The Fertilizer of Economic Growth

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The Fertilizer of Economic Growth​

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JessE​


For years now this author has defined bullshit as the fertilizer of economic growth. No more perfect of an illustration can be found than that of the claims of an individual who calls himself Sam Skunkman. Also known as Dave Watson of Hortapharm, aka ‘Magic’ Ed Selezny, a long with a handful of other cute, pirate like alias’s used over the years at various online cannabis forums in which this individual known as the Skunkman has made incredible claims surrounding his contributions to the marijuana industry. For many years these same claims went unquestioned by all but the most academic of cannabis scholars, who were generally trolled off the forums by Skunkman gimmicks and fan boys alike. All of whom had eaten his tall tales up hook, line and sinker. After all, there was little reason to question some of the Skunkmans claims because they were printed in such legitimate publications as High Times magazine and other illicit counter culture magazines and websites alike. Unfortunately a great deal of these claims can not be verified, and all ultimately come full circle right back to the Skunkman himself. In essence, a self created perpetually hyped propaganda machine based on extremely rough figures which fail to measure up to any kind of valid scrutiny when analyzed in their entirety for authenticity or even anything remotely resembling common sense for that matter.

In order for one to begin fitting all of the pieces together, which are all right out there in front of us interestingly enough, one needs to begin with a starting point. Insert a Hollywood worthy flash back, the year, 1984. High Times magazine. An Australian named Nevil Schoenmakers founds Holland’s first mail order cannabis seed company with an advertisement placed in the back of the magazine. Within a couple years the Australian businessman has graduated to much more modest advertisements within the magazine and is even paying taxes on profits he is making from his mail order seed business which literally caters to clients all around the world. In an article written by High Times editor Steven Hager in 2004, Hager writes:

I first visited the Netherlands in 1987 to write an article on the founder of Holland’s first cannabis seed company. Titled “The King of Cannabis,” the article described how an Australian named Nevil established a mail order company in Holland. He lived in a mansion filled with grow rooms that I dubbed “Cannabis Castle.” While working on the article, I met the founders of Cultivators Choice, an almost defunct American cannabis-seed company. They told me about the spectacular California harvest festivals of the ‘70s. That’s where I got the idea of holding a cannabis harvest festival in Amsterdam.

The first annual High Times Cannabis Cup was won by a variety of cannabis known as ‘Skunk #1’ which had been purchased by Nevil Schoenmakers from ‘Cultivators Choice’ along with several other varieties according to this September 2004 Steven Hager article. Nevil went on to dominate the next few High Times Cannabis Cups, along with continuing to fill cannabis seed orders through the mail for customers across the globe. The impact of the breeding, marketing and distribution efforts of Nevil Schoenmakers on the cannabis world can not be stressed enough; he wasn’t labeled the original ‘King of Cannabis’ without justification. His home, dubbed the ‘Cannabis Castle’ was a breeder’s laboratory where Nevil worked on lines of cannabis for years while filling his mail order request from cultivators the world over. Hager later writes of Nevil, “Unfortunately, a few weeks later the DEA launched an operation designed to shut down the Seed Bank and High Times." The operation in question is known as 'Green Merchant,' which with a bit of research at former High Times journalist Peter Gorman’s website we find out was actually conceptualized in 1987 (the same year Steven Hager went to Holland to do an article on Nevil and met Cultivators Choice coincidentally enough) as “the brain child of DEA agent Jim Stewart” according to Peter Gorman. Also according to Gorman, “On Thursday, October 26, 1989, the Drug Enforcement Agency conducted raids on retail stores and warehouses specializing in indoor garden supplies in 46 states, in an attempt to shut down the indoor production of marijuana in this country.” A virtual siege took place around the United States on indoor gardening supply centers around the country, with many business’s and customers alike terrorized by the Drug Enforcement Administrations ‘Operation Green Merchant’, which swept up thousands of people in a very broad stroke of the broom that violated amongst the most sacred of the rights our founding fathers left us in the fourth amendment of the Bill of Rights of the United States Constitution. Later the author also states the main targets of 'Operation Green Merchant' according to his Justice Department sources were Nevil of ‘The Seed Bank’, High Times magazine and Sensimilla Tips, a now defunct cannabis based magazine due to ‘Operation Green Merchant.’ Steven Hager later wrote of Schoenmakers that, “The Dutch government refused to extradite Nevil, who was forced into hiding to prevent a DEA kidnapping” and that he was “eventually nabbed while visiting his family in Australia, jumped bail and disappeared. “

With Nevil forced into hiding, and Sensimilla Tips shut down, the only other major target of the Drug Enforcement Administrations ‘Operation Green Merchant’ was High Times magazine. Nevil would continue to stay underground until this very day, although from all indications he never truly went anywhere after being forced into hiding and has been making significant contributions to the breeding community for many years now behind the scenes, in the shadows. According to Shantibaba of Mr. Nice Seeds, Nevils strains were retailed under Sensi Seeds next and collectively they would later go on to work together at the Green House Seed Company in Holland and dominate the various High Times Cannabis Cups of that era as well before both consolidated their interest in the GHS company with present day owner Arjan and moving on to present day Mr. Nice Seed bank.

Throughout the years Mr. Nice Seeds has built a solid reputation for itself as the only seed bank in the industry to guarantee the germination levels of their genetics with replacements along with the kind of good, old fashioned customer service that you can not even find in today’s legal business market. Let alone an illegal industry such as that of the underground cannabis seed market. In that time the owner and head breeder of the company, Shantibaba, who is responsible for the breeding of some of the world’s most legendary strains of cannabis such as White Widow, White Rhino, Great White Shark etc. has become known as amongst the most respected minds in cannabis in the world today. With access to the kind of green houses dreams are made out of, Shantibaba and crew of Mr. Nice Seeds can be found on YouTube routinely impressing audiences with the incredible size and complexity of professionalism in which his gardens are planted. In reality the folks at Mr. Nice Seeds have no equals within the industry, although the humble and soft nature in which Shantibaba walks would never lead one to believe such notions cross his mind.

One of the flagship varieties of the Mr. Nice Seed camp is the legendary Super Silver Haze, winner of a multitude of cannabis cups and awards to numerous to mention in their entirety. Among the most decorated varieties of all time, this variety was developed by Shantibaba and Nevil Schoenmakers together, and has cemented itself as amongst the finest breeds of cannabis on the planet bar none today. The variety was developed from thousands of specimens, with an ultimate pedigree consisting of a male skunk haze (Skunk Haze C) crossed with a female Northern Lights 5 x Haze (NL5HzC). The haze variety in question ultimately dates back to oldest known form of Haze still used in modern breeding today (1969). Every award winning haze variety to date is related to these very haze lines, held in the Mr. Nice Seed bibliotheca by Shantibaba and company which were originally collected by Nevil himself on his travels inside the United States during the early 1980s. Along with the award winning Super Silver Haze, a sister variety known as Mango Haze was kept waiting in the wings privately for quite sometime into the future before ultimately being released, which itself shares a very similar pedigree with that of the Super Silver Haze in that the same father of Super Silver Haze was used to pollinate a sister plant to the mother of the Super Silver Haze variety. There are several more haze hybrids available in the Mr. Nice Seed camp to the consumer today; however few varieties carry the mystique, allure and legendary description than that of the aptly named Neville’s Haze. A variety whose pedigree consist of a union between two pure haze varieties (originally said to be of Thai and Columbian descent with the possibility of Mexican heritage considered) that both date back to 1969 which was paired with a female Northern Lights #5 x Haze A variety. This particular plant, known as Haze A, is no longer in existence, but was itself the result of two parents who themselves dated back to 1969 as well. This particular line of cannabis is perhaps the ‘holy grail’ in modern cannabis breeding today. The quality of these lines and their importance to the breeding community is unparalleled, with a great deal of today’s modern stock consisting of varieties derived from commercially released versions of these lines which are held privately.

This line is not without controversy, for a former business partner of Nevils’, known as Sam Skunkman (who according to Frank Bovenkerk headed to Holland in 1985 with Ed Rosenthal) offers a different version of events surrounding the acquisition of this variety which includes a different pedigree and vintage among other varying details of his story from that of the original, award winning varieties that are held by the Mr. Nice Seed camp known as Haze today. A subject that has managed to cement itself as an ongoing debate in some circles of the cannabis world, the variety known as ‘Haze’ has an almost magical aura that surrounds nearly every aspect of its existence, from its fuzzy history to its well known and highly desired intoxicant attributes. Among the earliest reports of the variety include interviews from individuals identifying themselves as the ‘Haze Brothers’ in High Times magazines during the early ‘80s. One such interview, from November, 1982 of High Times quotes one of the haze brothers on the original story of how the variety known as haze came to be:

There was this old surfer” Brother Number Two told me. “And the legend goes that he met this hippie on a beach on the central California coast and gave him these very special magical seeds. The hippie planted them, and practically overnight this amazing purple pot plant came up. Well, he smoked some and decided (to) sleep with the plant until it produced enough seeds, then he went out on a kind of Johnny Appleseed trip and, maybe because of the Jimi Hendrix song, the whole seed strain came to be called ‘purple Haze'."

A story straight from the horses mouth, one which also reflects information the Skunkman (who claims to be in direct contact with the Haze brothers themselves to this day) had left out in his previous assessments of the line prior to the article in question resurfacing publicly online some 25 years later. Chiefly the information above indicates the true unknown origins of the line in comparison to the Columbian, Mexican, Thai and South Indian heritage the Skunkman has been quoted as speculating on in the past. According to an August, 2007 High Times article by cultivation Editor Danny Danko, Sam Skunkman worked with Eddie of the Flying Dutchmen (another popular seed bank) years ago at Cultivators Choice. Who we originally learned about from Steven Hager’s article above earlier, a group he had originally met in 1987 while traveling to Holland to do an article on ‘The King of Cannabis’ Nevil Schoenmakers who was later forced into hiding by the Drug Enforcement Administration after being an original target of ‘Operation Green Merchant.’ The Skunkman, also known as Dave Watson, is the CEO of the Dutch R & D company Hortapharm, a company which is said to have “developed unique strains of marijuana” according to the National Academies Press and interestingly enough a company in possession of an import permit from the Drug Enforcement Administration. According to an article written by Clare Wilson of Cannabisnews.com, “GW Pharmaceuticals bought several strains of cannabis with consistent high drug yields from Hortapharm” (a company founded by the very same Dave Watson in question along with his long time partner R. C. Clarke) and with some more research, according to Rutgers University, GW Pharmaceuticals are themselves the beneficiaries of an import license from the Drug Enforcement Administration as well. GW Pharmaceuticals is best known for their medicinal marijuana spray, known as Sativex, which is no doubt developed from strains of cannabis purchased from Sam Skunkman, also known as Dave Watson of Hortapharm, a founding member of Cultivators Choice who sold the strains to Nevil Schoenmakers originally that won the first annual High Times Cannabis Cup in 1988.

The fact the Drug Enforcement Administration is working so closely with the former members of Cultivators Choice and the strains of cannabis that fell under their wing is quite significant in the fact it establishes a clear relationship between Uncle Sam and the medicinal marijuana industry which Sativex is catering too. And its said some of these strains subsequently went on to dominant the cup in the next few years before ‘Operation Green Merchant’ sent Sam Skunkmans former partner, Nevil Schoenmakers, into hiding. While Sam, also known as Dave Watson, according to the National Academies Press, goes on to collaborate with the very same Drug Enforcement Administration that conspired to send his former partner into the shadow realm. The varieties of cannabis used to formulate GW Pharmaceuticals medicinal marijuana product known as Sativex have a clearly established track record with the Drug Enforcement Administration that transparently establishes a connection between Uncle Sam himself and the unrecognized (officially) medicinal potential which lies within the marijuana genome. A track record which can be shown to overlap in Holland during the mid to late ‘80s which is all tied back into ‘Operation Green Merchant’ and Nevil Schoenmakers of The Seed Bank. Perhaps coincidentally, an online hydroponic supply company called ‘Hortapharm’ now advertises freely on the World Wide Web today as the "one stop shop” for all your indoor horticulture needs. With echoes of the indoor hydroponic supply stores targeted in the 46 states of ‘Operation Green Merchant,’ one must take note of the irony that is so brazenly in front of us. The government continues to prosecute growers and users alike with life altering sentences plastered on their records which stigmatize and substantially narrow the quality of life of these unfortunate individuals who are victims of this atrocious war on drugs, all the while clandestinely supporting Hortapharm and GW Pharmaceuticals in their quest to have Sativex approved for regular prescription to patients in need around the world. At stake, millions if not billions of dollars which all ultimately comes down to suppressing the competition in you, the average Joe citizen, all the while holding the key which unlocks the lock to the lucrative pharmaceutical industry and the medical potential (or is that lack there of?) of a plant which is currently prohibited by federal statute.

Interestingly, today one of the former targets of ‘Operation Green Merchant’, High Times magazine, regularly reports information from the Skunkman as fact (The only major target of ‘Operation Green Merchant’ to not ultimately fold). As evident by High Times magazines’ senior cultivation Editor Danny Danko’s August, 2007 article entitled ‘High Times Seed Bank Hall of Fame’ in which Danko is quoted as stating:

It wasn’t until the early 1970’s that the first official seed company, Sam Skunkman’s Sacred Seeds, began to distribute the genetic material in Holland to grow the acclaimed hybrids, such as Haze and Skunk #1, that were winning secret harvest festivals up and down the West Coast. Then came the Seed Bank, started by the legendary breeder Nevil—the first seed company to advertise directly to the public in HIGH TIMES magazine.

Propaganda perpetuated by the Skunkman, Clarke and company alone, published as fact by High Times magazine, without regard for the other side of the coin, which in turn creates a circular echo effect amongst the marijuana community where so called “facts” are regurgitated from one side of the globe to the next although they stand in stark contrast to the known historical record of that which can be validated. The fact remains these “secret harvest festivals” can not be authenticated, and could just as easily amount to smoke and mirrors than pointing toward anything remotely resembling a place most of us refer to as reality. Shantibaba of Mr. Nice Seeds is quoted as stating:

Sam never started or owned a seed company so his claim to all the strains that became famous years ago are not really warranted. He did however do a lot of work on Skunk and shared some seed with Nevil, but as you know for breeding you cannot just take any plant and make a strain like Greenhouse does nowadays.

Strong language from the industry leader himself in which the Skunkmans claims are called directly into question. Interestingly, the Skunkman masquerades as a moderator at perhaps the largest online marijuana community today known as Icmag.com. And in his gallery exist a hand written ‘Cultivators Choice’ catalog that supposedly represents Nov. 1, 1985. This catalog is actually penciled in to lead the observer to believe this is the fourth catalog of its kind and goes on to list a number of strains that are for sale a long with providing a Dutch return address. Carefully etched within hand drawn cannabis seeds on the catalog are the words, ‘Sacred Seeds’, another collective the Skunkman claims governorship over in which the variety Skunk #1 was said to have been developed. The document was uploaded on December 27, 2006 and for all we know could have been drawn earlier that day prior to its upload. Another early catalog appeared in an article written by an author known as “R.”, Aka The Connoisseur, for High Times magazine entitled “Designer Seeds” from February 1981, in which varieties of cannabis are listed in a mock catalog published within the frame work of the article offering such strains as “Skunk #1” and “Original Haze” however no connection with “Sacred Seeds” or “Cultivators Choice” is distinguished within the article itself and in fact the author later goes on to state, “You have no idea whether I invented or embellished that seed catalog, do you?” Certainly not lending one with the impression any kind of validity should be attached to the catalog in question, and an article which gives no clear indications as to what the true intentions or even authenticity of such a document were in the first place other than as a prop to aid in the visual process of the readers. However its documents and claims such as these and more, which are of dubious authenticity to say the least, that stand as the shaky legs in which the chair known as the Skunkmans claims rely upon for support and that which also High Times magazine prints as fact. Long considered the industry leader in popular lure and mainstream culture, High Times magazine is virtually considered the gold standard for up to date information in the counter culture world. However one has to question High Times magazines direction anymore when their publishing credibility is placed under any kind of refined scrutiny. Especially when examined under the context of the Drug Enforcement Administrations ‘Operation Green Merchant’, where High Times magazine themselves were a purported main target of the operation. For the magazine to later align itself with the same forces that once tried to destroy it while under reporting and misrepresenting the facts of the former golden goose of the magazine, Nevil Schoenmakers, there is definitely causation to stop and seriously evaluate what is going on behind the doors of modern day High Times magazine high command. The fact Sam Skunkman operates as a moderator at among the most popular online cannabis websites today with complete and free access to every members incoming IP addresses is also cause for concern, especially considering the owner of the websites own role in the industry as a mail order cannabis seed supplier himself, who is no doubt privy to the same information contained within this article already.


Sources Cited​

Cannabis.net. Breen, Bill. “Dr. Dopes Connection.” 2004. http://cannabis.net/cannabis-seed/index.html

Cannabisnews.com. Wilson, Clare. “Cannabis: Prescribing the Miracle Weed. 2005. http://cannabisnews.com/news/20/thread20194.shtml

CNN. Smith, Aaron. “Canada OKs cannabis oral spray.”2005. CNN. < http://money.cnn.com/2005/04/29/news/international/sativex/index.htm>

Columbia University. Columbia, University of. “Marijuana and Medicine.” Marijuana: Regulation and Market Outlook. 2001. Columbia University. 01 June.2009. http://www.tc.columbia.edu/centers/c...icine%205.html

GW Pharmaceuticals. 2009. 01 June 2009. <http://www.gwpharm.com>

Hemp in Netherlands. “Hennepteelt in Nederland.” Bovenkerk, Frank. and Hogewind, W. 2002. Korte geschiedenis van soft drugs in etapps. Pp 11. University Foundation of Development Cooperation. 01. June 2009 http://docs.google.com/gview?a=v&q=c...Djo9gptKAxSkgw

High Times. “R.””Designer Seeds.” High Times. pp.66. 01 Feb. 1981.

High Times. “R.”Diary of a Connoisseur: The Supreme Tasting. A Two Part Report.” 01 Nov. 1982

High Times. Danko, Danny. “High Times Seed Bank Hall of Fame.”2007. Flying Dutchmen . 01 June 2009. http://hightimes.com/grow/ddanko/3618

Marijuana and Medicine: Assessing the Science Base. Benson, John A. Joy, Janet E. and Watson, Jr. Stanley J. 1999. National Academies Press. July 2009. http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=6376&page=193

Operation Green Merchant. Gorman, Peter. “Inside Operation Green Merchant: Who Got Hit And How they Are Fighting Back.” 1990. High Times. <http://petergormanarchive.com/green_merchant.html>

Rutgers University. Wise, Young. “Cannabis- Based Medicine.” 2003. Rutgers University. 01 June 2009. http://sci.rutgers.edu/forum/showthread.php?t=23638

Sam_Skunkman. Cultivators Choice Catalog. 4.1985. Icmag.com. 2006, Dec. 27. Hand drawn Cultivators Choice Catalog.http://www.icmag.com/ic/gallery/show...89&ppuser=1250

Shantibaba. Enjoint.com. 2009.24 June 2009 Comments on the Skunkman. http://www.enjoint.info/?p=504

Steven Hager. Hager, Steven. “Cannabis Cup History.”2002. 01 June 2009. http://hightimes.com/cancup/hager/842
 
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Nice work Jesse. You mentioned article by Steven Hager about Neville. While ago I found scanned images of this article (don't know where, but it doesn't matter) and for better reading created pdf. I upload it for those who are interest.

Inside Cannabis Castle - The Incredible Story of The Man Who Would be King of Cannabis by Steven Hager High Times 1987:

http://uploaded.to/file/4ju7vh
 
You need permission from the DEA to grow marijuana whether you live in the NL, UK or USA, so if you wanna sell your marijuana for medicinal purposes, not only you need permission from the country where you grow and produce, but also from the DEA itself.They have offices all around the world.Not long ago 14 DEA agents died in a helicopter crash in Afghanistan.

BTW interesting story

seedcatalog_1981.jpg


Namaste :D
 
more like Microsoft to me

briefly met and spoke about U.S. court decisions on medical cannabis with Sam...he was smoking a spoon of dry-sift at the time

from his posts on boards...I get the impression of a shrewd businessman leveraging any business angle he can...seems to be very much into cornering certain competitive advantages...maybe his next offering will be: seeds without any intersex genes

Sam is somewhat like "the Monsanto of Marijuana":D
 
Hi all :)
Thank you for the kind words and support. This particular article is the culmination of research I gathered over a years time period which originally started with a related subject matter. My research along the way formulated the ultimate direction of the article presented, and when at all possible the sources were cited in an effort to make the information presented as clearly defined as possible.
 
yep, plenty of 'fertilizer' here. worthy of the 'national enquirer', even (or 'the sun', for you euros). :o
 
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Hi all,
Below is a quote from Sam_Skunkman recently posted over at Icmag.com which relates to the topic at hand.

Can anyone find any points of contention with the statement below?

As for me being the DEA, lets cut to the bone, where are all my victims? This is so fucking ridiculous, I have been in the public for 25 years and am easy to reach, MARCO could of easily contacted me before his snitch rag outed me, to ask if there was any truth to any of the accusations, but I have been told by people that work with MARCO that he does not care who he hurts as long as it increases his rag TY's circulation. MARCO is a parasite who lives off of creating controversy for his rag.
If you think he is a friend of Cannabis medical patients ask why the fuck did he let his magazine be used by crazy Joe as a forum to attack me, a Cannabis medical patient?
We do not need people like this that help destroy innocent people all the time claiming "Freedom of the Press" means they have zero responsibility to assure the facts of any accusations in his rag.
Also many seed companies here in Holland have complained about his business methods, his knocking off of name brand genetics and selling the all female versions under the original breeders names. He may have well helped a few folks along the way, good for him, but this guy is not a friend of Cannabis or medical Cannabis patients, he is just another guy who has hitched his wagon to Cannabis as he smelled the profits. And he has no sense of what is right and what is wrong, I mean to out a persons real name, repeatedly over and over, put your self in my shoes for one minute and for that one minute assume I am innocent, how do you feel?
My question to you is who will be the next unfortunate you will out and maybe ruin his life, all to sell a few more mags or advertising in the mag?
And to the readers I ask how would you feel if your real name was outed and you were accused of destroying the Cannabis genepool and being in league with the DEA? Would you still love MARCO even if he did not write the article but just published it without trying to confirm if there was any truth in any of the accusations before publishing?
If he would of just checked about me selling all female seeds he should of gotten a little suspicious about the rest of the article, maybe?

-SamS
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=2957825&postcount=92
 
jesse,

what is your end goal with the muckraking you've got going here? i don't really see how this is relevant to the Mr. Nice community, and i'm not really sure that your google-sourced article on the Skunkman has much of a place anywhere (your 'Cultivator's Choice' catalog conspiracy theory is particularly amusing).

i'm sure you or others will go ahead and call me a shill for Sam. and it's true that i've defended him in the past, because the rumor-mongering hasn't-- in my mind-- outweighed the value of what Sam's brought to the table. yes, the online persona of the Skunkman is a grade A pompous ass, but would you or i really act any differently if we had people constantly not just asking but demanding things, answers, genetics, 'secrets to dry sift', etc. from us?

(a bit of perspective-- with apologies to a comedian whose name escapes me: when commercial jet travel was first introduced, it was a marvel. people loved flying. now? we complain about ten minute flight delays. we complain that the food sucks. we complain that we couldn't be on the internet while flying, or that the on-board internet was slow! our modern lives offer us access to so much that we forget how lucky were are to have that access-- or any access-- in the first place. in 1989, if someone gave a grower Skunk #1 seeds, they'd unconditionally rejoice. in 2009, if someone gave the modern IcMag-type grower Skunk #1 seeds, they'd go online and complain about the sweet smell & sativa buzz, badger the breeder as to why it doesn't smell like 'roadkill', and in all likelihood, post negative reviews of the resulting 'boring Dutch skunk'. the modern online grower is spoiled, as as a result, often acts like a spoiled baby in public forums.)

but Sam doesn't really need me to defend him, and that's not what i want to say here anyway. what really sticks in my craw about this all-- and i'm including all the recent hullabaloo about Shanti's 'the Truth' article and 'lifetime ICMag members being banned'-- is the sheer negativity of it all. what do all of these 'old timers' like Sam, Nev and others really owe us anyway? why do we care about their petty squabbles dating back longer than, i suspect, the lifespans of some participating on these forums? why are they required to explain to us the minutiae of events from long ago? like the man in question says, we were not there. go ahead and speculate freely, collate google references & stray quotes from cannabis forums (not exactly the most reputable source for 'truth' anyway), and it's still only historical fiction.

i respect Shanti, Sam, Nev et al greatly for their contributions to cannabis, and their contributions to our access to great cannabis. but they're human, just like me. they make mistakes, they piss people off, they get into arguments.

i have the most respect for those who can leave the bad blood of the past in the past, and build a better future atop it. i'm not really that interested in who pissed off who in 1989, or 1998. last time i checked, that was a long time ago.
 
jesse,

what is your end goal with the muckraking you've got going here? i don't really see how this is relevant to the Mr. Nice community, and i'm not really sure that your google-sourced article on the Skunkman has much of a place anywhere (your 'Cultivator's Choice' catalog conspiracy theory is particularly amusing).

i'm sure you or others will go ahead and call me a shill for Sam. and it's true that i've defended him in the past, because the rumor-mongering hasn't-- in my mind-- outweighed the value of what Sam's brought to the table. yes, the online persona of the Skunkman is a grade A pompous ass, but would you or i really act any differently if we had people constantly not just asking but demanding things, answers, genetics, 'secrets to dry sift', etc. from us?

(a bit of perspective-- with apologies to a comedian whose name escapes me: when commercial jet travel was first introduced, it was a marvel. people loved flying. now? we complain about ten minute flight delays. we complain that the food sucks. we complain that we couldn't be on the internet while flying, or that the on-board internet was slow! our modern lives offer us access to so much that we forget how lucky were are to have that access-- or any access-- in the first place. in 1989, if someone gave a grower Skunk #1 seeds, they'd unconditionally rejoice. in 2009, if someone gave the modern IcMag-type grower Skunk #1 seeds, they'd go online and complain about the sweet smell & sativa buzz, badger the breeder as to why it doesn't smell like 'roadkill', and in all likelihood, post negative reviews of the resulting 'boring Dutch skunk'. the modern online grower is spoiled, as as a result, often acts like a spoiled baby in public forums.)

but Sam doesn't really need me to defend him, and that's not what i want to say here anyway. what really sticks in my craw about this all-- and i'm including all the recent hullabaloo about Shanti's 'the Truth' article and 'lifetime ICMag members being banned'-- is the sheer negativity of it all. what do all of these 'old timers' like Sam, Nev and others really owe us anyway? why do we care about their petty squabbles dating back longer than, i suspect, the lifespans of some participating on these forums? why are they required to explain to us the minutiae of events from long ago? like the man in question says, we were not there. go ahead and speculate freely, collate google references & stray quotes from cannabis forums (not exactly the most reputable source for 'truth' anyway), and it's still only historical fiction.

i respect Shanti, Sam, Nev et al greatly for their contributions to cannabis, and their contributions to our access to great cannabis. but they're human, just like me. they make mistakes, they piss people off, they get into arguments.

i have the most respect for those who can leave the bad blood of the past in the past, and build a better future atop it. i'm not really that interested in who pissed off who in 1989, or 1998. last time i checked, that was a long time ago.

That is my point. It is all high school type "he said, she said" stuff. I was busted in 87, so I know not muchof what went on in 88, 89, but after adjusting tomy new environment, I did again begin to follow what was oing on in the breeding world. Here is my problem; where are these court documents which can prove who did what? Neville became the target of the DEA when the United States changed the Congressional Guidelines in Nov. 1987 to include cannabis seeds as being considered marijuana, prior there was a loophole that simply statedif the seeds were not germinated they were not considered to be a plant, therefore they are not to be considered marijuana. When this changed, they began to build a case against Neville. If anyone was responsible for Nevilles DEA problems, it was High Times for making Neville and his Seed Bank so high profile.

If Sam did snitch, and there were busts and indictments, there wold documentation showing this in Motions of Discovery, transcripts from Grand Jury testimony, and witness lists from the trial itself. so far, and this includes many forums all speaking the same "rumors" yet to show any documented proof of anything. What excuse is there? I had every piece of evidence, a witness list, the full Motion of Discovery(all 296 pgs.), and transcripts from Grand Jury testimony of who said what. some names were marked as CI, but you just have to cross reference the names in the MOD to the CI's in the transcripts and the dates match up to reveal who said what about what; such as: CI tesitfied that on this day of this month said defendant sold blah blah, ok, now we go to the MOD, ah yes, Mr. Doe purchased blah blah on this day at this time during this day...well well, now we have the name of said CI in the Grand Jury testimony. It is really that simple.

I read the post listed here, and then went on to read the entire thread. It seems maybe Marco has a few dark shadows in his closet as well, and he states "he doe snot have advertising on his site or in his publication that had ripped off other breeders; yet he has GHSC all over his forum and publication website. Hmmmmmmmmm
 
Good god I feel old. I remember reading that issue at a friends house in 89. Not realizing how pivotal that issue would be to the industry as a whole. Crazy shit!

sp
 
The past is where the truth lies lol...but like you I sit in wonder thinking back to just how important those catalogues would prove to be. Damn but the 80's seem so long ago.
 
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