 - 08:24 — Konsupsa

Are your expensive Dutch female seeds hard to clone, or when you try to breed them,
all you get are hermaphrodites?
Thank Dr Frankenbeanstein, aka the Skunkman, real name David Watson.

A bit of history:
At a 1997 Vancouver Hemp conference, Watson spoke of his research. His main focus
was to stop growers from cloning nor being able to create any seeds, from strains
being bred in Amsterdam. The funding for this research came partially from the Dutch
Government, the rest from DEA. Watson had been busted for growing in Santa Cruz
California 3-20-85 and resurfaced in Amsterdam to start his seed company Cultivator’s
Choice. DEA supported the Skunkman’s application for a license to grow for research
in Holland, even though they should have been extraditing him back to Cali for his
1985 in Santa Cruz grow bust! DEA endorsement was so strong that he was the first to
be granted a permit in Holland when several universities and domestic research groups
with PHD’s and legitimate reasons for research were denied! The Dutch government even
supplied three greenhouses for Dr. Frankenbeanstein to do his heinous experiments,
while normal Dutch growers lost all their equipment and had to serve murder-like
sentences at that time! Dutch seed companies have become the Monsanto of the cannabis
seed industry, and hope to make us all seed junkies at $20 a seed.!

The license gave Hortapharm/Skunkman/DEA control over what researchers are allowed
access to pedigreed seeds of predictable quality! The object is to patent up every
possible combination of cannabinoids and terpenes with efficacy for every possible
disease they can treat, and every possible genetic sequence! Once ready to make the
move, they will shut down every medical cannabis grower for patent fraud, and those
they can’t will be run out when they produce a more effective product for
significantly less than $250 an ounce the growers are getting! The Skunkman’s company
Hortapharm, is the only private organization approved by the Drug Enforcement Agency
to supply genetics to researchers to this day!

Gibberillen is a natural growth stimulant, that also changes the sex in plants, male
to female, female to male. First discovered in the 1930's by researchers looking for
hormones to stop elongation of the stem during early growth stages of rice and
prevent crop failures due to to drought or excessive rain, during early growth
stages. After many years of research, in the 1950's, gibberillens were found that had
the optimum of success in treating this problem. This is also when researchers
discovered that gibberillens had beneficial effects on many food crops, increasing
their yields ten fold! Professor Carlson of Midwestern University created sonic bloom
in the late 70's, using gibberillens and fertilizers, that when applied to crops ,
then bombarded with sonic waves at a specific frequency, produced yields in most
crops that were increased 4-10 fold!
The discovery of the effects of gibberillens were first noted by Sues who discovered
the product in the early 80's, and tried it as sold by Carlson for increasing his
gardens yield by using their product and playing (Music) to his plants. It worked! It
not only increased his yields but produced a few seeds in his stable of pure females
plants! The ingredient was gibberillens! After using the product several times, he
has seeds in every crop there after. Confused as to why, his research discovered the
main active ingredient was gibberillen. After using this for several years, he
noticed that depending on when you sprayed gibberillens that there would be a few
seeds or a large amount of seeds! Size was pretty much increased every time. From
these experiments he discovered that pure stable female plants could be sprayed at
the (right) times, and produce a few a few male stamens that would create, exact
duplicates of the mother and would be feminized seeds, sprouting out as females every
seed!

At that 1997 Vancouver Hemp conference Master Grower Seus met Watson and explained
his discovery and findings on gibberillens. That information went back with Dr
Frankenbeanstein, and when he got back to Amsterdam he called it his own invention
and from there came the feminized seed phenomenon.. Watson sold his new discovery to
all takers. One Dutch seed bank even claim that it is their own invention, I guess
cause the bought the formula from Skunkman? Over application of gibberillens cause
smaller and less vigorous seed! The habit of not letting them fully finish, the seeds
are grey, in distinct and hard to sprout.

Recently Dr Frankenbeanstein testified at another conference in Canada against the
use of industrial hemp in Canada! GW Pharm/Hortapharm are scared of the hemp
industry, why? You see, low industrial hemp produces GW’s miracle drug, CBD as a by
product! There is primariy one gene that tells a plant to be either a primary CBD
producer or a primary THC producer! The Bd gene produces the enzyme that converts
cannabigerol into CBD, and the gene Bt gene produces enzyme that converts cannabigerl
into THC. If a plant inherits a Bt gene from each parent it will only produce low
cannabigerol of CBD, and visa versa if it gets a Bd gene from each parent. If it
receives a Bd from one parent, and Bt from another, it will be roughly 50/50
chemotype, but this is not true breeding. Most herb in the med clubs is homozygous
for BT, meaning that it does not produce appreciable amounts of CBD. Since CBD
actually blocks the psychoactive effects of THC, it was selected against by American
breeders, even though it is extremely effective in boosting the medical efficacy of
cannabis, especially with regards to degenerative nervous condition, without any
psychoactivity! CBD by itself has also been shown to be very effective in treating
anxiety disorders with effectiveness of valium and other benzo drugs, without the
extreme addictiveness and potential for overdose! Valium and benzos are the most
dangerous drugs to detox from! Their withdrawal many times worse than crack or
heroin!

The only time cannabis users ever really had assess to a higher level of CBD was
with hashish farmed with populations with varying ratios of Bd and Bt genes! So as it
stands now, CBD is not available to any real extent to medical cannabis users! If
industrial hemp farmers were to catch on, that they’re producing a very needed
medicine, it will harm GW Pharm/Hortapharm!

In the UK all you hear is the dangers of the new Skunk-weed, that it leads to
psychosis, that it drives people insane. Just a few years back it looked like
cannabis laws in the UK were loosening. Cannabis was re-classified back down to level
2, it was the lowest priority for the police. Then all of a sudden this new Skunk
strain is introduced causing mass hysteria and reefer madness, to the extent that
cannabis is reclassified back up to level1! What happened?

One thing we know, the last thing that GWPharm/Hortapharm want is the medical
cannabis scene catching hold as it has in California, and many other states in the
US, in the UK! Hortapharm with the support of DEA and GW Pharm have introduce a
geneticly engineered super strain of Skunkweed, that makes people paranoid,
psychotic, and makes you completely stupid. If your not an experienced smoker you may
not handle it well. First time smoker’s can be scared straight, never to use cannabis
again! Remember chief lobbyist/ spokeperson for GW Pharm is an X DEA head!
Cannabis has only been illegal 72 years, it had all ways been legal. 100 years ago
you could buy Cannabis Sativa Americana and Cannabis Indica extract from Parke Davis
Pharmaceuticals at your local drug store! In fact in the early 20th century Parke
Davis seed collectors introduced Indian sub-continent seed into Southern Appalachia
to create Cannabis Americana of equal or greater potency to the Indian sub-continent
product they were having difficulty importing due to disruption of shipping from
world war one! Parke Davis collected seeds from India, Turkestan, and Nepal, and sent
them back to be grown in the Blue Ridge mountains and Mexico! Parke Davis Scientist
conducted blind trials on themselves and found the American product both more
pleasant and more potent! Those heritage medical strains were selected from 100's of
years of selective breeding legally! Nothing today comes close to the heirloom
medical strains from that period. Anyone who states that the cannabis of today is
stronger than yesteryear is dreaming. The pot they smoked in the tea pads of Harlem
in the 1920's-30's was much better than any concocted strains today! Dr.
Frankenbeanstein with the help of Rob Clarke, Mel Frank, Ed Rosenthal, Milla
engineered the largest misinformation ripoff campaign in Cannabis history, that only
diluted the original Ice Water technique by attaching the ancient dry seiving method,
to confuse the origin of the now patented Ice Water Method. Attaching this seiving
technique to the Ice Water method, enabled them to sell Nylon at wedding dress
prices, but makes no sense! Due to their scam most of the bag product is no progress
since it contains more fiber than old style quality dry seived Hash and lost taste
and aroma!

In the Soumi LaValle book on hashish, you see first hand the seiving technique used
by a Lebanese family in Baalbek , the different screening process is shown in it’s
entirety, from that book came the idea for bags. In a dry seive you don’t release
oils, so the naturals terepenes are in the hash, which is sticky. The bag technique
releases the oils but only collects broken pieces of resin akin to kief not hash! The
Lebanese women doing the seiving, could out perform 1000 people using bags. It wasn’t
a revolutionary technique in hash making it was backward steps!

Yet clever Dutch and Canadian marketing sent out a huge learning curve, and people
have been ruining there medicine ever since! This ripoff of a patent method will soon
be settled in a Canadian court. I hate to burst your bubble but Milla and Bubbleman
had nothing to do with inventing the Ice Water technique! A patent which made all
traditional forms of processing cannabis obsolete. Dr Frankenbeans sold a patented
method that did not belong to him, and laid the foundation for GW Pharmaceuticals, we
all know that the first step of making Sativex is Ice Water Extraction! The damage
that has been done to Cannabis is immeasurable! He even sold Mexican and Central
American genetics, as well as Afghan genetics to GW, as his own!! A call to GW and we
were told that David Watson and Robert C. Clarke no longer work there. Robert

Clarke’s book on hashish, as well as Rosenthal, Cervantes, Mel Frank, all wrote in
support of the fraud. You see those idiots go by one rule, all stoner’s are stupid,
they feed on young stoner’s and medical patients with no cannabis knowledge. Since
Dutch seed companies control the media and information, they feel that cannabis
consumers will buy whatever they tell them to buy!

When old school ran the cannabis scene, you paid $30-50 an ounce for super Columbian
gold and red, $60-75 an ounce for high altitude seedless Mexican sativa, $100 an
ounce for the best Thai, $150 for Hawaiian so strong you thought you were on acid.!
Now you pay $35 for one seed of Jack Herer, which is Mexican genetics. Ed Rosenthal
sold our pot culture to the Dutch Monopoly, and now the Dutch seed companies are
selling it back to us at $20 a seed!

By 2009, several old school pioneers whose books debunked all the myth and out right
lying surrounding David Watson/Dr Frankenbeanstein. Dutch cannabis industry should
thank Ronald Reagan by naming a sewer canal after him! Reagan shut us down,
imprisoned for years, stripped of their wealth and left with nothing to defend
themselves. In fact The Black Tuna gang leaders still in prison nearly 30 years,
Brian Daniels the Thai Stick King recently released after 27 years. Howard Marks who
no doubt sold a lot of cannabis, was a spoke in the Daniels wheel! They used the US
Air force, Navy, and the Coast Guard to shut down the entire Caribbean, Gulf of
Mexico, the Eastern and Western seaboard, to finally shut us down, but before we were
shut down we had a baby, and that baby was called Home Grown American, from the seeds
we brought back from Asia!

Watson’s claim that he was the breeder of California Orange debunked by Jerry
Beisler’s book, The Bandit of Kabul. In the book Jerry shows his creation California
Orange, and some of the earliest photos of outdoor grows known circa 1973-74, Jerry
ran one of the earliest documented seed banks in California!
Without Ronald Reagan the Dutch cannabis industry would have never happened, the pot
scene is an American phenomenon that spread around the globe!
It is just a matter of time before one of the medical states legalizes and taxes and
regulates cannabis. In fact there is a bill being presented in California that would
do just that! It would tax cannabis $50 an ounce! The Billions in revenue that would
generate would cause other medical states to follow, remember folks we are in a
depression! California legalization is the Dutch Cannabis industry’s worst nightmare.
Once the coffee shops open in San Francisco, that will be the death of the Dutch
ripoff scene. American seed banks will be able to operate openly on the world stage!
Organic land race American seed unpolluted by Dutch genetics will take over the
market world wide!

The original strains are still available and wild cannabis still flourishes.
American growers are going back to the original heirloom medical strains and creating
there own hybrids. Most of the original American strains have been bred and re-bred,
engineered and re-engineered by the Dutch seed companies, that at this point are
useless to the breeder.

Monsanto terminator technology is being applied to our beloved Cannabis by Dr.
Frankenbeanstein at Hortapharm in Holland. Let me explain exactly what this means and
use cotton as example!

In the cotton example, the goal is to develop a variety of cotton that will grow
normal until the crop is almost mature. Then, and only then, a toxin will be produced
in the (seed) embryos, specifically killing the entire next generation of seeds. The
system has three components: 1. A gene for a toxin that will kill the seed late in
development, but that will not kill any other part of the plant. 2. A method for
allowing a plant breeder to grow several generations of cotton plants, already
genetically-engineered to contain the seed-specific toxin gene, without any seeds
dying. This is required to produce enough seeds to sell for farmers’ to plant. 3. A
method for activating the engineered seed- specific toxin gene after the farmer
plants the seeds, so that the farmer’s second generation will be killed.. These three
tasks are accomplished by engineering a series of genes, which are all transferred
permanently to the plant, so that they are passed on via the normal reproduction of
the plant.

Dr Frankenbeanstein threatened Skunk magazine to have all Dutch advertizing
cancelled, which amount to 60% of their revenue, after printing part one of this
article! This is the complete article. Skunk, High Times, Cannabis Culture, Weed-
World in reality are trade pamphlets, that support the continuing rip off of our
cannabis community by Hortapharm/GW Pharm/DEA, and the Dutch Cannabis Industry.
The one beacon of truth telling is Treating yourself magazine in our community. My
only claim to fame being that I have always been a general in Lord Shiva’s Ganja
Army. Bom Shiva Bom Shankar Joe Pietri

King of Nepal


^Joe is also a strain stealing snitch who admits in his book to helping the DEA but the fact remains, there is an abundance of evidence that Sam is a DEA snitch and is actively working to both control, and ruin the cannabis gene pool with terminator technology.
 

PlantManBee

Well-known member
lol. being a rat doesn't negate him knowing a shipload. I never said I consorted with him. Saying he knows a bunch about plants and saying he is a not a rat are two different issues. That's not my opinion, that fact. There is a whole fuckload of territory between those two statements.

How do you know some other rat didn't save its skin with portions of those tales? Because I sure as hell don't. There are way too many ifs and too much disinformation.

I've never done business with the man, and in fact, he has got pissed off at me in a thread because I remain neutral. I'm not siding with anyone here... I think maybe rats all around, but don't KNOW.
 

59lespaul

Active member
He ratted out Sacred Seeds, and later on went and got the genes out of the garbage, that the cops left behind, and went to Europe.

And theres plenty of people that know as much, or more than he does, and isn't a rat, or a thief.
 
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PlantManBee

Well-known member
He ratted out Sacred Seeds, and later on went and got the genes out of the garbage, that the cops left behind, and went to Europe.

And theres plenty of people that know as much, or more than he does, and isn't a rat, or a thief.
None of which negates his knowledge. Two separate subjects.

It is handy that you posted the fake seed catalogue as it illustrates the point, not everything is as it is presented. Again, I don't know all of what happened. And honestly am not invested in it enough to try to discern the truth. There are way more productive ways to spend my days.

Peace
 
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Big Sur

Well-known member
Gott'a love the Mendo/Alaska/Romulan Joe slams here, and the Dave Watson/Jingles/selgnij/Hemp Guy/San the Skunkman/Sam Selezney/Dr Fankenbeanstein/whatever his real name is slams. Some things to note: I never saw any BOEL anything when I lived in NorCal and SoCal, or when I hung out on Telegraph Ave in Berzerkley. They did bring in a TON of weed into the US though, so they were seed importers and sellers, albeit just about every lid had seeds in them in those days. We were also growing sinsemilia in Central California from abut 1976 on. A LOT of sinsemilia. That shifted more north to Mendo and Humboldt in the 1980s. To reiterate, I never heard of Sacred Seeds living in the Monterey Bay area from '66 to '86. And I never heard of Haze anything there, brothers or weed, other than purple haze LSD and the song that Hendrix wrote. There was also some purple weed being sold as purple haze in Gilroy that I have seeds of. However, the more I dig and ask around and look into the Sacred Seeds thing, the more it seems to have been an entirely made up myth by Watson, and perpetuated by Mario Lap, Robert Clarke, Ed Rozen. and Mel Frank. All the stories stem from one or all of them. I was in and around Corrolitos a lot from 1973 to 1985 or so. There was not much there, mainly apple orchards and cider presses, strawberry and cane berry fields, and greenhouses for orchids (the main reason I was there) and other high value ornamental plants. I had a lot of friends all over in and around those hills and I partied all over in those days there.

I tripped over Sam the Skunkman on the IcyRag forum a while back, and what he posted and told me never added up. His experiences in Santa Cruz and Big Sur were the polar opposite of mine. He told me that paraquat weed smelled funky and tasted terrible. My paraquat weed (I had it tested at a lab myself) smelled of nothing. Zero, zip, nada. Bright gold color, no smell or taste. It was all bleached out by the Paraquat. He claims that Haze was all he smoked, because it was better than EVERYTHING ELSE and they started breeding it back as far as 1969. Sorry... I never saw of heard of any local breed, with the one exception of Big Sur Holy. Watson boasted to me that he smoked Big Sur Holy with the hippie growers in Big Sur in '69 as well, and he said it was bunk compared to his ~better than anything else~ "Haze." He also claimed that Haze sold for $250 an oz as far back as 1969. I saw NOTHING sell for more than $20 a lid in the NorCal area up to about 1972, including Panama Red, Oaxacan, Cambodian Red, Acapulco Gold, etc. etc. After 1972 or so to about 1980 it was upward of $40 an oz. Hashish sold for more, as did Thai sticks, but not weed, either bricked or loose. Now we were spoiled rotten with a LOT of weed available locally through multiple import hubs like Ft Ord, Big Sur, LA and SF. But no matter what we had access to though, it ~always~ ran out. Watson claims he had his choice of the best selection of "Haze" from the "Haze Bros" year in and year out. But if it were being sold at an inflated $250 an oz, 12 times the going rate for the best imported weed? Why would they would sit on any of that shit for long? Sorry... it does not add up. Weed moved fast in those days, especially good weed. People talked about good weed. I had people that I never met banging on my door MONTHS after I sold out of my best Colombian gold, Wacky, Kerala Ganja and Guerrero weed, or Red Leb hash, wanting to buy it, at any price. "A friend of a friend said you had some ~whatever~" Sorry! Long gone! If I could get more I would! Good weed always sold itself. Anyway I started looking into this Sam Skunk dude, and found his real name was Watson, and all the Sacred Seed BS, and Jingles, Jangles, and Jungles, then the Mario Lap stuff, and what happened in Amsterdam, and big corporation cannabinoids in the UK and Holland. I posted stuff about him on IcyRag, and the mods removed my posts and warned me about him. They said they all knew about this past, but the owner was backing him and he was a low level moderation there. Subsequently I was banned from IcyRag for posting about some of these people there.

Where it all ends? I do not know. I did a background check recently on the name David Watson and he may be the one that lives around Half Moon Bay now with his wife. I also checked the warrants and police records in Santa Cruz and either 1) Sacred Seeds never existed as a company and Dave Watson was never busted there, or 2) he was busted as claimed and he flipped and "fled", went to Holland and after the Holland busts and publicity, the whole arrest and records in Santa Cruz were covered up by the DEA and his record was expunged. I have searched the Monterey Harald, Santa Cruz Sentinel and the Salinas Californian in mid 1985, and there is nothing there about Sacred Seeds in any of them, or about a bust of Sacred Seeds or a bust of David Watson in '85. The timeline is that he was arrested in 1985, and subsequent to his release that same day (hard to believe that they would just release him on trafficking charges the same day), he grabbed the seeds from an "unguarded dumpster" where all the evidence was tossed into, and took off to Holland within a month. According to Big Ed in Holland, he was the one that sent Dave Watson and one other (presumably Robert Clarke) tickets to come to Amsterdam. Big Ed also wrote later that he was appalled/shocked/amazed/taken aback with Watson and Clark's BIG ideas to scale up fast to a massive growing size operation in Amsterdam, as that attracted a lot of attention from authorities, and they were all busted except Watson, who skated. I think Ed was blown away by the scope of the American ideas, and feared that what happened would happen, long before it actually happened.

Past that? I do not know what happened in Holland or much about the seed companies. I have always grown landrace strains from bag weed seeds that I started freezing in 1977. My thing is and always was to grow the better landrace strains as they are, and breed them to preserve their unique genetics. Original IBL? It was the way that Big Sur Holy Weed was grown from landrace Zacatecas Purple. It was not crossed with Afghani to make SAGE until later on. Some claim that SAGE is a Haze Afghani cross, but that ain't so. Unless original Haze was made from BSHW? Now that would be a laugh. Real BSHW is a tall late blooming very purple sativa. I still have seeds of the original BSHW strain that I got myself from friends in Big Sur. Tiny dark purple seeds. We just called it purple. BSHW was made famous by Jerry Kamstra in his book, Weed published in 1973. BSHW was more of a joke name in Big Sur, but it was the first named local weed that I ever heard of. Meanwhile, in the early 1970s the real money there was in importing weed by the ton from Mexico into Polo Colorado and other enclaves in "Big Sur", and then up into the Monterey and SF Bay areas. Local weed growing in Big Sur was small time until the late 1970s, after Paraquat killed the big Mexican grows and imports. That left a local weed vacuum that was filled by local grown, and an increase in Colombian weed imports. IMO, paraquat was the real trigger for local growing in California, and what I believe fostered the breeding scene there. As a result we got Haze, Skunk, Mendo Purps, and later strains like Blue Dream, GDP and tightly held strains like Dog Bud (parent of ChemDog & OG Kush). There were also other breeders in the PNW and LA area, and they cranked out Northern Lights, Blueberry, Cali-O and others.
 
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Broseidon

Member
I agree with everything you say LesPaul.

But I agree even more with Plantman...

I never doubted that Sam was a rat (I always called it DEA co-operator but sure, rat is fine as well).

Even before you dumped the huge pile of evidence or at least clear-cut indications from around the web, it just makes by far and large the most sense.

I remember first reading up on that subject and what quickly convinced me of Sam being a rat was a very simple thing:
Back in those days where the scene revolved around Amsterdam etc. etc., everyone got busted eventually. There was no big player that never rubbed shoulders with the law. Not even because they were all dumb and made mistakes. The legal environment was just extremely volatile. What was fine by the law one day, resulted in SWAT kicking in your door the other. See Shanti's experience in Switzerland back then.
There weren't as many that did time but there were many that lost their businesses, assets, genetics, etc. etc.

The only one and I mean the ONLY one who never faced any consequences from the law was Sam...
How?

If you follow the accounts from back then it is fairly obvious that he at some point returned to the states, got pinched, flipped and installed as a DEA informant and the rest is history. There is no doubt in my mind about that, like I said, even before your complete post.


But again:
What Plantman and I are "arguing" is ONLY and ONLY one thing: This all doesn't detract from his knowledge. I would go as far as saying that he may have surpassed people like Shanti and Nevil.
Not from talent or anything but just from the fact that he was allowed to practice his "craft" for decades without having to hide from the law. Because the law let him do his thing in exchange for him being a rat.


So again:
The man is a pest to be sure and he likely won't be missed by many once he is gone. He should never get a statue or into the hall of fame or whatever.
But this all doesn't change the fact that he influenced and shaped the scene and continues to do so to this day.

Not in a positive manner mind you. His work with big AG/pharma to create patented GMO cannabis, trying to create yet another monopoly and push small competitors and homegrowers not only out of the market but into bankruptcy/prison, is more than enough to see that he hasn't and never will change his ways. He only cares about himself and has neither a spine, nor honor, nor a moral compass.

But he does know a hell of a lot about cannabis and has decades of experience that nobody on the planet was able to have.... because there is no other rat, quite like Sam.
 
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59lespaul

Active member
But just because Satan may have knowledge, doenst meant I'm going to ask him.

And really, whats to know about growing weed, other than the basics. To many try and make rocket science out of it, when the best weed os grown with just using the basics. There are no secrets.

Give them food, water, plenty of soil, and light. Done.

And who can believe what a rat says?? He could be misleading you, for his own end.

But I don't ask Satan for knowledge, even if he knows what I may want to know. I would die first.

YMMV. Mine NEVER WILL. EVER. RATS put me in prison from 97-2009. I have 0 for any of them, and I made life living hell for both RATS, and Child Molesters in prison.

Also consider my cellie, was the main Lewis Farrakhan guy at the prison, and I'm white.

We really got along quite well, especially when I let him know the guy next door was in for a Racial Hate Crime, and also RATTING. Burning a cross in their yard, and setting the house on fire of a biracial couple, and then ratted on his helpers.
 
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Broseidon

Member
I understand Bro...
And I feel the same as you mostly.

I am not even saying anyone should ask him for any guidance or whatever. Just stating that I am convinced, scratch that, know that he has experience and knowledge that most do not.

And it might not be rocket science but there is a reason why he was recruited to work with big ag/pharma on GMO canna. One reason was surely that he was one of the few willing to sell out to these entities but also one of the few who had the necessary skills/knowledge/experience.

Even though it isn't rocket science, I am sure there weren't that many people "in the scene" that really knew about and had experience with all the inns and outs of feminizing until not too long ago.

Where I really knew he had knowledge/experience that most don't was when it came to reversing males. He did that decades ago already and not many have had experience with it since. If for no other reason than that the necessary compound to do this is not readily available for just anyone to buy. You need certain licenses for that. Well maybe not everywhere...
But even if others had the theoretical knowledge of how to reverse males, few have actually done it and over longer periods with many different cultivars to come to a scientifically based conclusion. Sa.. I mean the devil, did.

Either way, I feel this is going in circles a bit.

I think the point we were trying to make is:
It is important to know that the devil could actually make a deal with you, even though he is the devil. He does have the skills/knowledge/experience, no matter how he came by it.

And your point (correct me if I'm wrong) is:
Doesn't matter what the devil does or doesn't know, he is still the devil so a deal is out of the question anyway and not necessary because the devil doesn't know anything of worth anyway.


And that's where I (and I believe Plantman) disagree.
Let's say we agree he is the devil (which isn't far off what I would actually agree to), we (I guess I should really say I...) think he does have knowledge/experience that could be worth making a deal with him for some and while he is the devil, that doesn't change what he knows.

Besides:
I think calling him the devil is a bit far. He is at most an Imp or something. The real Lucifer/Devil types sit in Monsanto/Bayer etc.
 

59lespaul

Active member
Outing a rat, is ratting??

He told on all his co defendants too. 4 other people.

I got the same tolerance for racism, as I do rats. Id bust up skinheads for breakfast. Im married to a Filipina, and have 0 tolerance for racists.

You cant let people exist freely that want to burn people houses down, and kill the occupants. Especially when there was also 3 little kids in the house.

I got a hold of his Prison #, had my people on the outside run his #, as most every new person will either show their papers to the other inmates, or they will be outcast, and nobody will mess with them, and they will be suspect. You can learn almost everything from a prison#. Also when people have, or don't have certain things on their papers ect, its easy to figure out they ratted, or are in for Child Molestation.

He also wouldn't show his papers.

I was happy to show mine.

I also told the FBI, and the Federal Prosecutor FUCK YOU, to their faces. They were going to give me what they wanted anyway, as I had a Mandatory Minimum of 10-Life.
 
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alecky

Member
Yes ratting on a rat is ratting. A rat is a rat is a rat is a rat.

With you it seems to depend on the crime committed whether it warrants you rat on them or not.

If i was in your situation and wanted too make the fella in the next cell pay for his crimes, i would just go and do it . I wouldn't tell someone about his crimes in order for them too do it. Cause thats ratting.

Edited too add, are you only against racism because you are married to a filipina? Would you be ok with racism if you werent married too a Filipina? Im struggling to see why you needed to tell us your wife's nationally.
 
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Elmer Bud

Banned
He ratted out Sacred Seeds, and later on went and got the genes out of the garbage, that the cops left behind, and went to Europe.

And theres plenty of people that know as much, or more than he does, and isn't a rat, or a thief.


G `day Amber trich

You didn`t answer my question about how if he robbed the Hell`s Angels he is able to live in a city with a Hell`s Angels chapter .
Instead you scoured the interwebs for every annecdote that could even slightly support your opinion .

Again weak sauce ...

Thanks for sharin

WB .
 

59lespaul

Active member
Yes ratting on a rat is ratting. A rat is a rat is a rat is a rat.

With you it seems to depend on the crime committed whether it warrants you rat on them or not.

If i was in your situation and wanted too make the fella in the next cell pay for his crimes, i would just go and do it . I wouldn't tell someone about his crimes in order for them too do it. Cause thats ratting.

Edited too add, are you only against racism because you are married to a filipina? Would you be ok with racism if you werent married too a Filipina? Im struggling to see why you needed to tell us your wife's nationally.
Yes you are struggling. Ill give you that.

The guy was a skinhead NAZI. He hated all races, so he would feel compelled to do my wife harm, if he got the chance. Had a few tears tattooed by his eye, like he was bad ass, and had killed people.

I'm glad you think letting everyone know someone is a RAT isnt cool. It is for me. I love exposing rats. Child Molesters. Rapists. This person tried to kill little biracial kids. He was dangerous. So I really don't give a rats ass about you either, and wont respond to someone that LIKES TO PROTECT RATs, Attempted Child Killers, Skinhead NAZIs. I guess you have a soft spot for them. I have nothing for you either.

I had a black girlfriend when I was 23, ( I'm 60 now ) and she died of breast cancer dude. I'm Irish. Many didn't like them either.

I was in the 1st grade 1st year of integration in the USA, and most all the kids I played with on the school ground were black, and many that are still alive, are dear friends.

Before I was in school I played on the playground with black kids, and I was color blind, as I always knew other races, and when I entered 1st grade, many I knew before school, and played with, were now in my room. My mother would have smacked my mouth to the other side of my face if I disparaged another race.

The only other woman that never lied, or cheated on me, other than my current wife was Cathy Williams. My baby that died of cancer, and I will never forget her.

But whatever.

Ill tell on any RAT I know of, with a Bull Horn. Like Paul Revere. The Rats are Coming. The Rats are Coming.

NO stone will be big enough for them to hide under. And Ill get in their face, and tell them I did it.

So the rat that ratted on me, I should have kept my mouth shut about him I guess? Just let it go for the next 15 years??? While I rot in prison ???

NOPE, He told 1st. I told on him second. Also he ended up getting NOTHING. I essentially got 13+ years.
 
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Growstone

Well-known member
G `day Amber trich

You didn`t answer my question about how if he robbed the Hell`s Angels he is able to live in a city with a Hell`s Angels chapter .
Instead you scoured the interwebs for every annecdote that could even slightly support your opinion .

Again weak sauce ...

Thanks for sharin

WB .

Wouldn't know any of this to be true untrue imagination land or reality.. but damn poor dude if it's not true..
to answer your question through educated guessing,just as a study not saying took place.. I'd suggest paid back.. ten fold.. a basic example; you'd offer every elite cut that came your way, seed distribution rights or something to the effect. no good dead if you can make something..
 
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