Grail: The Ultimate Haze Hybrid

I've decided to start a new thread. It's a subject close to the hearts of many growers/breeders. It's something we need to take action on, BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE. We need to put aside our prejudices and ego's in this quest. It's all about the end result.

I'll give you my understanding of how to work with this variety.

As I said before, I got a total of 7 plants from the original seed stock. They were all different. The Original female (the one that I didn't keep a clone of) and Haze male A, may have been siblings, but just as likely not. Yet there was a common Haze like thread among all of them. This tells me that there was likely no pure haze among them. Haze did not improve when put back to itself as I was told and later discovered. People who think that B.C. is the hope for the future ( if it can be resurrected) are likely to be disappointed. A NL5xHzA would be the best mate for it to test this out. Haze males A+C were at best half brothers, but certainly shared a common ancestor, so my guess is that the inbreeding co-efficient to the haze ancestor in Nevil's Haze is at most 37.5%.
So if we want to go back to a Haze hybrid, we are looking for one not directly related to A or C. So don't talk to me about S.S.H. or Jack Herrer or Diesel or Sage (all the same plant). Double up HzC! I'm not saying that excellent plants can't be produced from inbreeding what we have, but we are going for the Ultimate (Grail). If anybody pinches this name I'll be pissed off.
This should start the ball rolling, I'll continue later.
N.

Your ex-partner got the name already -

Arjan's Ultimate Haze

Edit - he used "Ultra" , sorry bout that

There is a strain "Holy Grail" according to Google, too close?

and that is because there is only one grail, no ifs, ands or buts.

but how does one go about this? and excuse me as i readily admit to being in the dark as to the process, but at the same time literate and educated beyond normal reason so i do understand if i read it through, irrespective of the material. peace-biteme

Well, I am full of hopes. The Haze hybrids are the favorites of me and my small circle of growers. The one has been keeping a SSH cut alive since the mid-90's.

The message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 10 characters.

Seeing is believing and it's hard to not want to grow the almost mythical Haze B x Haze C. Like you implied, it appears that we need fresh genetics if we're to find something that will lead us to the "Grail".

So, where haven't Haze genes come from? Mexico, Thailand, Jamaica, and India (please forgive me if I'm missing one or more) all seem to be countries whose landraces have contributed to current Hazes. Surely there must be some place with a landrace that hasn't been found yet or worked enough.

The message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 10 characters.

Did a bunch of posts just disappear?

re;haze grail

Hi Nevil,how are you,by my undrstanding of what you are saying,within the haze ,genetics you obtained,there is a certain part of it,s ancestry that "shines" when it comes through,and that is what you experianced working with the a&c fathers,but there is not a high percentage of this inbred into the haze a/c lines?
So basicly,we need to find seeds containing these original genetics,search through,indentify and select for these traits,and work from there,for the"GRAIL".
I am wondering how one would go about tracking down these seeds? as you were saying,i think some diffrences need to be set aside amongst certain breeders,to make this happen,wich could be done!
anyway,I have a dream,the "Grail"
peace all,sensient

Hey Nev. what male was used in the making of NL5 x Haze that you sold when you worked at Sensi and what is the make up of thier Silver haze is it the same as Jack Herer? Do you still have any. What kind of smells were you getting from the Thai back then and could you describe the smells of the pure hazes and crosses you have made over the years. I have been looking for Leather, Incense, Frankincense, Sandlewood, catpiss, spicy, pepper, . Also do you have any of the NL 5 x Haze A seeds left?

The message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 10 characters.

Do you think it would be worth feminizing your NL 5 x C?, or is it pointless in your mind? Seems like NL 5 x A is what im looking for but anything you release is a grail in my mind its the only hazes worth growing.

A Nev, and Shanti Thai/Haze sounds like The Grail to me. A reworking of Haze worth carrying the name! I think the time is right and there are plenty of us out there with the patience, knowledge, and interest to work with long flowering Tropical Sativas.

Has any one here worked much with the Meao Thai line that Ace Seeds has been using for there Thai Hybrids?

I almost hate to ask but what are your thoughts on Tom Hill Haze? Do you think it is related to your Haze line?

If you need testers let me know where the line starts!

sailerjerry said:

Hey Nev. what male was used in the making of NL5 x Haze that you sold when you worked at Sensi and what is the make up of thier Silver haze is it the same as Jack Herer? Do you still have any. What kind of smells were you getting from the Thai back then and could you describe the smells of the pure hazes and crosses you have made over the years. I have been looking for Leather, Incense, Frankincense, Sandlewood, catpiss, spicy, pepper, . Also do you have any of the NL 5 x Haze A seeds left?

Click to expand...

Damn dude you sound just like bigherb! I had a laugh thinking it was him before I read the name.

Nevil, this project sounds awesome.

I really like how you are thinking of crossing out to the ancestry of haze to find the traits you want. There has been some writing on the internet about Australian sativas like mullumbimby madness, old mother sativa, and the hunter valley strain. Are these the sort of plants that would be worth looking into to find the oldschool thai traits? Kangativa is working with some massive sativas in australia, I think he has a thread on this very forum.


I am also wondering if you have ever tried any of the other haze lines that are still hanging around, such as the oldtimer1 haze offered by Ace, or Tom Hills haze?

The haze A is still alive in seed form?
Thats interesting scour oz instead of thailand for thai.

If this is a dumb question, please forgive my ignorance:

Where does Johnny Blaze fit into this 'grail' family tree?
JB = Ape? Neanderthal? Homosapien? Alien?

Is Haze and Thai a cross that is delving into uncharted territory?
Or is this something that just hasn't been done 'right' enough yet?

Hi Nevil,
Does the plant candidate need to be an unrelated to {A/C} Haze male or can you achieve this threw a Haze Female side ?

I am assuming that NL5C is your female of choice and are looking to click
with an appropriate Thai Male?

lets go to Pataya Beach and search...LOL
Id love to go back.
we may not find it,but we would have a blast looking.


peace
scorpion

I'm looking for something that is not descended from A or C, but still Haze or Haze like.
I want to use a N.H. male.
I got a feeling that I'd be looking in all the wrong places in Pataya.
N.

Nevil do you think that the 5HzC was so good because the NL ALSO has a strong Thai ancestry? I have a 20+ year old NL1 from The Seed Bank that has a very Thai appearance despite its very couchlock indica effect. I was always under the impression that the NL#1 was too stretchy for a pure indica, my experience with the NL#5 is less extensive perhaps it too has a strong Thai background and is less indica then its effect would lead us to believe.?