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  #1  
Old 07-14-2012, 04:24 AM
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Default Breeding, Need help!

I am breeding seeds for the first time and need help.
Ok, I pollinated 3 plants with male LA Confidential pollen around day 10 of flower.
I will get right to my problem. One of the plants I pollinated was Juicy Chronic Fruit. That is my biggest most healthy plant with some real nice flowers. I checked a couple seeds about a week ago, and 2 of the 3 were ripe, but on the light side.
Today I pulled off a few seeds and they were looking perfect. My problem is my plant is far from finishing. If I wait much longer I'm pretty certain they will be over ripe (Ya know those blackish seeds from crap bag seed)
I was told that the calyx would split and I would be able to see how ripe they are. This is not the case, the calyx are still closed.
During this grow I have had some heat issues (90's) at the canopy, but around 80 on the medium.
Will heat cause the seeds to ripen too quickly? Should I just pull it now, or after a 5 day flush?

Now the other plants, a Master Kush and another LA Con are doing what I was told they would do. The Cylax are splitting and they are not ripe yet.

I spent a good amount of time and money so I could breed my own strains and make some f2 LA's, so any help would be greatly appreciated.

I know I am a newbie here and never have even thought about any other forums. I figure the real good breeders would be on the best breeders forum Mr Nice/ Shantibaba.
Thanks for any help or suggestions,
Toasty
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  #2  
Old 07-14-2012, 10:14 AM
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hey there toasty22, when i made seeds i just let them mature on the select flowers i pollinated until chop time and all my seeds are good and healthy f3s. I have grown a lot of them out and they were great crosses. So my advice is let them grow as in nature. Hope this helps Peace GW
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  #3  
Old 07-14-2012, 02:44 PM
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Default Over Ripe

Yeah, that's what I had planned, and what was suggested to me. On the other 2 crosses that is what will work.
Just on this one plant, the seeds I checked are nice and brown, with nice tiger stripes but, the plant has at least 3 weeks to go. If I wait until harvest I will end up with all black seeds on that one plant. I ended up harvesting a bud and pilling about 20 seeds off and 2/3rds are finished. BTW, I pollinated the crap outta these plants and should have a whole lotta seeds. This was just for breeding so I don't care too much about any bud I get off of the plants.
Let me ask, if you checked a few seeds and they were perfect, yet your plant still had at least 3 weeks, would you harvest now? wait anyways and see? or do a quick flush and harvest early?
Like I said I did have some heat issues. Can heat issues cause seeds to ripen too early on some strain? The other plants are on schedual though.
Once again the cross is WWxBBxLA
Thanks for the help,
Toasty
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  #4  
Old 07-14-2012, 10:09 PM
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I have never heard of over ripe seeds. Leave them in the plant until you harvest the whole thing. Then wait until the buds are dry to pull the seeds out. Schwag I have seen in the past usually has under ripe white seeds. The tiny black seeds are often prized as being oldschool sativa variety by older members around here. If pollenated early in flowering and you are just going for a seed harvest you can always harvest the whole thing early because it usually takes less than a month for seeds to mature. I would recomend waiting till the plant is dry though before removing seeds.
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Old 07-14-2012, 10:17 PM
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I think you may have humidity issues. Too humid and your seeds will rot on the vine so to speak.

I used to run a cut of Cannabiogen's Destroyer which absolutely ~hateed~ humidity. The first time I made seeds with it half of them rotted the buds form the inside out.

Try a dehumidifier.
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  #6  
Old 07-14-2012, 10:27 PM
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Default Did nor know

I had know idea thoes black seeds were any good back than. Interesting. As for humidity, it is good. between 30-50%.

Ok, the rest, I will let dry in the bud. I did notice they do mature some more after the bud is picked and dried.

So you guys don't think the heat issue I had has anything to do seeds becoming ripe premature?
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  #7  
Old 07-15-2012, 04:41 AM
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Seeds will be ripe about 3 weeks after pollenation. It wont hurt for them to go longer, but they are ripe after about that long. As long as they are not cracking the calyx and falling out they will be fine. I would assume high heat would only slow the maturing process. Also it seems you pollinated pretty early to be honest. Most of my plants wont even have all their hairs showing at 10 days into flowering, so that could be a contribution to why they are maturing early. I dont think your seeds will turn black if left in the plant.
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  #8  
Old 07-15-2012, 05:19 AM
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Default Easy ?'s

Thanks Longhorn, I hope not. Lots of time, work, money and went in to this.
I probably should have done more research, but as I look around the web I still can't find a few answers to some simple question.

Can seeds be "over ripe" and not viable if the plant is harvested on time?
(I did pollinate as soon as I satrted seeing the pistols)

Can a seed be over ripe?

Does seed size matter?
(the other 2 plants are producing huge seeds, and are NOT ready yet.)

OK, here is a bit more difficult question. If I cross a male LA Con with a female LA Con I will have an f2? Why are f2's not as valuable, and shouldn't it just stabalize the plant more?

I can't thank you guys enough.
Peace,
Toasty
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  #9  
Old 07-15-2012, 05:49 PM
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Hi Toasty,

I don't think you can overripen seeds, when they're mature they're mature. I always think it's better to error on the side of later rather then take them too early. It's also better to let them dry in the bud, you get better germination if you wait at least a month after harvesting before trying to germinate, although you can still germinate them as soon as you harvest them. I've pulled seeds right off the plant and germinated, but you get better results if you wait a little.

As far as size, that will vary depending on the variety. You can cross the same male to many different females (strains) and get all kinds of variation in size, markings, etc.

I also have a breeding mom that the calyxes never split so you really can't tell if the seeds are done. I just give them a week or two longer for insurance and harvest a test seed to make sure they're done.

Yes, your LA x LA would make f2 seeds (if your original seed was f1). f2's give you a lot of variation, anywhere form the likes of the LA mother and the LA father and everyhting inbetween. Again this is were selection comes in with breeding. If you make a cross with these plants you will be making f3's, but the parents you use are coming from what you select out of the f2 stock for the qualities you are looking for.

As far as the value of f2's vs f1's, the breeder has selected the best parents in his breeding plan to make the f1 seed. The f1 plant is his goal. f2's will show a lot variety, but a lot say this can be a breeders supermarket...this is where your selection comes in if you want to go to f3. Nevil said nothing is as good as the the f1, but that doesn't mean you can't come up with some good plants.

Breeding is fun but the experience you gain will give you an appreciation for what it really takes to create top notch plants.

Hope this helps.
Bh

Good Luck.
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  #10  
Old 07-15-2012, 06:56 PM
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Default Ahhh

Hey, BH

Thank for explaining that. You answered in geat detail all the questions I needed answers for.

DNA who makes LA Con has gone to mostly fem seeds, but I am glad there is/ was a choice for fem or reg in this strain. I doubt they only use f1 seeds. Wouldn't they have to keep the original mother and father plants to keep cloning and pollinating?

I have gained a wealth of experience and a bounty of seeds and created 2 of my own strains. It's a GREAT feeling!
Fem seeds are good I guess for those who just want to grow female plants, not go over the stupid ass plant count, and for those who are NOT interested in learning a few new things, but I don't think they will ever get the really good genetics doing it this way.

In the fairly short time I have been ordering seeds to grow, I have already seen many companies starting to sell only fem seeds. Say I order a 5 pack for a ridiculous price and 1 don't germ 3 are week and one plant is "growable" I guess I basically just threw away a good amount of cash because none of the plants are worthy of being a mother plant.

I am getting the feeling most seed companies are not feminizing the best plants. Why would they when people will keep spending crazy cash for 5 to 10 seeds at a time.


I hope MNS and the few reputable companies left don't start selling fem seeds only.
I am looking forward to seeing what I can create from a breeder who cares what he sells
Toasty
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