The Truth

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Guest
Shantibaba - setting the record straight

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Now to clear up the story and myths that go around, due mainly to people in the industry(other seed companies) who are more interested in making money than giving information that is correct. Haze brothers worked on the Haze’s and they did get to Sam and Nevil(owner of THE SEEDBANK…and then Ben Dronkers retailed Nevils strains under the label of SENSI SEEDBANK after Nevil had some jail time in Australia .Nevil was the first Seed Bank or company to exist in Holland so his legendary strains such as Northern lights 5, Ultra skunk , Nl5 Haze, Early pearl , Early girl, Shiva Skunk….and so on became the basis for a lot of offspring seed companies that followed in the 90s.

In fact companies like Dutch passion and Nirvana began by copying Nevils seeds from the F1 seed…but most of them would never say so as they are Dutch business men who see dollars first and not genetics….Sam and Nevil use to work a bit on strains together but when it was revealed that Sam and his crew of Americans in Holland all were part of informants for the DEA in America on a radio program in Holland they split to the UK to do other things. Sam never started or owned a seed company so his claim to all the strains that became famous years ago are not really warranted. He did however do a lot of work on Skunk and shared some seed with Nevil, but as you know for breeding you cannot just take any plant and make a strain like Greenhouse does nowadays. I was working in Australia on varieties like Mullumbimby madness and Thai and Columbia strains of sativas, as well as a lot of original Afghan stock. When I came to Holland in 1990 with my seed stock I linked up with Nevil , and used Arjan’s coffeeshops to introduce strains of cannabis and a little later the seed versions, but we never gave any of the plants to him.Arjan just sold seed produced by Nevil and myself. I co founded the Greenhouse Seed Company with Arjan in 1994(unlike Arjan’s claim it began in 1985 from him alone…he was angry that I sold my half share to him and left in 1998 to Switzerland and to open Mr Nice Seedbank with Nevil and Howard…but I was and still am the sole owner of MNS). In 1995 I came out with the seed version of White widow, then White Rhino 1996 and White Shark 1997…el nino1998 , Himalayan gold and so on. Nevil and I co worked on some Haze strains during the early to mid 90s of which Super Silver Haze and Mango Haze were two strains that eventually came out of this work.The seed was sold under the Greenhouse Seed co label but Nevil held those plants and only sold the seed of these varieties as well as the weed version that won all those awards.So as to help Arjan sell the correct weed we set up our own independent grow rooms and produced those weeds and Arjan bought them all so as no other Dutch shop could compete. In those days the Greenhouse sold the correct weed and seed.But in 1998 when I won all the cups with Nevil(including Shantibaba’s Hash for best nederhash) I was givien a better offer by a Swiss group to set up a medical cannabis farm and distil oil…so I sold my share to Arjan and left. A lot of people were shocked as they thought we were a solid unit but actually Arjan was over the top already with his success and his ego was too much to listen to and considering the Swiss thing had unlimited possibility where as Holland was stuck at being glorified dope dealers….as it still is today. Medical was more my interest.

I took all my plants which made the seeds, especially my fathers and Nevil put all his plants with me so together we had a library of all genetics possible in the cannabis world. Nevil soon sold his part in one of the coffeeshops and had a big problem with Arjan too…but it took another year or two for them to split. Take a look at the High times Cannabis cup after 1998, so 1999 onwards….only while Nevil was there did they win with SSH, but that soon left with Nevil and Arjan even got caught cheating or trying to bribe people to win cup…so was disqualified one year.

A lot of stories exist about the Widow family and a lot of people had access to some of the female versions I left in Holland and soon began claiming to be the creature etc….but the original seed versions that won the first cup in 1995 came from my plants not anyone else’s. Till today we have all the plants in original form. Franco, the Italian working for Arjan now does not even know the original plants as he did not come on the scene till after I left. I have nothing against him at all but he is paid by Arjan andis part of that show so believes what ever is feed to him. The GHSco tried to get things going by buying some seed Nev and I had for sale from a guy in Holland during this time. The guy called me up and told me Arjan bought a few thousand euros of this seed and a year later came out with seed under the well known names he had used previously. The growers could not know this until they grew it out and considering a lot of people never grew it before they did not even know what they were looking at and still do not.So many seed companies use the names like White widow but the genetics are all different. I wrote out the true origins of the plant and everyone copied that so it looks like everyone is selling the same genetics but it is they are all selling a name that sells…nothing more.Ask Franco to show you a photo of the original parents that make the widow…he cannot as he has never seen them.The Ghsco linked up with others like Ingemar who claims to be the widow breeder but he is only a grower and he never came out with a seed version until after I made it in 1995. But all the facts have become mixed and people try to confuse the grower by claiming things that no one else can prove to be correct or wrong…as there are no rules in the seed game since all cannabis is actually not recognized in the official plant world as sub species due to it being drug related. So in actual fact no one owns nothing…even all the trademarked R after the names you see from various seed companies are all bullshit as they are not really able to protect any names as the plants do not officially exist…but that is another story.

In the late 90s I gave plants to Soma, and he began a seed company a year later too…mixing his skunks to my males. This has occurred many times to me just look at the Spanish seed companies and 10 years ago…none existed until I went there in 1995 and gave away 3 kilos of seed to growers via Canamo magazine….but that is another story too.

Now the female seed story saved a lot of seed companies who never really breed seed as you only need a F1 female and chemicals….no need for a male…..so go figure why companies like the Greenhouse or Dinafem etc…set up selling female seed…..the money the demand and not really needing skill with males are all prerequisites to make a female seed. It is therefore obvious to me why Arjan (who is a very marketing person nothing more) and Franco come out every year with a new name plant…they buy an original F1 seed and donk it with silver nitrates and there you have there products…but now adays there are so many doing it it is incredible. Even companies have called me to tell me they feminised a clone of Critical mass in spain and call it critical plus….but say nothing more than thanks. So actually I really do not care any longer about other companies and what they say. We at MNS sell the real versions that won the original awards and made the legends…nowadays it is all confused and everyone is going feminised…except MNS. We exist so people who like to breed will be able to with the original true breed plants that come from selection and natural collection from traveling around the world. As they say, an empty barrel makes a louder noise…and we are full.

ShantiBaba


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That has to be the best read ever. Cant really think of anything else to say... But a big thanks to all those involved keeping MNS real not bunch of fake's like the rest it mean's alot thankyou Shanti.

It's a shame really but that's life if you're a good guy you get no where, But if your an arsehole you go far... just feel's like Shanti does'nt get the credit he deserve.

But i wonder if Shanti's little boy Lil' Shanti i would call him :p will take over and create awesome strain's like he's daddy :p.
 
many props to Shantibaba for his truth on the subject...i know how much he values humility and speaks very little about the way Arjan and other comanies have gone WILD...i really value that he said something about it that is without a doubt from the horses mouth and you can feel the passion from him when u read it...Shanti thanks for letting us all know that without a doubt you hold the true genetics (which quite frankly is why most of us have joined your community and effort)...much love
 
Fantastic read, thanks # and Shanti. I come from an industry/community where my ideas were repeatedly stolen/copied to the point that I don't ever want to return, so this retelling resonates with me quite a bit. Much respect for sticking to your guns and doing your thing through all the bullshit.

ESS
 
Threat erase from ICMag


lol banned again.:rolleyes:


me bad, it was even erased in the MNS forum WTF?.


they must be playing them like a puppet just like htcc.


I would love to see Shanti posting it there a shaking it up a lil.:p


#
 
The Light

Mighty heavy post there, #...;)

Nothing like a little truth to rock an industry...:)

Sewing the seeds of wisdom I see...you are a good man...jay:cool:
 
Jay, when did shanti write this up? also if someone can ask him, can he post it up on the IC forum?

I see no problem with saying the truth?
 
The Prophecy

Jay, when did shanti write this up? also if someone can ask him, can he post it up on the IC forum?

I see no problem with saying the truth?

Really don't know, pepper...didn't know this letter existed...icmag has several thousands of reasons to take it down...prophet destroys profit...jay:)
 
this was actually put in the GHS thread at ICmag too

its funny wen u read ther responses theres nothin intellegent about what they say they jus say Shantis jealous because of GHS winning all the cups but Shanti n Nev wer the wons that dominated all the cups

I know some old timers that tell me how they smoked white widow back in the day n when i tell them the hole story they had no idea who created it they didn't even know about greenhouse n they had grown n smoked widow for a few years in the 90s they said its sad wat can get lost in history from decades of popular people lieing
 
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It's a shame icmag is run by totalitarianism and is filled with so many hateful people because there is a lot of good info there and also some good members.
 
Icmag and

THIS POST WAS AWESOME!!!!!:D:D:D


In a year or two when I have my own legal compassion club I will personally take out full page ads and back covers with posts just like this one! I won't be selling a thing..I give my medicine away.I want disspelling bullshit ads and just putting all the truth out there in big bold print! Telling the ppl just how fast the industry is getting ruined and how we can save it. High Times and the other mags are just the pimps for these companies because their ad revenue all comes from them...BUT if I started paying them like everyone else what could they do? Lets face it some of us make very good money doing what we do best, why not save the trade? I think we can solve this problem ourselves (why are we all bitching when we can do this ourselves?)...if I took out ads..and a few others did it...than who would High Times support? Hype would be stirred..readers would start to ask questions and then instead of dumbass "lowryder" hype we could have "truth and bullshit" hype. I could see it now in a not so distant better future...some guy who doesnt know much saying "no dude I read that the strain is garbage because that seed company is bullshit"....or..."man you got ripped off, did you see that shit in High Times?"......"dude that strain's just a rip off of another rip off"....or best of all..more than i want more than anything and is why I'm willing to spend my own money is to one day here "remember those bullshit femenized seeds?..."what was that lowryder strain everyone laughs about?".

I'm serious I want to shout from the rooftops that the current seed businesses are bullshit and I want the spotlights going on the true heros (kings?lmfao). I also want the spotlight thrown on the greedy sham "breeders" that are purposely ruining the industry for their greed, I want every "breeder" that outsources out of house or worse buys their seeds to be known! I talk everyone's ear off that will listen about the current seed crisis and the benefits of doing business with true growers like Shanti and Simon. I talk with some very experienced people that are more clone heads than seed heads and they have no clue about any of this stuff.

I'm dead serious ppl I want to start advirtising the truths about the seed industry and get people to start giving Arjan the finger when they see him in person for ripping us off so blatantly. I'm suprised he wasn't holding bags with $'s on them for his bobblehead. What a DOUCHE BAG! Whats next a bronze mold of his penis? Plus he even filmed the rip off of the century by fiming him selling his .01 cent piece of plastic "bobble douchehead" for $5,000. Um... is there any bigger way to show that you love ripping ppl off other than to film it and brodcast it to the world? Plus whats with his obession with celebrities? Do you think one single of his celeb "friends" (that he gives shopping bags of weed to take pictures with and talk to) actually grow his knock off weed? Who gives a fuck about celebrities...I HATE celebrities. If you see his GHS page, youtube, personal page, hotel rental pages, any of his recent ads.....THEY ALL MENTION HIS CELEBRITY "FRIENDS". Why? Because the king of douche bags thinks its cool to hang out with d-list rappers and B-list actors. The only real celebrity I saw on his youtube videos was redman and he look annoyed by the camera.

I'm planning on crashing the 2010 cannabis cup with a booth with nice big posters and glossy promo's explaining Arjan's and many other "breeders" lies and shams and the B.S. about femenized seed and "autoflowers" I wonder how many ppl would like free "The Greed House" shirts complete in GHS font! How about buttons that say "GHS Stole ect. ect." or "How much $$$ for a cannabis cup?". I have plenty of money to throw around so lets see how much it will cost me to not get thrown out. I know a few big names in the dam and if anyone else here likes my idea and has any hookups for networking please pm me. As that city is all about who you know.

I was blown away by the quote about soma's geneticscoming from Shanti. I've only personally questioned his orgins, but after this post I'm now sure that his strains are shanti rip off's. Most notebly Kahuna. If Kahuna isnt the biggest Spice rip off than I dont know anything. Look at the pics I attached. I have mixed feelings on soma.......some things I like......somethings make me question his experience and motives. He came out with a book the same year he started is seed business....all of his orginal genetics are gone....now he;s hawking fertilizer's. For one ALL of his promotion shots of his strains are photoshoped. ALL of them have been altered to make the plants more colorful. I'll correct the color of my pics taken with cheap cams to make them look like what they really do,......taking the dullness out or dimming the brightness whatever. But he goes the whole nine yards with color saturation..tinting...color temps. I can do the same thing, I can make any bud picture purple/red/blue. Its very easy. I have NEVER seen a SINGLE Lavender or RockBud grow diary or web pic where a SINGLE plant changed any color than green. His promotional picture of RockBud looks like a gift from Jesus/Xenu/Ala/Budda combined. Pure bullshit is that picture....I'm willing to bet money that bud was all and only green. I'm a sucker for colorful bud I'll grow it just for personal based on color alone. But that RockBud pic has had more touch up's than a current pic of Pamela Anderson. I repeat NEVER have seen anyone in real life or on the internet reproduce his results as far as color goes for his strains. I've known people that have tried it all with his strains tempeture manipulation/fertilizer manipulation/lighting type.......his pics are bullshit. His strains may be powerfull they may taste great they may even grow a magic stalk that you could climb to heaven on......but they ARE NOT colorful buds like in his promo pics. Every person I read on the internet stated they bought the strain because they wanted those colorful red/purple/blue buds. They got crap......and bad germ rates.

Now take MNS or Shanti's work for that matter. I've been growing sense the early 90's, my dad's partner ordered G13xNL#2 (He sadly gave up growing and lost the strain). Besides that the only other seeds I bought were some ElNino from GHS while in amsterdam in 98 i think. Back then High Times was the only place you could see top notch dutch genetics in the states. All that was available were clones in my area of sketchy orgin. You saw tons of seed companies in the magazines but in the states at the time there were no mail orders due to Nevil's expeirance. So when canadian seed companies began selling mail order to the states around 2000 the industry blew up! Now everything you've always dreamed of having was now accessible. But if real, no spin news is as rare as it it is now in this industry.......back in 2000 it was non existent. All hype all bullshit all shady. But then I at least was ignorant of the dutch lies at the time and bought into all types of nonsense. I remember buying The Big Book Of Buds when it first came out. To all the old heads out there can you guys remember what that book was like?? There was nothing like it at all at the time!! There were no books dedicated to marijuana strains. Alot of books back than had conflicting facts on growing techniques let alone reliable strain lineage information. At the time I was ignorant of the success and history with Shantibaba and didn't know that Nevil was still in the game so I never paid attention. At first I thought MNS were another nirvana or dutch passion because they had all of the GHS strains (LITTLE DID I KNOW). The promo shots of the MNS strains in the big book of buds did not impress me nor did their information. So I threw my hard earned money away elsewhere.

Now this next thing is a big thing for me. Look at MNS's promo shots. I love MNS and Shanti but they're promo shots are ho-hum. They really do the strains no justice. The strains dont look that outstanding. THIS IS NOT AN INSULT IN THE LEAST. But thats a huge awesome decision! Because then you dont feel cheated that the plant you just grew looks nothing like the pic on the seed box, which is 80% the case regardless of expeirance with all other breeders (serious seeds being the only notable exception). MNS customers make anyone that tries them without knowing about the seed industry feel like a champion grower because the end results look 10 times better than the promo pics. My point is look online....look at the grow diaries of REAL people growing his strains. They are off the hook!!!! Even people without much skill and questionable setups and low wattage are churning out pure gold!! I saw a pic of some Mango Widow that is on this site that made me almost drop my pipe. It looked fake it was so good, he grew this in a grow tent ppl!! I saw another person do a Nevil's Haze in a tent, omg I wouldnt of even thought of doing it in anything l5'x5x12'. He had great results. Its just amazing. This is what is achievable with MNS. I honestly think and I'm not lying...I think that some of MNS best strains are sold for the cheapest to fool amatures.

This is your average MNS purchase expeirance:
A single pack of Shit at the current exchange rate is $52
A single pack of Spice is $85.
I ordered 2 packs of Shit and I got 39 seeds for $104!
I ordered 1 pack of Spice and got 29 seeds for $85.

Your average current seed company would do this to you:
So lets see here to every other current seed company 39 seeds would equal 4 packages of Shit..(because who cares if one or two are missing)..and 29 seeds would equal 3 packages of Spice!

So for what I got at MNS for $189.....I would been charged $463 by ANYONE else

The first pic is of Soma's Kahuna, the second is MNS Spice
When I first started rearching Spice alarm bells went off because I knew I seen this plant before.....well I had....I had seen the rip off. Look at it same leaf structure/flowering time/taste. So you be the judge the spice picture was grown my MNS's Forums very own Dr.D...awesome job Dr. I'll be doing a spice grow in the next month or so, hope mine turn out like yours!


Shanti your BANG is a 500 S&W Mag
 

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Gertbfrow!
I've always thought I'd grow Kahuna one day, you've just made me a happy man. I'd just noticed on the flow chart the origins of Spice and it really piqued my interest...you just put it over the top:cool:

Thanks.

Thanks also to the OP!

Might just pull the ol' c/p myself;)

Grat
 
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