Criteria Shantibaba uses for SELECTING MALE PLANTS

A bit of Shantis words

Hi All

well someone brought this thread to my attention and asked for me to comment...so I will.

In my experiences with the Haze plants, the actual breeding of traits into a plant are not easy.The only way you can attempt this, and it maybe out of the reach of most due to the number of plants required is this. You crack a batch of Haze from a reliable and as pure source as you can find. Keep the best 3 males that exhibit traits you are after in the physical plant. You do the same for 3 females you get from the same batch. You then proceed to pollinate each female to ABC males and crack the seed you make...identify those plants displaying traits you are looking for and pick the male that shows most true in the F1 progeny. This can only be achieved by doing larger samples of seeds...and then you will need to keep a fair few clone back ups until you are sure that certain plants do not shine your way. An example of such breeding was Super Silver Haze and Mango Haze from Mr Nice Seeds. Nev cracked over 1000 seeds and followed them through testing large F1 progeny...Mango female was easy to find for me but the male took a fair while...1.5 years. In that time I killed several hundred F1 seeds to find the male that proved to be most true in its progeny.However now with Nev Haze C, and my MH male I have two plants that combine well and carry certain Haze/sativa traits to all they mate with...but this has now taken quite some years.

So it can occur with luck and it can occur with hard work, but the amount of plants needed to fulfil this type of breeding is much more greater than Indica dominant breeding imo.

(A quick word on "backward" hermaphrodites ? declared males that eventually sport female flowers ? as opposed to the usual female-to-male hermaphrodites. These are semi-rare occurrences, usually sterile but sometimes viable, that I have found at times to be valuable in their genetic contributions. Some of the most resinous and desirable males I have encountered exhibited this trait. This trait almost seems to guarantee against unwanted hermaphroditism in subsequent generations as it also increases the female to male ratio in its progeny.)

(These are the Male's used through out the life of the origional haze and the mystery of it.)

It explains about bad and good haze I belive..

I generally employ a simple process of elimination while selecting males. First, any auto-flowering or very early-declared males are eliminated. (Auto-flowering means that male flowers form regardless of light cycle timing.) This is mainly to insure against hermaphroditism or unwanted flowering traits, but also as a means to insure quality. The very early declared males have a tendency to be less desirable in terms of their contributions to the quality of the finished product. (If you are trying to specifically create an early-flowering strain, then your priorities may be different.)

Next, any male plant that grows too tall or too fast is usually eliminated. The reason for this is that most plants which dedicate so much energy to fiber production generally are best for making fiber. The exception to this rule is when an over-productive plant also exhibits a number of the desirable characteristics mentioned later.

The next criteria for elimination is borrowed from Michael Starks' book, Marijuana Potency, and involves stem structure. Large, hollow main stems are sought while pith-filled stems are eliminated. Backed by years of observation, I agree that hollow stems do seem to facilitate THC production.

Another consideration is the type of floral clusters that develop. Even on males, clusters which are tight, compact and yet very productive are desired over an airy, loose structure. These observations are most notable in the indoor environment. Outdoors, the differences in stem and floral structures are more difficult to discern.

The next and perhaps most important characteristic to examine is that of odor, flavor and trichome development. Again, the females will prove themselves by their finished product, but the males are a bit trickier.

I usually begin with a Sativa female and an Indica male. It has been my observation that the females primarily contribute the type of flavor and aroma and the males contribute the amount of flavor and odor. The "Sativa/Indica" aspects of this formula are mainly apparent in the P1 or very early filial crosses (to about f3). Beyond the f3 generation the apparent "Sativa/Indica" ratio in a given individual is less important than the odor/flavor and trichome development aspects it exhibits. Therefore, one of the main aspects to consider when selecting a male is the depth of its aroma and flavor. (If you are seeking to develop a low-odor indoor strain you might wish to begin with a low-odor Sativa male and an Indica female.)

With the remaining males I usually employ an odor/flavor test. Using males at least two or three weeks into the flowering cycle (and preferably beyond if a separate, isolated space is being used), a sort of "scratch-and-sniff" technique is first employed. With clean, odor-free fingers, gently rub one plant at a time, on the stem where it is well developed and pliable, above the woody part and below the developing top (approximately at the spot where a clone would be cut). The newer leaves at their halfway point of development may also be rubbed and sniffed.

These are the places that the earliest chemical signatures of a developing plant present themselves, and it is our intent to gently disturb these chemicals and inspire an odor/flavor reaction on the fingers and on the plant. By examining these various aromas in this way one may be able to determine certain desirable (and also undesirable) characteristics. After clearing one's palate and refreshing one's fingers, another plant may be tested.

The finalists are best compared for at least a week and at different times of day, to determine who performs best over a period of time.

A few of the "good" aromas which I have found to be associated with both male and female high quality cannabis are: sweet, floral, fruity, berry, wine/brandy, other savory spirits, skunky and spearmint. Some of the "bad" aromas associated with both male and female cannabis are: grassy, chlorophyll (green), celery, parsley, carrots, cinnamon, pepper-mint or wintergreen, gear-oil and gasoline. Some of the aromas that are considered "good" from females but not necessarily from males are: woody, cedar, pine, citrus, tropical fruit, chocolate, vanilla, coffee, garlic and astringent.

Worldwide weed

It is sad that due to the Unfortunate State of Assholes in the world today we herbalists are treated criminally. Sad because given saner times we would be able to produce vast amounts of fine quality herb by virtue of no more than the great outdoors, large numbered populations and trial and error.

Someday perhaps, but in the meantime I have few alternate suggestions. Holland, Denmark, Switzerland, Spain and other parts of Europe are opening up more and more toward herbal tolerance. It is relatively easy in these places to score some high quality product.

It is advisable for the newbie to a scene to buy many small samples of herbals at first until one finds what one likes. Just like in any other travel situation, special surprises await those willing to venture out from the centralized tourist areas (except in Christiania where "one stop shopping" is greatly enjoyed).

I am willing to bet that some of the many herbal "sweet spots" around the globe may once again be producing their specialties. I am eager to verify any rumor of such possibilities. These sweet spots would include many equatorial and near equatorial regions such as Colombia, Highland Mexico, parts of Thailand, Burma and Bhutan to name a few. Places such as Nepal and Jamaica have been ideal for herbal expeditions as well. These are some of the places one could venture in search of educating one's herbal palate and expanding one's experience. n

Constant testing

After selections are made, it is also necessary to remember to test for these qualities across a number of clone generations. Do the desirable characteristics present in a new plant (from seed) persist through the following clone generations of that plant? Does the plant from clones of the original carry the same odor/flavor quality? The same potency? Overall desirability? The answers most definitely need to be "yes" if that individual is to be considered for future breeding.

With much practice and years of experience it becomes apparent to those with a sensitive palate which individuals possess the most desirable characteristics from a given sample.
I suggest that your taste and smell be augmented with the use of an illuminated magnifier, either 30X, 60X or 100X power
will do.

Look at the same aforementioned spot on the stem or developing leaves any time after the second week in the bud cycle and look for the greatest abundance of developing trichomes or secretory hairs (hairs that secrete fluid obvious at 30X and above magnification). More fully developed trichomes with very clear heads are generally the most desirable.

These observations need to be done over a period of time (that is, not just a one-time look) and at different times of the day to determine which individuals perform best. Many various phenomena become apparent to those who are able to pay close attention over a period of time. To that effect I suggest you compile and composite detailed notes on one's observations, and to compare those notes over time. Detailed, comprehensive notes are the hallmark of any successful breeding program.

It is possible to test males by smoking or otherwise consuming them. This practice may be somewhat beneficial to beginners as it does involve a sort of obvious discretion. I suggest using only fresh tips, properly cured and rolled into a joint. Also, make sure that this test smoke is the first smoke one consumes in a day in order to best discern its qualities, or lack thereof.

Some other aspects to consider

When you have a series of males.Without checking for early resin gland production or any other trait you should look for uniformity of the plant.If you take the internode space from the bottom of the plant and follow it up to the top of the plant.What you should find is the plant displays a 1:1.6 ratio.If you see the bottom internode space is 1cm and the next internode space is 1.6cms and so on...then I say this is a better more stable plant to select...as well as takeing other traits into consideration


Originally Posted by Shantibaba
to base it on the internode ratio is one important factor for inbreeding genetic consistency that is already inherent.But by far not the only factor.
These are some of the techniques, selections and considerations that I employ when breeding fine quality cannabis. Famed horticulturist Luther Burbank's quote: "select the best and reject all others" is the single most important aspect to consider.


All the best Sb

peace
BL

................................

[oscar the rotund]

I've seen that post before and wonder if it was Shantibaba that said all of that. Seems someone, you know that unknown someone, said it was a combination of Shantibaba and DJ Short. As for me. If it's got that much resin it's worth keeping. Male hermi or not. If it doesn't work out I can always toss the seeds.

LOL

yeah, I just copied and pasted from a thread at the mag..... hehee..

but thought it belonged here....

peace
BL

[deran]

strange

some of the best highs i found to be in the bad flouvors section

[matthewriot]

I've actually had a bit of experience with the Backwards Hermnaphrodite issue that Shanti and DJ referred to. My first one I found from C99 F1's and used it in a cross that is well known to produce ungoldy amounts of resin and absolutely no hermphrodity in a blueberry hybrid. That was my first test with it since the Blueberry Sativa I was using in the cross was know to shoot male flowers near the end of flower. This was no longer an issue with the resulting progeny in the hybrid line. As of 3 weeks ago I just ran into another backwards hermaphrodite in the form Dutch Passion's Blowfish and I'm super excited to start working with it. These are ultra-rare occurences, that's no joke at all. The plant oreiginally starts to form and pistils come out as if it's a female, usually the structure leads me to believe the plant will be female (ie: no stretchy limbs, generally short internodes, etc..) then out of the blue the pistils die away and balls begin to form. Anyone running into these lemme know <wink> I have a lot more work to do!

[oscar the rotund]

I've seen the same thing. On one plant it did like you said. Sprout female flowers, change to male, then at the end sprout more female. All the others I've seen have only sprouted the females flowers towards the end. Here's another example. These are Blue Streak autos. The one on the left is a male hermi. The one on the right is representative of all the other plants. They were similar in size to the one on the right. The hermi was extremely vigorous.

It did seem to have more resin but not the the super amount that the STA above had. I saved pollen from it. Hoping to run some more Blue Streaks this summer and use it.

[pepper]

I did like the article, but I do have to say it lacked vital information..

It's like if I said select for color, but your staring at red,purple,blue, organe and green. what color are we talking about..

shanti, please help us learn more, or shall I say what you have experienced, way more in detail what you as a breeder for so long look for in detail, the article was to bland and if I can say so openly, really did not do much for me..

I understand if competition is your reason for holding back a vault of knoweldge, but I am sure there must be much much more to your breeding criteria then the vauge words we got in that article.. and I understand an article is limited in wording you ccan write, but Im sure alot of us would liek to know in detail alot more

have you thought about writing a book? your knowledge on running a massive operation is very rare, I would like to see a book that tells us many things, like, detail about fertilizer add back on your huge glass houses.. your knowledge on the topic of cloning, pests, fertilizers, breeding, managing huge rooms, your trials and errors.... ......... not many people run as big of an operation you have, and Im sure there will be a need for a book on managing and running this amount of plants, will be needed very soon..

call me a pessimist, but I only say this as I love learning..

[Bambi]

(Select and Reject) I like this saying'

What ive always liked and still see in these shantibaba quotes is he explains things in simplified terms, all a beguinner needs is simple basic' tips to get them on there way, if the tips are followed then the finished results will speak for themselves when we see them with our own beady eyes,

Colours i dont no alot about as far as males go, I do no the Lime green colored female plants turn out to have stronger highs or sometimes smell, ive tried one lime colored male that was high in odour recently and its really done its job well by the looks of things so far,, (Touch Bud)

Someone mentioned shanti write a book'', not a bad idea come to think of it, writing can become pretty time consuming, ive just got back into my own writing recently, and without any inspiration off any bitchs either,ha'(well jus a lil bit)

A interview type of book maybe, easy peasy japaneesy.

[billybob]

Found this he>she in some Mex bagweed I've been playing with. Not quite sure what to do with him. Hate to mulch something so unusual.