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  #1  
Old 02-15-2016, 11:11 AM
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Default Is Shark Shock an IBL ?

Hello guys, i would like to know if shark shock is an inbred line stable enough to make an outcross with another unrelated line please ? thank you

Gizmo
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Old 02-15-2016, 03:47 PM
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Shark Shock has been around for a long time so what you are growing may be F30s. IOW cant get much more inbred. Spanish growers grow from seed to make seed.

YJ
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Old 02-15-2016, 04:07 PM
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Yellow if that's true, it would fly in the face of everything Shanti says about 'f1' seed & him having the same parent stock for years and years and years. I really don't know either way, but I'd be sad if I learned that Shanti handed some dudes in Spain or Washington or Canada or wherever some shark shock beans & told them to keep inbreeding & keep the line going.

I haven't run seed from Shanti that I would consider an IBL. Plants seem to breed true to smell or to flower time, but there is lots of variation plant to plant to plant for things like structure, flavor, high type, resin content, color, etc... Shit was relatively consistent, but even with them, there was variation. Most plants squat & funky but a few tall lemony ones too.
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Old 02-16-2016, 02:12 AM
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I found this a while ago when digging through some old threads. I hope this helps

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Old 02-16-2016, 06:30 AM
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It's YJ Patrick. Believe what u like but most seeds sold thru Amsterdam come from Spain.

Prof that diagram shows inbreeding a strain by dividing into parent phenos ie A and B to F6 and then crossing those back claiming a remake of the original F1.

However who knows how many alleles got lost that didn't make it thru the selection of parents each step along the way. May as well tell the truth that its a recombination of genes from the same ORIGINAL parent plants.

YJ
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Old 02-16-2016, 06:41 AM
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Thanks for stating the obvious Mr YJ.
The guy asked about the breeding of shark shock so thats what we have given them.
It is obviously a useful method as the quality of the strain speaks for itself.
What award winners have u bread YJ?
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Old 02-16-2016, 06:53 AM
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None, nor have I claimed to.

What may be obvious to u and I may need some explaining for others, so how about u ignore the info u already obviously have? Hopefully it helped others understand what that chart signified.

Obviously in a real breeding situation there would be MANY mothers and fathers at each breeding in order to maintain as broad an allele pool as possible. Not just 1 and 1.

U and I know these things but others are just learning.

YJ
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Old 02-16-2016, 10:37 AM
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Sorry if I offended you Yellowjacket. Is it common knowledge now that there are a new set of parents for each round of shark shock produced? That would be the first I've heard of it & would love to see Shanti saying something to that effect if true. Just a group of subcontractors in spain making their own linebreeding parental selection decisions? Sorry, but I would rather believe Shanti when he states that they have & have had the same parental stock (plants not just genes) for years. Meaning the seeds in todays Shark Shock pack come off of the same mother plant (same clone...) & were created with pollen from the same male (same clone) - not inbreeds of prior generations.

I'm sure Shanti contracts out the seed making. I doubt he's contracted out the breeding decisions. Seems easier just to hold & distribute proven parental stock plants. How strains are created & how the retail pack of beans gets produced batch after batch are 2 different things.
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Old 02-16-2016, 10:45 AM
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I would also be surprised if Shanti went through all the trouble of keeping several copies of selected parent plants spread over countries and continents (as he stated before), only to produce seeds the same way that the Spanish do.

Or he is lying but I doubt that because the results are too excellent and too many people vouch for him and his seeds.

It has been my impression to this point that we are dealing with clones of parent stock that has been kept alive and well over decades. Seeds were made using clones of those original parents (as Patrick described) and the original parents were just re-grown from clone if they lost vigor through the years or simply were lost to raids or disasters or whatever (which is why Shanti says he keeps clones of the original parents spread over different countries/continents).

Would really surprise me if this wasn't the case but I might just have understood it wrong.
Also it was my understanding that one of the main differences between MRN seeds and others is exactly this method of keeping parents alive over decades, while other "breeders", for example Serious Seeds, failed to do the same and lost this or that parent of their AK47 and then tried to replace it with a Chronic parent and later an AK47 F2,F3,F4 etc. parent. This resulted in alleles being lost over the years and the current versions of such strains being a shadow of their former self.

Another indicator why I believe this is the method MRN uses is that you supposedly find a certain range of variety in each pack (which is also one of the reasons they sell in packs of 15 or more, which no one else does).
From what I heard all but the oldest strains (like Shit) will have quite a bit of variety in phenotypic expressions. I assumed that strains like Shit have lesser variety because they were quite inbred already at the point of their creation (afaik Shit is a Skunk#1 X Skunk#1 and Skunk#1, I assume, was quite inbred already by the time Shanti backcrossed it to itself and renamed it Shit).

So I would call Shark Shock a "heavily worked" line, due to its age. But I would assume that you still get quite a bit of variety in a pack of 15.

I have a bunch of Mango Haze IBL seeds, which were marked as IBL by Shanti and sold in the christmas hampers packs. I assume there will be less variety in these than in my regular Mango Haze pack. But I expect deviations from the Mango Haze IBL to be rather small, as Mango Haze itself is a well worked line that has a rather small pool of variety already (or so I assume). After all, people growing Mango Haze, want Mango Haze and not Super Silver Haze expressions. If there still was large phenotypic variation in each Mango Haze pack, I would assume people would sometimes wind up with Super Silver Haze instead of Mango Haze and I doubt both strains would have such a stellar reputation in that case.

Last edited by Broseidon; 02-16-2016 at 11:01 AM.
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  #10  
Old 02-16-2016, 02:11 PM
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It's always fun to surmise... And while interesting to a point, I no longer need assurances as the work has already been done. My concern is the consistency in the reproductivity of quality seed going forward. Shark Shock over many years has demonstrated that. So Gizmo, I see no reason why you shouldn't consider making your outcrosses with Shark Shock. Looking forward to hearing of your new creation brah. Aloha M
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